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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    KCP, the 8th overall draft pick, can't even make the rookie-sophmore challenge.

    The more you zero in and watch him the more you realize we got sold a bill of goods.
    This is like saying Andre Drummond is a bust because he didn't even make the All Star reserves. Who cares about these things?
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Pretty low expectations for a top 10 pick.

    He is an average shooter. He was drafted because we were told he was a lights out shooter.
    Have you seen the past #8 draft picks and how they turn out? Not sure what you were expecting, but I think in this draft a rotation player at #8 was a good find, especially one with potential to grow.

    8th Overall NBA Draft Picks

    Here is another story from RealGM today on lottery picks 34 Percent Of Lottery Picks Between 2004 2008 Already Out Of NBA - RealGM Wiretap
    Last edited by DrWho17; 01-31-2014 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by drownwithyou View Post
    This is like saying Andre Drummond is a bust because he didn't even make the All Star reserves. Who cares about these things?
    Well, I think the argument can be made convincingly that Andre Drummond got robbed too. He has better numbers then Noah/Hibbert, most double-doubles and is actually more consistent then either of those guys, but in the NBA it takes a while for them to let you into the all-star club.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Well, I think the argument can be made convincingly that Andre Drummond got robbed too. He has better numbers then Noah/Hibbert, most double-doubles and is actually more consistent then either of those guys, but in the NBA it takes a while for them to let you into the all-star club.
    Which is my point, who gets chosen for these things isn't a good indicator of the best players, etc.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Well, I think the argument can be made convincingly that Andre Drummond got robbed too. He has better numbers then Noah/Hibbert, most double-doubles and is actually more consistent then either of those guys, but in the NBA it takes a while for them to let you into the all-star club.
    Noah and Hibbert are much better than Drummond at this point. Drummond is still mostly potential.

    Look, I love me some Andre Drummond, but he has to improve his anemic defense before he can be in the same club as Noah or Hibbert. Come on now, take the homer glasses off...
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Pretty low expectations for a top 10 pick.

    He is an average shooter. He was drafted because we were told he was a lights out shooter.
    not really. He was drafted because he was a great athlete who could defend the perimeter and grow into a "3 and D" role. He fit what the Pistons were - supposedly - trying to build in a more athletic team.

    I realize that he's not Trey Burke, but you have to get past that at some point.

    Trey Burke's last four games:
    2-10, 9 points
    4-10, 9 points
    4-12, 12 points
    3-10, 8 points

    Sounds like Chris Paul to me... :P
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    not really. He was drafted because he was a great athlete who could defend the perimeter and grow into a "3 and D" role. He fit what the Pistons were - supposedly - trying to build in a more athletic team.

    I realize that he's not Trey Burke, but you have to get past that at some point.

    Trey Burke's last four games:
    2-10, 9 points
    4-10, 9 points
    4-12, 12 points
    3-10, 8 points

    Sounds like Chris Paul to me... :P
    2-10 for 4 points tonight. It was especially impressive watching him foul Curry on a jump shot not once, but twice in 2 minutes.

  8. #88
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    The only knock that one can put on KCP where anyone says he hasn't met expectations is that he has shot poorly from deep.
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  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    2-10 for 4 points tonight. It was especially impressive watching him foul Curry on a jump shot not once, but twice in 2 minutes.
    2-13 for 6 points tonight against the Clippers.

    And that was without Chris Paul. It was Darren Collison's sterling defense that held him down...
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  10. #90
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    Well, sure if you do not count steals/rebounding/blocked shots as defense.

    Also, AD by the metrics is one of the top defenders in the league, he's also starting to focus on blocking shots.

    Defensive impact rankings
    NBA Stats - Player Tracking Defensive Impact

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Well, sure if you do not count steals/rebounding/blocked shots as defense.

    Also, AD by the metrics is one of the top defenders in the league, he's also starting to focus on blocking shots.

    Defensive impact rankings
    NBA Stats - Player Tracking Defensive Impact
    Has there ever been a 20/10 big with 3+ blks per game not make an All-Star team? I'd put him on the team even if his team won zero games.

  12. #92
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    Well, I was talking about Andre Drummond, not Anthony Davis, but yea he really got robbed by the ole boys network.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    2-13 for 6 points tonight against the Clippers.

    And that was without Chris Paul. It was Darren Collison's sterling defense that held him down...
    Has anyone ever seen Burke and Paul on the court at the same time? Do we know for sure that Burke isn't actually Chris Paul?
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  14. #94
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    I wonder if that DetroitBadBoys writer that wrote the September article that is linked in the first post would like to retract his comment about the talent being fortified at SF.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Well, sure if you do not count steals/rebounding/blocked shots as defense.

    Also, AD by the metrics is one of the top defenders in the league, he's also starting to focus on blocking shots.

    Defensive impact rankings
    NBA Stats - Player Tracking Defensive Impact
    Is there a stat for missed rotations? For being posted up way too far into the paint? For indifference on defense?

    No? You just hang your hat on "blocked shots" as the sole measure of defense.
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  16. #96
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    Trey Burke: 4-14 with 4 turnovers. 8 points.

    Where are all the articles saying how the Pistons missed on the next superstar point guard now?
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  17. #97
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    Is the goal to have the anti-Burke crowd be more irritating than the pro-Burke crowd? 5 posts on this page giving us Burke's numbers...Not sure why exactly and certainly not sure why after an 8 min 0-1 3 PF performance from KCP.
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Trey Burke: 4-14 with 4 turnovers. 8 points.

    Where are all the articles saying how the Pistons missed on the next superstar point guard now?
    Burke has been battling and intestinal ailment, came off the bench a couple times even. Easy to miss when you don't watch games.

    Speaking of Utah, they played better when Burks started and Hayward was injured.

  19. #99
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    As for KCP, we can only hope he can become a poor mans Bowen.

    Regardless of who Dumars should have taken (MCW would have been a great choice as well) KCP was and is the wrong choice. Not good when your pure shooter is a poor shooter.

  20. #100
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    Winning the turnover battle: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope’s most unheralded skill PistonPowered
    But somehow, nobody seems to know that Caldwell-Pope is the best player in the league at winning the turnover battle; and, quite frankly, its not that close.

    KCP never turns the ball over. Seriously, already this season he has had three stretches of over 150 minutes of playing time in which he never coughed up the rock:
    166 minutes from November 17 to November 27
    155 minutes from December 10 to December 20
    214 minutes from January 10 to January 24

    There are only 16 players in the league with lower turnover rates. Ten of them are guys who have played fewer than 36 minutes and have accrued zero in that time frame. Of the remaining six, only Battier has played more than 300 minutes. Battier is absurdly good at not giving the ball to the other team, slightly better even than Kentavious. But hes no match for KCP in taking the ball away from them.
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  21. #101
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    I don't know if I have ever seen KCP dribble, he either shoots it immediately or dunks it off a pass on the fast break.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    As for KCP, we can only hope he can become a poor mans Bowen.

    Regardless of who Dumars should have taken (MCW would have been a great choice as well) KCP was and is the wrong choice. Not good when your pure shooter is a poor shooter.
    He has a great stroke, He is adjusting and thinking too much like a rookie. You are way too hard on him. And he has way more potential than to be a Bruce Bowen type, he will probably never have the intangibles but he is infinitely more athletic, quicker, faster, and in time I think he will show off his shot creation skills he had at Georgia.

  23. #103
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    And the more I watch Burke, the more my Pre-season Chauncey comparison makes sense. He is a slightly weaker (though pretty strong) and shorter Chauncey. A poor man's Chauncey if you will.

    Only an All-Star if he is on a Championship level team with 4 other equals or riding shotgun to a superstar. He is not a Chris Paul "best player on a 50 win team" type talent. He is a solid pro but his upside stops there.

  24. #104
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    Mike Bibby and Jameer Nelson are apt names to throw out too. A solid pro.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Burke has been battling and intestinal ailment, came off the bench a couple times even. Easy to miss when you don't watch games.

    Speaking of Utah, they played better when Burks started and Hayward was injured.
    So you watch every Pistons game and every Utah Jazz game, do you do anything else? :eyeroll:

    I was wondering when you would come around and have an excuse for the next Chris Paul.
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  26. #106
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    Well, imagine how amazing Trey Burke would be with noted guard expert Mo Cheeks as his head coach
    Kobernoooooous

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    So you watch every Pistons game and every Utah Jazz game, do you do anything else? :eyeroll:
    Besides watch sports? Honestly no. I also watch every Maple Leafs game and every UM hoops game during the winter. Any other curiosities about my sports watching habits?

    Life of a single man who works an 8-5.

  28. #108
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    Burke won rookie of the month for the west. MCW won it for the east.

  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    As for KCP, we can only hope he can become a poor mans Bowen.

    Regardless of who Dumars should have taken (MCW would have been a great choice as well) KCP was and is the wrong choice. Not good when your pure shooter is a poor shooter.
    Even prolific three-point shooting 2s and 3s can struggle their first year in the NBA. Notables include:

    Glen Rice, 24.6%
    Nick Anderson, 5.9%
    Chris Mullin, 18.5%
    Danny Ainge, 29.4%
    Craig Hodges, 22.2%
    Steve Novak, 33.3%
    Jeff Hornacek 27.9%
    Dan Majerle, 32.9%
    Allan Houston, 29.9%
    Vince Carter, 28.8%


    KCP was probably right in the middle of this pack of players in terms of shooting ability/technique coming out of college and his 32.6% puts him there--or a little better--as well. This isn't including players with far better all-around games like Jordan and Drexler, who didn't crack 30% until they were years into their careers and already established as the two best shooting guards in the world at the time.

    This isn't to say KCP will be great, but how can you possibly close the book on a rookie halfway into the season when he is playing good defense and taking care of the rock? Were you ready to ship Allan Houston out of town as a rookie as well, like lots of other Pistons fans were? His pedigree was far better and more established than KCP's when we drafted him with a "lowly" 11th pick.

    As undeveloped as the NBA gets much of its talent these days, it isn't reasonable to high expectations of most players as rookies. We got lucky with Drummond, as he's advancing ahead of schedule. But then again, he was the 2nd most talented player in that draft by most estimates. KCP was always supposed to be a complementary piece, and for the most part he's done his job since we've drafted him.
    2012 AAT: Fu-Te Ni

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickeyb105 View Post
    This isn't to say KCP will be great, but how can you possibly close the book on a rookie halfway into the season when he is playing good defense and taking care of the rock?
    He isn't Trey Burke.
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  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by drownwithyou View Post
    He isn't Trey Burke.
    No one is.
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  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    No one is.
    Rookie of the month baby.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Rookie of the month baby.
    He's the next Chris Paul. Even if he is shooting 30% this month and averaging less than 10 points a game.

    That's worse than Jameer Nelson...
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  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    He's the next Chris Paul. Even if he is shooting 30% this month and averaging less than 10 points a game.

    That's worse than Jameer Nelson...
    Haters going to hate man. When a man has to quote monthly stats 6 days into the month you know he has lost it.

  35. #115
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    How's Brandon knight doing?
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Haters going to hate man. When a man has to quote monthly stats 6 days into the month you know he has lost it.
    Aw, come on! You predict doom if the tigers fall behind 1-0 in the first. You can't criticize someone else's small sample, even Buddha's.
    AAT: Ian Kinsler

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    Aw, come on! You predict doom if the tigers fall behind 1-0 in the first. You can't criticize someone else's small sample, even Buddha's.
    The tigers are more important than anything NBA. Tigers have a finer microscope.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelton View Post
    How's Brandon knight doing?
    Not bad to be honest. Over 16 PPG and 4.8 assists per game. But he has been playing a lot of SG. His shooting isn't anything to write home about either.

    Middleton is also playing decent. 11 PPG but more relevant to the Pistons, he is shooting 42% from behind the line. Might have been better off passing on Smith and keeping Middleton.

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Haters going to hate man. When a man has to quote monthly stats 6 days into the month you know he has lost it.
    Well...those were his stats for his games since he lit up the Pistons all star defensive back court.

    Would you like his stats for this month? Ok, let's see...

    He's shooting 22% from the field and 16% from three. 7 points, 4 assists, and 2.5 turnovers.

    But, as you know, he's had a tummyache.
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  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Well...those were his stats for his games since he lit up the Pistons all star defensive back court.

    Would you like his stats for this month? Ok, let's see...

    He's shooting 22% from the field and 16% from three. 7 points, 4 assists, and 2.5 turnovers.

    But, as you know, he's had a tummyache.
    We both know where we stand on this issue, time will give us the answer.

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