2012 Pistons Offseason

**Hart** · 06-29-2012, 08:27 PM

I don't know if Harden is a max contract player but I do agree he is one of the top shooting guards in the NBA, easily top 5. I also don't believe he is just a scorer...he does a lot of things well.

The one thing we cannot do is vastly overpay for role players off the bench like we did for Gordon and CV the first time around. If nobody wants to come here, I would rather just sign veterans to one year deals and wait until the following year so we don't cripple ourselves again. And if nobody wants to come that next year, we do the same thing again. I don't care if we never sign another star; I just don't want that feeling of hopelessness we had the past three years.

**Hart** · 06-29-2012, 08:42 PM

Just to reference some names that will be out there besides Bynum and Howard because I am sure we will be discussing this the next 12 months, here are a few other big names that will be unrestricted: Josh Smith, Kevin Martin, Chris Paul, David West, Monta Ellis, Elton Brand, Manu Ginobli, Stephen Jackson, Devin Harris, Al Jefferson, and Paul Millsap. Besides Harden, the some bigger name restricted free agents are Taj Gibson, Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry, Darren Collison, Nikola Pekovic, Tyreke Evans, DeJuan Blair, and Tiago Splitter. If the Pistons do amnesty CV, I have a feeling they would make a run at Josh Smith.

**MC24** · 07-01-2012, 08:41 PM

I'm glad we don't have much cap space. Seems like a lot of guys are getting overpaid.

I saw a rumored deal of 4 years/45-50 million for Batum

Houston signed Asik to 3 years/25.1 million

Rumor of Hibbert getting a max deal

Just crazy money being thrown around imo.

**nd1377** · 07-01-2012, 10:31 PM

Does anyone want to see Chris Kaman in Detroit this upcoming season? Is he worth signing?

**Nastradamus** · 07-01-2012, 11:41 PM

No on Kaman. Terrible defender, always injured, will be overpaid. If he wants to take a 2/8 deal to come off the bench we can talk maybe.

**Nastradamus** · 07-01-2012, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by MC24

I'm glad we don't have much cap space. Seems like a lot of guys are getting overpaid.

I saw a rumored deal of 4 years/45-50 million for Batum

Houston signed Asik to 3 years/25.1 million

Rumor of Hibbert getting a max deal

Just crazy money being thrown around imo.

Eh, that's free agency for you. I'm not sure any of those are drastic overpays. Asik has sick defensive metrics and there aren't a lot of true, 2 way Centers in this league in their prime like Hibbert. Batum's deal is high for me though. Good player, not that good. Closer to an Ariza than an all star SF.

**TigersSlappy** · 07-02-2012, 04:33 AM

According to ESPN’s Marc Stein, the Pistons have reached a multi-year agreement with center Vyacheslav Kravtsov. Kravtsov, an athletic seven-footer, averaged 10.6 points and 5.5 rebounds in 22 minutes per game last season for BC Donetsk in the Ukranian league.

Pistons will sign Ukranian big man - Detroit Pistons - The Detroit News

**Buddha** · 07-02-2012, 09:12 AM

Are the Pistons going to have enough room for all these new players? Does that mean they amnesty Charlie and let Wallace retire?

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 07-02-2012, 09:32 AM

They are at 15 with this new signing. 15 is your limit.

**Nastradamus** · 07-02-2012, 10:45 AM

They probably have a little flexibility though, whether a trade, amnesty or someone being waived. Could they waive Daye or trade him for a bag of balls at least?

Word is they are interested in Michael Beasley. I don't love it, but I don't hate it. It'd have to be a cheap gamble type of deal though, short term. We have no scoring, so a pure scorer type would be nice. Beasley scores 20 points per 36 over his career and rebounds pretty well. No defense of course, but as a bench scorer that'd be fine.

I like the signing of this big man. Could be nothing, but I like the thinking outside the box. Article says Brian Hill coached him so they have some knowledge of him. Athletic, defensive presence. I'll take it.

**DTroppens** · 07-02-2012, 11:34 AM

One minute Ben was retiring and then, I guess, they were hedging their bets on the whole thing.

Has it been determined one way or the other at all?

**Hart** · 07-02-2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Eh, that's free agency for you. I'm not sure any of those are drastic overpays. Asik has sick defensive metrics and there aren't a lot of true, 2 way Centers in this league in their prime like Hibbert. Batum's deal is high for me though. Good player, not that good. Closer to an Ariza than an all star SF.

Batum seems like the only really bad deal of the bunch to me as well...although I would not risk a max contract on Hibbert at this point either. His production last year maybe deserves it but I just don't know if the consitency will be there.

The Pistons will face this situation next year. Do you overpay for lesser free agents when you can't get the big names? After what happened with BG and CV, I hope we learned our lesson.

**TigersSlappy** · 07-02-2012, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

Do you overpay for lesser free agents when you can't get the big names? After what happened with BG and CV, I hope we learned our lesson.

It seems the better place to be in is cap flexibility, getting given valuable assets to help out a team that's stuck.

**DrWho17** · 07-02-2012, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by TigersSlappy

It seems the better place to be in is cap flexibility, getting given valuable assets to help out a team that's stuck.

Yea, maybe a team will trade a bad contract and a #1 pick to them, wait.

**Nastradamus** · 07-02-2012, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

Batum seems like the only really bad deal of the bunch to me as well...although I would not risk a max contract on Hibbert at this point either. His production last year maybe deserves it but I just don't know if the consitency will be there.

The Pistons will face this situation next year. Do you overpay for lesser free agents when you can't get the big names? After what happened with BG and CV, I hope we learned our lesson.

I get what you are saying, but IMO, Hibbert is not in the class of Gordon or Villanueva any more than he is the category of Lebron or Dwight Howard.

**DaBishop** · 07-02-2012, 03:27 PM

For a good price, I'd be happy with Beasley...this is the kinda move we made to get guys like Hamilton and Billups, underperforming high picks.

**mickeyb105** · 07-02-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by DaBishop

For a good price, I'd be happy with Beasley...this is the kinda move we made to get guys like Hamilton and Billups, underperforming high picks.

I completely agree with this.

Maybe the Ukranian monster we just signed will have an Okur-ish impact for us, sans the three-point shooting?

**Hart** · 07-02-2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

I get what you are saying, but IMO, Hibbert is not in the class of Gordon or Villanueva any more than he is the category of Lebron or Dwight Howard.

True. All I am saying is I would not give him a max contract. I don't see him as one of the top 2 players on a championship team.

**TigersSlappy** · 07-02-2012, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Yea, maybe a team will trade a bad contract and a #1 pick to them, wait.

LOL - Exactly, it would nice to be the receivers next time not the givers.

**Buddha** · 07-03-2012, 12:31 AM

WTF is New Jersey thinking?

**Dawgs** · 07-03-2012, 07:53 AM

The Pistons will just stand pat in FA this season. They got some good looking young players that need to continue to develop. And in Drummonds case, show hes got the drive and the motor to be successful at the NBA level. At this point next year, when there is a more attractive FA market, they should have a better feel for what is needed to get them into the upper echelon.

**Dawgs** · 07-03-2012, 07:56 AM

One nice thing about the way they are built at the moment, if things continue to go well in developing thier bigs, is that its much easier to find quality wing scorers in FA or through trade.

**Fool Inc.** · 07-03-2012, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

WTF is New Jersey thinking?

Don't know, but what I really want to know is "what the hell is Utah thinking"!?

**DetroitCity313** · 07-03-2012, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

No on Kaman. Terrible defender, always injured, will be overpaid. If he wants to take a 2/8 deal to come off the bench we can talk maybe.

I agree. Kaman will not help this team right now, especially at the price he will probably catch in the open market. Lets just run with Monroe, Drummond and our new international prospect at center. If we need a vet, find one for a minimum one year deal.

**DetroitCity313** · 07-03-2012, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dawgs

The Pistons will just stand pat in FA this season. They got some good looking young players that need to continue to develop. And in Drummonds case, show hes got the drive and the motor to be successful at the NBA level. At this point next year, when there is a more attractive FA market, they should have a better feel for what is needed to get them into the upper echelon.

Exactly. Give Knight, Stuckey, Singler, Jerebko, Monroe, Drummond, English, Kravtsov and Middleton minutes. Next year, let the contracts of guys like Maggette, Bynum and Maxiel expire, and hopefully get yourself another lottery player.

**DetroitCity313** · 07-03-2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Buddha

WTF is New Jersey thinking?

Looks like they are trying to gut their entire roster and go for Williams/Johnson/Wallace/Howard and scrubs. I don't know if that is enough to win a title, but they will be in the top 3 of the Eastern Conference if they just fill in the rest of the squad with half decent vets. If nothing else, I give their owner credit for not being afraid to make major moves and for not settling for mediocrity like many teams do year after year.

**jonjd** · 07-03-2012, 03:04 PM

Landry Fields might be the worst player in the NBA, but that doesn't stop Colangelo from giving him 3/20. Utterly ridiculous. And then there's the purported Nash deal. The man has gone crazy. Makes no sense.

**Buddha** · 07-03-2012, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Looks like they are trying to gut their entire roster and go for Williams/Johnson/Wallace/Howard and scrubs. I don't know if that is enough to win a title, but they will be in the top 3 of the Eastern Conference if they just fill in the rest of the squad with half decent vets. If nothing else, I give their owner credit for not being afraid to make major moves and for not settling for mediocrity like many teams do year after year.

It makes sense if they can get Howard. I figured they used up their cap space after they traded for Johnson and signed Wallace, but I guess not.

**Hart** · 07-03-2012, 07:08 PM

Hollinger suggested Atlanta could be putting themselves in position for a Howard, Paul, and Smith big three. Howard and Smith are from Atlanta...Paul supposedly wanted to play there coming out of college. To do this, they would have to trade Al Horford. I would love to bring him to Detroit.

**Hart** · 07-03-2012, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Exactly. Give Knight, Stuckey, Singler, Jerebko, Monroe, Drummond, English, Kravtsov and Middleton minutes. Next year, let the contracts of guys like Maggette, Bynum and Maxiel expire, and hopefully get yourself another lottery player.

Yeah...we could be set up very nicely going into next offseason with cap room and 4 lottery picks in a row. My only wish is that Stuckey and/or Prince get traded. Does anybody really see Stuckey as a starting two guard in this league? I do think he would make an ideal third guard if he is willing to accept that role.

**Betrayer** · 07-04-2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hart

Does anybody really see Stuckey as a starting two guard in this league?

In the league? Sure. But not on a contending playoff team unless he's next to one or more All Stars at the 3-5 position.

**Nastradamus** · 07-04-2012, 10:32 AM

Stuckey is a pretty high quality starting 2 guard IMO. Not a star, but right there in the next group.

Starting 2 guards with a better PER - Wade,Manu,Kobe,Johnson and HArden. There's a gap for sure, but Stuckey is next fwiw. Just saying, finding an upgrade is no easy task even if you are a Stuckey hater.

**DaBishop** · 07-04-2012, 11:34 AM

Honestly, as bad a job as Dumars did from 2008-10, I think he's done a really solid job over the past year and a half. Signing Frank, drafting Monroe, Knight and Drummond. Buying out Rip, trading Gordon (which will be even better if we end up with either a top 10 pick next year or lose a bottom 10 pick...11-14 pick or losing a 15-19 pick will suck although they are saying so far that next years draft will be weak). There's certainly no certainty but there seems to be a real solid plan that I don't think you can argue with.

Stuckey is a fine piece of a puzzle in my opinion. now we just need the rest of the pieces to fit in.

**DetroitCity313** · 07-04-2012, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Stuckey is a pretty high quality starting 2 guard IMO. Not a star, but right there in the next group.

Starting 2 guards with a better PER - Wade,Manu,Kobe,Johnson and HArden. There's a gap for sure, but Stuckey is next fwiw. Just saying, finding an upgrade is no easy task even if you are a Stuckey hater.

Agreed. For nearly all of his career Stuckey has been asked to play out of position. Since the team imploded, he has been playing with average to below average talent and has never had consistency from a head coach. He is no Kobe, he is no Wade. But he can contribute to a team and be a steady player if there is a good PG and supporting pieces around him. We have to accept Stuckey for the player he is and try to put him (and the rest of the guys) in a position to succeed.

That is why I am so hopeful for this team. Monroe has also been playing out of position. If Drummond can develop into a good starting center, Monroe will be that much better when he can slide to PF.

**Hart** · 07-04-2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Betrayer

In the league? Sure. But not on a contending playoff team unless he's next to one or more All Stars at the 3-5 position.

If he is starting, I want him as the 4th (at most) best player in the starting lineup. I would much rather have the Pistons have a shooting guard who can shoot and play defense while giving up the ball handling skills Stuckey has.

**Hart** · 07-04-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Stuckey is a pretty high quality starting 2 guard IMO. Not a star, but right there in the next group.

Starting 2 guards with a better PER - Wade,Manu,Kobe,Johnson and HArden. There's a gap for sure, but Stuckey is next fwiw. Just saying, finding an upgrade is no easy task even if you are a Stuckey hater.

I don't consider myself a hater. I have defended him many times on this board. But I think with Knight and Monroe now, Stuckey's strengths do not play to the core of the team, unless you put him in the 6th man role. He needs the ball in his hands to really be at his best. He does not move well without the ball or shoot it well, which hurts guys like Monroe and Knight...who are more fundamentally sound players.

Edit: When you take age and upside into consideration, there are other shooting guards I like more than him besides the five you mentioned.

**Casimir** · 07-04-2012, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitCity313

Exactly. Give Knight, Stuckey, Singler, Jerebko, Monroe, Drummond, English, Kravtsov and Middleton minutes. Next year, let the contracts of guys like Maggette, Bynum and Maxiel expire, and hopefully get yourself another lottery player.

I have a completely uneducated opinion on all of this, but....

I would like to see the youngsters play and see what the team has. Why not? Monroe and Stuckey are nice pieces. Knight has just gotten through his rookie season. Its not a big 3 as is the rage in the NBA these days, but I don't think that that method is the end all be all. And if you don't have a big 3, you either find a big 3 or find other ways to become competitive.

Drummond is extremely intriguing to me. I know his work ethic is in question. Is this a well documented fact from his season in college or is this more from how he looks on the court? If its the latter, is it one of those situations where the eyes can be a bit deceptive regarding looking at how much effort a player is putting out? In other words, are some plays/movements natural enough to Drummon that he looks effortless, and because he's a tall body, that can be a bit magnified to the eye?

I don't see how Kaman fits on the team and in the past I would've liked to see him on the team. I do think I'd prefer not count on Drummond playing starters' minutes necessarily, but then with the acquisition of Kratsov, that might be the Pistons' thinking already? Of course, if he shows no signs of rookie wall or any of that sort of deal and he's earning the minutes, then by all means, you play Drummond.

**Nastradamus** · 07-04-2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Hart

I don't consider myself a hater. I have defended him many times on this board. But I think with Knight and Monroe now, Stuckey's strengths do not play to the core of the team, unless you put him in the 6th man role. He needs the ball in his hands to really be at his best. He does not move well without the ball or shoot it well, which hurts guys like Monroe and Knight...who are more fundamentally sound players.

Edit: When you take age and upside into consideration, there are other shooting guards I like more than him besides the five you mentioned.

Sure, but can we get those guys? Does that push him out of say, the top 10? Is it reasonable to expect a top 10 SG to be a bench piece for us? You don't want any slashing types on the floor with Monroe/Drummond? WHy not? I think that's huge in today's NBA and Stuckey is one of the best at getting to the line, and converting.

**Hart** · 07-04-2012, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Sure, but can we get those guys? Does that push him out of say, the top 10? Is it reasonable to expect a top 10 SG to be a bench piece for us? You don't want any slashing types on the floor with Monroe/Drummond? WHy not? I think that's huge in today's NBA and Stuckey is one of the best at getting to the line, and converting.

I don't mind a slashing type. I just don't want somebody who dominates the ball as much as Stuckey (unless it is a big time star) and cannot shoot.

Stuckey does give you the value of getting to the line a lot. I would love him as a 6th man. But we are paying him a lot of money to be a 6th man. The guy I would be targeting is James Harden on a max contract next offseason. I would imagine he will get this offer from a few teams but maybe we can lure him to Detroit. Otherwise, I would not mind taking a flyer on Demar DeRozan, who is more of a conventional two guard than Stuckey, and potential breakout player at some point.

Edit: I know DeRozan is not a good three point shooter right now but he is excellent from mid range. He has a lot of holes but he also has the potential of somebody I think might be worth taking a flyer on.

**Hart** · 07-04-2012, 08:47 PM

Nash to the Lakers...this offseason gets more and more interesting. If the Lakers can do Bynum for Howard, I think the have the best team in basektball. Elite offensive point guard. Elite defensive center. And Kobe/Gasol next to them.