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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    and if this happens:



    What do you think it does for the organization?
    Nothing. Things not based in reality rarely mean much.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    The problem is, you're really giving them 3-4 more seasons.

    Keeping Dumars you let him A) Hire a new coach who will be here at least 2 years. And B) Use that cap space to sign guys for the next 3-4 years.

    So even if you fire Dumars next summer his fingerprints are all over this team for the next 4 years.

    With the coaching vacancy and the cap space to reshape the roster, this was the summer to fire Dumars.
    Only if you spend a bunch of money and love this FA class. You let him hire the coach, true, but you also would be handing a new GM a bunch of cheap, young players on rookie deals and few long term commitments.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Nothing. Things not based in reality rarely mean much.
    Ok this is awesome...I love the 'long shot'...so you are so confident about the team sucking next year no matter what happens....so would you like to place a friendly wager on the Pistons winning 45 games? Or does the first round playoff win have to be included?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Brian_K View Post
    Ok this is awesome...I love the 'long shot'...so you are so confident about the team sucking next year no matter what happens....so would you like to place a friendly wager on the Pistons winning 45 games? Or does the first round playoff win have to be included?
    The last two years I have bet the O/U on their total wins and made both public. I won two years ago (Forgot the win total) and lost this year. This year I picked Over 31.5 wins.

    I will bet again when the O/U is released later this summer. So lets come back to it then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Only if you spend a bunch of money and love this FA class. You let him hire the coach, true, but you also would be handing a new GM a bunch of cheap, young players on rookie deals and few long term commitments.
    Well, they have to spend that money this year somehow.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Well, they have to spend that money this year somehow.
    No doubt, but it seems quite possible that it could be on short term commitments. We have to spend about 14 mil IIRC, so it will be interesting to see what we choose to do with it either way.

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    I also want to point out that Mo Cheeks reigned over the Jail Blazers era in Portland. You know, the era that Nate McMillan fixed when he came in and added discipline to a lost team.

    Yea, Cheeks is exactly the guy I want for my young team that needs an identity Let's just bring in Sheed as an assistant to top it off.

    I can't express how disappointed I am in this hiring. This was supposed to be the offseason of hope. With a lottery pick, a lot of money, tradeable assets, a new coach, and a chance for a new GM, we had the potential to really turn this franchise around in just one summer. We could have gotten back to the "going to work" mantra that fans could take pride in.

    Instead Gores hangs on to Joe and now we hire Mo Cheeks as the head coach. It's mind boggling. Might as well grab Josh Smith so we can turn this into the Jail Blazers part 2.

    I don't think any franchise could fail this hard over and over again unless it was trying to do so on purpose. Nice work Joe (and Gores...and Phil Jackson).
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    The last two years I have bet the O/U on their total wins and made both public. I won two years ago (Forgot the win total) and lost this year. This year I picked Over 31.5 wins.

    I will bet again when the O/U is released later this summer. So lets come back to it then?
    Sure thing. Bets always make things more interesting IMO...even if they are non monetary.
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betrayer View Post
    I also want to point out that Mo Cheeks reigned over the Jail Blazers era in Portland. You know, the era that Nate McMillan fixed when he came in and added discipline to a lost team.

    Yea, Cheeks is exactly the guy I want for my young team that needs an identity Let's just bring in Sheed as an assistant to top it off.

    I can't express how disappointed I am in this hiring. This was supposed to be the offseason of hope. With a lottery pick, a lot of money, tradeable assets, a new coach, and a chance for a new GM, we had the potential to really turn this franchise around in just one summer. We could have gotten back to the "going to work" mantra that fans could take pride in.

    Instead Gores hangs on to Joe and now we hire Mo Cheeks as the head coach. It's mind boggling. Might as well grab Josh Smith so we can turn this into the Jail Blazers part 2.

    I don't think any franchise could fail this hard over and over again unless it was trying to do so on purpose. Nice work Joe (and Gores...and Phil Jackson).
    That's not really fair. Mcmillan got new players, Roy,Aldridge and co. Cheeks inherited most of those guys. JR Rider,Sheed etc.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    That's not really fair. Mcmillan got new players, Roy,Aldridge and co. Cheeks inherited most of those guys. JR Rider,Sheed etc.
    Take a look back at the Jailblazer era and you'll see that it was firmly during Mo's reign. He brought zero discipline to that team. Here's an article to help you out: Thugs R Us

    He's well known as a "nice guy" style coach. He's not the guy to bring a defensive, hard-working identity to this team. The only justification I've heard for hiring him is that maybe he worked with Westbrook in OKC and so we may want him to work with Knight. Really? Are we really going to compare those two players? One guy is a superstar and the other is either a bench player or just trade bait. Writers are digging for reasons why this hiring might make sense and that's the best they can come up with. As if we'd hire a coach to work with Knight when the clear building blocks of this franchise are Drummond and Monroe.

    The truth is that this makes no sense. It's the wrong guy for a team full of young players that need an identity.
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

  11. #51
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    Thank god they brought in Phil Jackson to help bring in Maurice Cheeks.
    Mediocre coach for a mediocre organization. Hell, they're not even mediocre at this point, more like bad but not horrible.
    It's sad that a once proud organization is being run into the ground but what can ya do? At least we had 2 different generations of great Pistons teams in the last 25 years so we're due for a long, crappy stretch.
    I fully expect Mayo to get a $10 mil/yr long term contract, for Muhammed to be the pick at 8 and for Dumars to get a 5 year extension.
    Go Pistons!!!
    Last edited by NYLion; 06-07-2013 at 01:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betrayer View Post
    Take a look back at the Jailblazer era and you'll see that it was firmly during Mo's reign. He brought zero discipline to that team. Here's an article to help you out: Thugs R Us

    He's well known as a "nice guy" style coach. He's not the guy to bring a defensive, hard-working identity to this team. The only justification I've heard for hiring him is that maybe he worked with Westbrook in OKC and so we may want him to work with Knight. Really? Are we really going to compare those two players? One guy is a superstar and the other is either a bench player or just trade bait. Writers are digging for reasons why this hiring might make sense and that's the best they can come up with. As if we'd hire a coach to work with Knight when the clear building blocks of this franchise are Drummond and Monroe.

    The truth is that this makes no sense. It's the wrong guy for a team full of young players that need an identity.
    He wasn't GM and all of those players like SToudemire,Sheed,Kemp,Woods,Patterson,Randolph etc. were known to be rough characters outside of Cheeks' influence. To blame him for that culture is pretty ridiculous. I'm not saying he's a super disciplinarian, but this is an awful way to judge him.

    Like I said, it doesn't excite me, but fans rarely know what a coach offers and players will matter most in the end. I'll wait and see with Cheeks.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    He wasn't GM and all of those players like SToudemire,Sheed,Kemp,Woods,Patterson,Randolph etc. were known to be rough characters outside of Cheeks' influence. To blame him for that culture is pretty ridiculous. I'm not saying he's a super disciplinarian, but this is an awful way to judge him.
    To absolve a coach of any responsibility for the identity of a team is beyond ridiculous. I can only judge Cheeks by his record as a head coach and the Jailblazers are one of two teams that he led. It's his job to give the team an identity. The identity of that team was one in which the players ruled the roost because the coach was too weak and too busy trying to be everyone's friend to lay down any sort of discipline or hard working identity. If you want to try to judge him by a different set of standards you can go ahead, but I'm going to judge him by what he's produced as a head coach. He was literally the worst choice of all the names discussed this off-season. Maybe this shouldn't shock me since we started the summer by retaining Joe D.
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

  14. #54
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    Maurice Cheeks could spell end of Joe Dumars era « PistonPowered

    When viewing Piston Powered, is their text on a red background or is my browser just messed up?
    VT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maurice Cheeks could spell end of Joe Dumars era « PistonPowered

    When viewing Piston Powered, is their text on a red background or is my browser just messed up?
    You have to disable your ad blocking software to get the normal white background.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maurice Cheeks could spell end of Joe Dumars era « PistonPowered

    When viewing Piston Powered, is their text on a red background or is my browser just messed up?
    "And that is part of the larger pattern of the appeal of a new online collectivism that is nothing less than a resurgence of the idea that the collective is all-wise, that it is desirable to have influence concentrated in a bottleneck that can channel the collective with the most verity and force."

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    You have to disable your ad blocking software to get the normal white background.
    Sneaky. Red doesn't look that bad.
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  18. #58
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    Hiring Maurice Cheeks won't thrill Detroit Pistons fans but his history with top guards may | MLive.com

    I can't wait to hear Joe at the introduction presser. Talking about the Stuckey revitalization plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betrayer View Post
    To absolve a coach of any responsibility for the identity of a team is beyond ridiculous. I can only judge Cheeks by his record as a head coach and the Jailblazers are one of two teams that he led. It's his job to give the team an identity. The identity of that team was one in which the players ruled the roost because the coach was too weak and too busy trying to be everyone's friend to lay down any sort of discipline or hard working identity. If you want to try to judge him by a different set of standards you can go ahead, but I'm going to judge him by what he's produced as a head coach. He was literally the worst choice of all the names discussed this off-season. Maybe this shouldn't shock me since we started the summer by retaining Joe D.
    There is zero chance we turn into a Jailblazers like team under Cheeks, so I see no reason to give it relevance. He also won some games in Portland fwiw and he took over Philly after they jettisoned Iverson and had very little going for them.

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    Fast forward two years from now when Vince Goodwill says that Phil Jackson told Gores to hire him and Dumars wanted ______ (fill in the blank with coach who is successful elsewhere).
    the above opinion is not respected by Deleterious

  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betrayer View Post
    I also want to point out that Mo Cheeks reigned over the Jail Blazers era in Portland. You know, the era that Nate McMillan fixed when he came in and added discipline to a lost team.

    Yea, Cheeks is exactly the guy I want for my young team that needs an identity Let's just bring in Sheed as an assistant to top it off.

    I can't express how disappointed I am in this hiring. This was supposed to be the offseason of hope. With a lottery pick, a lot of money, tradeable assets, a new coach, and a chance for a new GM, we had the potential to really turn this franchise around in just one summer. We could have gotten back to the "going to work" mantra that fans could take pride in.

    Instead Gores hangs on to Joe and now we hire Mo Cheeks as the head coach. It's mind boggling. Might as well grab Josh Smith so we can turn this into the Jail Blazers part 2.

    I don't think any franchise could fail this hard over and over again unless it was trying to do so on purpose. Nice work Joe (and Gores...and Phil Jackson).
    Terrible comparison....

    Not only were almost all those trouble players already on the team when Cheeks got hired, but how many of the current Pistons players can you try and relate or compare to the "Jail Blazers" players? Last time I checked, I don't remember seeing or hearing any Pistons in the news for getting in trouble off the court.

    But sure.....if the Pistons hire Cheeks, that'll instantly all change, and we'll have the Jail Blazers part 2.....seems to make sense.
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Fast forward two years from now when Vince Goodwill says that Phil Jackson told Gores to hire him and Dumars wanted ______ (fill in the blank with coach who is successful elsewhere).
    It's funny because it's true!

  23. #63
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    I cant remember a longer period of time between knowing a coach would be hired and him actually being hired. I wonder if there is a snag in negotiations. Please be a snag in negotiations. Please.
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    I cant remember a longer period of time between knowing a coach would be hired and him actually being hired. I wonder if there is a snag in negotiations. Please be a snag in negotiations. Please.
    Cheeks probably wants more money because he knows no one else wants the job.
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  25. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Cheeks probably wants more money because he knows no one else wants the job.
    I doubt it. The Pistons know nobody else wants Cheeks.

    Oh ****.
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  26. #66
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    As far as the team's overall attitude, we have gotten rid of most of the troubled players. Stuckey and Villanueva are the 2 guys left who I want gone ASAP because of their attitude. The rest of the roster seems to be made of good guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    I doubt it. The Pistons know nobody else wants Cheeks.

    Oh ****.
    I think Cheeks has the upper hand in negotiations. The Pistons are turning into the franchise where head coaches go to die (i.e., the Detroit Lions), and with Dumars' penchant to blame and fire head coaches relatively short into their tenure, I wouldn't be surprised if Cheeks is making sure his butt is covered before signing the dotted line.

  29. #69
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    Maurice Cheeks might be coach by weekend's end | The Detroit News

    The league had 12 coaching vacancies this summer. Six of them were playoff teams. That blows my mind.

    I'm all for someone coming in to help Knight develop. But uh, lets not forget the two guys in the post. They both have more upside than Knight probably.

    I'm not even sure who that would be. Is Ewing considered a good developer of bigs? If so, give him $250K more than he is making now and get him here. Yes that is a lot of money. But if he helps develops those two guys you will make it up times 10 later on down the road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maurice Cheeks might be coach by weekend's end | The Detroit News

    The league had 12 coaching vacancies this summer. Six of them were playoff teams. That blows my mind.

    I'm all for someone coming in to help Knight develop. But uh, lets not forget the two guys in the post. They both have more upside than Knight probably.

    I'm not even sure who that would be. Is Ewing considered a good developer of bigs? If so, give him $250K more than he is making now and get him here. Yes that is a lot of money. But if he helps develops those two guys you will make it up times 10 later on down the road.
    I don't understand why the development of Knight has become so prevalent when the future clearly hangs on the development of Monroe and Drummond. In fact, I'm a little worried Cheeks might spend too much time trying to develop Knight while not spending enough time on Monroe and Drummond.

  31. #71
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    All this focus on Knight is pure speculation from the media. We don't know if that was a crucial part of the reason Cheeks was even hired. I wouldn't focus on that.

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maurice Cheeks might be coach by weekend's end | The Detroit News

    The league had 12 coaching vacancies this summer. Six of them were playoff teams. That blows my mind.

    I'm all for someone coming in to help Knight develop. But uh, lets not forget the two guys in the post. They both have more upside than Knight probably.

    I'm not even sure who that would be. Is Ewing considered a good developer of bigs? If so, give him $250K more than he is making now and get him here. Yes that is a lot of money. But if he helps develops those two guys you will make it up times 10 later on down the road.
    The HC has to be the one who sets the tone. If you wanted Cheeks to develop Knight, you should have hired him as an assistant coach.

    I think that's all media speculation. Dumars wants Cheeks because he wants Cheeks to run the entire team, not because of Brandon Knight.
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    I really have no opinion(like it's been for the last 2 coaching hires) as I don't know enough about Cheeks. I keep hearing about how he's a nice guy, how he let his team become crazy (because clearly a head coach in his first gig on a team loaded with established players with garbage character and couldn't somehow tell these multi multi millionaires to get it together means he can't control a team. Seriously, we all know what a cancer Sheed was on this team and he was a shell of the player he was back then playing with seasoned vets and veteran coahces...What chance did Cheeks have there?). I even hear he's good at working with guards....This is all stuff I couldn't care less about. Our team is made up of good character guys so I'm not worried about a Jailblazers situation. Brandon Knight and Rodney Stuckey are NOT Russell Westbrook so I'm not expecting any miracles there either.

    What I'd like to hear about is how is he at in game management? Calling plays out of time-outs? Putting his teams in a position to win? Someone tell me about this. I look at his years in Philly and I see a team that was pretty terrible and didn't improve much. I don't see a whole lot to like right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    There is zero chance we turn into a Jailblazers like team under Cheeks, so I see no reason to give it relevance. He also won some games in Portland fwiw and he took over Philly after they jettisoned Iverson and had very little going for them.
    I'm sorry that a 1 to 1 correlation is the only one you can make here. Being a weak willed player's coach with no ability to build a team identity might not have given him a hand in the blame for the Jailblazers in your eyes (even though he was in a leadership position there), but it certainly still makes him the wrong coach for this job.
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphdude View Post
    I don't understand why the development of Knight has become so prevalent when the future clearly hangs on the development of Monroe and Drummond..................
    If I remember correctly, didn't Laimbeer mentor and develop the big men in Minnesota? Does anyone know why the Pistons, Joe Dumars, Gores, etc. hate Laimbeer? He couldn't do any worse than Cheeks or the other clowns that were interviewed for the job. As others have said, Cheeks, if hired, will be out of here in a couple of years. It's not a good thing to hire and fire a coach every 2 seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nd1377 View Post
    If I remember correctly, didn't Laimbeer mentor and develop the big men in Minnesota? Does anyone know why the Pistons, Joe Dumars, Gores, etc. hate Laimbeer? He couldn't do any worse than Cheeks or the other clowns that were interviewed for the job. As others have said, Cheeks, if hired, will be out of here in a couple of years. It's not a good thing to hire and fire a coach every 2 seasons.
    He interviewed when they hired Frank, or was it Kuester? One of those guys anyway. It has been rumored he did not interview well. Plus, like Thomas, Laimbeer is a giant prick too. He is back coaching in the WNBA now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maurice Cheeks might be coach by weekend's end | The Detroit News

    The league had 12 coaching vacancies this summer. Six of them were playoff teams. That blows my mind.

    I'm all for someone coming in to help Knight develop. But uh, lets not forget the two guys in the post. They both have more upside than Knight probably.

    I'm not even sure who that would be. Is Ewing considered a good developer of bigs? If so, give him $250K more than he is making now and get him here. Yes that is a lot of money. But if he helps develops those two guys you will make it up times 10 later on down the road.
    I'd love to get Hakeem hired full time, but I assume he isn't interested. I heard Ewing was getting the top assistant job in Charlotte. Kareem has actually done some decent work with bigs IIRC, but he's an oddball.

    Definitely agreed that a HC's priority shouldn't be Knight though either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    The HC has to be the one who sets the tone. If you wanted Cheeks to develop Knight, you should have hired him as an assistant coach.

    I think that's all media speculation. Dumars wants Cheeks because he wants Cheeks to run the entire team, not because of Brandon Knight.
    Agreed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    He interviewed when they hired Frank, or was it Kuester? One of those guys anyway. It has been rumored he did not interview well. Plus, like Thomas, Laimbeer is a giant prick too. He is back coaching in the WNBA now.
    Never understood for the life of me why people seem so sure that Laimbeer would be a good choice as HC. I realize we haven't made good hires, but that doesn't mean we need to make a terrible one. Laimbeer would be worse than Curry.

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    Deleterious is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Odd people are talking about Laimbeer and I just recently caught this article.

    NBA Legend Bill Laimbeer Hunts His Own Food and Grabs Dinner With Isiah Thomas -- Grub Street New York
    VT

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