2012 Pistons Offseason

**Nastradamus** · 07-04-2012, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

I don't mind a slashing type. I just don't want somebody who dominates the ball as much as Stuckey (unless it is a big time star) and cannot shoot.

Stuckey does give you the value of getting to the line a lot. I would love him as a 6th man. But we are paying him a lot of money to be a 6th man. The guy I would be targeting is James Harden on a max contract next offseason. I would imagine he will get this offer from a few teams but maybe we can lure him to Detroit. Otherwise, I would not mind taking a flyer on Demar DeRozan, who is more of a conventional two guard than Stuckey, and potential breakout player at some point.

Edit: I know DeRozan is not a good three point shooter right now but he is excellent from mid range. He has a lot of holes but he also has the potential of somebody I think might be worth taking a flyer on.

if you can get Harden that would be great, but Derozan sucks and Stuckey doesn't dominate the ball nearly as well as you make it out to sound. Derozan has the same usage rate while being significantly less efficient. Hoping Stuckey can take another 3-4% jump in 3 point shooting over the next year or 2 though, I'll admit that. He'd be great as a 6th man, but this team is not anywhere near thinking about a move like that IMO.

**mickeyb105** · 07-05-2012, 10:58 AM

I don't know where Stuckey fits into the team's plans long-term, but I sure would love to be able to use him at our third guard. IMO, we either need to find a dynamic PG in the draft next year and slide Knight over to SG, or we need an Eddie Jones-type of 2 who can shoot, slash and defend 2's and some 3's. Maybe English can be that guy at some point, and we'll find out a little more in summer league.

Would Stuckey be able to handle coming off the bench for us, given how he's acted out in the past? I suppose it doesn't matter if we keep Magette, as bringing him off the bench would give us a solid boost in energy (albeit a different skill set than Stuckey would bring us).

**Nastradamus** · 07-05-2012, 11:01 AM

I don't see Knight ever playing anything but point. I'm not married to him long term, but he's our PG if he's here.

**mickeyb105** · 07-05-2012, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I don't see Knight ever playing anything but point. I'm not married to him long term, but he's our PG if he's here.

It would be nice to have a natural distributor, but we definitely have bigger problems.

**DrWho17** · 07-05-2012, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

Hollinger suggested Atlanta could be putting themselves in position for a Howard, Paul, and Smith big three. Howard and Smith are from Atlanta...Paul supposedly wanted to play there coming out of college. To do this, they would have to trade Al Horford. I would love to bring him to Detroit.

Where would Horford play? Same problem in ATL though, but he's really a 4, Monroe is probably a better player today then Horford, and I expect he has more improvement left in him then Horford. Monroe/Horford playing together would probably be rough, they both share the same weaknesses defensively.

**DrWho17** · 07-05-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

If he is starting, I want him as the 4th (at most) best player in the starting lineup. I would much rather have the Pistons have a shooting guard who can shoot and play defense while giving up the ball handling skills Stuckey has.

Stuckey is a good defender.

**DrWho17** · 07-05-2012, 04:30 PM

Lowry traded to the Raptors for a #1. Houston and Toronto are in panic mode, how long before Morey/Colangelo get the boot.

**jonjd** · 07-05-2012, 04:34 PM

I actually think that the Raps did well in getting Lowry.

Also, Boston picked up a real gem with Sullinger. He is busy working hard on his first step and overall awareness it seems.
https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/Jared_...42690186043393

**Hart** · 07-05-2012, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Where would Horford play? Same problem in ATL though, but he's really a 4, Monroe is probably a better player today then Horford, and I expect he has more improvement left in him then Horford. Monroe/Horford playing together would probably be rough, they both share the same weaknesses defensively.

The Pistons would have to trade Monroe to get Horford and I would not do that either. I think Horford is still slightly better at this point because of his defense but Monroe could easily surpass him as an overall player next year. I do think these guys could play together in the frontcourt but I also know that is unrealistic because we have nobody besides Monroe to trade for him.

**Hart** · 07-05-2012, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Stuckey is a good defender.

Stuckey's opponent PER is better than I expected. Apparently, he is even better defending point guards than shooting guards based on opponent PER. My eyes tell me that he has more trouble with quicker guards though. I don't know any otherr defensive metrics but would be interested in what they show. Maybe he is better than I what I observe on the court.

Either way, once you get to championship level basketball teams, I would not want Stuckey defending opposing two guards. He probably would be no worse than Rip in his prime but Rip had Wallace and Wallace to cover for his mistakes.

**Hart** · 07-05-2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I don't see Knight ever playing anything but point. I'm not married to him long term, but he's our PG if he's here.

Agree on this. I am hopeful he can be a solid starter but am certainly not going to pass up another good point guard to see how Knight develops. Either way, I think we will have a pretty good idea next year where his career is heading.

**DrWho17** · 07-06-2012, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hart

Stuckey's opponent PER is better than I expected. Apparently, he is even better defending point guards than shooting guards based on opponent PER. My eyes tell me that he has more trouble with quicker guards though. I don't know any otherr defensive metrics but would be interested in what they show. Maybe he is better than I what I observe on the court.

Either way, once you get to championship level basketball teams, I would not want Stuckey defending opposing two guards. He probably would be no worse than Rip in his prime but Rip had Wallace and Wallace to cover for his mistakes.

If you are looking at PER Stuckey is outstanding against PG's he's dominant defensively, against SG's he's +2 which is also good, if you look at the eye test he is also very good. You must also realize last year was the first year Stuckey actually played under a decent coach that had the ability to enforce a defensive scheme on the team, he also gets hurt on PER because the Pistons lacked an effictive basket protector. See where he ends up with the new Russian guy and Drummond erasing his opponents. I think Stuckey will be elite by the numbers as he is very good at defending the jumper and post, his problem is getting beat off the dribble which will be lessened with an interior shot blocking presence. PER is a team stat almost as much as an individual stat though, so take it with a grain of salt I guess.

**KleShreen** · 07-06-2012, 05:17 AM

Surprisingly, I'm actually liking the direction the Pistons have taken this off-season. While the rest of the league seems to be converting to a more run-and-gun smaller type of basketball, I'm hoping the continued additions of contributing 7-footers can take the rest of the league out of it's comfort level. Force teams to shoot over the Pistons and have to make 3's to win games. Of course, I'm assuming that's the theory on paper, but execution is always tougher.

**Hart** · 07-06-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

If you are looking at PER Stuckey is outstanding against PG's he's dominant defensively, against SG's he's +2 which is also good, if you look at the eye test he is also very good. You must also realize last year was the first year Stuckey actually played under a decent coach that had the ability to enforce a defensive scheme on the team, he also gets hurt on PER because the Pistons lacked an effictive basket protector. See where he ends up with the new Russian guy and Drummond erasing his opponents. I think Stuckey will be elite by the numbers as he is very good at defending the jumper and post, his problem is getting beat off the dribble which will be lessened with an interior shot blocking presence. PER is a team stat almost as much as an individual stat though, so take it with a grain of salt I guess.

I think PER can tell you a lot about a player but I agree when you are looking at defensive metrics, things can be very flawed. Wing players always look better when they have a shot blocker behind them.

**Hart** · 07-06-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by KleShreen

Surprisingly, I'm actually liking the direction the Pistons have taken this off-season. While the rest of the league seems to be converting to a more run-and-gun smaller type of basketball, I'm hoping the continued additions of contributing 7-footers can take the rest of the league out of it's comfort level. Force teams to shoot over the Pistons and have to make 3's to win games. Of course, I'm assuming that's the theory on paper, but execution is always tougher.

It is a point guards league but unless you have Lebron James, I think the best way to build a championship team is with players who can protect the basket. Boston was not near as good this year as Miami but took them to 7 games, largely because of Garnett inside IMO. Orlando has had average players around Howard for years yet when Howard is healthy, they are a contender. Indiana put a scare into Miami early in the conference semi-finals because Hibbert was making it tough for Wade and Lebron to get easy baskets close to the hoop. Get the rim protectors and you have a chance against more talented teams.

I love Monroe but he will never be a great weakside defensive player. This being the case, I hope the Pistons focus on and athletic small forward who who can block some shots to make up for Monroe at the power forward position.

**4hzglory** · 07-06-2012, 01:04 PM

I love Monroe but he will never be a great weakside defensive player. This being the case, I hope the Pistons focus on and athletic small forward who who can block some shots to make up for Monroe at the power forward position.

Maybe they will draft an athletic shot-blocking 7ft 260+ lb 18 year old and sign another shot blocking athletic 7 footer to do that

**Nastradamus** · 07-06-2012, 04:09 PM

Ya, Drummond can do the big time defensive work down low. Monroe is no slouch though. He's tall, he moves his feet and has good hands. He's not a shotblocker or a superb athlete, but he's not a defensive liability either.

**DrWho17** · 07-06-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

It is a point guards league but unless you have Lebron James, I think the best way to build a championship team is with players who can protect the basket. Boston was not near as good this year as Miami but took them to 7 games, largely because of Garnett inside IMO. Orlando has had average players around Howard for years yet when Howard is healthy, they are a contender. Indiana put a scare into Miami early in the conference semi-finals because Hibbert was making it tough for Wade and Lebron to get easy baskets close to the hoop. Get the rim protectors and you have a chance against more talented teams.

I love Monroe but he will never be a great weakside defensive player. This being the case, I hope the Pistons focus on and athletic small forward who who can block some shots to make up for Monroe at the power forward position.

Drummond can probably do that now.

**Hart** · 07-06-2012, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Maybe they will draft an athletic shot-blocking 7ft 260+ lb 18 year old and sign another shot blocking athletic 7 footer to do that

Drummond was a huge get but I hope it does not all fall on him...like it has with Dwight Howard in Orlando.

**Hart** · 07-06-2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Ya, Drummond can do the big time defensive work down low. Monroe is no slouch though. He's tall, he moves his feet and has good hands. He's not a shotblocker or a superb athlete, but he's not a defensive liability either.

I do agree he moves well and he will get more steals than your average power forward. But this is not as valuable in my mind as a rim protector. He is not a huge liability on defense next to a good center; but he is still not a shot blocker either.

**DrWho17** · 07-07-2012, 12:52 PM

Ok, Dumars I have one for you, sign Bayless who was just released by one of the dumber GM's in the league. They could get him on the cheap, guy that is still young with big potential.

**DaBishop** · 07-07-2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Ya, Drummond can do the big time defensive work down low. Monroe is no slouch though. He's tall, he moves his feet and has good hands. He's not a shotblocker or a superb athlete, but he's not a defensive liability either.

I'd love to see Monroe study how Laimbeer used to get shot blocks and defend. I think he had a similar skill set (minus the long range distance).

**Porcelain God** · 07-07-2012, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Ok, Dumars I have one for you, sign Bayless who was just released by one of the dumber GM's in the league. They could get him on the cheap, guy that is still young with big potential.

Wow, can't believe they released him. Still very young with tons of potential. Get it done Joe.

**Nastradamus** · 07-08-2012, 11:15 AM

Not a Bayless fan. We have enough combo type guards. We need a veteran at the PG spot who is more of a pure point. I'd rather have Mayo if we want a scorer, as I'm not sure who our backup 2 is right now.

Also, apparently the guy at draftexpress loves the Ukranian big man we signed. Said he dominated over there and "you don't find 7 footers with that kind of athleticism". Maybe he'll be our Omer Asik or something. Different playing styles, but same idea.

**jonjd** · 07-08-2012, 11:37 AM

I am the biggest supporter of all "projects" and always want to see an underdog succeed, but in professional sports, has a project ever worked out? The guy with "raw skills needing to be seasoned."

I'm talking about the Ukrainian.

**Hart** · 07-08-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Not a Bayless fan. We have enough combo type guards. We need a veteran at the PG spot who is more of a pure point. I'd rather have Mayo if we want a scorer, as I'm not sure who our backup 2 is right now.

Also, apparently the guy at draftexpress loves the Ukranian big man we signed. Said he dominated over there and "you don't find 7 footers with that kind of athleticism". Maybe he'll be our Omer Asik or something. Different playing styles, but same idea.

I think you are right about Bayless being too repetitive for this team. He and Stuckey are both combo guards...Brandon Knight maybe too but I have some hope that Knight turns into a guard who can play the point effectively.

We are paying Stuckey 8.5 million per year. I wonder what Bayless will get. Bayless does not have Stuckey's size but he has a better jump shot.

**DaBishop** · 07-08-2012, 11:55 AM

what's the difference between the Ukranian and Drummond as far as your concern over projects working out.

Regardless, I'm not necessarily sure the Ukranian is a project anyway. He's played professionally for 7 years already. I know there's an article thread that says he's a work in progress but I don't think that necessarily makes him a project, just an improving player.

**Hart** · 07-08-2012, 11:59 AM

One other relatively young guy whose stats took a big jump last season was Gerald Green. He might be worth taking a flyer on.

**mickeyb105** · 07-08-2012, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Not a Bayless fan. We have enough combo type guards. We need a veteran at the PG spot who is more of a pure point. I'd rather have Mayo if we want a scorer, as I'm not sure who our backup 2 is right now.

Also, apparently the guy at draftexpress loves the Ukranian big man we signed. Said he dominated over there and "you don't find 7 footers with that kind of athleticism". Maybe he'll be our Omer Asik or something. Different playing styles, but same idea.

IMO Magette is the backup 2 right now if the season started tomorrow. When we got him I wasn't sold we would keep him, but it kind of looks like they are at this point.

With Magette swinging between the 2 and 3 off the bench, JJ playing the 3 and 4 off the bench, and Max chipping in at the 4 somehow—whether he starts the game or comes off the bench, he'll get his 20 or so minutes. That leaves Bynum to pick up some minutes at the point whenever Knight or Stuckey aren't running it. Bynum isn't outstanding, but I think he's effective enough so that we don't need to try to get rid of him and get another veteran pg to come in and play 15-20 MIN.

Figure there are 96 minutes available in the backcourt total each game:

Here is how the PT could break down on avg.

Knight 34 min
Stuckey 32 min
Bynum 14 min
Magette 10 min
Daye 6 min

There are a lot of factors involved, of course, but I think we'll see quite a bit of Magette at the 2 this season if he is still here. If Daye is moved, those minutes easily go to Magette and Jerebko will play the bulk of his minutes backing up Tay at the 3.

The backcourt, to some degree, will be impacted by how ready Drummond/Kravstov are to contribute. If both are ready for minutes, there's our center rotation with Max coming in to back up Monroe and JJ being used situationally at the 4. This means JJ gets most of his 20 min at the 3 and Magette gets lots of run in the backcourt. This makes Almost all of Bynum's PT evaporate and Daye's non-existant.

If only one or neither of our rookie bigs are ready for the rotation, then Monroe slides to the 4, Max gets more minutes at 4 and 5 (yikes) JJ gets more minutes at the 4, Prince's minutes don't change, Magette splits even between 2/3, and Bynum gets some run as the backup pg. For now, though, our backup pg appears to be Stuckey when he's healthy.

In looking at this, it is a mystery where Charlie V or Singler fit. For now, it looks like they are on the outside-looking-in as far as the rotation goes.

One of the positive things about the Detroit roster is that it is versatile. That said, it would be nice to have a truly dynamic 3. But in today's NBA, you can't have it all.

**mickeyb105** · 07-08-2012, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

what's the difference between the Ukranian and Drummond as far as your concern over projects working out.

Regardless, I'm not necessarily sure the Ukranian is a project anyway. He's played professionally for 7 years already. I know there's an article thread that says he's a work in progress but I don't think that necessarily makes him a project, just an improving player.

It is tough to say without seeing him play at all over those seven years. We got William Bedford when he was 24 and he was very much still considered a project. You never know for sure how long it is going to take for a player to "get it". Too bad the only thing Bedford ever got was hard time for drug charges—what a waste of talent!

Then there are guys like Isaac Austin, a late 2nd round big who turned himself into a useful player at 27 after bouncing around a bit.

Joe D is taking gambling on two defensive-minded bigs, and in essence, one is insurance for the other. I think it is a solid move for a GM who wants to save his pennies for a big FA catch in 2013 and possibly another in 2014.

**Hart** · 07-08-2012, 03:23 PM

I don't see Kravstov as a project as much as just taking a flyer on a guy who might be a defensive presence in the NBA. It is a good risk and we should know within a year whether it was worth it. He is not really a developmental prospect.

**mickeyb105** · 07-08-2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

I don't see Kravstov as a project as much as just taking a flyer on a guy who might be a defensive presence in the NBA. It is a good risk and we should know within a year whether it was worth it. He is not really a developmental prospect.

Hopefully know more soon, I'm tired of seeing that one-block clip on you tube that represents his highlights package.

**weaselpuppy** · 07-10-2012, 01:41 AM

Wondering what San Antonio wants for DeJuan Blair......

**DrWho17** · 07-10-2012, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by weaselpuppy

Wondering what San Antonio wants for DeJuan Blair......

We already have a more athletic version in Maxiel, and we've been trying to get rid of him for years.

**Nastradamus** · 07-10-2012, 03:51 PM

More athletic or not, Maxiell is no Dejuan Blair. Blair has had a better PER in all 3 of his seasons than Maxiell has had in any year and has better defensive metrics. Overall he's worth about 1.5 times the win shares per 48.

**qsilvr2531** · 07-10-2012, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

We already have a more athletic version in Maxiel, and we've been trying to get rid of him for years.

Maxiel is more athletic but Blair is actually good at basketball.

**EatEmUpTigers711** · 07-10-2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

We already have a more athletic version in Maxiel, and we've been trying to get rid of him for years.

Maxiell's career year wasn't as good as DeJuan's worst year.

**4hzglory** · 07-10-2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by qsilvr2531

Maxiel is more athletic but Blair is actually good at basketball.

Completely agree, but do we really have room/need either?

**qsilvr2531** · 07-10-2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by 4hzglory

Completely agree, but do we really have room/need either?

I think we could use Blair if he landed in our lap but I don't think the Spurs are going to give him to us so it doesn't really matter.

**DrWho17** · 07-10-2012, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by EatEmUpTigers711

Maxiell's career year wasn't as good as DeJuan's worst year.

Look at the stats, Maxiel in year #3 was pretty much the same, they are the same player really, Blair is slightly better offensively, Maxiel better defensively (Blair is no shot blocker). Only difference is Maxiel doesn't lack ligaments in his knees, and is older, also Detroit plays at a much slower pace, in equal minutes Blair gets more touches, but heh if undersized power players who can't jump and without knee ligaments floats your boat then have at it.

Edit: I don't want Maxiel on the team either and don't want to replace him with a younger less athletic version.