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  1. #81
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    I don't know the answer, as I haven't thought on it hard, but I'd like some opinions on the following:

    How many teams would trade their situation (roster, draft picks, salary cap situation - the whole ball of wax) with the Pistons'?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I'm guess I'm just less optimistic. This is not exactly Robinson and Duncan we are talking about. Both these guys have serious flaws they have not yet proven they are likely to overcome. I'm more optimistic that Monroe can find his shot than that Drummond can overcome his liability at the stripe - and being a .300 FT shooter is going to hurt him a lot regardless of how good the rest of his game is.
    How many big men at 19 and 22 didn't have "serious flaws"? They all do. That is why it is called a rebuilding project. Like I said, there is no guarantee or this team doing anything. But in a rebuilding project what you want are a couple guys to build around, more draft picks and a lot of cap space. That is what we have.

    What we do with it is the question and concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I don't know the answer, as I haven't thought on it hard, but I'd like some opinions on the following:

    How many teams would trade their situation (roster, draft picks, salary cap situation - the whole ball of wax) with the Pistons'?
    Orlando, Phoenix, Charlotte. If any of them get the #1 pick I would subtract them from the list.

    Not saying Detroit isn't in a better spot than some not listed. Just not enough to warrant a total and complete swap.
    VT

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    I would add Sac to the list as well as a lock. I would say Atl and Mil are on fence because will need to restart building unless they are content being low seeds in East play-offs for next 5 years. Plus If I were Nets I'd want to swap as well because they have so many bloated contracts and will be impossible to add young talent the way the team is constructed, but I might be in minority with them.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikopolidis View Post
    I would add Sac to the list as well as a lock. I would say Atl and Mil are on fence because will need to restart building unless they are content being low seeds in East play-offs for next 5 years. Plus If I were Nets I'd want to swap as well because they have so many bloated contracts and will be impossible to add young talent the way the team is constructed, but I might be in minority with them.
    Disagree on Sacramento. They have as much (Little?) talent as Detroit does right now. They have a higher pick this year and no shot at losing their pick next year like Detroit does. Plus Cleveland owes them their 1st round pick next year (Top 12 protected).
    VT

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betrayer View Post
    More than likely Joe will be looking to bring back Calderon at PG. My question is instead of that, what do you guys think about pursuing Jeff Teague or Jarret Jack?
    I like Jack a lot but there's a couple of problems with him. He'll be really expensive to sign and he won't have near the shooters here that he currently has at GS.
    Teague would be interesting also. I think it depends on how the draft goes. Draft a PG and Joe likely targets a SF, draft a SF and he likely targets a PG or overpays to keep Calderon.

    What i prefer is to build primarily through the draft and find role players through smart trades (yeah i know, that's an oxymoron when it comes to Dumars). The last thing i want is for him to tie up a bunch of cap space into mediocre players.
    In other words, stay the course, be patient and let the young guys grow together with some capable veterans to provide leadership.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikopolidis View Post
    I would add Sac to the list as well as a lock. I would say Atl and Mil are on fence because will need to restart building unless they are content being low seeds in East play-offs for next 5 years. Plus If I were Nets I'd want to swap as well because they have so many bloated contracts and will be impossible to add young talent the way the team is constructed, but I might be in minority with them.
    Brooklyn is horribly constructed. They have no shot of winning a title and are locked in what that group of guys for years. The Gerald Wallace signing was awful. I can live with Derron Williams and Joe Johnson in the backcourt with Brooke Lopez in the middle, but the rest of the team is nothing special. Besides Lopez, no one on that team is on the up-swing, they are all declining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    This is my original post btw. I didn't say we had the same roster. I didn't say we were the same team. I said we are in the exact same position. That position is lots of money and nobody to take it.
    If we are talking strictly about cap room and free agency, I agree with you. If we are talking about franchise in general, then I say no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gehringer_2 View Post
    I'm guess I'm just less optimistic. This is not exactly Robinson and Duncan we are talking about. Both these guys have serious flaws they have not yet proven they are likely to overcome. I'm more optimistic that Monroe can find his shot than that Drummond can overcome his liability at the stripe - and being a .300 FT shooter is going to hurt him a lot regardless of how good the rest of his game is.
    This is true...it is just the hand we have been dealt with the lottery and we have to hope for the best. Dumars should have tanked and tried to get a top 3 pick but to be honest, even if he had done that, we might not be better off than we are now. Maybe we could have landed Kryie Irving or Anthony Davis but that is a pretty big IF.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Orlando, Phoenix, Charlotte. If any of them get the #1 pick I would subtract them from the list.

    Not saying Detroit isn't in a better spot than some not listed. Just not enough to warrant a total and complete swap.
    I'm not even sure I would put Orlando on that list. It's a close call because we have Drummond and they don't.

    Phoenix and Charlotte are definite. No other team in the NBA has as little talent as Detroit.

    Detroit has cap space, but what the hell are they going to spend it on? Mayo? Calderon? Who?

    They might be able to get some guy on a bad contract who would make them a contender for the 8th spot in the East, but that's it. And then they don't have their #1 pick next year. This team is just an ungodly mess right now.
    the above opinion is not respected by Deleterious

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Brooklyn is horribly constructed. They have no shot of winning a title and are locked in what that group of guys for years. The Gerald Wallace signing was awful. I can live with Derron Williams and Joe Johnson in the backcourt with Brooke Lopez in the middle, but the rest of the team is nothing special. Besides Lopez, no one on that team is on the up-swing, they are all declining.
    I'm with you. It is not all about talent here and now. Boston is another team like Brooklyn. It is a very long shot they win another title with their aging nucleus, even with a healthy Rondo. I like some of Milwaukee's bigs but I like ours better and don't think you are going to win with their guards so I would take our situation before the Bucks. Nothing special about the Sixers either.

    On top of this, no team in the Eastern Conference is going to win until Lebron and Bosh start declining or get injured. So give me a young team with their stars 5 years from their prime rather than a team with players at or nearing their decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Disagree on Sacramento. They have as much (Little?) talent as Detroit does right now. They have a higher pick this year and no shot at losing their pick next year like Detroit does. Plus Cleveland owes them their 1st round pick next year (Top 12 protected).
    Those are good points. I forgot to take the picks into account so that definitely changes things.

  13. #93
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    Coaching update: McMillan, Sampson, Van Gundy hot names - CBSSports.com

    * The Pistons are pursuing Sampson and McMillan, the former Trail Blazers coach, sources said. Team president Joe Dumars has long admired McMillan, and owner Tom Gores is taking a leading role in the search. "He's looking to put his stamp on this one," a person familiar with Gores' approach said.
    That sure is different than what we heard a week ago. I thought Gores put Dumars in a headlock and forced him to sign Frank? Isn't that putting your stamp on it?
    VT

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    Potential Pistons coach Nate McMillan brought old school discipline to Portland - Detroit Bad Boys

    DBB had a Portland blogger write an article about McMillan.

    The Pistons might want to get rid of Rodney Stuckey before he and Nate meet.
    You had me at "Get rid of Stuckey"
    VT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Coaching update: McMillan, Sampson, Van Gundy hot names - CBSSports.com



    That sure is different than what we heard a week ago. I thought Gores put Dumars in a headlock and forced him to sign Frank? Isn't that putting your stamp on it?
    If McMillan doesn't work out, in three years "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Gores made Dumars hire him. If he does work out, "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Dumars forced Gores to him because Gores wanted Sampson.

    Unless Sampson works out elsewhere, because if that is the case Dumars will have ALMOST hired Sampson because he really liked him.
    the above opinion is not respected by Deleterious

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    If McMillan doesn't work out, in three years "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Gores made Dumars hire him. If he does work out, "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Dumars forced Gores to him because Gores wanted Sampson.

    Unless Sampson works out elsewhere, because if that is the case Dumars will have ALMOST hired Sampson because he really liked him.
    It is all Karen Davidson's fault.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    If McMillan doesn't work out, in three years "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Gores made Dumars hire him. If he does work out, "Piston sources" will tell everyone that Dumars forced Gores to him because Gores wanted Sampson.

    Unless Sampson works out elsewhere, because if that is the case Dumars will have ALMOST hired Sampson because he really liked him.
    If McMillan works out you will say Dumars got lucky and it fell into his lap. If he doesn't work out you will say he is needs to be fired.

    See how easy it is?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Potential Pistons coach Nate McMillan brought old school discipline to Portland - Detroit Bad Boys

    DBB had a Portland blogger write an article about McMillan.

    You had me at "Get rid of Stuckey"
    I like that. Every coach that has been here has given Stuckey such a long leash, and he has been an awful player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Disagree on Sacramento. They have as much (Little?) talent as Detroit does right now. They have a higher pick this year and no shot at losing their pick next year like Detroit does. Plus Cleveland owes them their 1st round pick next year (Top 12 protected).
    I think Drummond is the only guy on either squad that has the potential to be the centerpiece of a championship team though. I think many teams would trade places with us just because of him and nothing else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    If McMillan works out you will say Dumars got lucky and it fell into his lap. If he doesn't work out you will say he is needs to be fired.

    See how easy it is?
    QFT

  21. #101
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    DAntoni To Hire Defensive Assistant - RealGM Wiretap

    Mike D'Antoni is considering adding a defensive assistant to his staff with the Los Angeles Lakers in the offseason.

    D'Antoni's first choice is believed to be Nate McMillan. The two coaches worked together as assistants with Team USA.

    McMillan, however, is expected to land a head coaching job.

    Alvin Gentry could fill the role, according to sources.
    VT

  22. #102
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    D'Antoni seriously has no clue what is going on. How is it that he keeps getting high profile jobs? He might be the worst coach in the NBA.

  23. #103
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    Why would that be bad for D'antoni to do??

  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Why would that be bad for D'antoni to do??
    It's not bad for him to do, but he has zero chance of getting a guy like McMillan to be a defensive coach for him. That's why I said he has no clue. Just like running an up temp offensive with slow big guys.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    If McMillan works out you will say Dumars got lucky and it fell into his lap. If he doesn't work out you will say he is needs to be fired.

    See how easy it is?
    I've never said Dumars was lucky. I think he deserves all the credit in the world for building a great team without a superstar. He was one of the best GMs in the league, if not the best.

    And then it all fell apart.

    In fact, I was in the camp that he deserved a chance to rebuild the team. Now I think he's had his chance and he's failed miserably. So he needs to go.
    the above opinion is not respected by Deleterious

  26. #106
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    https://twitter.com/GeryWoelfel/stat...10137261563905

    Bucks wined and dined Nate McMillan yesterday; will entertain Kelvin Sampson tomorrow.
    VT

  28. #108
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    Question: Are there any college coaches out there right now that you would entertain bringing in?
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  29. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by djhutch View Post
    Question: Are there any college coaches out there right now that you would entertain bringing in?
    Tom Crean, that dude can coach, and he actually seems likeable.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    Tom Crean, that dude can coach, and he actually seems likeable.
    Likeable? Judging from friends he's the most disliked coach in the conference.

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truth View Post
    Likeable? Judging from friends he's the most disliked coach in the conference.
    Well, I don't know his friends, I am just basing it off his interviews and how his players talk about him. His players speak very highly and he carries himself well in the media, so me that is likeable. I don't need him to be a real nice guy for him to be likeable.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    I've never said Dumars was lucky. I think he deserves all the credit in the world for building a great team without a superstar. He was one of the best GMs in the league, if not the best.

    And then it all fell apart.

    In fact, I was in the camp that he deserved a chance to rebuild the team. Now I think he's had his chance and he's failed miserably. So he needs to go.
    How long did it take your beloved Bulls to rebuild 15 years? And they had multiple #1 picks overall.

    Dumars had transformed the Pistons from one of the oldest teams to the youngest in the NBA, he has 3 rotation players out of his last 3 drafts (7/8/9), and has cleared out the most capspace in the NBA. The Pistons are in an upward trajectory at this time, he has done this with limitations for a few years with the ownership thing, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Dumars biggest mistake was trying to reload on the fly, he hung on a bit long.

    I will give Dumars this season to continue to show progress, I think the Pistons need to win 40+ games and make the playoffs.I trust Dumars is trying to build a championship team, rather then a team that can make the playoffs every now and again, ATL/PHIL/MIL, type teams.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    How long did it take your beloved Bulls to rebuild 15 years? And they had multiple #1 picks overall.

    Dumars had transformed the Pistons from one of the oldest teams to the youngest in the NBA, he has 3 rotation players out of his last 3 drafts (7/8/9), and has cleared out the most capspace in the NBA. The Pistons are in an upward trajectory at this time, he has done this with limitations for a few years with the ownership thing, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Dumars biggest mistake was trying to reload on the fly, he hung on a bit long.

    I will give Dumars this season to continue to show progress, I think the Pistons need to win 40+ games and make the playoffs.I trust Dumars is trying to build a championship team, rather then a team that can make the playoffs every now and again, ATL/PHIL/MIL, type teams.
    I'm sorry but i give Dumars little credit for most of this.
    The players that were drafted Monroe, Drummond and Knight were all clear BPA's at those spots. All of them were projected to go higher in most mocks so that was pure dumb luck that he ended up with them at that spot.

    Sure, he cleared out a lot of cap space but the team had cap issues in the first place because of his dumb moves in overpaying mediocre players.
    Also, the last time he had a bunch of cap space to work with, he signed stars like CV and BG so having cap space is one thing, making good use of that cap space is another story altogether.

    The only notable players on the roster are the 3 draftees. Everybody else is pretty much below average or completely useless. He has done nothing, absolutely nothing to improve the team.
    I haven't even mentioned the coaching carousel of ineptitude ever since Flip Saunders which has been nothing short of a complete gongshow, a bunch of sacrificial lambs who have been scapegoats due to Dumars's failures.

    I will always have fond memories of him building a championship caliber team that won a championship and went to 5 straight EC Finals but lets be honest, it has been all downhill for him in the last 5-7 years or so to the point of him being one of the worst GMs in the league. Most organizations would have canned him at least a couple of seasons ago but since he's a Pistons legend, he has been given a lot more rope than anybody else would have IMO and it has hurt this franchise.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    How long did it take your beloved Bulls to rebuild 15 years? And they had multiple #1 picks overall.

    Dumars had transformed the Pistons from one of the oldest teams to the youngest in the NBA, he has 3 rotation players out of his last 3 drafts (7/8/9), and has cleared out the most capspace in the NBA. The Pistons are in an upward trajectory at this time, he has done this with limitations for a few years with the ownership thing, whether you want to acknowledge that or not. Dumars biggest mistake was trying to reload on the fly, he hung on a bit long.

    I will give Dumars this season to continue to show progress, I think the Pistons need to win 40+ games and make the playoffs.I trust Dumars is trying to build a championship team, rather then a team that can make the playoffs every now and again, ATL/PHIL/MIL, type teams.
    I'd agree that the acquisitions of Monroe, Drummond and Knight are relative lights at the end of a long tunnel for the Pistons and give an appearance at least that Joe is looking in a new and better direction. Whether as a GM that makes up for gnawing on the cold dead bones of Rip, Sheed, Tay and Ben for far longer than he should of or the Iverson/Gordon/Stuckey mistakes and the coaching carousel is a hard call for me right now.
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    How do you call guys falling to 7,8 and 9 dumb luck. He could have just as easily been one of the 6+ GMs that passed on those guys. What a ridiculous statement.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    How do you call guys falling to 7,8 and 9 dumb luck. He could have just as easily been one of the 6+ GMs that passed on those guys. What a ridiculous statement.
    So you would call players falling to him as skill? Either way, Monroe and Knight are nothing to write home about.

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    I give him no credit for making the obvious picks at those spots. He was lucky that those guys fell into his lap, dumb luck. A blind monkey could have made those picks.
    Just look at the guys picked ahead of Monroe and Knight in their drafts. It's still early but most of those guys are busts or are just really underwhelming and there's only a select few behind them that are better. Say what you want about Monroe and Knight but they are amongst the best players in their draft class and Drummond was an obvious steal at 9.
    He got lucky to get those 3, plain and simple. It's not like he made a genius "reach" to take them or traded up or what not. I'm just calling it the way it is.

  38. #118
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    Joe was 100% lucky all three fell to Detroit.

    But the league didn't automatically assign Drummond to the Pistons when he fell. Joe still had to make that pick. I would rip him to shreds if he passed on Drummond and he was a success on another team. So I have to give him credit for drafting him too.

    The give him credit or don't give him credit debate doesn't interest me that much. I'm more interested in how big of a mistake was Monroe over Paul George? How big of a mistake was Knight over Klay Thompson?
    VT

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Joe was 100% lucky all three fell to Detroit.

    But the league didn't automatically assign Drummond to the Pistons when he fell. Joe still had to make that pick. I would rip him to shreds if he passed on Drummond and he was a success on another team. So I have to give him credit for drafting him too.

    The give him credit or don't give him credit debate doesn't interest me that much. I'm more interested in how big of a mistake was Monroe over Paul George? How big of a mistake was Knight over Klay Thompson?
    And to go further back, Daye over Lawson.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by T&P_Fan View Post
    And to go further back, Daye over Lawson.
    Absolutely. Hell, Holiday/Lawson/Teague can all be included.

    Joe definitely had delusions of grandeur regarding Stuckey's PG prowess.
    VT

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