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  1. #921
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    I wouldn't mind seeing Wilson signed as closer (on a 1 year deal) with Benoit brought back as the setup man (for 2 years). Not sure how realistic that is, but this fangraphs piece definitely caught my attention.


    Benoit has more say as what his roll will be than the Tigers have at this point. Benoit is a free agent and closers typically make more money than set up men. Benoit would have to have quite a generous streek to want to come back to Detroit as a set up man for say $5-$6M per year, instead of going onto another team as a closer and likely make $8-$10M per year.

    I really think the options boil down to keep Benoit as your closer or get someone else. Something must go terribly wrong with a physical before Benoit and his agent would think of accepting "set up man money" for Benoit's services going forward.
    Last edited by STLTiger69; 11-04-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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  2. #922
    benrush is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I doubt we resign Infante. He had a career year and I believe Dave learned his lesson the last time he started handing out extensions to non star players. Since those extensions they have played the arbitration game and the Free Agent route with big signings. He isn't afraid to give up draft picks to sign free agents and that might drive the price down a little bit fir someone like Granderson!

  3. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff6851 View Post
    Why do people think you trade a starter for relievers? Yeah, he's our fifth starter but look at the rest of the rotation. There are teams that would trade some good pieces for him.
    I suggested trading Porcello because he's be a very expensive ($5+ million) middle / mop-up reliever.

  4. #924
    ballmich is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I suggested trading Porcello because he's be a very expensive ($5+ million) middle / mop-up reliever.
    Porcello's 2013 Stat Rankings (min 150 Innings):

    WAR (fangraphs) = T-33
    ERA = T-55
    FIP = T-40
    xFIP = 14
    K/9IN = T-35
    BB/9IN = 22
    GB% = 4
    BABIP = 87

    No matter how you look at these, collectively, Porcello was a top 50 SP in 2013. You can claim he is nothing more than a middle reliever or mop-up guy, but you just look foolish.
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  5. #925
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    Fielder-for-Kinsler

    Another blog discussed trading Fielder to Texas for Ian Kinsler. Kinsler's WAR has fallen in each of the last 2 years & he's blocking a kid the Rangers LOVE in Profar. Fielder is coming off a down season & disastrous post-season, with 7-8 years left on his contract.

    I would LOVE this move, but I doubt it would ever happen. Tigers need a 2B and this would provide a way to put Miggy back at 1B and shore up our 3B defense.
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  6. #926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlock the Shrine View Post
    He was a 3.1 win 2B last year and that was with him missing over a quarter of the season. Value per win is about $5m per win right now. Combine that with the fact that you're only on the hook for one year at 14m and that seems to be a pretty obvious call for me, especially when most people project he will get 3 years at 10 or 11 per season, so it's highly unlikely he would've accepted the QO.

    Term is far more important to me than salary.

    Also, I really hope something is done to address the team power this offseason rather than just focus entirely on the bullpen, because as of now this team is starving for someone with above average power. Still hoping that they'll try and add one of the mid-tier FA OF like Granderson or Beltran to help with that.
    They were seventh in baseball in HR and second in slugging, they don't need more power.
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  7. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I suggested trading Porcello because he's be a very expensive ($5+ million) middle / mop-up reliever.
    You can trade him but you don't do it for a few relievers. He's also neither of those things on this team.
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  8. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Fielder-for-Kinsler

    Another blog discussed trading Fielder to Texas for Ian Kinsler. Kinsler's WAR has fallen in each of the last 2 years & he's blocking a kid the Rangers LOVE in Profar. Fielder is coming off a down season & disastrous post-season, with 7-8 years left on his contract.

    I would LOVE this move, but I doubt it would ever happen. Tigers need a 2B and this would provide a way to put Miggy back at 1B and shore up our 3B defense.
    As bad as Fielder was last season, Kinsler would be an even larger downgrade to the offense. I'd prefer a Dodgers/Red Sox type deal if the Tigers were going to send Fielder packing, which is highly unlikely to occur.

    I do have to wonder what the Tigers will end up doing this offseason. After seeing the lack of qualifying offers and the declining of Veras' option, I began to wonder if they were preparing to make a big splash. I think they would be better off by adding complimentary pieces to the bullpen & lineup, but it should be an interesting off-season either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff6851 View Post
    They were seventh in baseball in HR and second in slugging, they don't need more power.
    T-6 in the AL in home runs, 8th in ISO. Cabrera hit over 1/4 of the team's home runs. Slugging is a terrible stat to use for this considering they lead in average so I'm not sure why you'd even mention it.

    So yes, team power is a huge problem considering there's not a single player you can count on for 15 home runs besides Fielder and Cabrera.

  10. #930
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  11. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlock the Shrine View Post
    T-6 in the AL in home runs, 8th in ISO. Cabrera hit over 1/4 of the team's home runs. Slugging is a terrible stat to use for this considering they lead in average so I'm not sure why you'd even mention it.

    So yes, team power is a huge problem considering there's not a single player you can count on for 15 home runs besides Fielder and Cabrera.
    It doesn't matter how many HR they hit. If they hit no HR next year and still make the playoffs it doesn't matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff6851 View Post
    It doesn't matter how many HR they hit. If they hit no HR next year and still make the playoffs it doesn't matter.
    Well this is a horrible argument, in a thread where we're trying to discuss how to improve the flaws in the team you feel that the best way to approach the issues is to simply ignore them! Okay then.

  13. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unlock the Shrine View Post
    Well this is a horrible argument, in a thread where we're trying to discuss how to improve the flaws in the team you feel that the best way to approach the issues is to simply ignore them! Okay then.
    Of the flaws this team has, I don't think power is stopping them from winning the World Series.

    Inconsistent hitting and a poor bullpen hurt them. You could say poor baserunning and bad defense too. Payroll is pushing the limits if not surpassing them already, we expect to sign a proven closer. Who do you expect to sign that not only helps us in the power department (one of our smallest "weaknesses") that does not at the same time hurt us in the other departments?
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  14. #934
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    Beltran got a QO, so they'd have to give up a draft pick to get him (assuming he turns it down and pursues FA).

    With every team getting an additional $25 million in revenue this year, and the Tigers having a number of arbitration-eligible players that could fetch a good return, I think its possible DD shops guys like Porcello and Jackson and maybe even Casteallnos to sweeten the pot as part of a big trade to land young, MLB-ready cost-controlled long-term starters at CF and 2B. They would then be able to allocate the saved money by moving Porcello and Jackson (about $12 million) to acquire someone like Beltran on a short-term deal without adding any extra payroll and, theoretically, not diminishing the team's chances in 2014 and setting them up better long-term. Also, they'd still have the money they set aside anyway to go after a closer and probably a few other relief options.

    In a way, the off-season and some of the opportunities they have with desirable trade pieces is kind of set up like 2009 with Jackson and Granderson, so I think there is a chance for a similar trade made with a similar goal of re-allocating assets in the short term to its greater weaknesses to help them win now and also setting them up in a better position for the long-term. It mainly depends on the trade value of some of their players and what type of young, MLB-ready talent they could get in return.
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  15. #935
    benrush is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff6851 View Post
    They were seventh in baseball in HR and second in slugging, they don't need more power.
    One offseason isn't going to change the makeup of this team! They are a bunch of plodders on the base paths and should play for the home runs!

    In terms of fit and dollars Nelson Cruz would be the perfect fit for the sixth hole! I know he sucks in left but I have watched poor defense before and Castellanos is worse! I'd be fine giving up the pick and he could be had cheap due to the biogenesis scandal and draft pick. 3 years 33 million! In 2015 he becomes a dh and part time outfielder when both Victor and Hunter leave.

    I'd be fine with a Kelly Johnson/ Perez platoon at second for next year!

  16. #936
    STLTiger69 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Fielder-for-Kinsler

    Another blog discussed trading Fielder to Texas for Ian Kinsler.....
    I would LOVE this move, but I doubt it would ever happen. Tigers need a 2B and this would provide a way to put Miggy back at 1B and shore up our 3B defense.
    On pages 16 and 18 of this thread we already talked about the Kinsler for Fielder trade.

    If your bored, take a look at Kinsler's numbers away from Texas and see if you still LOVE this move....
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  17. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by benrush View Post
    One offseason isn't going to change the makeup of this team! They are a bunch of plodders on the base paths and should play for the home runs!

    In terms of fit and dollars Nelson Cruz would be the perfect fit for the sixth hole! I know he sucks in left but I have watched poor defense before and Castellanos is worse! I'd be fine giving up the pick and he could be had cheap due to the biogenesis scandal and draft pick. 3 years 33 million! In 2015 he becomes a dh and part time outfielder when both Victor and Hunter leave.

    I'd be fine with a Kelly Johnson/ Perez platoon at second for next year!
    I'm not saying change the type of team we have, I'm saying we should address our glaring weaknesses before worrying about something that's a minor issue at most.
    2012 AL Champs

  18. #938
    nd1377 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Fielder-for-Kinsler
    Tigers need a 2B and this would provide a way to put Miggy back at 1B and shore up our 3B defense.
    So Castellanos to 3rd?

    Does anyone know how good he was at 3rd base in the minors?

  19. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by nd1377 View Post
    So Castellanos to 3rd?

    Does anyone know how good he was at 3rd base in the minors?
    Per the experts here.....pretty awful.
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  20. #940
    nd1377 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keepleyland2 View Post
    Per the experts here.....pretty awful.
    Is his defense at least a little better than Cabrera at 3rd?

  21. #941
    Motown Bombers is offline MotownSports Fan
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    A name I haven't seen mentioned is Chris Young. He had a down season in Oakland but I would definitely take a chance.

  22. #942
    socaltiger is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I think when the bell rings for Free Agency DD will call Beniots, Nathans and Balfours agent and present offers simutaneously and tell all 3 what he is doing ( not the $$$ ) and say " We sign the first to say OK "...it will be done fast.

  23. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by socaltiger View Post
    I think when the bell rings for Free Agency DD will call Beniots, Nathans and Balfours agent and present offers simutaneously and tell all 3 what he is doing ( not the $$$ ) and say " We sign the first to say OK "...it will be done fast.
    I'm sure DD won't put it in those words, but I'm sure he'll be in contact with all 3, and if one of them wants to come to Detroit for a contract that isn't an overpay, that'll be the guy. The nice thing about this FA class is the one place where the Tigers need a guy is probably the deepest in FA, and that is closer.

    The great thing about the off-season is they can go so many directions relatively easily, depending on how the FA and trade market shapes up. They could trade Scherzer for cost-controlled starters, ala 2009. They could re-sign Scherzer. They could do nothing and take the draft pick next year. They could sign a LF, or stick with Dirks/Casty. They could sign a 2B or go with Perez. They could trade Porcello for proven bullpen help, or DD/Ausmus could try the quantity over quality theory in the pen. Whatever they see as value in the market, they can exploit.
    It stays on my head in here, this is the SHAKE SIGNAL, the MASTER SHAKE SIGNAL, you got that?

  24. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by nd1377 View Post
    Is his defense at least a little better than Cabrera at 3rd?
    Worse, the same at best.
    It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/...yx-d41sg12.png

  25. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by socaltiger View Post
    I think when the bell rings for Free Agency DD will call Beniots, Nathans and Balfours agent and present offers simutaneously and tell all 3 what he is doing ( not the $$$ ) and say " We sign the first to say OK "...it will be done fast.
    Well Nathan should be the top priority followed by Balfour. I don't think the Tigers should group the three together because their is a clear pecking order.

    I still have a hard time buying that Leyland went two months and a full spring training without approaching his best reliever and asking him to close games all while having Phil Coke and a straight 92 mile Velverde fast ball mixed some Smyly and Dotel to close games. I was sold a bill of goods that he didn't want to close only to find out he did want to close but was never asked? Sounds like his agent might have had to coax him into saying yes.

  26. #946
    nd1377 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    This was from a Yahoo story. This was at a game on November 3, 2013 between Minnesota and New York in New York. Does Cabrera own an apartment/home in New York or something?

  27. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by nd1377 View Post


    This was from a Yahoo story. This was at a game on November 3, 2013 between Minnesota and New York in New York. Does Cabrera own an apartment/home in New York or something?
    I don't know but everything about that picture is perfect
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  28. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by nd1377 View Post


    This was from a Yahoo story. This was at a game on November 3, 2013 between Minnesota and New York in New York. Does Cabrera own an apartment/home in New York or something?
    I just witnessed him getting the Player's Choice Award...so he was in NYC for that.
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  29. #949
    roarintiger1 is offline MotownSports Fan
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    I am still predicting some sort of large trade by the Tigers......and I think it will be done before the winter meetings. I have no idea who will come to Detroit and who will be traded, but it will raise a lot of eyebrows.

  30. #950
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    13 players received a QO...

    Stephen Drew, Red Sox
    Jacoby Ellsbury, Red Sox
    Mike Napoli, Red Sox
    Robinson Cano, Yankees
    Curtis Granderson, Yankees
    Hiroki Kuroda, Yankees
    Ubaldo Jimenez, Indians
    Ervin Santana, Royals
    Nelson Cruz, Rangers
    Kendrys Morales, Mariners
    Brian McCann, Braves
    Carlos Beltran, Cardinals
    Shin-Soo Choo, Reds

  31. #951
    Charles Liston is offline MotownSports Fan
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    A couple of posts farther up the page revisited the "allow Miggy to return to first base" objective, but in my opinion he doesn't want to move and there isn't anyone including Ausmus who will be crazy enough to try to force him to. And if he's healthy he's still a huge advantage at third, the bat by far overwhelms the defensive mobility problems. Now that Iglesias is at short I am thinking that Cabrera might have more value at third than he does at first anyway. Put him 4 feet off the third base line like a hockey net - if you hit it right to him, he'll catch it, and he has a cannon. Let Iglesias handle the stuff that he can't reach to his left. A bat like that at 3rd base is a ridiculous advantage, far more than a bat like that at 1st base.

  32. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Liston View Post
    A couple of posts farther up the page revisited the "allow Miggy to return to first base" objective, but in my opinion he doesn't want to move and there isn't anyone including Ausmus who will be crazy enough to try to force him to. And if he's healthy he's still a huge advantage at third, the bat by far overwhelms the defensive mobility problems. Now that Iglesias is at short I am thinking that Cabrera might have more value at third than he does at first anyway. Put him 4 feet off the third base line like a hockey net - if you hit it right to him, he'll catch it, and he has a cannon. Let Iglesias handle the stuff that he can't reach to his left. A bat like that at 3rd base is a ridiculous advantage, far more than a bat like that at 1st base.
    Plus his lack of range at 1st doesn't hurt you that much less than at 3rd -especially on a team of all right hand starters that in recent years often sees more left handed hitters in total than right. On the other hand, at 1st you get almost no return on the value of his arm. If he is going to be out there and is healthy, and at least until the rotation features a couple of lefties, I'd just as soon see Cabrera stay at 3rd as well.
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  33. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvink View Post
    13 players received a QO...

    Stephen Drew, Red Sox
    Jacoby Ellsbury, Red Sox
    Mike Napoli, Red Sox
    Robinson Cano, Yankees
    Curtis Granderson, Yankees
    Hiroki Kuroda, Yankees
    Ubaldo Jimenez, Indians
    Ervin Santana, Royals
    Nelson Cruz, Rangers
    Kendrys Morales, Mariners
    Brian McCann, Braves
    Carlos Beltran, Cardinals
    Shin-Soo Choo, Reds

    Blah!! Nothing here.
    Speed and Bullpen fit our needs.

  34. #954
    Tim Mitchell is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Easy. Move Fielder to the Mets for 3 of their young studs.
    Trade Scherzer to the Cardinals for 2 or 3 of their young studs.

  35. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mitchell View Post
    Easy. Move Fielder to the Mets for 3 of their young studs.
    Trade Scherzer to the Cardinals for 2 or 3 of their young studs.
    Then just trade Santiago for Pujols, and we'll be all set.
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  36. #956
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    Terry Mills and Lindsay Hunter for Chris Webber
    .

  37. #957
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  38. #958
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    Joe Sparma & Dick McAuliffe for Joe Morgan
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  39. #959
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    Shelton to MLive for their three best prospects.
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    "They can use both (old- and new-school statistics)," Cabrera said. "In 2012, we've got to take advantage of all that.

  40. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiger337 View Post
    Shelton to MLive for their three best prospects.
    I don't know about you, but I feel that Shelton is worth more than nothing.
    Every time you play a hand of you poker you wanna run through a mental check list. Head Position Hand Position Neck Position Breathing Posture. More than 25 items. It's a lot. And that why I've come up with a handy mnemonic device. Just one word: HPHPNPBPECMSPAMDCPAFTSTTL. It's easy.

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