Miller Negotiations Begin

**zachcadillac** · 07-16-2006, 10:57 AM

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Tigers begin talks with Miller

No. 1 pick could cast an eye to the Royals and their negotiations with right-hander Hochevar.

Lynn Henning / The Detroit News

DETROIT -- The Tigers and 2006 first-round draft pick Andrew Miller remain in the early -- very early -- stages of contract talks as the two sides discuss the big-league future for college baseball's 2006 pitcher of the year.

Miller, a 6-foot-6 left-hander who this week received the Roger Clemens Award as NCAA pitcher of the year, helped North Carolina reach the College World Series final only days after he had been chosen by the Tigers as the sixth overall selection in June's amateur draft.

Only two of the draft's first 10 picks are unsigned. Not coincidentally, the two are Miller and right-hander Luke Hochevar, who was taken by Kansas City with the draft's first pick.

Negotiations could hinge on which side moves first. Miller was forecasted to be the draft's first pick, but his rumored asking price scared away Kansas City, if not all of the five teams that picked ahead of Detroit.

Ironically, the Royals exchanged their fear of Miller for a pitcher represented by the notoriously hard-bargaining agent, Scott Boras, who had already spurned the Los Angeles Dodgers and returned his client to this year's draft rather than sign with the Dodgers after they had made Hochevar a first-round pick in 2005.

The Royals, somewhat surprisingly, had no preliminary contract agreement with Boras and Hochevar before they confidently grabbed him with the 2006 draft's first selection.

Miller's slip to No. 6 was dramatic. It was also a gift the Tigers were happy to receive. Miller is considered a potential top-of-the-rotation starter who could ascend to the big leagues as rapidly as 2004 first-round pick Justin Verlander did.

So far, the two sides have at least talked cordially.

"We've had discussions, although I can't tell you how substantive they've been," said John Westhoff, the Tigers vice president and legal counsel, who generally negotiates contracts.

Miller's agent is Mark Rodgers of Palm City, Fla., who "respectfully" declined comment when reached Friday. Rodgers' conversations with the Tigers to date have been with Dave Dombrowski, the Tigers president and general manager, who has known Rodgers for decades.

It is believed that Hochevar and Boras are waiting to see what kind of money will be settled on between the Tigers and Miller, although it is just as likely the Tigers -- and commissioner Bud Selig's office -- are interested in the Hochevar-Kansas City benchmark.

The Tigers and Selig's office are interested in keeping draft salaries within a neighborhood they view as reasonable. They would also appreciate being able to leverage salaries along a descending, "slotted" step-ladder framework that does not appeal to Boras, nor, in the case of Miller, is it likely to sway Rodgers, who believes he represents the best player drafted in 2006.

Miller pitched 110 innings for North Carolina and will not suffer from a summer layoff. The Tigers, however, would like to get him into their system as quickly as possible and place him on a path to further toughen one of the best young pitching staffs in baseball.

**monkeynuts** · 07-16-2006, 11:40 AM

Interesting. Thanks for posting that...

I don't like the fact that both those deals hinge on the other. From all the comments I've read from Miller, it sounds like he wants to sign which gives me some optimisim. Hopefully something will get worked out, but I am a little concerned about those deals relying on each other.

BTW, was Hochevar a senior last year? If he was a junior, both him and Miller could quite possibily not like their deals and both go back to school for a year. If he were a senior, it would seem like he'd really want a deal done and once that got done Miller's deal would be more possible.

**tigersfandm** · 07-16-2006, 11:50 AM

won't see a deal until november i bet.. isn't that when JV signed? did jonah nickerson sign yet?

**zachcadillac** · 07-16-2006, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by monkeynuts

Interesting. Thanks for posting that...

I don't like the fact that both those deals hinge on the other. From all the comments I've read from Miller, it sounds like he wants to sign which gives me some optimisim. Hopefully something will get worked out, but I am a little concerned about those deals relying on each other.

BTW, was Hochevar a senior last year? If he was a junior, both him and Miller could quite possibily not like their deals and both go back to school for a year. If he were a senior, it would seem like he'd really want a deal done and once that got done Miller's deal would be more possible.

Hochevar was a senior in 2006.

**zachcadillac** · 07-16-2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by zachcadillac

Hochevar was a senior in 2006.

Obviously I should leave the draft questions to OU, Micro, and Estrepe. I just read in the Kansas City Star that Hochevar piched in an independent league last year after spurning the Dodgers' contract offer. I assume that still means Hochevar has used the balance of his college eligibility.

Here's that article. Apparently Hochevar plans on holding out awhile again this year.

**BigMM** · 07-16-2006, 01:15 PM

Is it really in the best interest of young pitchers, or any player for that matter, to hold out in different seasons? Wouldn't it be better for the future of Luke Hochevar to go ahead and sign a contract (not worry about an extra 100k, 500k or whatever it is) and just go ahead and start getting professional baseball experience? If he's got a future in the league he'll easily make that up, and make it quicker by getting to league majors at an earlier date.

Let's hope that Andrew Miller jumps aboard rather quickly. I would like that ETA to be ASAP.

**Tramfan** · 07-16-2006, 01:23 PM

I'm highly confident Miller will sign with the good guys and not return to college baseball. The tone in his voice seems to suggest he doesn't want to pitch in college again. However, I could see his agent using independent ball as a bargaining chip, but the draw of getting into the major leagues as soon as possible and joining what is now a winning organization will win out.

**jadefalcon** · 07-16-2006, 06:21 PM

Get it done DD. We need this guy for the stretch run!

**Edman85** · 07-16-2006, 06:27 PM

No need to rush him and have another Kenny Baugh on our hands... Just have him start in Lakeland next Spring and move him along as his performance dictates. He's thrown enough innings this year, no need to ruin his arm just for the sake of immediate gratification.

**OU98** · 07-16-2006, 08:09 PM

Hochevar signing could be imminent, with lots of other tidbits for all to peruse.

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/...tebook_as.aspx

**estrepe1** · 07-16-2006, 08:49 PM

Even if he signs before the end of the minor league season I think they should shut him down.

**DaBishop** · 07-16-2006, 11:32 PM

here's an article from today that's not sounding real promising on Hochevar.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...s/15048522.htm

Ladnier said the two sides “haven’t talked for a while.” He also said the club has not received a formal response from Boras to a revised offer tendered more than two weeks ago.

Attempts to reach Boras were unsuccessful.

Ladnier declined to comment on growing speculation within the industry suggesting the Royals are holding firm to their financial offer but are willing to sign Hochevar to a major-league contract.

Club officials previously confirmed their offer to be in excess of $4 million, which is more than Boras and Hochevar sought last year from the Dodgers. It would also be the highest bonus given this season to a first-round pick with 26 of the 30 selections already under contract.

**monkeytargets37** · 07-16-2006, 11:42 PM

we should sign Miller to a relatively high priced contract pretty soon to drive Hochevars asking price up even further--to further frustrate the Royals :)

**cruzer1** · 07-17-2006, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Even if he signs before the end of the minor league season I think they should shut him down.

Why? He's pretty well rested...UNC has done a great job of not abusing him. He'll need to build up some innings, and most of the innings this year hasn't been tough. If he has any question marks, it would be with stamina, and now is a good time to start. He could also be a candidate for the AFL if he signs later.

**FloridaTigers** · 07-29-2006, 04:26 PM

Any new news?

**OU98** · 07-29-2006, 04:43 PM

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/262073.html

From Ask BA.

Andrew Miller is the third straight first-round draft choice whom the Tigers have had difficulty in signing. Who has more leverage, Miller or Detroit? Will he sign or will this turn into a Luke Hochevar situation?

Steven Silverman
Detroit

I addressed this situation in our latest issue's Draft Dish, which should be posted online in the near future. Tigers fans need not worry. The sixth overall choice, Miller almost certainly will sign with Detroit rather than re-enter the next year's draft, as Hochevar did after the Dodgers made him a supplemental first-round pick in 2005.

The Tigers' previous two first-rounders, Justin Verlander and Cameron Maybin, took longer than expected to sign. But Miller's negotiations are proceeding as expected. As the consensus top talent in 2006, he likely will command the highest bonus in the draft this side of Jeff Samardzija's record $7.25 million, which was the result of Samardzija's NFL potential. Major League Baseball prefers that the biggest bonuses get announced late in the summer, theoretically so they won't affect other negotiations, and Miller wasn't likely to sign before August or September.

"Obviously, going into it, we knew it would probably be a lengthy negotiation," Detroit scouting director David Chadd said. "You never know, but we didn't think he was going to sign the next day."

Neither side really holds leverage over the other in these negotiations. The Tigers don't want to lose their first-round pick, and Miller wants to start his pro career and will be paid handsomely. In the end, expect him to receive a deal similar to that received by Mike Pelfrey. The top pitching prospect in the 2005 draft, Pelfrey fell to the No. 9 pick and got a $3.55 million bonus as part of a four-year, $5.25 million contract with the Mets.

**IdahoBert** · 07-29-2006, 05:40 PM

Thank you OU98!

**djhutch** · 07-29-2006, 05:42 PM

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/askba/262073.html

From Ask BA.

Andrew Miller is the third straight first-round draft choice whom the Tigers have had difficulty in signing.

Tell me about it. I can't wait `til we sign Maybin.

**estrepe1** · 07-29-2006, 05:53 PM

Anyone else tired of the Maybin jokes?

**bulgerke** · 07-29-2006, 06:23 PM

They make me smile everytime

**ajspence** · 07-29-2006, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by bulgerke

They make me smile everytime

Me, too. Lighten up, Francis!

**wolverinefan** · 07-29-2006, 06:51 PM

The Maybin jokes are old.

**billfer** · 07-29-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Anyone else tired of the Maybin jokes?

Yes

**84 Lives!!!** · 07-29-2006, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Anyone else tired of the Maybin jokes?

No.

They only occasionally pop up now. Still gives me a smile. As long as it's used judiciously and not incessantly.

**AlaskanTigersFan** · 07-29-2006, 09:42 PM

OU whats your take on Miller.... is he gonna sign next month or are we lookin for an off-season signing?

**Shinzaki** · 07-29-2006, 09:56 PM

Who's Maybin?

I'm confident we'll sign Miller, but I have no inside knowledge, life experience or special training that would lend the slightest bit of credibility to my opinion.

I could be a columnist for the Detroit News with that resume....

**estrepe1** · 07-29-2006, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskanTigersFan

OU whats your take on Miller.... is he gonna sign next month or are we lookin for an off-season signing?

I don't have any inside knowledge but my read on the situation tells me that he will sign late in August/early September. He might throw in instructs.

**Ron Burgandy** · 07-30-2006, 11:13 AM

Forget Maybin, I'm more interested in this Marvin kid we had in the Futures game...

I mentioned this in Friday game thread, but Liriano reminded me a lot of what I've seen of Miller. Very similar slider and great fastball. Liriano's change-up is better right now, obviously. Do the more scout-inclined here agree with my take?

**84 Lives!!!** · 07-30-2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

... I mentioned this in Friday game thread, but Liriano reminded me a lot of what I've seen of Miller. Very similar slider and great fastball. Liriano's change-up is better right now, obviously. Do the more scout-inclined here agree with my take?

He looks like he has more movement on his fastball.

The thing that scares me about Liriano, if I were a Twin fan, is that he has a delayed and jerky follow through. Great if he's unhittable... but at some point he's going to hang a changeup and a liner's going to scream right back up the middle. And with that follow-through, I think he's exposing himself to an injury from a batted ball. Anyone feel the same way about him being exposed like that?

As for comparison's to Miller, Liriano looks quite a bit more dominant, at this point obviously, but also to a point that I'm not certain Miller can get to be that same way. The movement on Liriano's fastball, and on his slider, great changeup... I think makes him a top Cy Young candidate for many years...

Miller's slider seemed alot more the sweeping kind. Which means he will still be able to dominate hitters it looks like (soon as he can improve his changeup to at least be complimentary and get MLB hitters off balance...). But I think in a different way than Liriano.

**cruzer1** · 07-30-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Forget Maybin, I'm more interested in this Marvin kid we had in the Futures game...

I mentioned this in Friday game thread, but Liriano reminded me a lot of what I've seen of Miller. Very similar slider and great fastball. Liriano's change-up is better right now, obviously. Do the more scout-inclined here agree with my take?

I agree with 84 in that Liriano has much more movement, although Miller has better arm angles, and should be more dominant vs. lefties. Liriano is nasty against both.

**Franchise887** · 07-30-2006, 01:55 PM

Andrew Miller has the chance to be a top of the rotation starter, with an upside roughly comparable to Verlander. One of the main knocks on him many have talked of (here at least) is his lack of a MLB ready change-up to complement his fastball and slider. However, that is quite possibly the most common knock on every college pitcher. Few college pitchers really develope a change as it is simply not as effective a pitch against metal bats as it is against wood. A good change against wood will result in plenty of weakly hit ground balls. Against metal, those weakly hit balls can easily turn into line drive singles, and they often do. This is why many college pitchers will shelve their change up. If the Tigers can teach Miller how to throw a good change, you could see Miller make the same ascent as Verlander made last year. Now, Francisco Liriano is a totally different beast.

Liriano has the chance to be the best pitcher since Pedro Martinez circa 1998-2001, and could easily wrestle away the crown of "Best Pitcher in His Generation" from the struggle Felix Hernandez. Liriano is very similiar in some ways to Pedro. It's not the individual pitches that will beat you, his fastball is hard, but Verlander's is probably harder. His fastball has movement, but not as much as Jonathan Papelbon's. His slider is hard, but not as hard as Lidge's (pre 05' play-offs). His change is brilliant, but not the best in the league. However, like Pedro, Liriano knows how to mix those pitches, mix their speeds, and mix location all with ease. That's the package of a real once in a generation pitcher.

**estrepe1** · 07-30-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

I agree with 84 in that Liriano has much more movement, although Miller has better arm angles, and should be more dominant vs. lefties. Liriano is nasty against both.

I think that Miller if he develops a change will be nasty against both as well.

Miller is a potential top of the rotation pitcher. As franchise mentioned he could become a left handed version of Verlander but with a slider instead of the curve.

Liriano probably has better overall potential. But if Miller develops correctly/stays healthy I think he will be an excellent pitcher to have.

**AlaskanTigersFan** · 07-30-2006, 03:06 PM

in an article that was posted when we drafted Miller, it was said he already has a change. He didn't have to use it much against college hitters from what the article said... I think it was his pitching coach from college that said that....

**estrepe1** · 07-30-2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by AlaskanTigersFan

in an article that was posted when we drafted Miller, it was said he already has a change. He didn't have to use it much against college hitters from what the article said... I think it was his pitching coach from college that said that....

He throws a change but it needs to be refined and developed.

**AlaskanTigersFan** · 07-30-2006, 04:22 PM

thats right. Thanks.

**djhutch** · 07-31-2006, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Anyone else tired of the Maybin jokes?

Originally Posted by billfer

Yes.

Originally Posted by wolverinefan

The Maybin jokes are old.

Jeesh. Next time I'll clear it with the thread police before I try to be funny.

**JonBenke** · 07-31-2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by estrepe1

Anyone else tired of the Maybin jokes?

YES!

Hutch, call the thread police, but a lame/old joke, no matter how you dress her up .. in the end, is still just a lame/old joke.

**DaBishop** · 07-31-2006, 10:00 AM

y'know what I'm really tired of...people complaining about nonsensical things. I'm not sure anyone really cares what any of you are tired of. I'm pretty sure no one cares what I"m tired of. Suck it up, and in the words of my man Arnold "STOP WHINING!!!"

**monkeynuts** · 08-03-2006, 01:00 PM

Luke Hochevar, the first overall pick of the Royals, signed today. With Miller and Hochevar's deals kind of intertwined, this has got to be good news to the Tigers in their efforts to sign Andrew.