Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    tigerkid23's Avatar
    tigerkid23 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Michigan University
    Posts
    10,217

    Default Illitch proposes downtown arena, arts district




    "I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~ Tom Clark

  2. #2
    KleShreen's Avatar
    KleShreen is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Allendale, Michigan
    Posts
    4,573

    Default

    I love it. And if Illitch is willing to pay for a good portion of it, which it seems he is, I think it's a great move. Myself, I would vote for the "Just west of Woodward and north of I-75" site. I like the idea of having all the fields/arenas kind of right there in the same area.
    2014 AAT: Steven "Light Tower Power" Moya
    2013 AAL: Riley Reiff;
    Record While I'm In Attendance (Career) Tigers: 8-2, Whitecaps: 17-7, GVSU Football: 68-7

  3. #3
    tigerkid23's Avatar
    tigerkid23 is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Michigan University
    Posts
    10,217

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KleShreen View Post
    I love it. And if Illitch is willing to pay for a good portion of it, which it seems he is, I think it's a great move. Myself, I would vote for the "Just west of Woodward and north of I-75" site. I like the idea of having all the fields/arenas kind of right there in the same area.
    Agreed 100% on the spot. That would be ideal.
    "I'm convinced that every boy, in his heart, would rather steal second base than an automobile." ~ Tom Clark

  4. #4
    Mr.TaterSalad's Avatar
    Mr.TaterSalad is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Canton
    Posts
    3,292

    Default

    Won't happen, City Council will stonewall just like they have for almost a decade now with the Cobo deal.

  5. #5
    mtutiger's Avatar
    mtutiger is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    8,419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TaterSalad View Post
    Won't happen, City Council will stonewall just like they have for almost a decade now with the Cobo deal.
    As they should...

    A Senate Fiscal Agency analysis said the bill “would reduce both state School Aid Fund revenue and local tax revenue by an unknown amount.”
    I'm not a Detroit resident, nor Michigan resident anymore, but it should be evident that the idea of taxpayer funding for sporting venues with the notion of "if you build it, they will come" urban development being the saving grace for the city as a whole is a joke.

    I'd be curious to see some numbers and where the funding sources are coming from before I'd get excited about this.
    "If you're committed enough, you can make any story work. I once convinced a woman that I was Kevin Costner and it worked... because I believed it!" - Saul Goodman
    2014 AAT: Dan Dickerson

  6. #6
    chasfh's Avatar
    chasfh is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    60647
    Posts
    23,305

    Default

    That means I would lose my free parking on Woodward for Tigers and Lions games. Boo.

    Ah well—OTOH, it won't be operational until at least 2018, I think, so maybe by that time I'll be too old to park over half a mile away and hike it to save twenty bucks.
    If there's a God, He is laughing at us and our football team.

  7. #7
    John_Brian_K's Avatar
    John_Brian_K is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dearborn, MI
    Posts
    12,861

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtutiger View Post
    As they should...



    I'm not a Detroit resident, nor Michigan resident anymore, but it should be evident that the idea of taxpayer funding for sporting venues with the notion of "if you build it, they will come" urban development being the saving grace for the city as a whole is a joke.

    I'd be curious to see some numbers and where the funding sources are coming from before I'd get excited about this.
    As a whole of course. It is not and should not be counted on to fix all the cities problems, but that does not mean it is a bad idea. This stems from public perception and government spin. The government spins it to sound better than it is to entice the citizens and in reality it WILL help, but not as much as they say and the public eats it up and expects it to fix everything.

    I agree with the majority of what you just wrote, but to stick up for THAT council is something I will never do. They have been handcuffing the city for decades.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  8. #8
    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    7,660

    Default

    I'm pretty sure most of the businesses around the stadiums are doing much better than they would be otherwise.

  9. #9
    mtutiger's Avatar
    mtutiger is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    8,419

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    As a whole of course. It is not and should not be counted on to fix all the cities problems, but that does not mean it is a bad idea. This stems from public perception and government spin. The government spins it to sound better than it is to entice the citizens and in reality it WILL help, but not as much as they say and the public eats it up and expects it to fix everything.

    I agree with the majority of what you just wrote, but to stick up for THAT council is something I will never do. They have been handcuffing the city for decades.
    I not necessarily speaking up for the Detroit City Council... I'm just saying that they should do their job and not just roll over and give a shitpot full of taxpayer money to Olympia unless they look over all the numbers and conclude that it's best for all of the people who will ultimately be funding the project.

    Individual neighborhoods adjacent to cities often can be revitalized due to stadiums being built, but the bigger issue should be how it helps the city as a whole. Now, once again, I can't make a judgment until I see the numbers, but there's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism towards public financing of stadiums and arenas.
    Last edited by mtutiger; 12-05-2012 at 11:02 PM.
    "If you're committed enough, you can make any story work. I once convinced a woman that I was Kevin Costner and it worked... because I believed it!" - Saul Goodman
    2014 AAT: Dan Dickerson

  10. #10
    mtutiger's Avatar
    mtutiger is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    8,419

    Default

    Semi-related note... Deadspin had an article with some facts about public financing issues recently.

    Animated Infographic: Watch As America's Stadiums Pile Up On The Backs Of Taxpayers Through The Years

    Stadium data from 1909-2003 come from the fantastic research of Judith Grant Long at Rutgers University. Data since 2003 come from a variety of sources collected by the author, including some compiled by the Minnesota Convention, Leisure & Tourism Association.

    There's a lot in here, but these are some key takeaways:

    These 186 stadiums cost $53.0 billion in 2012 dollars, of which $32.2 billion—or 61 percent—was publicly financed. That's a shitload of taxpayer money.

    Public financing of stadiums is not a new development; it began with the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum, which opened in 1923. Los Angeles was also the first city to devise a more complex public/private-funding mix: Dodgers Stadium was 25 percent publicly funded in 1962.

    The mid-century urban-renewal movement led to a major boom in ugly stadium construction, most of it publicly funded. From 1956 to 1976, 50 stadiums were built—2.4 per year—at a cost of $10.8 billion in 2012 dollars, with 75 percent coming from the public. In the previous 47 years only 27 stadiums had gone up, at a cost of $1.0 billion, with 47 percent coming from the public. By 1957 more public money had been spent on stadiums than private, and it's stayed that way ever since.

    Recessions are bad for the stadium business. In the 10 years from 1977 to 1986, during which span the country fell into a double-dip recession, only six stadiums were built, at a cost of $1.0 billion, of which 90 percent was public.

    The 1990s and early 2000s, on the other hand, were absolutely insane. From 1991 to 2004, a whopping 78 stadiums—5.6 per year—were built or underwent major renovation. This came to a cost of $26.0 billion (61 percent public).

    While stadium growth has slowed since then—only 18 stadiums built since 2004—private funding (53 percent) has actually surpassed public funding for the first time in decades. This is largely due to four mega-projects: Cowboys Stadium, new Yankees Stadium, Barclays Center, and MetLife Stadium. Combined, those projects cost $5.4 billion, of which $4.5 billion was private (83 percent).
    "If you're committed enough, you can make any story work. I once convinced a woman that I was Kevin Costner and it worked... because I believed it!" - Saul Goodman
    2014 AAT: Dan Dickerson

  11. #11
    lordstanley's Avatar
    lordstanley is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    16,468

    Default

    Mtutiger is absolutely right about skepticism towards public finacncing of arenas and stadiums. In fact I'm way past healthy skepticism and have jaded cynicism. This is a pet topic of mine. The inflated claims and faulty projections with respect to financial spinoffs are embarrassingly bad. Even worse in cases when respected firms such as the Big 4 accountants put their names on glowing reports when they obviously know better.

  12. #12
    lordstanley's Avatar
    lordstanley is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Vancouver
    Posts
    16,468

    Default

    Btw, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I realized that Mtutiger autocorrects to "nuttier" on my iPad. Sorry, I found that amusing, ha.

  13. #13
    John_Brian_K's Avatar
    John_Brian_K is offline MotownSports Fan
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Dearborn, MI
    Posts
    12,861

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtutiger View Post
    I not necessarily speaking up for the Detroit City Council... I'm just saying that they should do their job and not just roll over and give a shitpot full of taxpayer money to Olympia unless they look over all the numbers and conclude that it's best for all of the people who will ultimately be funding the project.

    Individual neighborhoods adjacent to cities often can be revitalized due to stadiums being built, but the bigger issue should be how it helps the city as a whole. Now, once again, I can't make a judgment until I see the numbers, but there's nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism towards public financing of stadiums and arenas.
    That I am on board with.

    The way I see it, building a stadium, even at the expense of taxpayers...even though I am not a fan of taxpayer stadiums to begin with, does nothing BUT promote growth.

    I am a fan of some of the theories of trickle down economics....to Quote George Reisman:

    "There is only the fact that capital accumulation and economic progress depend on saving and innovation and that these in turn depend on the freedom to make high profits and accumulate great wealth."
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

Similar Threads

  1. Creativity and Arts Education
    By jackson_cannery in forum MotownSports Bar and Grill
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 01-17-2011, 12:58 PM
  2. Wings/Pistons shared downtown arena?
    By Johnny Mac in forum Detroit Red Wings
    Replies: 148
    Last Post: 06-25-2010, 02:31 PM
  3. Martial Arts
    By DetroitCity313 in forum MotownSports Bar and Grill
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-30-2010, 11:06 PM
  4. Rumor: Microsoft to buy Electronic Arts
    By Amish Love Machine in forum MotownSports Arcade
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-24-2009, 03:11 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-16-2007, 06:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •