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  1. #321
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    Monroe and Drummond were invited to the Team USA mini-camp this summer.

  2. #322
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  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Well that was predictable.
    Check out the replay of Vincent Goodwill's Pistons chat | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    Comment From Fred
    Do you think Phil Jackson consultant is just a smoke screen? Any possibility he's running the Pistons next year?
    12:28

    Vinnie Goodwill: I think it was a play for attention from Gores and Jackson. Jackson is on that book tour and had that setup with the Seattle franchise. I think it was risky from Gores POV to let someone in behind the curtain who could be a competitor pretty soon

  4. #324
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    A friend of Dumars getting snippy!
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  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    Well that was predictable.
    I guess I don't get what Gores is trying to do here, was his intentions sincere or was he just posturing? So now Dumars, who was retained, is having to deal with the opinion of someone who isn't even on the payroll of the Pistons. Good decisions are rarely made when one party is trying to cater to the other while taking care of their own agenda first.

    Either replace Joe or give him autonomy. I think before this I thought it was a good idea to have Phil on board, but now I just don't see it making sense. The last coaching hire was influenced by Gore, now again it seems like a tug-o-war. I like owners that get involved (Cuban) but I detest owners who meddle on an infrequent basis during crucial times of decision making.

    Get this figured out.

  6. #326
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    They already didn't let him hire the last coach, so this isn't that different.

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    They already didn't let him hire the last coach, so this isn't that different.
    That's what I am saying...stop with this nonsense.

  8. #328
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    Which reporter who gets his news from Joe Dumars told us that he didn't hire the last coach? :)

    So what was the point of bringing in Phil Jackson again? So he could use the Pistons to promote his new book and get one of his boys hired? Was that the magical influence of the successful head coach all you guys were talking about before?
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  9. #329
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    I've read a lot of national stuff saying things like "its widely known that Joe didn't hire the last coach. He wanted Mike Woodson but Gores came in and picked Frank". Who knows I guess, but its not some local Detroit writer who is JOe's friend leaking a story to make him look good or anything like that from what I can tell.

  10. #330
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    5 Free Agents Detroit Must Avoid

    I can't argue with his logic. Problem is, Detroit has a lot of money in a bad year to have that kind of money (again...nice job Joe). So, hopefully Joe can get creative with trades otherwise I fear we'll be looking at Smith in a Piston's uniform.
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

  11. #331
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    pretty lazy article. Not entirely untrue though.

  12. #332
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    Maybe Monroe developing a mid range game isn't the way to go.

    This is a chart that shows points per attempt for every NBA shot from 2006-2011.


  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    I've read a lot of national stuff saying things like "its widely known that Joe didn't hire the last coach. He wanted Mike Woodson but Gores came in and picked Frank". Who knows I guess, but its not some local Detroit writer who is JOe's friend leaking a story to make him look good or anything like that from what I can tell.
    National writers often do not have special insight on teams and it isn't uncommon for them to recycle an existing theme already forwarded by a local writer.

    I don't know if Frank was Gores hire (I suspect it was, FWIW), but the fact national writers have reported it as such after it was reported locally means little to me.

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Maybe Monroe developing a mid range game isn't the way to go.

    This is a chart that shows points per attempt for every NBA shot from 2006-2011.

    This was what Lawrence Frank pushed. I heard him talking about it in an interview on Piston's Live. He preached getting in close to the basket or getting out to the 3 ball. Unless it's your bread and butter (like Rip), guys shouldn't be shooting mid or long range twos because they yield low points per shot attempt.
    Matt Millen never left Detroit - he just started wearing a very convincing Joe Dumars costume.

  15. #335
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    Isiah Thomas recently earned his Masters degree in Education from the University of California.

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    National writers often do not have special insight on teams and it isn't uncommon for them to recycle an existing theme already forwarded by a local writer.

    I don't know if Frank was Gores hire (I suspect it was, FWIW), but the fact national writers have reported it as such after it was reported locally means little to me.
    It could be wrong, I technically can't prove anything, but I haven't heard of one person who thinks DUmars hired Frank.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    It could be wrong, I technically can't prove anything, but I haven't heard of one person who thinks DUmars hired Frank.
    I think most people assumed Dumars hired Frank because Dumars is the GM. Since Frank started failing and was going to be fired, the ONLY news about "who hired Frank" has been that Gores did it.

    Just like after Kuester started to fail and all the news was "Dumars never wanted to hire him..."

    I detect a pattern.
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  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    I think most people assumed Dumars hired Frank because Dumars is the GM. Since Frank started failing and was going to be fired, the ONLY news about "who hired Frank" has been that Gores did it.

    Just like after Kuester started to fail and all the news was "Dumars never wanted to hire him..."

    I detect a pattern.
    Your view of history is the revisionist one, it was said at the time that the owner (who outranks the GM) and Dave Checketts advisory committee wanted Frank.

    Pistons Set To Hire Lawrence Frank - Winning Hoops

    So yes there is a pattern, the reporters are reporting what is common knowledge.

    The Kuester thing, never heard that, all I heard about that was that they didn't want to spend a lot on the coach because of the ownership situation and they weren't going to contend anyway.
    Last edited by DrWho17; 05-27-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  19. #339
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    Lionel Hollins is now done with his season. Hopefully Joe asks for permission to talk with him. Odds are slim to none he comes here, but you still have to try.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Your view of history is the revisionist one, it was said at the time that the owner (who outranks the GM) and Dave Checketts advisory committee wanted Frank.

    Pistons Set To Hire Lawrence Frank - Winning Hoops.
    BOOM!!!!

    just kidding...bored
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  21. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho17 View Post
    Your view of history is the revisionist one, it was said at the time that the owner (who outranks the GM) and Dave Checketts advisory committee wanted Frank.

    Pistons Set To Hire Lawrence Frank - Winning Hoops

    So yes there is a pattern, the reporters are reporting what is common knowledge.

    The Kuester thing, never heard that, all I heard about that was that they didn't want to spend a lot on the coach because of the ownership situation and they weren't going to contend anyway.
    Stein is usually pretty good, but what a terrible article that is. The growing influence of Dave Checketts? Has anyone heard a peep from or about Checketts since they hired Frank?

    Stein completely and totally got that wrong. So why should it shock anyone he got it wrong about Dumars not hiring Frank? In fact:

    Michael Rosenberg: Assertion that Joe Dumars was forced to hire Lawrence Frank is ‘laughable’ « PistonPowered

    Rosenberg:

    “Any assertion that Joe Dumars was somehow coerced into hiring Lawrence Frank is laughable. Frank has been the likely choice for weeks.”
    Goodwill:

    Contrary to what’s been posted nationally, this was not a Dave Checketts move, IMO…a little heavy-handed stuff to this point

  22. #342
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    Blah, Bobcats are going to go for the tank again next year, hired Steve Clifford, uh ok.

  23. #343
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  24. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Stein is usually pretty good, but what a terrible article that is. The growing influence of Dave Checketts? Has anyone heard a peep from or about Checketts since they hired Frank?

    Stein completely and totally got that wrong. So why should it shock anyone he got it wrong about Dumars not hiring Frank? In fact:

    Michael Rosenberg: Assertion that Joe Dumars was forced to hire Lawrence Frank is ‘laughable’ « PistonPowered

    Rosenberg:



    Goodwill:
    BaBoom part Duex - less bored but still...
    Tigerbrand coffee is a real treat, even tigers prefer it to real meat.

  25. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    Stein is usually pretty good, but what a terrible article that is. The growing influence of Dave Checketts? Has anyone heard a peep from or about Checketts since they hired Frank?

    Stein completely and totally got that wrong. So why should it shock anyone he got it wrong about Dumars not hiring Frank? In fact:

    Michael Rosenberg: Assertion that Joe Dumars was forced to hire Lawrence Frank is ‘laughable’ « PistonPowered

    Rosenberg:



    Goodwill:
    BOOM!

    Not bored, just tired of the revisionist history of the Joe Dumars fan club.
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  26. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deleterious View Post
    :( Great, we'll end up with some coach whose been fired and failed once already or another former player. Flip a coin, Nate McMillan is heads and Lindsay Hunter is tales.
    Who knew after all these years Joe Dumars was really playing a dual role as both himself and his alter-ego Ken Holland.

  27. #347
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    Not saying whether it was Joe's choice or not (even from the reports that say he had a say, they still admit he preferred Woodson)...But Rosenberg and Goodwill just seem to be voicing opinion while Stein, who is unarguably one of the best writers on the NBA around, is quoting guys he considers sources inside the team.
    I also don't see how the lack of Checkett's public involvement since means anything about his being right or wrong in this story. Checkett's isn't a team employee, he was hired as a consultant during the coaching search, not as GM or Pres. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but not hearing his name in stories doesn't mean much of anything. Maybe he was only hired on as a consultant for the coaching search. Maybe they listened to him during the search and he fell out of favor just as quickly. Either way, no one on this board has any clue. I certainly trust Stein over Goodwill. And obviously it's not insane to think that the Gores would undermine their GM that they've given a vote of confidence to since they're doing it now with the hiring of Jackson in the same capacity it seems Checkett's was hired. I don't know one way or the other but if I'm going to trust any of the reporters listed in these three stories it would be Stein first.
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  28. #348
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    Dumars is one of the top GMs in the last 15 years in the NBA. He created one of the most consistent teams in NBA history and won a title as a GM. His track record is actually very strong compared to the vast majority of GMs in the league. And I think that is why a new owner like Gores is very reluctant to let him go.

    While Dumars has been great, he has also dropped the ball for years now. At some point, the 04 season is a distant memory and we have to judge Dumars on what he has done lately (which is bad). This is the off-season that determines it all for Joe D. He has lots of cap space, a lottery pick and a bunch of young players (along with a lot of cap space next year).

  29. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Dumars is one of the top GMs in the last 15 years in the NBA. He created one of the most consistent teams in NBA history and won a title as a GM. His track record is actually very strong compared to the vast majority of GMs in the league. And I think that is why a new owner like Gores is very reluctant to let him go.

    While Dumars has been great, he has also dropped the ball for years now. At some point, the 04 season is a distant memory and we have to judge Dumars on what he has done lately (which is bad). This is the off-season that determines it all for Joe D. He has lots of cap space, a lottery pick and a bunch of young players (along with a lot of cap space next year).
    Yes, that is where I am at also, it's not that I am a part of the "Joe Dumars" fan club, I just look at all the NBA teams out there that have won NOTHING. They switch GM's every few years and never get anywhere. I think his rebuilding plan is going well, even without a top lottery pick, he's grabbed some solid pieces. I am giving him next year to get the team in the playoffs, I did not expect them to get there this year, 41 wins or bust next year.

    If Drummond stays healthy next year I am confident they won't have to add all that much, he is a player who makes others better on the court by just being out there. Add a guy like Shabazz to put up points in the draft and I am happy.

  30. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TaterSalad View Post
    :( Great, we'll end up with some coach whose been fired and failed once already or another former player. Flip a coin, Nate McMillan is heads and Lindsay Hunter is tales.
    Someone with an experience or someone who has played the game! How terrible!

  31. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Dumars is one of the top GMs in the last 15 years in the NBA. He created one of the most consistent teams in NBA history and won a title as a GM. His track record is actually very strong compared to the vast majority of GMs in the league. And I think that is why a new owner like Gores is very reluctant to let him go.

    While Dumars has been great, he has also dropped the ball for years now. At some point, the 04 season is a distant memory and we have to judge Dumars on what he has done lately (which is bad). This is the off-season that determines it all for Joe D. He has lots of cap space, a lottery pick and a bunch of young players (along with a lot of cap space next year).
    I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that he has been bad of late. He has plenty of bad moves on his record, but he has some good ones too. Especially since the sale. Drummond,Monroe,Calderon,Knight(solid not great),Jerebko and even guys like Singler and Middleton are looking like solid 2nd roudners. At the least, Joe has a very, very strong draft record, even with guys like Darko,Daye,Cleaves and White on his record.

  32. #352
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    The excuses are already starting. Saw this on another forum. I don't really know how valid the site is.

    http://www.rantsports.com/nba/2013/0...pYch2vpWI1s.99

    There are reports that team president Joe Dumars likes Bickerstaff a lot, but he’s likely to get overruled in this case.

  33. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    Someone with an experience or someone who has played the game! How terrible!
    Michael Curry played the game. Yes, how terrible.
    Who knew after all these years Joe Dumars was really playing a dual role as both himself and his alter-ego Ken Holland.

  34. #354
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    Cavaliers, Bobcats, Mavericks rumored to be interested in DeMarcus Cousins | ProBasketballTalk

    Can we just please trade for DeMarcus Cousins already? I'll give the Kings anything or anyone they want not named Andre Drummond. Joe, please, please make it happen.
    Who knew after all these years Joe Dumars was really playing a dual role as both himself and his alter-ego Ken Holland.

  35. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Dumars is one of the top GMs in the last 15 years in the NBA. He created one of the most consistent teams in NBA history and won a title as a GM. His track record is actually very strong compared to the vast majority of GMs in the league. And I think that is why a new owner like Gores is very reluctant to let him go.

    While Dumars has been great, he has also dropped the ball for years now. At some point, the 04 season is a distant memory and we have to judge Dumars on what he has done lately (which is bad). This is the off-season that determines it all for Joe D. He has lots of cap space, a lottery pick and a bunch of young players (along with a lot of cap space next year).
    I said all this the year he signed Gordon and Charlie V. I thought he deserved a chance to rebuild after creating such a great team. Since that time his moves have not panned out and have been very detrimental to the team. His coaching hires have been terrible. His draft picks other than Drummond have been average at best.

    I feel he has had his chance to rebuild the team and failed. Why does he deserve yet another chance?
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  36. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TaterSalad View Post
    Michael Curry played the game. Yes, how terrible.
    So did Phil Jackson and Pat Riley.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.TaterSalad View Post
    Cavaliers, Bobcats, Mavericks rumored to be interested in DeMarcus Cousins | ProBasketballTalk

    Can we just please trade for DeMarcus Cousins already? I'll give the Kings anything or anyone they want not named Andre Drummond. Joe, please, please make it happen.
    No thank you.

  37. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    No thank you.
    You see more potential with a Monroe/Drummond paring long-term than you do Cousins/Drummond?
    Who knew after all these years Joe Dumars was really playing a dual role as both himself and his alter-ego Ken Holland.

  38. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitCity313 View Post
    Dumars is one of the top GMs in the last 15 years in the NBA. He created one of the most consistent teams in NBA history and won a title as a GM. His track record is actually very strong compared to the vast majority of GMs in the league. And I think that is why a new owner like Gores is very reluctant to let him go.

    While Dumars has been great, he has also dropped the ball for years now. At some point, the 04 season is a distant memory and we have to judge Dumars on what he has done lately (which is bad). This is the off-season that determines it all for Joe D. He has lots of cap space, a lottery pick and a bunch of young players (along with a lot of cap space next year).
    I lost count of how many off seasons were supposed to be the one we can finally make a decision on Joe D because there have been so many.

    sportz was right about Joe back in 08 or whatever. It is OK to admit that.

  39. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth View Post
    I lost count of how many off seasons were supposed to be the one we can finally make a decision on Joe D because there have been so many.

    sportz was right about Joe back in 08 or whatever. It is OK to admit that.
    Next year will be 10 years since the Pistons won a championship with Dumars as GM. I would say that's enough time where the championship gives Dumars a "free pass".

  40. #360
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    At least Joe got them out from under the long term bad contracts for terrible players. Well, at least until July when he will probably reload on long term bad contracts for terrible players.

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