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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    Last year Porcello was moved to the BP and hardly pitched. I recall only garbage time.
    I think if the game is close late, most managers are going to trust relievers who are accustomed to pitching in their roles.

    I'd guess the 5th starter only would contribute significant innings in a game tied late because you may need 4 or 5 innings out of the pitcher in an extra inning affair, or if the starter gets knocked out due to injury or ineffectiveness but the game is close.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I think the solution is to buy a MLB team and run it right.

    I bet I have about $5.28 under the seat cushions and in my kid's piggy bank.
    If I win the lotto, which I never play, I will use that capital to make even more money, eventually having billions.

    I will invest much of that billions into fixing the failed upcoming illitch development and public transit. I will provide free utilities to all residents within the district, and free water to the outlying neighborhoods. I will also triple the police force.

    I will then buy the tigers, and rest assured that I will shell out to keep victor Martinez jr in a tigers uniform for his entire career.

    More importantly, I will give manager Don Kelly all of the support he needs to implement lineup optimization (batting victor jr second) and an efficiently run bullpen.

    Also, the Robbie Ray statue will be erected without delay after his retirement. It's the right thing to do for the five time cy young winner and six time MVP.
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown Bombers View Post
    He did pitch the 9th of game two when it was tied. Smyly has experience coming out of the bullpen so I would think he would get more opportunities than Porcello.
    Yeah but he came in bases loaded nobody out in the bottom of the 9th... at that point the game was considered a loss in my view.
    .

  4. #844
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    We decided if we win the lottery and get FU money we're buying the entire box section 216 and converting it into our own area. Couches, TVs, hammocks, mini bars, with waitresses. And curtains to block out the riff raff.
    .

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblong View Post
    Yeah but he came in bases loaded nobody out in the bottom of the 9th... at that point the game was considered a loss in my view.
    The bases were empty and the game was tied. You are talking about game two in Boston right?
    2014 AAT- Joakim Soria

  6. #846
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    No, game 2 in Oakland.

    AlAl came in and loaded the bases and Porcello gave up a hit.
    .

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    Sure, a good 120 innings has a lot of value. But you still need starters. Unless your fifth starter provides more value, you are wasting valuable innings.

    I think it could have worked for the tigers this year.

    As for what guys did in the 70s, I'm not sure you can give that a lot of weight. Hitters weren't as talented. Pitchers didn't throw as hard. I think it was easier to pitch more often back then.

    It's also possible that there wasn't as much concern about which pitchers got the high leverage innings. It could have been an instance of it just being your turn. If so, whatever value you got by the multiple innings of the better pitcher might have been negated by the lesser pitcher failing when it was his turn. That's just a theory, though.
    There was more creative usage of pitchers in the 70s. Managers would use their best pitcher in all kinds of different situations - tie games, runners on base, etc. Probably not with a three-run lead and the bases empty though. That's why they were called firemen rather than closers. In retrospect, there were probably a lot of cases where they pitched low leverage innings, but they didn't just pitch when it was their turn. Managers seemed to pick spots for their best relievers where the game was on the line rather than stick to defined roles.

    If may be more difficult to pitch today than in the 70s, but I don't think that addresses the oddity of the bi-modal distribution. It seems like there should be a lot of guys targeted for in between 60 and 200 innings. One idea I've always liked is something like this: Have three regular starters, three pitchers that pitch three innings each in game 4 and three pitchers that pitch three innings each in game 5, plus three pure relievers. The six guys that pitch games 4,5 can also relieve one per week. This will take some careful bullpen management, but it seems like it would be easier to find three 200+ innings pitchers and six 120 inning pitchers than five 200 inning pitchers.
    Lee Panas
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  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    There was more creative usage of pitchers in the 70s. Managers would use their best pitcher in all kinds of different situations - tie games, runners on base, etc. Probably not with a three-run lead and the bases empty though. That's why they were called firemen rather than closers. In retrospect, there were probably a lot of cases where they pitched low leverage innings, but they didn't just pitch when it was their turn. Managers seemed to pick spots for their best relievers where the game was on the line rather than stick to defined roles.

    If may be more difficult to pitch today than in the 70s, but I don't think that addresses the oddity of the bi-modal distribution. It seems like there should be a lot of guys targeted for in between 60 and 200 innings. One idea I've always liked is something like this: Have three regular starters, three pitchers that pitch three innings each in game 4 and three pitchers that pitch three innings each in game 5, plus three pure relievers. The six guys that pitch games 4,5 can also relieve one per week. This will take some careful bullpen management, but it seems like it would be easier to find three 200+ innings pitchers and six 120 inning pitchers than five 200 inning pitchers.
    Lee for manager and GM!
    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...yx-d41sg12.png

  9. #849
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    I'm not too excited about this possibility - the Phillies would need to be including a nice chunk of cash.

    Double-A Reading is playing Erie this afternoon in Erie, and the Phillies planned to have a scout there to watch Tigers right-hander Jake Thompson, who pitched last week in the All-Star Futures Game. The Tigers drafted him in the second round of the 2012 First-Year Player Draft. Thompson, 20, recently received a promotion to Erie after going 6-4 with a 3.14 ERA in 16 starts with Class A Lakewood.

    The Tigers are looking for bullpen help and it is well known Jonathan Papelbon and Antonio Bastardo are available.
    Phillies Take Peek at Tigers Prospect « Trade Buzz
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigersSlappy View Post
    I'm not too excited about this possibility - the Phillies would need to be including a nice chunk of cash.



    Phillies Take Peek at Tigers Prospect « Trade Buzz
    There's always sticker shock when a trade is made, so although that would be a tough piece to lose, it wouldn't totally surprise me if Thompson is traded for less-than-inspiring bullpen help.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
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  11. #851
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    Papelbon's declining velocity and K's concern me. Bastardo has great stuff but is wild. Unless they think they can cut down on his walks, he wouldn't inspire much confidence although he is better than Coke and Krol.

    I think Philly wants to pull off what Boston did a few years ago by unloading a bunch of large contracts and reload quickly. Based off rumors, it seems like they'd be ok parting with Lee, Papelbon and Rollins and mid tier guys like Bastardo.
    Last edited by Scottwood; 07-23-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    Papelbon's declining velocity and K's concern me. Bastardo has great stuff but is wild. Unless they think they can cut down on his walks, he wouldn't inspire much confidence although he is better than Coke and Krol.

    I think Philly wants to pull off what Boston did a few years ago by unloading a bunch of large contracts and reload quickly. Based off rumors, it seems like they'd be ok parting with Lee, Papelbon and Rollins and mid tier guys like Bastardo.
    Also, they are apparently contemplating cutting Howard loose. He's owed 60 mil after this year.

    Phillies officials “have contemplated the possibility of paying off” and releasing Ryan Howard | HardballTalk

    Thompson would be tough to lose for Papelbon, unless the Phils are eating most of his salary and throwing in Jimmy Rollins.

  13. #853
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    The Tigers don't have much to trade, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had to deal Crawford or Thompson for relief help. Teams know the Tigers need relievers desperately and they aren't going to give them away for fringe prospects
    Lee Panas
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  14. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    The Tigers don't have much to trade, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had to deal Crawford or Thompson for relief help. Teams know the Tigers need relievers desperately and they aren't going to give them away for fringe prospects
    I think they could get a Veras type again without too much trouble. I wouldn't mind the Veras type being a lefty as I've little confidence in Krol right now.

    If they are dealing Thompson in a package, which I have no problem with, I'd want a difference maker like Soria or Benoit.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
    Those who take the extreme positions in American political and economic life are always wrong. - DDE

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    Papelbon's declining velocity and K's concern me. Bastardo has great stuff but is wild. Unless they think they can cut down on his walks, he wouldn't inspire much confidence although he is better than Coke and Krol.

    I think Philly wants to pull off what Boston did a few years ago by unloading a bunch of large contracts and reload quickly. Based off rumors, it seems like they'd be ok parting with Lee, Papelbon and Rollins and mid tier guys like Bastardo.
    Rollins has full no-trade and Papelbon has no-trade to 17 clubs so maybe they will come cheaper, as they will get to call their own shots to a large extent, and Detroit would be an easy-in for playoff baseball. Maybe there's a deal there for those guys, and every prospect we give increases what they'll pay in terms of salary.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
    Those who take the extreme positions in American political and economic life are always wrong. - DDE

  16. #856
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    Default 2014 Trade Deadline Chatter

    Having a pitcher on the Tigers named "Bastardo" would make game threads so much fun I'd be enticed to pull an "Ali" and come out of retirement. If he were a starter I definitely would.
    "If you want a guarantee, buy a toaster."--Clint Eastwood

    2014 Adopt A Tiger: Aníbal Sánchez, RSP

  17. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoBert View Post
    Having a pitcher on the Tigers named "Bastardo" would make game threads so much fun I'd be enticed to pull an "Ali" and come out of retirement. If he were a starter I definitely would.
    Didn't we have one in our minor leagues about 5 or 6 years ago? Maybe in return for Kevin Whelan?
    Live your life for what it can be and not for what it was.

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  18. #858
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    Soria for Thompson and Knebel is a hot rumor right now...possibly trolling...not sure of the source.
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  19. #859
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    Soria to the Tigers for Thompson and Knebel.

    Done deal per Morosi.

    Based on the return for Street, that makes sense. Both LA and Detroit have weak farm systems so a few of their top 10 prospects were going to have to go the other way.
    Last edited by Scottwood; 07-23-2014 at 10:26 PM.
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  20. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by hueytaxi View Post
    Didn't we have one in our minor leagues about 5 or 6 years ago? Maybe in return for Kevin Whelan?
    Definitely had a Bazardo around that time.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
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  21. #861
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    Morosi just tweeted. Done deal pending physical.

    Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi 3m
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    Tigers' trade for Joakim Soria will be finalized once physical exams are completed, source says. Players are agreed upon.
    GO TIGERS

  22. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    Soria to the Tigers for Thompson and Knebel.

    Done deal per Morosi.
    Quote Originally Posted by ROMAD1 View Post
    Soria for Thompson and Knebel is a hot rumor right now...possibly trolling...not sure of the source.
    Hot indeed. I will trust their assessment on Knebel, they seemed kind of cool on him, quite honestly, once he got called up to the show. Bullpen goes from problem to strength late-innings, IMO.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
    Those who take the extreme positions in American political and economic life are always wrong. - DDE

  23. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Who is the Drizzle? View Post
    Definitely had a Bazardo around that time.
    That's it...white 4 door Pontiac.
    Live your life for what it can be and not for what it was.

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  24. #864
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    Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS 1m

    soria has indeed been traded to the #tigers, confirmed

  25. #865
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    I welcome Soria with arms wide open.

    #stapped
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  26. #866
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    Retweeted by Tim Brown
    Kyle Bogenschutz ‏@KyleBogie 43m
    Per a source, #Tigers set to acquire #Rangers right handed closer Joakim Soria. Corey Knebel & Jake Thompson head to Texas in the deal.
    2014AAT-Buck Farmer 2013AAT-Mr Ilitch 2013 AAL-Nick Fairley 2012AAL-Willie Young 2012AAT-Dixon Machado 2011AAL-Tom "Killer" Kowalski 2011AAT-Heather Nabozny 2010AAT-Phil Coke 2008&2007AAT-Sergio Collado
    2007AT-AAT-Alan Trammell

  27. #867
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    I think they still need to get a LH reliever
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  28. #868
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    So by not re-signing Benoit, they save around $5M over the next 2 years (I would guess) but lose 2 good prospects.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
    Those who take the extreme positions in American political and economic life are always wrong. - DDE

  29. #869
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    A lot of people won't like this deal, but Soria was the best reliever available. They gave up two good prospects, but I don't think either is elite and so much can go wrong with pitching prospects. I'm satisfied with the trade.
    Lee Panas
    detroittigertales.com

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  30. #870
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    Soria's an elite reliever and they get him next year too. They should still have enough ammo to pull off another move if they want.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  31. #871
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    Save? They're paying Nathan $20 million...Benoit got like $15.75 mill.

  32. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    A lot of people won't like this deal, but Soria was the best reliever available. They gave up two good prospects, but I don't think either is elite and so much can go wrong with pitching prospects. I'm satisfied with the trade.
    And Tigers "elite prospects" in the high minors aren't really their best guys anyway.

  33. #873
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    Kinda funny to read some of the desperate Philly fans now worried they can't get rid of Papelbon and his money.

    Go get the LHR now..
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

  34. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    A lot of people won't like this deal, but Soria was the best reliever available. They gave up two good prospects, but I don't think either is elite and so much can go wrong with pitching prospects. I'm satisfied with the trade.
    Yeah, the system is so weak that teams are going to ask for Thompson and there are other teams bidding for Soria as well. I thought Knebel was a pretty sure bet to be traded just like Ruffin was a few years ago in the original Fister deal. Soria replaces him and the pick they get for Scherzer will probably be another SP and replace Thompson.

    Outside of Hill and maybe Willy Adames, I'm not sure if there is another prospect that is too good to be traded for an elite reliever who has team control for 2015, as well. They don't have many guys for teams to choose from.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  35. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    A lot of people won't like this deal, but Soria was the best reliever available. They gave up two good prospects, but I don't think either is elite and so much can go wrong with pitching prospects. I'm satisfied with the trade.
    And I feel like they have similar guys to Thompson in A right now, who are maybe not quite as polished, and are actually older. Thompson I feel gets rated a bit higher because he's only 20 even though his stuff isn't huge. So interesting.

    I think Thompson is a poor-mans Jacob Turner, and Knebel is a better version of Chance Ruffin. We'll see how they turn out.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
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  36. #876
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    Yankees just punked the Rangers...on a rain delay. They get away with a lot those Yankees.
    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

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    I liked both prospects quite a bit. I think Texas did well. But, I also think the Tigers had to make the move too. Pretty fair deal for both sides.
    Dreaming about a repeat of 1984, 1968, 1945 and 1935

  38. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scottwood View Post
    Yeah, the system is so weak that teams are going to ask for Thompson and there are other teams bidding for Soria as well. I thought Knebel was a pretty sure bet to be traded just like Ruffin was a few years ago in the original Fister deal. Soria replaces him and the pick they get for Scherzer will probably be another SP and replace Thompson.

    Outside of Hill and maybe Willy Adames, I'm not sure if there is another prospect that is too good to be traded for an elite reliever who has team control for 2015, as well. They don't have many guys for teams to choose from.
    Yeah, Adames, I don't want to see him go. Getting the best reliever available should alleviate any of those fears. Hill and Ray.....both would be too soon, for different reasons. Anybody else is fair game if the price is right, altho I have my favorites like anybody else.
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. - DDE
    Those who take the extreme positions in American political and economic life are always wrong. - DDE

  39. #879
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    The team as currently constructed is capable of winning the World Series!
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

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    Gabe Kapler loves this for us

    'Whatever happens, we have got
    The Maxim Gun, and they have not.

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