Pistons Offseason

**Deleterious** · 05-26-2011, 02:46 PM

I have hesitated to start this with the probable lockout. Hard to talk about who to spend the MLE on if we don't even know there will be an MLE. But oh well.

Salary cap situation is $47M committed next year. With cap holds their cap number is $78M currently.

Free agents are Prince, Stuckey, Wilcox, Summers, Jerebko, and McGrady.

**T&P_Fan** · 05-26-2011, 03:49 PM

I have to imagine Stuckey will be re-signed, Joe wont want to cut ties with him. Looking forward to a healthy Jerebko. Cant imagine we will be seeing Tay, T-Mac, Summers or Wilcox again.

**Nastradamus** · 05-26-2011, 04:12 PM

TMac and Prince are probably gone, but I'm not ruling out one of them being back. Joe likes Tay and we are thin at SF. I don't think they are sold on Daye. Regardless of my own opinion, it seems as if they plan to play Jerebko as more of a 4. Maybe not though, who knows.

I'm not going to rule out Wilcox being back. He was quite good for us. If he goes, we'll haev to sign a similar depth type veteran big anyways. Don't overpay him if his play for us gets him a multi year deal though. His athleticism as a backup C/PF is a nice compliment to what we have there.

Summers is probably gone or back as a cheap 12th man. Not sure he's worth developing.

Stuckey will be kept pretty automatically. Though I'm VERY reluctant to count on it, he did show nice improvements the last quarter or so of the season, as a PG. Had some very good games as a playmaker/passer. I think he starts at PG next season. We'll upgrade the backup spot to put some pressure on him and to allow him to be the backup 2.

I'm assuming we draft an athletic 4, one way or another.

At that point, we're pretty much left with few options. Tweaks. Trade 1 or 2 of Ben/Rip/Charlie for whatever you can get. All you will be offered is other bad contracts unless some team falls in love with one of them. Think Orlando and Turkgolu. Very unlikely scenario. Who we could get I'm not sure. Would you take on Gilbert Arenas for Ben and Charlie? What about Elton Brand? Joe Johnson(good player, but that contract...). Marvin Williams,Brendan Haywood, the aforementioned TUrkgolu,Al Jefferson, Emeka Okafor,Mike Miller, there are always guys teams are looking to dump. Whether we can make a deal work or not, I have no idea.

**drownwithyou** · 05-26-2011, 04:14 PM

Hopefully Charlie V goes all Ricky Williams and retires to smoke pot somewhere or something like that. Good riddance.

**T&P_Fan** · 05-26-2011, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Hopefully Charlie V goes all Ricky Williams and retires to smoke pot somewhere or something like that. Good riddance.

Speaking of, who does that? What a nice option to have, retire and smoke pot, weird guy that Ricky Williams. I like em though.

**drownwithyou** · 05-26-2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Speaking of, who does that? What a nice option to have, retire and smoke pot, weird guy that Ricky Williams. I like em though.

Really, really weird. I'm still only halfway through Run Ricky Run, but it is really interesting so far. Need to get back on an airplane so I can watch some of my ripped dvds.

**Nastradamus** · 05-26-2011, 04:36 PM

Yah, that was probably the most interesting of all the 30 for 30s.

He didn't really "retire to smoke pot", though he did smoke pot . He just had other things he wanted to do with his life at the time. He's a weird guy, but not a bad guy and not a crazy guy. Great teammate and super hard worker when he is in the league.

**drownwithyou** · 05-26-2011, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Yah, that was probably the most interesting of all the 30 for 30s.

He didn't really "retire to smoke pot", though he did smoke pot . He just had other things he wanted to do with his life at the time. He's a weird guy, but not a bad guy and not a crazy guy. Great teammate and super hard worker when he is in the league.

I don't think he's a bad guy, although from what I could tell I wish he would be a better father to his children.

**Nastradamus** · 05-26-2011, 05:27 PM

No doubt(though they do make points about him rectifying that situation in the doc), I criticize him for that as well. Bad move.

**drownwithyou** · 05-26-2011, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

No doubt(though they do make points about him rectifying that situation in the doc), I criticize him for that as well. Bad move.

Ah I must not be far enough in the doc. Growing up without a father is awful, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Sorry I derailed the thread with my comment. I haven't given the NBA much thought, I guess I should check out possible free agents and stuff.

**DetroitCity313** · 05-26-2011, 05:41 PM

Tay- Doubt he wants back. He has been wanting to escape from this situation for some time and you can bet contenders will be offering him contracts. I would be shocked to see him back unless we way over-pay for him, which I doubt.

Stuckey- He isn't a PG. We need a PG. But Joe will probably re-sign him just because he has limited options.

Wilcox- He is a solid backup big man. Wouldn't mind seeing him back for the right price.

Summers- Let him go

McGrady- Let him go

Jonas- Obviously have to re-sign.

**Hart** · 05-26-2011, 07:00 PM

If you haven't given up on Stuckey as a point guard yet, there is something wrong with you. However, with that said, I have come to the realization the Pistons cannot afford to lose him. He is still a pretty big talent IMO and our only hope is that things somehow click for him at some point in the next few years and he becomes the main star on this team.

**Hart** · 05-26-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

TMac and Prince are probably gone, but I'm not ruling out one of them being back. Joe likes Tay and we are thin at SF. I don't think they are sold on Daye. Regardless of my own opinion, it seems as if they plan to play Jerebko as more of a 4. Maybe not though, who knows.

I'm not going to rule out Wilcox being back. He was quite good for us. If he goes, we'll haev to sign a similar depth type veteran big anyways. Don't overpay him if his play for us gets him a multi year deal though. His athleticism as a backup C/PF is a nice compliment to what we have there.

Summers is probably gone or back as a cheap 12th man. Not sure he's worth developing.

Stuckey will be kept pretty automatically. Though I'm VERY reluctant to count on it, he did show nice improvements the last quarter or so of the season, as a PG. Had some very good games as a playmaker/passer. I think he starts at PG next season. We'll upgrade the backup spot to put some pressure on him and to allow him to be the backup 2.

I'm assuming we draft an athletic 4, one way or another.

At that point, we're pretty much left with few options. Tweaks. Trade 1 or 2 of Ben/Rip/Charlie for whatever you can get. All you will be offered is other bad contracts unless some team falls in love with one of them. Think Orlando and Turkgolu. Very unlikely scenario. Who we could get I'm not sure. Would you take on Gilbert Arenas for Ben and Charlie? What about Elton Brand? Joe Johnson(good player, but that contract...). Marvin Williams,Brendan Haywood, the aforementioned TUrkgolu,Al Jefferson, Emeka Okafor,Mike Miller, there are always guys teams are looking to dump. Whether we can make a deal work or not, I have no idea.

When you are in the Pistons situation, I think it makes a lot of sense to trade one bad contract for another, as long as you are not picking up extra years. I am not sure how many years Brand's deal has left but he is the guy most intriguing to me from the players you mentioned.

**Deleterious** · 05-27-2011, 10:11 AM

Some random thoughts.

Stuckey

Don't want him back, but probably stuck bringing him back. I think the best case scenario is signing him to his qualifying offer for 1 year and let him become an unrestricted free agent next year. Hopefully between now and then they can find a real PG and maybe trade him at the deadline.

If they go long term it better be like 4/$24M or 5/$30M. He will want Conley money but that is a bit much in my opinion. He isn't a terrible player, he just isn't a good PG. I admit part of that is due to constant coaching changes and lack of talented players around him. But I still don't ever see him being a guy that makes others around him better, and that should be the #1 goal of a PG.

Our Free Agents

McGrady and Summers gone. No reason at all to bring Summers back, he won't develop. I would rather go sign some DLeague guy and give him a shot as a cheap end of the bench guy.

Prince should be gone. If they can sign and trade him, great. But I think that is highly unlikely. I think he ends up with a contender for around the MLE which removes any type of sign and trade most likely.

Jerebko back, but cheap. Him getting hurt probably helped the Pistons in the long run. They will be able to get him much cheaper than if he had played last year and had done well. Something like 3/$12-15M.

Pretty ambivalent towards Wilcox. Injury prone and not really an impact player. Would take him back for 2/$6M but anything higher and I lose interest fast.

Free Agents

They need a PG and bigs. A SF maybe too.

Other than Andre Miller, I don't see one starting PG available in free agency. I don't see any reason they should go after an older player like Miller at this time.

Damn, the entire free agent class just sucks. Anyone decent enough to sign will cost too much for the Pistons. Depressing.

Kuester

Fired. Well, at least he should be. I still say they might bring him back because he is cheap ($1.5M). Plus with the lockout and new ownership, it will be an odd summer. Bringing him back another year would let Gores get familiar with things and then decide what he is doing with the GM. Then the new GM or Dumars can go get the coach he really wants next year. Still, he should be fired.

Dumars

My all time favorite player. But its time to go and let someone else run things. I have never been under the impression that Dumars really wanted to be a GM. I always thought he would retire and 25 years from now you would ask what is Joe up to? I think he is really loyal and took over because of how bad the organization was struggling at the time and he loved Mr D. Now that the Davidson family is out of the picture, it wouldn't shock me to see a presser this summer where Dumars says he is stepping down to spend more time with his family. That is 100% wild speculation on my part. I think Gores will bring him back at least another year if Joe wants it.

Draft

Biyombo or bust. Right now it looks like he might slide to the Pistons. But I imagine once he starts working out for teams his stock will rise. If he isn't around, it might be a good year to use the pick and entice another team to take one of our bad contracts. I know they need young talent but I just don't see much of it in this draft. Addition by subtraction.

Jeremy Tyler is my target in the 2nd round, but he probably wont be there. I would love for them to buy a pick in the bottom of the 1st round and target Darius Morris or Tyler.

**Betrayer** · 05-27-2011, 10:17 AM

1. Move a SG, preferably Gordon because his contract is worse.
2. Do not re-sign that other SG that Joe thinks is a PG.
3. If you find someone stupid enough to take that other SG that calls himself a PF, do it.
4. Find a PG.
5. Find a C.

This team needs to get back to controlling the paint. That means getting rid of soft players, adding tough ones, and also finding someone that can control the pace of the game.

**T&P_Fan** · 05-27-2011, 10:18 AM

Nice Del, I dont think you could have summed it up any better. I agree all all points. I guess what I am most interested in is what happens with Stuckey. If they only give him an qualifying offer than the message becomes clear: Stuckey isnt part of the long term plans, but if they do offer him a 4 year deal, that means they still think he can develop into what Joe thought he would be, a top pg in this league. Stuckey just isnt a pg, he is a 2 guard.

I guess it doesnt matter if we bring Kuester back or not, the team wont be good next season either and it would give Gores time to evaluate. I would like to see Joe D replaced though.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 05-27-2011, 10:34 AM

Jerebko for 5 mil a year? I don't believe Del said that.

Trade pick.
Hire new coach
New coach teaches PG to be a PG and not a SG
No Stuck
Trade Rip for another bad contract at a position of need
Trade Daye for late 1st, take project
If can't trade pick #8, think about Kahwi Leonard if Bigs are gone.

**Betrayer** · 05-27-2011, 10:35 AM

Del, I agree with most of your points, but I actually would take Andre Miller if - and that's a big if - the money was right. This team could use a veteran PG to help the development of Monroe, Daye, Jerebko, and our draft pick. Watching Stuckey drive 1 on 3 in the 4th quarter isn't helping them at all. Miller could hold down the fort, while we find a young guy to bring up behind him this year or next. He's an experienced PG that can run a team, control the pace, and bring some stability/leadership to that position. We desperately need that.

**Deleterious** · 05-27-2011, 10:45 AM

As much as I don't want Miller, I would take him for a year or two if it meant no Stuckey.

Miller has some value though, so he will probably be looking at contending teams only.

**T&P_Fan** · 05-27-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

As much as I don't want Miller, I would take him for a year or two if it meant no Stuckey.

Miller has some value though, so he will probably be looking at contending teams only.

Yeah, no way Miller would sign with a team like the Pistons. He can still run the point and limit turnovers. He is steady and crafty, he wont be looking to lose 50 games.

**Nastradamus** · 05-27-2011, 01:50 PM

I'm not sure we are a 50 game loser if we add Miller, a lottery pick and Jerebo to the roster. Hardly saying we are some sort of contender, but that's a solid team. I'd definitely add Miller for a year or 2 if it was reasonable. Also, what contender is looking for a PG like him? His savvy could help us a ton. Miller/Bynum at the point? Bynum needs more love, he's at least as good as a guy like kyle Lowry IMO.

Jerebko will likely play for the qualifying offer this year if the system is relatively the same. Unless another team offers a contract that we will match.

Possibly the same for Stuckey, but he'll likely get an offer, IMHO. He's probably too good to let go for ntohing, even if not a PG. OTOH its hard to pay him,Gordon and Rip. hopefully one is gone soon.

Someone said we need a C, but Monroe will hold down taht spot. A backup would be nic.e

**Betrayer** · 05-27-2011, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Someone said we need a C, but Monroe will hold down taht spot. A backup would be nic.e

I said it, and we do need a center. If you want to say that Monroe is the Center and that we need a PF, you're welcome to put it that way too. Either way, we need a rebounding, shot blocking, paint defender. Usually that's the guy you call your center. When we had Wallace and Wallace they switched off assignments depending upon the matchup, but technically Ben was considered the center and the "skills" guy was considered the PF. That seems to be the case on most teams, so that's the reason I'm calling it a center, but I'm fine with calling it a PF too.

And to tie this in to our other discussion, this is part of the reason that I want Jerebko at the 3 - to make room for a paint defender/rebounder like Biyombo next to Monroe.

**Nastradamus** · 05-27-2011, 03:30 PM

Agreed, I see it as a PF though. I say that because there are so many athletic PFs, but not just that, you have to be able to switch on to quicker guards in the pick and roll game. Monroe can't do that. He might be able to body up another C and play help D from the C spot though. But hey, put Biyombo next to Monroe and I don't care who you call what position.

Like i said though, Jerebko and Biyombo starting in the frontcourt leaves you pretty weak offensively. I think JJ either starts at the 4 to provide you with that pick and roll defense or backs up both F spots. His energy is valuable off the bench, against tired starters and overmatched bench guys.

**djhutch** · 05-28-2011, 06:58 AM

Andre Miller IS Stuckey, with better shooting touch & worse attitude. I think this team has all the attitude it can take right now.

**Buddha** · 05-28-2011, 01:25 PM

Stuckey is the most frustrating player on the team. I see flashes where he is getting past defenders, getting into the lane, and creating open shots for his teammates. But it's only flashes. Most of the time he's taking bad jumpers, dribbling too much, or driving out of control to the basket and taking ill-advised lay-ups.

Do the glimpses of talent justfy another year? Probably. Especially if he knows he's about to get P.A.I.D. if he can turn into a complete player.

I think they need a strong, respected coach or a strong leader as a player to get Stuckey to do what he needs to do. Once Chauncey left, and with only Flip Saunders and the rest of the whining, sulking Pistons around, Stuckey turned from a talented youngster into an entitled prima donna. Also, once Chauncey left Stuckey was taken from the role he is best at (change of pace scorer off the bench) and thrust into a role he isn't prepared to play (point guard leader who gets everyone involved in the offense). It's up to Joe and the coach to see that. The fact that they didn't leads me to believe Dumars is blinded by his loyalty to Stuckey.

I would hate to see them give up their pick because I think they can get a decent talent where they are. However, if they have to use that pick to move Rip Hamilton, by all means, trade the pick. They have to get Rip and Tayshaun off this team. They're poisoning it. And I doubt they get much of anything for Prince. I'd be stunned if they could do a sign and trade for him unless they're taking someone else's problem back in return.

Wilcox? Meh. Take him or leave him. He's just a warm body at this point. A warm body that plays really well once every ten days.

McGrady? Too old and not enough of a strong personality to will the team to win anything. Which is no surprise to anyone who has followed his career.

Jerebko? A must sign. Maybe with a new batch of players, his work ethic will rub off on some of them? Probably not considering he's a white kid from Sweden.

Prince? Please don't bring him back. He's still capable of being a solid NBA player with a decent outside shot and good post up game, but he's well past his prime as a defender, slows the game down way too much, and is a cancerous influence on this lockeroom. In another environment, he could be a good bench player, especially on a team that plays slow-it-down ball. But in Detroit, his time has come and gone.

Summers? Have a good time in Europe.

Free agents:

Interesting options that we might be able to afford:

Shane Battier (Dee-fense!)
Kris Humphries (only because he'll bring his wife's *** with him)
Earl Clark (cheap potential?)

Kuester: Has to be fired. Lost the team.

Dumars: Who knows how much he was handcuffed by prior ownership? However, I doubt anyone at ownership was holding a gun to his head and forcing him to sign Rip to that extension, give Gordon and Charlie V. long term deals, and hire Curry and Kuester. Gores will probably give him another year, but his inability to find a good coach or manage the cap has taken this team from one of the best organizations in the league to one of the worst.

If he stays or goes, it's not a big deal, IMO. I would be curious to see how he does with an owner who is actively engaged and willing to spend some cash. Then again, I'd also be interested to see how the Pistons would do with a new vision and new leadership at the top. I doubt Gores fires Dumars. If Joe wants to leave he can, but I bet he sticks around.

**drownwithyou** · 05-28-2011, 01:55 PM

From rotoworld:
Newly-hired Lakers coach Mike Brown has begun assembling his coaching staff, expressing interest in Hornets assistant Michael Malone and Pistons coach John Kuester.
There is a good chance that Kuester will be released by the Pistons this summer, at which point Brown seems eager to add him to the staff. Malone was the architect of Cleveland's defense during the years Brown coached the Cavs, and is largely responsible for vastly improving the Hornets' defense this year.

Good sign for the Pistons....

**Buddha** · 05-28-2011, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

From rotoworld:
Newly-hired Lakers coach Mike Brown has begun assembling his coaching staff, expressing interest in Hornets assistant Michael Malone and Pistons coach John Kuester.
There is a good chance that Kuester will be released by the Pistons this summer, at which point Brown seems eager to add him to the staff. Malone was the architect of Cleveland's defense during the years Brown coached the Cavs, and is largely responsible for vastly improving the Hornets' defense this year.

Good sign for the Pistons....

Does that mean Kuester will be installing the same intricate offense that he ran with the Cavs?

If so, the League better be ready for a lot of incredibly suprising Kobe Bryant clear outs!

**drownwithyou** · 05-28-2011, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

Does that mean Kuester will be installing the same intricate offense that he ran with the Cavs?

If so, the League better be ready for a lot of incredibly suprising Kobe Bryant clear outs!

I would hope that he'd be able to actually use the useful players the Lakers have (as opposed to the Cavs at the time), but Kuester's strategy and game planning doesn't seem to support that idea.

**Buddha** · 05-28-2011, 02:03 PM

Rumors are that there is a three team trade in the works involving the Cavs, TWolves, and Pistons that would net the Cavs the #1 and #2 picks in the draft.

Sorry if it's already been posted. Not sure what the trade would be.

**drownwithyou** · 05-28-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

Rumors are that there is a three team trade in the works involving the Cavs, TWolves, and Pistons that would net the Cavs the #1 and #2 picks in the draft.

Sorry if it's already been posted. Not sure what the trade would be.

Is this the trade where I've seen on twitter that the Pistons are going to trade Hamilton + #8 pick... for cap space?

**tigerkid23** · 05-28-2011, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Is this the trade where I've seen on twitter that the Pistons are going to trade Hamilton + #8 pick... for cap space?

Pretty much. The goal is to get rid of Rip's contract. Meh, I think I'd rather have the pick as I think we could get a pretty talented player at #8. Not a star, but definitely a guy who can start in this league.

**Deleterious** · 05-28-2011, 02:13 PM

Here is the trade Buddha is talking about.

Twitter

Cavs, Pistons, Twolves discussing 3-team trade that would give Cavs 1st & 2nd picks, sources say.

Cavs absorb Rip Hamilton into 14.6 mill trade exception & get Det's 8th pick. Cavs send 4th & 8th picks to Minny for 2nd pick

Cavs would then draft Kyrie No. 1 and Derrick Williams No. 2. Nothing imminent but trade us being discussed by the teams.

**drownwithyou** · 05-28-2011, 02:14 PM

What would Detroit get?

**Deleterious** · 05-28-2011, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

What would Detroit get?

Save $21M the next 2 years. Thats it so far.

**Buddha** · 05-28-2011, 02:18 PM

That trade actually makes sense for all three teams.

But it's a little hard to swallow that we have to trade a lottery pick to get rid of Rip.

And if that's the case, how can Dumars keep his job? He gave Rip that contract and now has to give up a lottery pick to get rid of him and gets NOTHING in return? Oy vey.

**pape06** · 05-28-2011, 02:19 PM

Maybe now people will stop talking as if Hamilton has any trade value at all.

**Buddha** · 05-28-2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by pape06

Maybe now people will stop talking as if Hamilton has any trade value at all.

If anything, he has negative value.

**Truth** · 05-28-2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Buddha

Does that mean Kuester will be installing the same intricate offense that he ran with the Cavs?

If so, the League better be ready for a lot of incredibly suprising Kobe Bryant clear outs!

I can just picture the look on Kobe, Artest and Odom's faces with Kuester in charge.

**Truth** · 05-28-2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by pape06

Maybe now people will stop talking as if Hamilton has any trade value at all.

Not at his contract no. So what though, neither do Gordon, CV or Maxiel. At least in Rip's case the Pistons are paying for past performance and contribution to their organization. With Gordon and the rest they are paying for Dumar's stupidity.