Zumaya out until mid season

[CapitalTigers]

Something that really concerns me is that with this type of injury; arthritis can set in quickly. Joel already went from 2006- 103 mph, last year 98 mph, now a shoulder injury/ surgery? 95/96?

[RFporch]

Originally Posted by Yoda

They're going to need another OFer in 2 years when Sheff retires and Magglio moves to DH.

Couldn't agree more but you are going to want one that has significantly more power potential than Gorkys Hernandez.

[MAROTH4MVP]

Even when Zumaya comes back next year, he will be a question mark. Illitch is just going to have to pay for a closer and a 8th inning guy now. Thats not going to be easy to acquire BOTH on the free agent market.

[CapitalTigers]

*Dreaming*- wouldn't Joba Chamberlain Be nice...

[Kamakzie]

Originally Posted by shabba4detroit

I think keeping Jones becomes imminent. And I think we need another solid free agent signing.

I also think Joel'll never be the same again.

I'd rather go after Mariano Rivera. Jones stinks.

[jadefalcon]

This really sucks. DD needs to go get a closer. Rivera, Cordero, whoever. He's got his work cut out for him.

[MAROTH4MVP]

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

I'd rather go after Mariano Rivera. Jones stinks.

Rivera is also going to be more expensive and the Tigers have multiple needs in the bullpen alone.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

This is a little jumbled, but basically my thinking is that you need a balance of offense and defense in the OF. While 3 CFs would be great defensively, unless they combine to hit 80-90 HRs, you are going to be sacrificing too much offense for defense.

Decent CFs are generally rarer than decent corner OFers. Therefore, we would undoubtedly have been best served to trade one of the 3 CFs at some point, rather than use all three in the same OF in 2010 or beyond. In other words, trading one would have likely gotten us a pretty good yield, and probably more than what getting a replacement LFer or RFer would cost.

Originally Posted by RFporch

Couldn't agree more but you are going to want one that has significantly more power potential than Gorkys Hernandez.

See, I don't think you'd sacrafice offense at all. Offensively I think they'd be a very good OF. Gorkys won't hit a ton of HR's but he'd be a doubles machine if he reaches his potential. Factor in their speed and I think all 3 will be pluses on offense. What Gorkys would lack would be made up for by Granderson and Maybin easily. I think that would have been a fantastic OF.

I would agree that trading one would be best served in obtaining a good, power-hitting corner OFer, but they didn't do that. They just traded one for a 2-year rental at SS. Renteria will be a huge boost the next two years, don't get me wrong, but Gorkys could have been used much more efficiently in the trade market had they let him develop for another year or two.

[Ron Burgandy]

You have to cash some of your chips in when you are making a play for the title. The need to trade Gorkys now is likely much greater than it would have been in a couple years. Stockpiling all your prospects for fear of trading someone who becomes a star is ultimately a losing strategy. The Angels have been doing it for years, only to see a lot of their hot prospects fizzle out. That doesn't mean you always trade any prospect for any veteran; nor is that the approach Dombrowski has adopted.

[Buddahfan]

What a troll.

What is a guy who makes that much money doing moving heavy furniture. He should have hired a few of the day laborers who hang out on street corners in So. CA.

What a troll

[billfer]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

What a troll.

What is a guy who makes that much money doing moving heavy furniture. He should have hired a few of the day laborers who hang out on street corners in So. CA.

What a troll

His dad has a broken leg, the fires were 2 miles from his parents house. He was helping to move boxes out of the attic when a box fell on his shoulder. I'm not sure about the availability of movers in that situation.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

You have to cash some of your chips in when you are making a play for the title. The need to trade Gorkys now is likely much greater than it would have been in a couple years. Stockpiling all your prospects for fear of trading someone who becomes a star is ultimately a losing strategy. The Angels have been doing it for years, only to see a lot of their hot prospects fizzle out. That doesn't mean you always trade any prospect for any veteran; nor is that the approach Dombrowski has adopted.

I don't think it is as black/white as you make it. You need to evaluate each deal on the merits of the players involved and what value they provide to the teams involved. The Renteria deal makes sense for the Tigers if and only if he is a key piece to turn the Tigers from a non-playoff team into a playoff team within the next 2 years. With this news about Zumaya, I think there is less chance that Renteria will be able to do that.

If the Tigers are going to go out and sign Francisco Cordero, Curt Schilling, and Kenny Rogers, I'll stop complaining about the deal. But right now the pitching staff has some serious holes and thus Renteria's value is not maximized.

[Buddahfan]

Originally Posted by billfer

His dad has a broken leg, the fires were 2 miles from his parents house. He was helping to move boxes out of the attic when a box fell on his shoulder. I'm not sure about the availability of movers in that situation.

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire in an emergency? Of course not.

He has a cell phone. Or better yet he could have just gotten in his truck and picked a few up. They are all over the place. In fact the joke in So. CA is that it really is part of Northern Mexico. That ain't far from the truth either.

Just plain stupid

[Kamakzie]

Originally Posted by MAROTH4MVP

Rivera is also going to be more expensive and the Tigers have multiple needs in the bullpen alone.

Well then Illitch needs to open the check book a little wider then. I don't want to see Jones blowing games anymore.

[Ron Burgandy]

Originally Posted by thewave84

I don't think it is as black/white as you make it. You need to evaluate each deal on the merits of the players involved and what value they provide to the teams involved. The Renteria deal makes sense for the Tigers if and only if he is a key piece to turn the Tigers from a non-playoff team into a playoff team within the next 2 years. With this news about Zumaya, I think there is less chance that Renteria will be able to do that.

The loss of Zumaya probably costs us a few wins at most. Sure it may very well make a difference, but it's hardly the breaking point between contender and non-contender status.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire in an emergency? Of course not.

He has a cell phone. Or better yet he could have just gotten in his truck and picked a few up. They are all over the place. In fact the joke in So. CA is that it really is part of Northern Mexico. That ain't far from the truth either.

Just plain stupid

he should hire his own personal servant so he doesn't have to do any lifting. as a matter of fact the tigers as an organization should hire one for all their players. we can't risk any more box-induced injuries.

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by billfer

His dad has a broken leg, the fires were 2 miles from his parents house. He was helping to move boxes out of the attic when a box fell on his shoulder. I'm not sure about the availability of movers in that situation.

Thanks for the info billfer. I think that answers any questions about whether or not he was doing something stupid.

[billfer]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire?

He has a cell phone

I guess I'm not familiar enough with southern california. I would have guessed that a lot of people on the edge of an evacuation zone when the fires were 2 miles away were kind of busy and not really available to do some day labor. And at what point to you expect these guys to stop living like normal people? Seriously. They aren't supposed to pick up anything remotely heavy every, unless it is a barbell with weights on the end?

Just plain stupid

Pot...kettle

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

The loss of Zumaya probably costs us a few wins at most. Sure it may very well make a difference, but it's hardly the breaking point between contender and non-contender status.

Hmm, do you think that a 2006 version of Zumaya would have gotten the Tigers into the playoffs in 2007? I do.

[Kamakzie]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

he should hire his own personal servant so he doesn't have to do any lifting. as a matter of fact the tigers as an organization should hire one for all their players. we can't risk any more box-induced injuries.

He should hire someone to play Guitar Hero for him too.

[billfer]

Here are my notes:

Dombrowski received the information Monday and talked to Joel on Tuesday. The fires were 2 miles away from his parents home and he was getting items from the attic and the box fell on his shoulder. It happened on Sunday and Sunday night Joel’s father called Kevin Rand to let him know what happened.

Dombrowski got the call that it was a serious situation about 10 minutes after the Renteria press conference ended.

There was no rotator cuff damage, but there is no way to know if he’ll make it back until he gets on the mound again. The doctor thinks he can come back, but there is no way to know until he starts throwing hard again.

Dombrowski is going into the year planning on Zumaya not being available. Right now the focus is on getting Todd Jones and Kenny Rogers back. If they can’t retain Jones they will be “aggressive” in pursuing someone to pitch at the back of the bullpen. The Tigers don’t’ view Fernando Rodney as a potential closer at this point.

[Ron Burgandy]

Originally Posted by thewave84

Hmm, do you think that a 2006 version of Zumaya would have gotten the Tigers into the playoffs in 2007? I do.

Maybe. But I don't think we would have been getting the 2006 version of Zoom in 2008, regardless of today's news.

[redshark63]

Thanks for the information, Billfer!

[Buddahfan]

Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle?

he should hire his own personal servant so he doesn't have to do any lifting. as a matter of fact the tigers as an organization should hire one for all their players. we can't risk any more box-induced injuries.

You are being sarcastic.

It has nothing to do with boxes or the Tigers organization. It has to do with common sense. When you are a pitcher you don't go around doing dumb things. Lifting anything heavy when you are a pitcher is dumb especially when you can find people to do it for you for basically nothing.

3 day laborers would cost him $75 max for a half of days work.

[chuckles396]

Originally Posted by billfer

If they can’t retain Jones they will be “aggressive” in pursuing someone to pitch at the back of the bullpen.

Hopefully it will be Rivera or Cordero.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire in an emergency? Of course not.

He has a cell phone. Or better yet he could have just gotten in his truck and picked a few up. They are all over the place. In fact the joke in So. CA is that it really is part of Northern Mexico. That ain't far from the truth either.

Just plain stupid

Way to be completely irrational. I think you've set a new standard here.

Hey, a fire is coming. Let's being a bunch of bums off the street into our home!

[thewave84]

Originally Posted by billfer

Dombrowski got the call that it was a serious situation about 10 minutes after the Renteria press conference ended.

Wow, what incredibly bad timing. One day might have made a huge difference.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

You are being sarcastic.

It has nothing to do with boxes or the Tigers organization. It has to do with common sense. When you are a pitcher you don't go around doing dumb things. Lifting anything heavy when you are a pitcher is dumb especially when you can find people to do it for you for basically nothing.

3 day laborers would cost him $75 max for a half of days work.

You're fooling yourself if you don't think every pitcher doesn't do stuff like this. They all do. It was a freak accident.

And again, 500,000 people left their homes. I don't think laborers were just sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

[Who is the Drizzle?]

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

You are being sarcastic.

It has nothing to do with boxes or the Tigers organization. It has to do with common sense. When you are a pitcher you don't go around doing dumb things. Lifting anything heavy when you are a pitcher is dumb especially when you can find people to do it for you for basically nothing.

3 day laborers would cost him $75 max for a half of days work.

i'm sure there were plenty of day laborers hanging out on zumaya's street corner ignoring their impending doom at the hands of the fire just so they could make a buck. i lived in san diego, if you think this was even possible you live in a different world than i do.

stuff happens man, quit trying to blame everyone for it.

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by thewave84

Hmm, do you think that a 2006 version of Zumaya would have gotten the Tigers into the playoffs in 2007? I do.

Not with problems that their starting staff had.

[JOliver]

If he doesn't want to start: Mike Maroth.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

Originally Posted by CapitalTigers

*Dreaming*- wouldn't Joba Chamberlain Be nice...

...I don't know...why are you asking me?

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by thewave84

Wow, what incredibly bad timing. One day might have made a huge difference.

I doubt it. I don't see a big connection between the Renteria trade and the Zumaya injury. I'm pretty sure the trade would have happened regardless. They needed a shortstop and Renteria was the guy they wanted. Zumaya is a separate situation. He'll need to be replaced.

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by billfer

Dombrowski is going into the year planning on Zumaya not being available. Right now the focus is on getting Todd Jones and Kenny Rogers back. If they can’t retain Jones they will be “aggressive” in pursuing someone to pitch at the back of the bullpen. The Tigers don’t’ view Fernando Rodney as a potential closer at this point.

This does not sound very encouraging. They need to be aggressive in pursuing a reliever regardless of whether they sign Jones.

[DennisDubay]

Originally Posted by MAROTH4MVP

Rivera is also going to be more expensive and the Tigers have multiple needs in the bullpen alone.

Well, everyone on the board was just totally up for signing A-Rod for 300 mill, why not use that money now, for what we really need. We didn't need A-rod in the first place. If Illitch is iching to spend money, there are deals to be made. Be creative.

Originally Posted by Buddahfan

I am sorry for his dad.

He speaks Spanish. There are literally millions of Spanish speaking day workers in So. CA. (I have lived in So. CA for 35 years and that is the way it is here.)

Was he moving the boxes during the fire in an emergency? Of course not.

He has a cell phone. Or better yet he could have just gotten in his truck and picked a few up. They are all over the place. In fact the joke in So. CA is that it really is part of Northern Mexico. That ain't far from the truth either.

Just plain stupid

And moronic post of the week has a winner.

[DennisDubay]

Originally Posted by JOliver

If he doesn't want to start: Mike Maroth.

Uhm.... No.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by tiger337

Not with problems that their starting staff had.

I disagree. They only missed by a few games. How many games did Grilli blow in the late innings? I think having a healthy Zumaya would have saved several games.

[billfer]

Originally Posted by tiger337

This does not sound very encouraging. They need to be aggressive in pursuing a reliever regardless of whether they sign Jones.

My read on it is that if they bring Jones back, then they're looking for a set up type guy. Dombrowski knows Zumaya needs to be replaced. But if they don't get Jones, then it sounds like they'd get into the Cordero/Rivera type business.

I'm thinking that prior to the injury that if they couldn't sign Jones they would have looked for a set up guy. Now they'd go after an established closer (in addition to replacing Zumaya).

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by billfer

My read on it is that if they bring Jones back, then they're looking for a set up type guy. Dombrowski knows Zumaya needs to be replaced. But if they don't get Jones, then it sounds like they'd get into the Cordero/Rivera type business.

I'm thinking that prior to the injury that if they couldn't sign Jones they would have looked for a set up guy. Now they'd go after an established closer (in addition to replacing Zumaya).

That makes sense. It kind of makes me hope they can't resign Jones because I'd like to see them go after Rivera or Cordero. The fact that Jones can only close limits their options. If he were more versatile, they might be able to pursue a big closer without waiting to see whether Jones would sign.

[tiger337]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I disagree. They only missed by a few games. How many games did Grilli blow in the late innings? I think having a healthy Zumaya would have saved several games.

It's possible. 6 games is a lot though.