Life without the Mudhens......

[slim pickens]

Wouldnt it seem weird if the Tigers and Mudhens decide in the future to not agree on a new contract?...

http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=det

Tigers extend agreement with Toledo
Deal with Triple-A affiliate guaranteed through 2010 season
By Jason Beck / MLB.com



DETROIT -- The Toledo Mud Hens will be a Tigers affiliate through at least 2010. The Tigers extended their working agreement with the club for another two years on Tuesday, continuing a partnership that has produced back-to-back International League Governors' Cup championships.
The new agreement runs on top of the two-year agreement that begins this year. The move was more of a formality, officially extending an affiliation that has run since 1987. Only six Triple-A franchises have longer-running associations with their parent clubs. Twenty-seven Tigers players last year had spent some part of their career with the Mud Hens, who set a single-season attendance record last season.

"The Mud Hens represent everything a Major League organization looks for in an affiliate relationship," Tigers director of Minor League operations Dan Lunetta said in a statement, "and this is and has been a perfect fit for each other for many years and hopefully for many more years to come. Toledo is an integral part of our developmental process, and the fan support we have received has certainly played a role in the success of our back-to-back championships."

With the new deal, the Tigers have agreements through 2010 at both Toledo, low Class A West Michigan and short-season Class A Oneonta to go with ownership of their high Class A Lakeland franchise. The one affiliate not under agreement through that point is Double-A Erie, where the current deal runs through 2008. That agreement runs as long as team owner Mandalay Sports Entertainment's current lease in Erie.

[keglerv]

Bring back the Evansville Triplets.

[cruzer1]

The Tigers, afilliated with gambling? Get out of town!

[Mudman]

Originally Posted by slim pickens

Wouldnt it seem weird if the Tigers and Mudhens decide in the future to not agree on a new contract?...

Actually...no. You have to remember that when the Hens returned to Toledo in 1965 they were affiliated with the Yankees for two years. After a spell as Detroits top farm club they were then affiliated for two years with the Phillies, two with the Indians and nine seasons with the Twins (Puckett was a Hen for about 21 games). In some ways, especially during the recent lean years I believe that being so close geographically has harmed more than hurt the team. The convience of being so close made it (too) easy to call up young unproven, unripe and unprepared prospects creating a revolving door between Toledo and Detroit.
Personally, I am a Hens fan-not because of who they are affiliated with-but that they are the closest live baseball to my home base.

[Lbh24]

Originally Posted by Mudman

Actually...no. You have to remember that when the Hens returned to Toledo in 1965 they were affiliated with the Yankees for two years. After a spell as Detroits top farm club they were then affiliated for two years with the Phillies, two with the Indians and nine seasons with the Twins (Puckett was a Hen for about 21 games). In some ways, especially during the recent lean years I believe that being so close geographically has harmed more than hurt the team. The convience of being so close made it (too) easy to call up young unproven, unripe and unprepared prospects creating a revolving door between Toledo and Detroit.
Personally, I am a Hens fan-not because of who they are affiliated with-but that they are the closest live baseball to my home base.

When I was about 11 or 12 I looked at a Puckett card that happened to have his minor league stats and I saw this. For a while, until I learned that the Mud Hens hadn't always been a Tiger-affiliated team, I thought Puckett had spent time in our system. whoops!

[Motor City Sonics]

I would love to see the West Michigan team move to the AA league and then the Tigers get a low A team somewhere in Michigan like Ann Arbor or Saginaw or maybe even Windsor.

[slim pickens]

Originally Posted by Mudman

Actually...no. You have to remember that when the Hens returned to Toledo in 1965 they were affiliated with the Yankees for two years. After a spell as Detroits top farm club they were then affiliated for two years with the Phillies, two with the Indians and nine seasons with the Twins (Puckett was a Hen for about 21 games). In some ways, especially during the recent lean years I believe that being so close geographically has harmed more than hurt the team. The convience of being so close made it (too) easy to call up young unproven, unripe and unprepared prospects creating a revolving door between Toledo and Detroit.
Personally, I am a Hens fan-not because of who they are affiliated with-but that they are the closest live baseball to my home base.

I know that they havent always belonged to the Tigers, what I was saying though, is this is all I have become to know as our affiliate, and would feel weird if they were no longer part of it.

[estrepe1]

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

I would love to see the West Michigan team move to the AA league and then the Tigers get a low A team somewhere in Michigan like Ann Arbor or Saginaw or maybe even Windsor.

They would need a new ballpark. I wouldn't want to subject our AA players to that terrible hitting environment.

Originally Posted by slim pickens

I know that they havent always belonged to the Tigers, what I was saying though, is this is all I have become to know as our affiliate, and would feel weird if they were no longer part of it.

I remember when Jacksonville was our AA affiliate. Erie was a huge upgrade in terms of facilities.

[fyrftrjim]

I remember the Trenton Thunder's 1st year of existance they were the Tigers AA team, that was the first time I met Tony Clark.

[NATE]

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

I would love to see the West Michigan team move to the AA league and then the Tigers get a low A team somewhere in Michigan like Ann Arbor or Saginaw or maybe even Windsor.

BA did a fantasy re-alignment and thought WM and Dayton would be great AA affiliates. The only drawback to WM would be the travel time for many of the teams in the Eastern League.

I think we will terminate the Erie agreement when the lease expires. When you think of it, why should we ssay that Maybin and Miller cannot start out in AA solely becuase of the location of our affiliate. If we still had AA in Jaxville, we wouldn't give it a second thought. If it works out that there is an opening in the Southern league in 2008, the Tigers will likely try to get a new, upcoming boom town to pony up for a new or improved stadium such as Myrtle Beach.

[chasfh]

Originally Posted by Mudman

In some ways, especially during the recent lean years I believe that being so close geographically has harmed more than hurt the team. The convience of being so close made it (too) easy to call up young unproven, unripe and unprepared prospects creating a revolving door between Toledo and Detroit.

I don't buy this theory at all. It would manifest itself with something like, "Hey, let's call up Joe Blow. He's 0-4 with a 6.45 ERA, but he's so darned close that it's really convenient to get him up here fast."

I'd be shocked if geographical proximity played any role in call-up decisions.

[redshark63]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

The Tigers, afilliated with gambling? Get out of town!

Along with the Dodgers (Las Vegas 51's), the Rangers (Frisco Rough Riders), the Reds (Dayton Dragons), the Yankees (Staten Island and Scranton Wilkes-Barre), and the Nationals (Hagerstown Suns) - all with affiliates owned by Mandalay.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...es/262965.html

[Mudman]

Originally Posted by chasfh

I don't buy this theory at all.

I didn't belive in this theory until the Randy Smith era. By the way...thanks a million for your fantasy camp journal. I enjoyed it immensly.

[estrepe1]

Originally Posted by chasfh

I'd be shocked if geographical proximity played any role in call-up decisions.

I think it used to way in the past but now with the ability to fly relatively easy there is less of that happening.

AAA is more about the minor league free agents and the veteran minor leaguers. AA is more about the prospects.

[redshark63]

Proximity has been in play at times.

There have been more than 1 player that has shuttled between WM and Toledo rather than have an injury replacement fly up from Erie or Lakeland.

Anthony Claggett was a example last year.

But, that is minor league shuffling.

[Shorthop]

Originally Posted by NATE

BA did a fantasy re-alignment and thought WM and Dayton would be great AA affiliates. The only drawback to WM would be the travel time for many of the teams in the Eastern League.

I think we will terminate the Erie agreement when the lease expires. When you think of it, why should we ssay that Maybin and Miller cannot start out in AA solely becuase of the location of our affiliate. If we still had AA in Jaxville, we wouldn't give it a second thought. If it works out that there is an opening in the Southern league in 2008, the Tigers will likely try to get a new, upcoming boom town to pony up for a new or improved stadium such as Myrtle Beach.

The new stadium in Jacksonville is a beaut, and with the Dodgers moving everything west, and their contract in Jax up next year, makes the wheels turn. Also, Greenville, SC, which lost the AA Braves to Mississippi, is building a new stadium for (?) a Sally League team. That contract with the Red Sox is up in 2008 also. 2008 will be a huge year for musical chairs in the minors.

[DTroppens]

Because of my childhood when I think of Tiger farm systems the cities Montgomery and Evansville still hit my mind first.

I really like them being in Toledo though. That's a nice place to watch a game. I'm glad they upped the contract.

[NATE]

Originally Posted by Shorthop

The new stadium in Jacksonville is a beaut, and with the Dodgers moving everything west, and their contract in Jax up next year, makes the wheels turn. Also, Greenville, SC, which lost the AA Braves to Mississippi, is building a new stadium for (?) a Sally League team. That contract with the Red Sox is up in 2008 also. 2008 will be a huge year for musical chairs in the minors.

Two great options that would be better than Erie.

Somebody email DD and tell him to get Landutta or whoever it is to start working on it.

[Rocko2]

Originally Posted by keglerv

Bring back the Evansville Triplets.

I was thinking the Nashville Sound, but whatever

[Tigercub33]

Originally Posted by Rocko2

I was thinking the Nashville Sound, but whatever

I think they are the Nashville Sounds, not Sound. I saw a couple of their games when they were with the Reds and really enjoyed it. They had some good fans if I remember.

[estrepe1]

I don't think they are holding either back because of the location. If they think that Miller is ready for Erie he will be in Erie to start the season. When people say that this prospect will be in Lakeland until the weather warms up (at least when I say that) they are giving a time frame for when the prospect will have shown they are ready to move up. Somewhere around 1 or 2 months.

The Tigers have to start in the cold so I doubt that the organization makes decisions solely based on that. At least I hope not.

I do think they will go with a new AA affiliate at some point soon. But I think it has more to do with the facilities and because teams tend to move all over with minor league locations.

[Rocko2]

Originally Posted by Tigercub33

I think they are the Nashville Sounds, not Sound. I saw a couple of their games when they were with the Reds and really enjoyed it. They had some good fans if I remember.

WOW, yes the Sounds, so very sorry for missing the S on the end, but you do realize the name comes from what they consider the "Sound" of Nashville, right? Pluralized or used in the team sense, I most certainly should have used the s, thank you for pointing out my stupidity for all to enjoy.

[Tigercub33]

Originally Posted by Rocko2

WOW, yes the Sounds, so very sorry for missing the S on the end, but you do realize the name comes from what they consider the "Sound" of Nashville, right? Pluralized or used in the team sense, I most certainly should have used the s, thank you for pointing out my stupidity for all to enjoy.

Dude, I wasn't ripping on you - sorry that you took it so literally. I had heard other people say it that way because they THOUGHT that was the name.

Settle down.

[Rocko2]

Settle down? I thought I added some humor to my faux pas. I'll just linger back to my corner.

[Tigercub33]

Originally Posted by Rocko2

Settle down? I thought I added some humor to my faux pas. I'll just linger back to my corner.

Apologies - I was in a LOOOOOOONG meeting most of the day and my humor sensors are not functioning.

[hueytaxi]

AA Tigers back in Florida a possibility? Boggles my mind!

And we do see movement by location a few times a year here between GCL and Lakeland. Always as a backup for a few days.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

I would love to see the West Michigan team move to the AA league and then the Tigers get a low A team somewhere in Michigan like Ann Arbor or Saginaw or maybe even Windsor.

Or Traverse City !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by estrepe1

They would need a new ballpark. I wouldn't want to subject our AA players to that terrible hitting environment.

Could they bring in the fences, or is it more complex than that ??

[Tigercub33]

Originally Posted by hueytaxi

AA Tigers back in Florida a possibility? Boggles my mind!

And we do see movement by location a few times a year here between GCL and Lakeland. Always as a backup for a few days.

I would think that two general areas for the Tigers would be a better option logistically...althought it might have a very slight impact on the fan base (in a negative manner).

[estrepe1]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

Could they bring in the fences, or is it more complex than that ??

Its more complex than that. According to what I have read and heard the backdrop is what the problem is.

I believe they have made upgrades to the facilities but the park still really seems to hurt at least some players at home. Just look over the splits from players like Maybin and Joyce.

I am not meaning it as an insult. It just seems to be an extreme pitchers park.

[Todd]

Originally Posted by DaYooperASBDT

Or Traverse City !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could they bring in the fences, or is it more complex than that ??

Living in Traverse City i would love that but i dont think the population is considered big enough to support a AA team

[potthole]

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Its more complex than that. According to what I have read and heard the backdrop is what the problem is.

I believe they have made upgrades to the facilities but the park still really seems to hurt at least some players at home. Just look over the splits from players like Maybin and Joyce.

I am not meaning it as an insult. It just seems to be an extreme pitchers park.

The backdrop this year was quite a bit better for the hitters than years past. If they keep tinkering with it, I think they'll be able to get a suitable hitting backdrop for batters.

About the only real thing that 5/3 Ballpark would need to change for a AA team is the lights- they'd need to be raised higher.

The one thing that I think would prevent the Tigers from moving their AA team to Grand Rapids is the travel issue. However, when I was at a game in Lansing this past season, I overheard a local newscaster talking, and heard him mention that the Blue Jays are thinking of moving their AA team to Lansing. If that were to happen, the travel situation would be slightly better, with there being two teams this far west. So, who knows, it'll be interesting to see what happens over the next couple of years.

[ToledoTigerFan]

These days, I don't think the Mud Hens would work with any other team as its affiliate except the Tigers. The Hens draw a lot of Michigan fans that live just north of the border and I'm not sure they would do that if they were affiliated with the Indians, Twins, Yankees, or Phillies. The Hens and the Tigers are a perfect match.

[Casimir]

Originally Posted by ToledoTigerFan

These days, I don't think the Mud Hens would work with any other team as its affiliate except the Tigers. The Hens draw a lot of Michigan fans that live just north of the border and I'm not sure they would do that if they were affiliated with the Indians, Twins, Yankees, or Phillies. The Hens and the Tigers are a perfect match.

I agree, especially now that Tiger tickets might become a little more scarce, Michiganders may stroll south rather than north (although Hens sellouts are quite common after school lets out).

As a kid, I never understood why the Hens were affiliated with the Twins. It was easy enough in my mind that Toledo was much closer to Detroit, and that certainly made sense. So while they were the hometown team and I cheered for them, it was kind of a bummer knowing that the baby Twins would soon be the Tigers' opponents.

The Randy Smith era was a bit of a strain on the relationship. The Hens never had good players, and sometimes were strapped with barely enough players. There seem to have been plenty of times where Ps were used as DHs and backup Cs were playing 2B or a corner OF spot just to fill out a lineup, usually because Detroit was shuffling players around and didn't much bother with filling in cracks. (Understood that Toledo's roster is not Detroit's main concern, but I'd have thought they'd be a bit concerned about Ps DHing and the like).

Things seem to have been much better as of late, so its not surprising at all that the extention was made.

[beek_27]

What about in the UP? Need to give them something to do up there.

[ToledoTigerFan]

Originally Posted by Casimir

I agree, especially now that Tiger tickets might become a little more scarce, Michiganders may stroll south rather than north (although Hens sellouts are quite common after school lets out).

As a kid, I never understood why the Hens were affiliated with the Twins. It was easy enough in my mind that Toledo was much closer to Detroit, and that certainly made sense. So while they were the hometown team and I cheered for them, it was kind of a bummer knowing that the baby Twins would soon be the Tigers' opponents.

The Randy Smith era was a bit of a strain on the relationship. The Hens never had good players, and sometimes were strapped with barely enough players. There seem to have been plenty of times where Ps were used as DHs and backup Cs were playing 2B or a corner OF spot just to fill out a lineup, usually because Detroit was shuffling players around and didn't much bother with filling in cracks. (Understood that Toledo's roster is not Detroit's main concern, but I'd have thought they'd be a bit concerned about Ps DHing and the like).

Things seem to have been much better as of late, so its not surprising at all that the extention was made.

Also, when I was a kid, a teams Triple A affiate was a prospects last stop on the way to the Majors. Nowadays, a teams Triple A affiliate is more like a junior varsity with many players that have had ML experience. Double A, in many cases, is where prospects get their initial call-up to the Majors. If they founder, then they hit Triple A(hello, Chris Shelton).