2010 NBA Trade Deadline

[Deleterious]

What: 2010 NBA Trade Deadline

When: 3 P.M. ET February 18, 2010.

With teams jockeying for maximum cap space for the 2010 free agent class, things could get interesting this year at the trade deadline.

Some teams are rumored to be having a fire sale. Some teams just want to move guys that don't contribute anymore. Others want to move disgruntled superstars with massive contracts. Of course you will also have your contenders who are looking to add that final piece.

Anyway, use this thread to post ideas/rumors/thoughts or anything else related to trades or the deadline. Here are some tools to help people:

ShamSports.com: NBA Salaries index

RealGM: Trade Checker

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

[Deleterious]

5 NBA Players Most Likely To Be Moved | Dime Magazine (www.dimemag.com) : Daily NBA News, NBA Trades, NBA Rumors, Basketball Videos, Sneakers

5 NBA Players Most Likely To Be Moved

By Gerald Narciso

We already saw one trade go down this past week when the Jazz sent rookie Eric Maynor to the Thunder. With the new year just around the corner, expect trade talks to really pick up between now and the February 18 trade deadline. Trade rumors around the web and in newspapers have already started to gain momentum this week. Players like Tracy McGrady, Kevin Martin, Eddy Curry and Tyrus Thomas are just a few of the names that have been thrown out.

While Monta Ellis getting moved or the Kings parting with Martin is extremely unlikely (even with the rise of Tyreke Evans), other trade rumors have more credibility behind them. Here are five players who could legitimately have new addresses in the coming weeks.

1. Tracy McGrady (Rockets): This weekend, the Tracy McGrady marriage with the Rick Adelman and the Rockets went from rocky to irreconcilable. It’s clear that the Rockets have zero plans to play T-Mac and would want nothing more than to have him gone. McGrady has been sent home indefinitely and now team officials are pondering what the next move is. Currently, T-Mac is the highest paid player in the NBA at just over $23 million, but his contract expires after the season. The Rockets would love to try to trade him and get a player that could mix in with Houston’s young core and help them in the upcoming playoffs. The Knicks are rumored to be the most interested in McGrady. If the Rockets would be willing to take on either Jared Jeffries or Eddy Curry’s contract, this would be something the Knicks could pull the trigger on. Chicago is another team who might be intrigued by McGrady’s expiring contract.

2. Nate Robinson (Knicks): Whether it’s personal or just business, Mike D’Antoni is not playing Nate Robinson and it’s looking like he won’t be doing so anytime soon. The Knicks are on a little roll and it seems like D’Antoni has found a rotation that he’s comfortable with using. New York’s Christmas day game against the Heat marked the 11th straight game Nate has not logged a single minute and it couldn’t have come at a worse time for the 5-9 former slam dunk champion. Robinson’s career is at a crossroads. After a summer where he received zero interest despite averaging over 17 ppg in ‘08-09, imagine how interest he’ll garner not playing at all? His agents are in crisis mode as they are pressuring the Knicks to either play him or trade him. With his one-year, $4 million contract only counting for about half at $2 million in a trade, it wouldn’t be a huge financial risk for other teams to take a chance on Robinson – even with his defensive and maturity issues. Teams like Orlando and Houston could use Nate’s explosive scoring off the bench.

3. Tyrus Thomas (Bulls): Things aren’t working in Chicago and management is going to have to make some tough decisions soon. There’s talk that Vinny Del Negro could be gone as soon as today. The Bulls also have a logjam at the power forward slot. The team seems to be high on rookies Taj Gibson and James Johnson and are unlikely to unload Joakim Noah, who is currently second in the NBA in rebounds. That leaves Thomas as possibly, the odd man out. Thomas is due for an extension this summer and the Bulls are trying to leave as much cap room as possible to sign one or two of the A-list free agents available this summer. Thomas could be a good fit for Portland, who are in desperate need for size, but may not have the right bargaining chips for the Bulls. The Knicks have also been reportedly interested in the athletic power forward.

4. Anthony Randolph (Warriors): There’s a fire sale going on in the Bay and almost nobody on that roster is untouchable. Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins and Corey Maggette might be harder to move given the size and length of their contracts. Randolph is a guy with a lot of talent and potential. While he’s had some good moments in Golden State, he hasn’t been the beast they were hoping he was going to be this season. Throwing in Randolph into a trade, could make it easier for the Warriors to unload Ellis or Maggette. Toronto, Utah, Houston, New York, Washington and New Orleans are just a few of the teams that could make a run at the 20-year-old forward out of LSU.

5. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cavs): Ever since Shaq came into town in the summer, Big Z’s name has been thrown around in the rumor mill. At 34-years old and being injury prone, it’s doubtful that the Cavs would have interest in re-signing Ilgauskas. His expiring contract and ability to contribute right away makes him an attractive target for other teams. Plus, the Cavs are more in need of a shooting guard than an inside presence. Obviously with Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla out for the year, Portland would be an ideal destination for Ilgauskas. Golden State and Washington could also be interested in the long-time Cavs center.

[Betrayer]

Nate Robinson, so we can have another shooting guard in a point guard's body. Can't have enough of those.

[Deleterious]

This is not a rumor or anything I have heard anyone talking about. Just something I have been thinking about.

Cleveland Gets:

Rip Hamilton
Kwame Brown

Detroit Gets:

Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Delonte West
JJ Hickson

The trade works.

Why Cleveland does it: Cleveland still craves that consistent second scorer to compliment James. Yes, Williams was an all start last year. But in the playoffs and more specifically against Orlando, he was erratic as a scorer. He put up decent point totals, but shot 38% in doing so.

Rip is one of the most consistent scorers in the league. In the past 5 years he has played in 235 games where he played at least 30 minutes. Of those 235 games he has only scored less than 10 points 6 times. He has scored less than 14 points only 31 times. To put that in some perspective, last year alone Mo Williams played in 70 games where he played more than 30 minutes. 4 times he was under 10 points and 18 times he was under 14. Williams will still be a big threat even with Rip on the team. But Rip will ease the pain when Williams has an off night.

Losing Hickson will hurt Cleveland. But Powe is about to come back from injury and could step into Hicksons spot. Delonte West is a freaking nutjob and I imagine Cleveland wouldn't mind seeing him somewhere else.

Why Detroit does it: Three reasons. Alleviates the logjam at SG. Cap space. JJ Hickson.

Cap space is the big reason for this deal. Brown and West both make about the same amount and both expire this summer. So they cancel each other out. But Rip has 3 years left on his deal, where Ilgauskas expires this summer. So the Pistons would get out from under Rips deal and get about $10 million in cap space.

I have zero interest in Ilgauskas or West ever playing for Detroit. Neither one would ever set foot in the city as I would instantly buy both out. So you could give Cleveland a wink and a nod about Ilgauskas being bought out if they wanted him back in 30 days.

Hickson is the other reason. A 21 year old PF with potential upside on a very cheap contract for the next few years. This is exactly the type of player Detroit needs to acquire. Young, cheap, with potential talent and does most of his work around the rim. If he works out then fantastic. If not, it cost them almost nothing to find out.

I know people will say not to help out a divisional rival. I agree most of the time. But the Pistons are not competing with the Cavs. By the time the Pistons are ready to compete, Rip wont be a main player anymore so who really cares.

[Buddha]

Houston:

Rip and Tay for McGrady.

Sactown:

Tayshaun for Kenny Thomas and Spencer Hawes.

Dallas:

Rip for Josh Howard.

Clippers:

Tayshaun for Chris Kamen

[Deleterious]

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Hornets Will Be Forced To Move West?

Hornets Will Be Forced To Move West?

Some NBA executives believe that the Hornets may not be able to avoid dealing away David West before the February 18 trade deadline. Trading West would ensure that the Hornets stay under this season's luxury tax threshold.

The Hornets would likely prefer to move Emeka Okafor, Peja Stojakovic, James Posey, Mo Peterson, Darius Songaila or Julian Wright. But finding a taker for any of these other players will be more difficult than doing so for West.

[Deleterious]

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Bulls Eye T-Mac

Bulls Eye T-Mac

With Tracy McGrady being sent home as the Rockets look to deal him, the Bulls are one of the teams expected to call Houston.

Ten years ago, McGrady chose the Magic when the Bulls had cap room and tried to sign him as a free-agent.

"Whoever gets me is going to get a hungry player," McGrady said recently. "I don't care if I go to the moon. It doesn't matter."

The Bulls have expiring contracts in Brad Miller and Jerome James. The team may also want to include John Salmons in a deal for McGrady.

[jonjd]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Houston:

Rip and Tay for McGrady.

Sactown:

Tayshaun for Kenny Thomas and Spencer Hawes.

Dallas:

Rip for Josh Howard.

Clippers:

Tayshaun for Chris Kamen

All REALLY funny.

[Truth]

Originally Posted by Deleterious

RealGM: Basketball Wiretap Archives: Hornets Will Be Forced To Move West?

They would prefer to move Okafor? It really makes me wonder (again) why they made the Chandler trade.

[84 Lives!!!]

I like Del's trade of Rip for Hickson.

I'd also be hunting for Andris Biedrins in the Warriors are trying to dismantle.

Prince, Maxiell, Atkins, and a lottery-protected 1st for Biedrins, Randolph, and Claxton works $$$-wise... but I don't see how the Warriors would be interested in any trade we could offer as I just don't see us matching up that well... my trade idea above included. It doesn't even come close to working for them...

I also wouldn't mind going the Tracey McGrady route for the rest of the year. Clears salary cap... might put us in top-7 position for a draft pick...

Prince-Hamilton-Wilcox for Budinger(hah!!!)-McGrady-Dorsey?

That would certainly clear the decks for the Pistons. And give the Rockets two competitive/ productive veterans to combine with Yao and Scola.

[Betrayer]

I'll take Okafor.

[sportz4life]

JJ Hickson is a small power forward..I'll pass.

Okefor is better than we have, but an underachiever for the money. Definatley not a game changer.

The smartest thing the Warriors could do, is fire Don Nelson, they have a lot of talent and need a real basketball GM that can sort out how to restructure their squard. Ellis, Biedrins, Randolph is a pretty solid way to start..they need direction.

The Pistons need a new GM..they have meager top end talent and no direction, they have few if any players who would start on a good team and those that could are old..

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

The Pistons need a new GM..they have meager top end talent and no direction, they have few if any players who would start on a good team and those that could are old..

I don't understand this opinion (I've heard it more than a few times). Everyone is reflecting on the last decade right now, and I would argue that the Pistons have not had a better decade in the history of the franchise. IMO probably the 3rd best team of the past decade behind San Antonio and the Lakers.

I think getting rid of Dumars would not be a good move at this point. He has done some great things (i.e. a CRAZY successful decade) and really deserves another shot at building a new team. Dumars has made his share of bad moves, but 20 other NBA teams would love to have half of Dumars success the past 10 years!

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

I don't understand this opinion (I've heard it more than a few times). Everyone is reflecting on the last decade right now, and I would argue that the Pistons have not had a better decade in the history of the franchise. IMO probably the 3rd best team of the past decade behind San Antonio and the Lakers.

I think getting rid of Dumars would not be a good move at this point. He has done some great things (i.e. a CRAZY successful decade) and really deserves another shot at building a new team. Dumars has made his share of bad moves, but 20 other NBA teams would love to have half of Dumars success the past 10 years!

Look..Dumars hasn't made a shrewd move since 2005. I respect the accomplishments prior to that time, really I do, he's traded the wrong players and waited too long to do it, extended the wrong players at the wrong time, drafted horrendulsy, even missing the easier low risk second round choices and basically left the Pistons with no cap room and a roster of good 6th men and old formerly solid starters.

The have a past but no future and no room to have a future..his talent evaluations have been ridiculously poor for 5 years and now most of his talent isn't even young or very tradeable...I'm not going to even address the coaching carousel or the failure to add the one more player that may have helped them win a title during ECF run.

Just my opinion, but refute it.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Look..Dumars hasn't made a shrewd move since 2005. I respect the accomplishments prior to that time, realy I do, he's trade the wrong players and waited too long to do it, extended the wrong players at the wroing time, drafted horrendulsy, even missing the easier low risk second round choices and basically left the Pitons with no cap room and a roster of good 6th men and old formerly solid starters.

The have a pst but no future and nor oom to have a future..his talent evaluations have been ridiculously poor for 5 years and now most of his talent isn't even young or very tradeable.

Just my opinion, but refute it.

I don't mind trying to refute it, but what players did he trade that were wrong? The one most argue is Billups, but in your previous comment you stated that we have untradeable older players. The poor draft that most complain about is Darko, but I can't tell you how many GM's I heard comment on Darko's HUGE potential before, during, and after that draft (we also got a first round pick for him showing that other teams still thought he has some high value). I'm not sure I'm going to criticize anyone on drafting poorly in the 2nd round. Absolute crap shoot at that point IMO, but I'm not a GM. Maybe there are GM's who have GREAT 2nd round picks often, but I'd think that 70% of 2nd round picks probably don't play much NBA ball, let alone become big contributors, but I could EASILY be wrong!

I'd say Stuckey was a good pick recently, but drafting at the end of most of the drafts the past 5 years makes quality guys difficult to find. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult.

Compared to most GM's in the league, I'm not sure there is much to be critical of Dumars for. I think you would find the same complaints you state above from 80% of NBA fans about their own GM. The difference is Dumars has a KILLER record to back up his GM choices.

[Deleterious]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

JJ Hickson is a small power forward..I'll pass.

Okefor is better than we have, but an underachiever for the money. Definatley not a game changer.

The smartest thing the Warriors could do, is fire Don Nelson, they have a lot of talent and need a real basketball GM that can sort out how to restructure their squard. Ellis, Biedrins, Randolph is a pretty solid way to start..they need direction.

The Pistons need a new GM..they have meager top end talent and no direction, they have few if any players who would start on a good team and those that could are old..

6'9" 245 is not small for a PF nowdays. Especially if he becomes a backup.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by Deleterious

6'9" 245 is not small for a PF nowdays. Especially if he becomes a backup.

Seen him up close..more like 6-7.5..has skills..but we need to do better than that.

[84 Lives!!!]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

JJ Hickson is a small power forward..I'll pass.

Okefor is better than we have, but an underachiever for the money. Definatley not a game changer.

The smartest thing the Warriors could do, is fire Don Nelson, they have a lot of talent and need a real basketball GM that can sort out how to restructure their squard. Ellis, Biedrins, Randolph is a pretty solid way to start..they need direction.

The Pistons need a new GM..they have meager top end talent and no direction, they have few if any players who would start on a good team and those that could are old..

Incorrect, correct, correct, incorrect.

[belcherboy]

I also think that one of the things that makes Dumars unique, especially over the past decade, is the fact that he hasn't had a superstar on his team. The Lakers have had a few superstars, and the best player of the past decade. The SA Spurs have had a superstar, and arguably the second best player of the decade. The Pistons might have had a top 10 player of the past decade in Billups, but even that is debatable.

I think we may be sorry if Dumars were to go from the Pistons. I wouldn't mind seeing him jump into a higher office in the Pistons organization, but I wouldn't want to see him leave the Pistons. He is probably the best GM we have ever had.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

I don't mind trying to refute it, but what players did he trade that were wrong? The one most argue is Billups, but in your previous comment you stated that we have untradeable older players. The poor draft that most complain about is Darko, but I can't tell you how many GM's I heard comment on Darko's HUGE potential before, during, and after that draft (we also got a first round pick for him showing that other teams still thought he has some high value). I'm not sure I'm going to criticize anyone on drafting poorly in the 2nd round. Absolute crap shoot at that point IMO, but I'm not a GM. Maybe there are GM's who have GREAT 2nd round picks often, but I'd think that 70% of 2nd round picks probably don't play much NBA ball, let alone become big contributors, but I could EASILY be wrong!

I'd say Stuckey was a good pick recently, but drafting at the end of most of the drafts the past 5 years makes quality guys difficult to find. Not impossible, but definitely more difficult.

Compared to most GM's in the league, I'm not sure there is much to be critical of Dumars for. I think you would find the same complaints you state above from 80% of NBA fans about their own GM. The difference is Dumars has a KILLER record to back up his GM choices.

1. How has the Billups move worked out, the only player he had that made his other pieces more efficient, he moved. Then he used the money to buy 2 high end bench pieces.

2. Drafting, really..only Darko..look.. smart teams find pieces they like and manuever in the first and second rounds to get them, see OKC..see SA... last year was a great example..he took 4 SF..none of substance and left layups like Lawson and Blair on the table, shrewd rookies not only infuse your teams talent they infuse your teams payroll with flexibility, to not be succesful with these choices, even once in a while is suicide..and it's not second guessing, many of us sat here draft night yelling for those players..Buddinger is and will be a better piece than Daye..Walter Sharpe, what the heck was that..??

3. Lot's of other GM's would have moved a piece of their starting line up after 2005..it takes vision..any scared fool can stand pat and pray.

4. The draft is never a crapshoot when you know how to scout..look at teams like Houston and tell me it's a crapshoot, heck GS drafts better than Dumars and Nelson is a nutjjob.

Your laments are the same excuses I have heard for years..It's like a beautiful house on the outside, that was rotting and becoming dated on the inside..and then you are left with a mess, that needs to be gutted, needs a new vision and sells for a fraction of what it could have.

[Deleterious]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Seen him up close..more like 6-7.5..has skills..but we need to do better than that.

But thats the entire NBA. Brook Lopez listed at 7', but measured 6'11.25". Dwight Howard listed as 6'11" but measured 6'9". Kevin Love measured 6'7.75". Nobody is the actual height they list. Although when Howard was measured he was 18, so he probably grew some after.

I still do the trade. We are going to get nothing for Rip. So If I can just get away from his contract, I am happy. Hickson is just a throw in and if he ever develops into something, its just gravy.

[lesgoblu02]

That might be the only time I have seen DeJaun Blair referred to as a "Layup".

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

1. How has the Billups move worked out, the only player he had that made his other pieces more efficient, he moved. Then he used the money to buy 2 high end bench pieces.

2. Drafting, really..only Darko..look.. smart teams find pieces they like and manuever in the first and second rounds to get them, see OKC..see SA... last year was a great example..he took 4 SF..none of substance and left layups like Lawson and Blair on the table, shrewd rookies not only infuse your teams talent they infuse your teams payroll with flexibility, to not be succesful with these choices, even once in a while is suicide..and it's not second guessing, many of us sat here draft night yelling for those players..Buddinger is and will be a better piece than Daye..Walter Sharpe, what the heck was that..??

3. Lot's of other GM's would have moved a piece of their starting line up after 2005..it takes vision..any scared fool can stand pat and pray.

4. The draft is never a crapshoot when you know how to scout..look at teams like Houston and tell me it's a crapshoot, heck GS drafts better than Dumars and Nelson is a nutjjob.

Your laments are the same excuses I have heard for years..It's like a beautiful house on the outside, that was rotting and becoming dated on the inside..and then you are left with a mess, that needs to be gutted, needs a new vision and sells for a fraction of what it could have.

Fair enough, although I'm not sure it isn't easier to have better drafts when you are a lottery team year in and year out (with the exception of the Lions ).

I have to disagree that "Lot's of other GM's would have moved a piece of their starting line up after 2005". How many GM's change their team, after they are one shot away from winning an NBA title???? I think the biggest mistake wasn't the starting lineup after 2005, it was the lousy choice of coaches! The talent was there to win another championship, the coach was not IMO.

I still don't agree with you on your assessment that Dumars should be fired, but you definitely follow the NBA closer than I do!

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

Fair enough, although I'm not sure it isn't easier to have better drafts when you are a lottery team year in and year out (with the exception of the Lions ).

I have to disagree that "Lot's of other GM's would have moved a piece of their starting line up after 2005". How many GM's change a big part of their team, after they are one shot away from winning an NBA title????

I still don't agree with you on your assessment that Dumars should be fired, but you definitely follow the NBA closer than I do!

Go look at who won and played in the finals from 2004 through 2008.
SA, BOS, CLE, LAL, DAL, MIA.

Every team made roster revsions to get there and win or lose to try and stay there..even SA..

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Go look at who won and played in the finals from 2004 through 2008.
SA, BOS, CLE, LAL, DAL, MIA.

Every team made roster revsions to get there and win or lose to try and stay there..even SA..

Dumars has accomplished more than all those GMs because he took a team with nothing and turned it into a champion.

Have any of those teams had to completely rebuild a team from scratch? No. Not even close. Each of them has always had a superstar. the closest example is Ainge in Boston.

Dumars has made as many mistakes as any GM. But any GM who has been in his position for as long as he's been there is going to make those mistakes. The reason we remember his and not others' is that it's our team making the mistakes.

In the end, every team's situation is different. It's quite possible that he was under orders not to tear the team down and totally rebuild, but rather to try to rebuild on the fly again. That's hard to do. We'll see if he can pull it off.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Go look at who won and played in the finals from 2004 through 2008.
SA, BOS, CLE, LAL, DAL, MIA.

Every team made roster revsions to get there and win or lose to try and stay there..even SA..

Miami got worse after the championship, Cleveland hasn't made it back and has arguably taken a step back, and Dallas has gotten significantly worse after their finals appearance.

You did say that Dumars should have made moves after their finals appearance 2005, so tell me what significant roster changes the Lakers, SA, and Boston made the year after they were in the finals, and if the roster changes were so good, why did it not make them "back to back" champs?

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

Miami got worse after the championship, Cleveland hasn't made it back and has arguably taken a step back, and Dallas has gotten significantly worse after their finals appearance.

You did say that Dumars should have made moves after their finals appearance 2005, so tell me what significant roster changes the Lakers, SA, and Boston made the year after they were in the finals, and if the roster changes were so good, why did it not make them "back to back" champs?

NBobody was back to back and the only multiple time champ was SA..but look at theplayers SA adds to their roster. the LAL redid their entire roster except ofr Kobe between 2004 and 2009..

The point..nothing ventured, nothing gained..Dumars still, hasn;t made a shrewd move, since 2004..share one shrewd move..in 5 years.

[lesgoblu02]

SA didn't add anyone worth a **** until this season. Their success has always been built around Duncan/Parker/Ginobili.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Each of them has always had a superstar.

That is what stood out to the list of teams above. Each of them have 1 guy that is a superstar, and when most those teams were in the finals they had a #2 guy that was better than any player we had on our roster.

For the Pistons to make so many ECF's, and NBA Finals appearances the past 6 years is simply AMAZING, given the lack of big games that have been on the roster.

I'm still unsure why anyone would claim that Dumars is worthy of being fired or should be fired.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

NBobody was back to back and the only multiple time champ was SA..but look at theplayers SA adds to their roster. the LAL redid their entire roster except ofr Kobe between 2004 and 2009..

The point..nothing ventured, nothing gained..Dumars still, hasn;t made a shrewd move, since 2004..share one shrewd move..in 5 years.

You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

[Deleterious]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

What are you talking about? Since 2004:

Laker championships = 1

Piston championships = 0

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by lesgoblu02

SA didn't add anyone worth a **** until this season. Their success has always been built around Duncan/Parker/Ginobili.

Considering Parker and Ginobili were young and inexpensive during part of the run..why would they have moved them..Bonner, Hill and Blair are better complimentary players than anyone Dumars has added...others Popovich drafted were Devin Brown and Beno Udrich..youmake fewere changes..when you WIN the titile more than once and oyur nucleaus is young.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by Deleterious

What are you talking about? Since 2004:

Laker championships = 1

Piston championships = 0

Pistons won in 2004. I was counting that.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

You mean besides going to 6 ECF and 2 NBA Finals? The Lakers haven't come close to the success of the Pistons since 2004.

It is easy to say that the Pistons failed to make the correct moves, but they were getting pretty good odds of winning the title every year from 2005-2008. The Lakers weren't contenders until recently.

On top of that, how hard is it to build around the best player the NBA has seen since Jordan? Kobe is probably a top 5 all time NBA player (at least he will be if he can keep this up another 2-3 years)

Pretty hard..what good did it do them prior to 2009..he wanted to be traded..yet..the LAL..rebuilt their entire roster between 2004 and 2009.and now they can compete on a perennial basis for the remainder of Kobe's career.

The Pistons just have the remember when team..and are searching for how to return to glory..

Lastly since 2004..who has more titles..LAL or Detroit??

[Deleterious]

Originally Posted by belcherboy

Pistons won in 2004. I was counting that.

My bad. I figured you meant from 05 on.

[Deleterious]

Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Pretty hard..what good did it do them prior to 2009..he wanted to be traded..yet..the LAL..rebuilt their entire roster between 2004 and 2009.and now they can compete on a perennial basis for the remainder of Kobe's career.

The Pistons just have the remember when team..and are searching for how to return to glory..

Lastly since 2004..who has more titles..LAL or Detroit??

Again, of course they built their entire roster....it was bad after Shaq left. You either rebuild or lose the best player of the decade.

No doubt that LAL GM deserves credit. So if we throw out the 2004 championship, let's throw out the top 3 GM's in the NBA.

Who has had more success since 2004, Dumars or any GM from 25 other NBA teams during that time? I still think it is CRAZY to get rid of Dumars, especially with the record he has produced in the past 8-10 years. Seriously, the guy has had one bad season (last year) in the past 10 years of his tenure and they still made the playoffs.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

Hard to argue he deserves a chance..but based upon the last 5 years, he isn't equipped to do the job anymore..just look at the moves of last season..

He had a nice run, my suspicions are he will resign when they sell the team, if they can sell the team.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by Deleterious

Dumars shouldn't be fired, yet. I feel his past accomplishments get him 3 years to rebuild. This was year one, so two more years. If they aren't back in the top 4 of the conference by then, its time to talk about getting rid of him.

I think until your team fails to make the playoffs for 3-4 years straight, you don't fire a GM who has a playoff record that Dumars has accumulated since coming to Detroit. If he doesn't make the playoffs the next 3 years, than I agree with you. If he does, I think it would be foolish to get rid of a guy with the experience and track record that Dumars brings to the table.

[belcherboy]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Hard to argue he deserves a chance..but based upon the last 5 years, he isn't equipped to do the job anymore..just look at the moves of last season..

He had a nice run, my suspicions are he will resign when they sell the team, if they can sell the team.

I was always hoping that Dumars would be able to buy and/or run the team. I think he would make a GREAT owner/representative of the owners, and would obviously hire a new GM.