Pistons Offseason

**Deleterious** · 11-09-2011, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by EatEmUpTigers711

Saw this while I was looking for a list of the current player reps for all the teams, and came across a list of the most ridiculous reps....

"Austin Daye (rep), Detroit Pistons. In the Pistons' defense, Rip Hamilton would have simply tried to get all of the players to strike instead of submitting to a lockout."

Made me laugh, but sadly it's probably true...

That is funny for two reasons. First the Rip part is funny. Second, I saw 29 of 30 teams had their player rep at the meeting today. When I read that I wondered what slacker didn't show up. I guess the guy in Russia is the one haha.

**DTroppens** · 11-09-2011, 03:53 PM

For the first time since the strike, I'm starting to have that "Why aren't the Pistons on" urge. I guess my fall sports season is starting to end and I'm starting to realize that nothing is on.

**Deleterious** · 11-09-2011, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

For the first time since the strike, I'm starting to have that "Why aren't the Pistons on" urge. I guess my fall sports season is starting to end and I'm starting to realize that nothing is on.

Should get a decent idea of what will happen around 5 PM. That is the deadline the owners gave the players on the current offer. They said after that all future offers will be much worse for the players.

If nothing happens, expect games to be cancelled until at least Christmas. And the players will decertify the union which will take 2 months to do. So there is a good possibility we could lose the entire season.

**Deleterious** · 11-09-2011, 06:21 PM

Read on Twitter they have gone past the 5 PM deadline and have now ordered dinner.

**DTroppens** · 11-09-2011, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Should get a decent idea of what will happen around 5 PM. That is the deadline the owners gave the players on the current offer. They said after that all future offers will be much worse for the players.

If nothing happens, expect games to be cancelled until at least Christmas. And the players will decertify the union which will take 2 months to do. So there is a good possibility we could lose the entire season.

This may be the year I finally go check out an Oakland U game. I think about it every year and never do it. Maybe satisfy my hoops craving with a little Oakland U action.

**Nastradamus** · 11-10-2011, 12:21 PM

Oakland U is some pretty solid basketball, for that level at least. Worth going to a game for sure

I am seriously missing my NBA about now. Ready for some trades and signings followed by some quality b-ball. College is ok, but its not just not onthe same level for me. Feels closer to WNBA than NBA

**Deleterious** · 11-10-2011, 04:55 PM

Dave Checketts was on the radio and said they had a deal. Then said it will happen. Now people are saying progress has been made, but no deal.

DTroppens. Go check out a Mott game sometime. They are always one of the top CC teams in the country.

**ScrubBeaterUpper** · 11-10-2011, 05:38 PM

Oh for Christs sake, let's get this going NOW.

**Nastradamus** · 11-11-2011, 11:53 AM

I feel like they are close, though there is still a chance they blow it. 72 games would be a massive victory though IMO. Its stupid if either side won't sign at this point, with a tweak here or there maybe.

**DrWho17** · 11-11-2011, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Truth

The funny thing is that I don't hold Rip's attitude against him. He's been a champion as a college and professional player. He signed an extension based on the Pistons as continued contenders. Instead Dumars trades Billups for the cancerous Iverson and hires two clowns to be the head coach. Rip showed emotion while the team fell off a cliff. So what? He took losing personally, isn't that a good thing? Isn't it better than the cool, indifference Gordon showed while regressing?

That's how I feel too, Hamilton has had good reason to do what he's done, he's better then Ben Gordon in all aspects of his game too, except jumpshooting. Once the circus act stops he would be fine. I mean Tayshaun Prince joined the griping last year, it has to be really bad for him to speak out, he had been one of the most professionals in the league. 6 years of Flip and the clown coaches is enough to make anybody crazed.

**DrWho17** · 11-11-2011, 12:07 PM

Well, the thing is the players need to accept this stuff fast before it gets worse for them. How many players are already on the verge of bankruptcy because they've missed this long? Half the league may be busted if it goes much further, and those guys are at some point going to push for any deal.

**Deleterious** · 11-11-2011, 03:26 PM

@RicBucher

New proposal would allow teams to send players to NBDL first 5 years of career and reduce pay to pro-rated 75K. Talk about non-starters.

**DTroppens** · 11-12-2011, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Dave Checketts was on the radio and said they had a deal. Then said it will happen. Now people are saying progress has been made, but no deal.

DTroppens. Go check out a Mott game sometime. They are always one of the top CC teams in the country.

I don't know why, but watching Mott basketball doesn't thrill me. I have covered some community college level games before and seen strong Mott teams in the past. I don't know why, but I didn't find it that exciting.

**Nastradamus** · 11-13-2011, 01:21 PM

Its too bad it has come to this. I feel like if the owners would just give a little at the end here the deal would be done. The players have basically said they'll take 50-51 percent about, its just a few details. The NBDL nonsense that was posted is one thing. Especially since it includes a 20 year age limit. If you are going to make guys wait to come, they have to be on real contracts when they get there. Otherwise go back to 18 and you can maybe have such a clause.

Honestly, getting over 5% back in revenue, some proper revenue sharing and, as a friend suggested to me recently, the elimination of the draft lottery would more than make things fair both financially and competitively. No team should be making less than aboug 20 mil profit per year with such a deal based on what we know right now. The owners are being stubborn and trying to use their leverage to squeeze the players. I like that they are holding strong. Show that they don't have the leverage they think. Let them lose a ton of money on stadium leases and lack of revenue in general. Hey, if you were losing money anyways, it won't matter right, you're better off not playing? Yah right

**Deleterious** · 11-14-2011, 02:01 PM

@WojYahooNBA

Players reject deal, and will file anti-trust action against the NBA.

**Nastradamus** · 11-14-2011, 02:20 PM

****in' owners got greedy. I hate the idea of losing the season, but the players absolutely positively have no other choice. The owners had leverage, they got a TON of givebacks and could have gotten a really nice deal out of all this. Now they got too greedy, started making extreme ultimatums and the players told them to F off. They are going to lose 100s of millions over this and I'm glad. Its too bad really but I'm glad the players didn't accept and hope they hold strong.

**T&P_Fan** · 11-14-2011, 02:31 PM

So there goes the season?

**Deleterious** · 11-14-2011, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

So there goes the season?

Most likely. Billy Hunter said its possible they could have a decision on the lawsuit within 60 days. That would put them in the middle of January. In 98-99 they had a 50 game season that started on Feb 5th. So not all hope is lost, but the odds of no season went up quite a bit.

**tigerz** · 11-14-2011, 04:39 PM

I don't think lawsuit decision = season on. I am waiting for someone to write the definitive dercert article but from what I have gleaned from the history of NFL de-certifications seems that could just be a judgement to pay players that were harmed from restricting trade. It doesn't seem like Judge Doty (who it seems like would handle the anti-trust side) will do anything drastic, like abolish the salary cap or impose an injunction. I think the best a lawsuit can do is put pressure on the owners to come back to the table. Problem I see is many owners legitimately have losses, even if they lose they may just appeal decision and keep lockout going until the players break.

Ed. I am wrong...the lawsuit Hunter is talking about would be for injunction and lockout declared illegal. It wouldn't be Doty. But even if the players won an injunction, it would be appealed, like the NFL did.

**Deleterious** · 11-14-2011, 09:03 PM

The players did not decertify the union. Here is a good article that explains it.

Sports law expert explains what a ‘disclaimer of interest’ is – Orlando Magic BasketBlog – Orlando Sentinel

**DTroppens** · 11-15-2011, 05:04 PM

It's kind of like the NFL lock out. I don't really want to get messed into all the legal stuff this or that. Just tell me when you find it important to play the game you are adequately paid to play or adequately compensated for (whether it be directly or indirectly) for owning a team.

I'm kind of getting antsy to want to see some games. I think it's just in your body seeing what time of year it is and you "know what you do" at this time.

I know one thing - My wife is enjoying the lockout. Although it always seemed she could find something of trivial interest with a Pistons' game moreso than other sports.

I thought the Pistons being off would make me kind of go back to the Wings again, like I was a Wings fan 15 years ago. So far, it hasn't.

**Deleterious** · 11-16-2011, 11:24 AM

It will be interesting to see what this does to Stuckey. Ken Berger said contracts continue to run, even if the season is lost. He got the qualifying offer which locked him up for this season. But with no new contract, he would be unrestricted next year.

This is also huge for teams like Orlando and New Jersey. They needed this past summer and the trade deadline to impress Howard and Williams. Both guys are set to become unrestricted free agents this summer. Imagine losing your franchise player and not even have the trade deadline to move him for some picks or something. Brutal.

**Hart** · 11-16-2011, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

It will be interesting to see what this does to Stuckey. Ken Berger said contracts continue to run, even if the season is lost. He got the qualifying offer which locked him up for this season. But with no new contract, he would be unrestricted next year.

This is also huge for teams like Orlando and New Jersey. They needed this past summer and the trade deadline to impress Howard and Williams. Both guys are set to become unrestricted free agents this summer. Imagine losing your franchise player and not even have the trade deadline to move him for some picks or something. Brutal.

Any idea what would happen with the lottery? No matter what happens, with no season the Pistons probably get screwed because we probably would have been one of the 5 worst teams in basketball this year. Even playing a 50 game season would help our cause in a loaded draft.

Just to throw my 2 cents in on the amnesty clause, I would hope we cut Ben Gordon. He makes 4 million more per year than CV, which is a good chunk of change. Both are not part of the solution so we should not worry about who has more value to the team. Use the amnesty clause on Gordon and cut Villanueva and just eat the money.

**Deleterious** · 11-17-2011, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hart

Any idea what would happen with the lottery? No matter what happens, with no season the Pistons probably get screwed because we probably would have been one of the 5 worst teams in basketball this year. Even playing a 50 game season would help our cause in a loaded draft.

Just to throw my 2 cents in on the amnesty clause, I would hope we cut Ben Gordon. He makes 4 million more per year than CV, which is a good chunk of change. Both are not part of the solution so we should not worry about who has more value to the team. Use the amnesty clause on Gordon and cut Villanueva and just eat the money.

There is no answer for that yet, just a lot of speculation. A lot of people are suggesting they use the same method the NHL used after its lockout.

If NBA loses full season, what might next draft look like? | ProBasketballTalk

The NHL elected to use a lottery and cooked up a creative solution. The amount of lottery balls a team had was based on two criteria: the number of times a team made the playoffs the last three seasons and the number of times a team had drafted No. 1 in the previous three drafts. Using that model, four teams (the New York Rangers, Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Columbus) each had three of the 48 balls in the bin. Ten teams had two balls and 16 had one.

**Deleterious** · 11-17-2011, 11:41 AM

A team in China has some interest in Stuckey.

American basketball players flocking to China

Including Yi, the defending champions have eight national team players and a number of national youth team players. Their only American player for now is James Singleton, but the club is contacting Rodney Stuckey and Delonte West, one of whom may come to China, sources told me.

**Deleterious** · 11-18-2011, 10:40 AM

Good article talking about free agency if the season is lost. There will be tons of talent available if that happens. For one, it was going to be a pretty good class anyway. But then you add in the players that would have been free agents this year and it gets really deep.

The (second) greatest free-agency class ever - CBSSports.com

**DTroppens** · 11-18-2011, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Good article talking about free agency if the season is lost. There will be tons of talent available if that happens. For one, it was going to be a pretty good class anyway. But then you add in the players that would have been free agents this year and it gets really deep.

The (second) greatest free-agency class ever - CBSSports.com

If you snapped your fingers and had an expansion team, you could make a few pretty darn good teams with that selection of players.

**Deleterious** · 11-24-2011, 01:05 AM

Talks have resumed with the hope of getting a deal done this weekend. They would play a 66 game season starting on Christmas day.

Talks resume; is there time? - CBSSports.com

**DTroppens** · 11-25-2011, 01:12 PM

Talks have started within my head about going to the Oakland U vs. Western Michigan game, I think it is Dec. 23rd.

**Deleterious** · 11-27-2011, 03:08 AM

Early estimates are the salary cap will be about $58M this year. Pistons without cap holds are at $50M right now. With cap holds of people I think will/could be back they are at $63.2M. The people I include on that list are Stuckey, Wilcox, and Jerebko. If you include Prince that number jumps to $80M.

ShamSports.com: Explanation of what the free agents cap holds page is all about

Question: What is a cap hold and why may I want to ask that?

Answer: Your team's free agents have what is called a "cap hold." This is an amount of money that is charged to your team's salary cap number, even though the player isn't under contract. This is a deliberate ploy that exists to close a loophole; if cap holds didn't exist, it's theoretically possible for a team to have its entire roster become free agents at the same time, have their entire cap to spend on other team's free agents, and then use Bird rights to re-sign their own ones afterwards. And that would be disingenuous. This way, your free agents eat into your cap room, forcing you to prioritise a bit better. And the players below have cap holds (also known as "free agent amounts") that have not yet been renounced, making them technically interesting. Technically.

They could lower those numbers if they decide to use the amnesty clause on someone.

**Deleterious** · 11-27-2011, 11:09 AM

Committee could study NBA draft rule - NBA - Yahoo! Sports

One-and-done looks like it will stay through the 2012 draft. That would be good news since they have a good shot at being a lottery team again.

**drownwithyou** · 11-27-2011, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

They could lower those numbers if they decide to use the amnesty clause on someone.

Crossing my fingers for Charlie V....

**Nastradamus** · 11-27-2011, 12:32 PM

With how close up against that cap we are, I think I hope we amnesty Ben. That 11 mil will give us some serious breathing room and Charlie can probably be dealt for an expiring, letting us out of his deal a few years early. That would be a huge combination of moves IMO. Rip comes off sooner than Ben and Rips a good fit in Frank's offense from what I hear.

**Deleterious** · 11-27-2011, 12:33 PM

New MLE details.

If you are under the luxury tax, you can pay $5M per year for four years. If you are over the luxury tax you can pay $3M per year for four years. Notice that is the luxury tax, not salary cap.

**T&P_Fan** · 11-27-2011, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

With how close up against that cap we are, I think I hope we amnesty Ben. That 11 mil will give us some serious breathing room and Charlie can probably be dealt for an expiring, letting us out of his deal a few years early. That would be a huge combination of moves IMO. Rip comes off sooner than Ben and Rips a good fit in Frank's offense from what I hear.

The more I look at our cap situation the more it makes sense to amnesty Ben Gordon if no one will take him via a trade. I am fine with Rip for another year or two.

**Nastradamus** · 11-27-2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Deleterious

New MLE details.

If you are under the luxury tax, you can pay $5M per year for four years. If you are over the luxury tax you can pay $3M per year for four years. Notice that is the luxury tax, not salary cap.

great compromise IMO

**Deleterious** · 11-30-2011, 12:45 PM

2011 NBA Free Agency Buzz 11.30.11 - CBSSports.com

On WEEI in Boston, Jackie MacMullen of ESPN.com and a longtime Celtics writer said that Glen Davis drove the Celtics "crazy" by continuously missing fitness guidelines and chasing stats to help his contract versus the team. All of this leads her to the conclusion he won't be re-signed by the Celtics. Not a huge shocker, considering the way Davis' season ended, but it will make him one of the mid-level free agents on the market. His weight is a long-term issue, but he's also an exteremely capable defender and a player who can finish around the basket. He'll get offers. (HT: RedsArmy)

Possible Piston target?

**Deleterious** · 11-30-2011, 03:03 PM

@vgoodwill

Source: #Pistons have no plans on using amnesty clause at this time...

**tigerz** · 11-30-2011, 03:33 PM

This actually makes a lot of sense. They are in cost cutting mode right now, they almost traded their lottery pick to dump Hamilton's salary. Cutting a guy when you still have to pay him so you can sign another guy to fill that slot is a move for teams ready to compete, not the Pistons.

**Nastradamus** · 11-30-2011, 04:45 PM

The only way its worth it is if you sign Nene or something major like that, though I guess I'd at least have liked to see them amnesty Maxiell or something.

BBD could be an ok fit, but unless he's super cheap, we have too many middling PFs and his weight concerns me as does his attitude. He was a steal as a 2nd rounder, as a guy on an MLE he's no steal at the least.