Mr. Clutch Tiger

[IZMickey]

Mr. Clutch Tiger through games of 4/12/05
Player: Ops/Successes/Pct.

Guillen: 1/1/1.000
Monroe: 3/2/.666
White: 5/3/.600
Inge: 5/3/.600
Young: 7/4/.571
Infante: 6/3/.500
Higginson: 4/1/.250
Ordonez: 4/1/.250
Pena: 5/1/.200
Rodriguez: 4/0/.000
Smith: 1/0/.000
Logan: 1/0/.000
Thames: 1/0/.000
Wilson: -/-
Martinez: -/-

DETROIT: 47 ops/19 successes/.404 pct.
CLEVELAND: 54 ops/20 successes/.370 pct.
MINNESOTA: 44 ops/15 successes/.340 pct.
WHITE SOX: 43 ops/13 successes/.302 pct.
KANSAS CITY: 49 ops/14 successes/.285 pct.

To qualify for success in a clutch opportunity, there must be at least one runner on base with two outs, unless the game is in the 9th or extra innings. The batter must keep the inning alive, i.e., a clutch performance is any result that is not an out. Any inning ending at bat with runners on base will be considered a lost opportunity.

Following are some additional running stats which may (or may not!) be of interest:

Team/overall record/1-run record/bullpen IP/bullpen ERA

Chi/5-2/3-0/16/7.31
Minn/4-3/1-0/17.1/1.05
Det/3-4/0-3/21/3.86
Clev/3-4/2-3/24.2/2.60
KC/3-4/0-0/22.2/6.89

[IZMickey]

My choice for Mr. Clutch Tiger is Bobby Higginson. I said he deserved to be on the team and I'll stand by him.

I went back through play-by-plays for the first four games, and here are the standings thus far for hitting in the clutch (two out base hits that advance or score a runner):

Inge - 5 points*
Young - 3 points*
Monroe - 2 points
Higginson - 2 points
Infante - 2 points
White - 1 point
Pena - 1 point

Includes a fielder's choice (Inge) and HBP (Young), both with two outs. I would seek a ruling if these should be allowed.

[cruzer1]

We've been arguing about clutch hits on this board for years. Evidently, they don't exist. Would be much more fun if they did.

[ian_a]

Clutch "hits" to me seem:

(8th? or) 9th inning (and later?), getting on-base. Hit or walk.

Hitting (or walking?) with 2 outs.

Hitting with runners in scoring position.

I'll bet Inge and Pudge are most clutch.

[IdahoBert]

sabermetrics take on clutch hitting

I haven't read this yet but some may find it relevant.

[SpartanValor]

you should include "opportunities" too.


like "5 clutch points out of a possible 10". or even "clutch points percentage". That sounds nifty....


I dont know, maybe thats dumb and too difficult to calculate, but how do I know that Pudge hasnt had the opportunity to aquire "5 clutch points"?


just an idea...

[tiger337]

Originally posted by cruzer1
We've been arguing about clutch hits on this board for years. Evidently, they don't exist. Would be much more fun if they did.

No, clutch hits do exist. Clutch hitters don't exist.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
sabermetrics take on clutch hitting

I haven't read this yet but some may find it relevant.

Very interesting article Bert. Thanks.

This is the first study I've seen which has indicated that clutch hitting may be an important skill. I'll have to go back later and read his methods more carefully.

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by tiger337
Very interesting article Bert. Thanks.

This is the first study I've seen which has indicated that clutch hitting may be an important skill. I'll have to go back later and read his methods more carefully.

Well, I guess I'd better read it then. Your endorsment intrigues me.

[DaBishop]

no offense, but Sabermetrics discussions makes Trekkies look cool.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by DaBishop
no offense, but Sabermetrics discussions makes Trekkies look cool.

A statement like that might be offensive if the person who made it was actually cool.

[Hongbit]

Originally posted by DaBishop
no offense, but Sabermetrics discussions makes Trekkies look cool.

best.post.ever

Can I use this as my new sig line.

[Al de Blanc]

To me, any way you get on base in the ninth or beyond in a game with a two run or less difference is clutch regardless of the number of outs. You may even be able to twist my arm on the same argument for the eighth inning as well.
I really thought Pena was going to "come through in the clutch" last night in the late innings, especially when he came through too quickly on the long foul ball.

[tiger_fan_for_life]

Originally posted by DaBishop
no offense, but Sabermetrics discussions makes Trekkies look cool.

[Farraday]

Originally posted by Hongbit
best.post.ever

Can I use this as my new sig line.

And I always thought you were a saber!




Just kidding

[84 Lives!!!]

I think you might need to use both... I don't know if the percentage can be calc'd... but I'll take a stab at it maybe a bit later (too drugged with Sudafed right now to make the attempt).

But I agree, "clutch" hits and "clutch %" rankings taken together should be a pretty good indicator of who's the best on the Tigers.

For instance - you picked Higgy IZ? - he might get 30 clutch AB's this year as a PH & part-time starter. Maybe only 10-20. And Maggs might get 80-100. No way Higgy gets more clutch hits than Maggs, but maybe his % gets as high.

I would make another comment on that.... but I'm trying to remember your base rule here IZ, only positive comments... so I'll try to leave it at that...

[Charles Liston]

Originally posted by Hongbit
best.post.ever

Can I use this as my new sig line.

I've always thought of you as a clutch poster, the sort of guy who can come into an indifferent thread, late in the thread and turn it around. But I don't have the stats to back that up, you know like number of posts relatively late in a "crappy thread" (a weak stat, sort of like "holds"), threads turned around as measured by responses especially all-caps responses, as a percentage of total threads divided by the square root of SFA. It's just a gut feeling I have.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by Charles Liston
I've always thought of you as a clutch poster, the sort of guy who can come into an indifferent thread, late in the thread and turn it around. But I don't have the stats to back that up, you know like number of posts relatively late in a "crappy thread" (a weak stat, sort of like "holds"), threads turned around as measured by responses especially all-caps responses, as a percentage of total threads divided by the square root of SFA. It's just a gut feeling I have.

I agree he's a good clutch poster. He's a good role threader, a situational poster. He loses his effectiveness if he posts in too many threads but if used correctly, he can be a valuable member of any forum.

[One Man's Fool]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
sabermetrics take on clutch hitting

I haven't read this yet but some may find it relevant.

I started reading the sabermetrics article and . . .

djidsfakjld888888888888888888888888

Oh, sorry, fell asleep on the keyboard again.

1MF

[djhutch]

I'm a lot more ticked @ Urbina for giving up the HR than I was @ Higgy for not bailing him out.

[Oblong]

Why is a hit in the 7th, 8th, or 9th more clutch than one in the first few innings? If it drives in a run it drives in a run. They don't count more at the end.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and everybody was sharing the jug of water, whichever kid drank the last gulp got blamed for taking it all.

[ToledoTigerFan]

The best Tiger clutch hitter I've seen was Rusty Staub. Second best was Tram and third best was Lou. Runner-ups would be Champ Summers and Gibby and Tettleton wasn't far behind those two.

[DaBishop]

Originally posted by Hongbit
best.post.ever

Can I use this as my new sig line.

I'd be honored...ha

[tiger337]

Originally posted by Oblong
Why is a hit in the 7th, 8th, or 9th more clutch than one in the first few innings? If it drives in a run it drives in a run. They don't count more at the end.

Reminds me of when I was a kid and everybody was sharing the jug of water, whichever kid drank the last gulp got blamed for taking it all.

Only real men knock in runs late in the game. Runs produced in the first few innings are sissy runs.

[IZMickey]

Originally posted by 84 Lives!!!
I think you might need to use both... I don't know if the percentage can be calc'd... but I'll take a stab at it maybe a bit later (too drugged with Sudafed right now to make the attempt).

But I agree, "clutch" hits and "clutch %" rankings taken together should be a pretty good indicator of who's the best on the Tigers.

For instance - you picked Higgy IZ? - he might get 30 clutch AB's this year as a PH & part-time starter. Maybe only 10-20. And Maggs might get 80-100. No way Higgy gets more clutch hits than Maggs, but maybe his % gets as high.

I would make another comment on that.... but I'm trying to remember your base rule here IZ, only positive comments... so I'll try to leave it at that...

This is a great point, but makes the administration of the stats that much more time consuming However, because play-by-plays are available, its possible. I do like the idea of successes on a percentage of ops basis. I also agree with (Oblong?) that a clutch hit can occur at any time in a game. It is often a hit in a "clutch" situation in the early innings that can spark the rest of the lineup.

[OldTimey]

I see a lot of people who say sabermetrics are for geeks and boring, but I have yet to see any of those people use reason or logic as to their reasoning.

[IZMickey]

April 29, 2004, from the Daily News in Longview, Washington.

In the third inning of a tightly contested non-league contest between the Lower Columbia College Red Devils and Skagit Valley, LCC's Kody Cole smacked a base hit to left field to open the inning, and scampered to third base when Ryan Krauser legged out an infield base hit and the Skagit first baseman dropped the late throw from the third baseman. Krauser stole second base, but the Devils' second and third hitters -- Josh McBride and Jacob Ross -- each hit foul ball pop outs that caused Smith's blood to boil. Fortunately for the Red Devils -- and Smith -- Justin Coffman looped a 2-2 pitch into left field that plated Cole and Krauser. Red Devils Coach Kelly Smith had this to say about Coffman’s effort. "We could have had a demoralizing inning with runners in scoring position and have our second and third hitters pop out," Smith said. "Justin came through with the big hit which was really nice to see. You get a lot of respect from your teammates when you clutch up and pick up a teammate."

[IZMickey]

Mr. Clutch Tiger through games of 4/09/05
Clutch situation: Ops/Successes

Inge 5/3
Rodriguez 1/0
Wilson -/-
Guillen -/-
Infante 5/2
Martinez -/-
Pena 2/1
Smith 1/0
Higginson 4/1
Logan 1/0
Monroe 3/2
Thames 1/0
White 2/1
Young 6/3
Ordonez 4/1

[holygoat]

Originally posted by OldTimey
I see a lot of people who say sabermetrics are for geeks and boring, but I have yet to see any of those people use reason or logic as to their reasoning.

Yeah, but the Trekkie line was pretty funny, though.

[tiger337]

Discussions about team chemistry make the Easter bunny seem real.

[estrepe1]

Originally posted by OldTimey
I see a lot of people who say sabermetrics are for geeks and boring, but I have yet to see any of those people use reason or logic as to their reasoning.

Didn't you know that anyone that understands math is a geek.....

[Oblong]

Originally posted by OldTimey
I see a lot of people who say sabermetrics are for geeks and boring, but I have yet to see any of those people use reason or logic as to their reasoning.

U R SO LaME! Higgy RULeS

[holygoat]

Originally posted by Oblong
Why is a hit in the 7th, 8th, or 9th more clutch than one in the first few innings? If it drives in a run it drives in a run. They don't count more at the end.

I think it has to do with the perceived amount of time remaining in the game in the first few innings as opposed to the last three. If you fail in the 1st inning you can comfort yourself with the fact that there are 8 innings left to produce. When people say "clutch" they're probably saying "mentally tough". So when there are fewer future ABs available to a batter it may bring more mental pressure upon him to perform with the one or two he has left. I think there is something to this, unless someone can convince me that a 1st or 2nd inning AB with no score is less stressful than an 8th or 9th inning AB with your team down by 2. It's not the be-all-end-all but I think it plays a factor. It's one of those unquantifiable things that makes sports fun, IMO

[tiger337]

Originally posted by holygoat
I think it has to do with the perceived amount of time remaining in the game in the first few innings as opposed to the last three. If you fail in the 1st inning you can comfort yourself with the fact that there are 8 innings left to produce. When people say "clutch" they're probably saying "mentally tough". So when there are fewer future ABs available to a batter it may bring more mental pressure upon him to perform with the one or two he has left. I think there is something to this, unless someone can convince me that a 1st or 2nd inning AB with no score is less stressful than an 8th or 9th inning AB with your team down by 2. It's not the be-all-end-all but I think it plays a factor. It's one of those unquantifiable things that makes sports fun, IMO

I think all Major League at bats are pressure situations.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by tiger337
I think all Major League at bats are pressure situations.

Do you think that all MLB at bats are of equal pressure?

[tiger337]

Originally posted by holygoat
Do you think that all MLB at bats are of equal pressure?

Probably not but I do think there is a lot of pressure for most hitters every time they come to the plate. If the pressure goes up late in a close game, it might have as much to do with a quality reliever being in the game as mental toughness.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by tiger337
Probably not but I do think there is a lot of pressure for most hitters every time they come to the plate. If the pressure goes up late in a close game, it might have as much to do with a quality reliever being in the game as mental toughness.

You don't think that the pressure of having fewer opportunities to make up a deficit adds to such late inning at bats at all?

[Oblong]

but if they had done the job earlier then it wouldn't be as pressurized late in the game. It's a self inflicted drama. Like when I'm up agaisnt a deadline at work because I spent a lot of time on this MB. It's a good way to fool the bosses to think I came through in the clutch to get it finished in time but if I didn't screw off earlier then there wouldnt' be any pressure.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by holygoat
You don't think that the pressure of having fewer opportunities to make up a deficit adds to such late inning at bats at all?

It might. It also might be that added pressure may not effect performance that much. I'm not sure.

I just don't know why it's more important to hit in these situations than it is to hit earlier in the game. As oblong pointed out, all runs count the same regardless of when they were scored. I want a hitter to hit in all situations. If hitters only hit in clutch situations, there would be no clutch situations.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by tiger337
It might. It also might be that added pressure may not effect performance that much. I'm not sure.

I just don't know why it's more important to hit in these situations than it is to hit earlier in the game. As oblong pointed out, all runs count the same regardless of when they were scored. I want a hitter to hit in all situations. If hitters only hit in clutch situations, there would be no clutch situations.

Yes, they all count the same, but the pressure of performing when time is limited and the game is on the line is greater, IMO. I come to this conclussion based on my own experience playing pick-up sports, pool or darts. It's human nature for anyone with an ounce of competitive spirit.

Again, I'm not arguing that how a plyer performs in close, late inning games should have any more bearing on their perceived value than their overall production (except for closers, of course), mainly because I think that the best players will generally perform best "in the clutch". However, to completely dismiss the idea that some players may perform better under high-pressure situations is being a bit stubborn, I think.