Is Schwartz on the hot seat?

**belcherboy** · 12-09-2012, 11:51 PM

I've never really been a fan of his. He has done some good here in Detroit, but IMO has underachieved the past season and a half.

Is his job on the hot seat? Should it be?

I'd like the Lions to look at a new coach. I think this team could be MUCH better with the right coach. Hopefully a high pick can help fill some of the gaps, regardless of who is coaching, but I would like to see someone new get a shot at this team.

**Dawgs** · 12-09-2012, 11:53 PM

Probably see the coordinators go first.

**DTroppens** · 12-09-2012, 11:56 PM

Not at all. He'll be back next year. Unless the team goes something like 5-11 next year, he'll be back in two years.

I guess if could be different with a change in owner, but we all know what that would take.

**RandyMarsh** · 12-10-2012, 12:08 AM

I don't know if he is, but imo he should be. This will be the 3rd time in 4 years that he's finished in last place. Yes people will bring up the fact that he took over an 0-16 team, but the previous year the Lions were 7-9. So outside of that 08 outlier the Lions were basically anywhere between 3 and 7 wins the previous few years before Schwartz, and outside of the 2011 outlier they have basically been a 2-6 win team under him. There's no doubt that they are more talented than those previous teams, and play more competitively than them, but ultimately what it boils down to is wins and losses, and quite frankly Schwartz isn't winning enough. He shouldn't continue to get a free pass because the previous regime sucked, in this day and age in the NFL teams can turn it around very quickly so I'm tired of hearing the excuses about what he took over.

**monkeynuts** · 12-10-2012, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Not at all. He'll be back next year. Unless the team goes something like 5-11 next year, he'll be back in two years.

I guess if could be different with a change in owner, but we all know what that would take.

Agreed. I might have some differences with him, but he certainly deserves next season.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-10-2012, 12:32 AM

He's safe for this year. Mr. Linehan and Mr. Crossman are not.

But if they fail to make the playoffs next year, he will probably be gone.

**DTroppens** · 12-10-2012, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by monkeynuts

Agreed. I might have some differences with him, but he certainly deserves next season.

I personally think he gets next year. After that, who knows? But I know if WCF is still alive it's going to take a pretty awful season for there even to be consideration of him being fired regardless what I think or not. Right now, no, I wouldn't even consider firing him barring some sort of news we don't know about.

**Kamakzie** · 12-10-2012, 02:09 AM

Of course Schwartz isn't on the hot seat. Any owner that kept Millen around as long as he did isn't the kind of owner who makes rash moves.

**djhutch** · 12-10-2012, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

He's safe for this year. Mr. Linehan and Mr. Crossman are not.

But if they fail to make the playoffs next year, he will probably be gone.

I'd think that Cunningham would be more under fire than Linehan. The NFL is a passing league. Stafford is #2 in passing yards. Calvin Johnson is tops in receiving. They could use a RB & another receiver after the Titus Young implosion (which they should have seen coming).

The same cannot be said for the defense. They've under-performed. I personally think it doesn't have anything to do with Suh (as some have suggested). It's more lack of talent.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-10-2012, 08:49 AM

Well, I don't see Schwartz getting fired, based on how the Lions do things, but he absolutely should be fired. Schwartz has no idea how to coach a disciplined team in the NFL.

We have seen the same problems every single week and nothing changes. 5 losses in a row now and its the same quotes, week after week.

If Schwartz is back next year it will be the same thing, a team with talent who underachieves.

**Buddha** · 12-10-2012, 08:55 AM

No way he gets fired. Unless WCF doesn't like him.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-10-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by djhutch

I'd think that Cunningham would be more under fire than Linehan. The NFL is a passing league. Stafford is #2 in passing yards. Calvin Johnson is tops in receiving. They could use a RB & another receiver after the Titus Young implosion (which they should have seen coming).

The same cannot be said for the defense. They've under-performed. I personally think it doesn't have anything to do with Suh (as some have suggested). It's more lack of talent.

Can't hard Gunther with that secondary and those linebackers - that's on Mayhew.

**belcherboy** · 12-10-2012, 09:58 AM

The Lions just haven't looked prepared for most of the past 18-20 regular season games they have played. I know WCF likes to stick with his guys, and hates change, but I can't imagine that Schwartz isn't on the hot seat at the end of this season. I would be sorely disappointed that if he wins 6 games or less next year, that he returns to coach the Lions in 2014. He probably deserves another year, but I just don't see anything from this team that makes me think he has done well developing the talent of this team. Detroit really should be a 10 game winning team this year, and barring injury to key players, for the next 3-4 years. Although maybe my expectations are too high.

**Gehringer_2** · 12-10-2012, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by djhutch

I'd think that Cunningham would be more under fire than Linehan. The NFL is a passing league. Stafford is #2 in passing yards. Calvin Johnson is tops in receiving. They could use a RB & another receiver after the Titus Young implosion (which they should have seen coming).

The same cannot be said for the defense. They've under-performed. I personally think it doesn't have anything to do with Suh (as some have suggested). It's more lack of talent.

My take on the NFL game is that the real key to building a defense is balance. A good NFL offense is going to be able to attack you where ever you are weakest, so NFL defense is always a matter of shoring up your weakest link as the highest priority. So the weakest defensive link and enough depth to overcome injuries at any position are keys to NFL team building. It would have been impossible for the Lions to do any worse at these things than under Millen, so they had to get better, but I still don't think they have done them all that well. I don't know how the draft decision responsibilities divide up between Mayhew and Schwartz, but between them they haven't shown themselves able to manage talent acquisition well enough to take the step past mediocrity.

But WCF is probably pretty much on auto-pilot at this point. His MO has been that as long as he has a couple of stars to advertise (which the Lions do have), he is happy enough.

**DrWho17** · 12-10-2012, 01:33 PM

I think they should give him another year, however there are many troubling things that keep re-occurring.

Their gameplan doesn't seem to work well in the opening quarters, the other team comes out with a better plan and usually gets the jump on them.

When they do get a lead, they seem to relax, no sense of keeping up the pressure, once the other team gets rolling they are unstoppable.

Lack of adjustments, once the opponent finds something that works they keep hitting it, Lions run defense seems to leave some huge holes out there, and are vulnerable to the same play over and over within the same game.

When the Lions do fall behind, sometimes they lack urgency out there.

All of these issues I believe are more coaching related then player related, and they are not getting fixed. Not to mention the attitude issues we see with the Lions on/off the field.

**Detroit Rock City** · 12-10-2012, 08:30 PM

While he should be on the hot seat right now, he has at least another year due to making the playoffs last year. That's just how it is. Now if he loses out this season and they start poorly next year, then he's gone fast.

I won't blame Cunningham for the defense. In most of their games, the defense has played well enough to win, especially the home games against Minny, GB, Houston, and Indy. The defense has been undermanned with little talent in the secondary and have been in most games. I want Linehan gone the moment the season ends. His gameplans are awful, he makes no adjustments, doesn't get Calvin going early and often, and tries to force the run waaaay too much. If Norv Turner is available, the Lions should jump on him promptly once the Chargers can him. He has always been a better coordinator than coach and would certainly be the best option out there.

**NYLion** · 12-10-2012, 10:20 PM

He's not on the hot seat but he really REALLY should be.
Here's a fun fact.... The team is 9-16 in their last 25 games, let that sink in for a minute. A team with Stafford, CJ and Suh as the core is 9-16 in their last 25. That's pitiful and a lot of these games, they are either unprepared to start the game or can't finish and a lot of that IMO, has to do with faulty gameplanning and poor in game adjustments by the coaching staff. It is quite simply a poorly coached team and Schwartz should be held accountable.
Unfortunately, a flukey 5 game winning streak in the beginning of last season basically bought Schwartz a free season to fall back on.

**RandyMarsh** · 12-10-2012, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by NYLion

He's not on the hot seat but he really REALLY should be.
Here's a fun fact.... The team is 9-16 in their last 25 games, let that sink in for a minute. A team with Stafford, CJ and Suh as the core is 9-16 in their last 25. That's pitiful and a lot of these games, they are either unprepared to start the game or can't finish and a lot of that IMO, has to do with faulty gameplanning and poor in game adjustments by the coaching staff. It is quite simply a poorly coached team and Schwartz should be held accountable.
Unfortunately, a flukey 5 game winning streak in the beginning of last season basically bought Schwartz a free season to fall back on.

Good post, on top of that under Schwartz we only had 2 maybe 3 quality wins. The win in 2010 against GB(even though Rodgers missed over half the game), last year on MNF against Chicago and the 3rd is this year at home against Seattle.(That's debatable if you even want to call them a quality team away from Seattle) Other than that even the few wins Schwartz has have come against bad teams. So for the most part his teams don't rise up and beat any quality teams, and certainly very few elite teams, and even the games they should win they struggle with. Every game they either start slow or finish slow, they still make stupid penalties, they are undisciplined and almost always do things that make you scratch your head.

And he has this mediocre record despite having a very capable QB and the best receiver in football. Really those 2 things are probably the only thing keeping him from having a Mariucci or even Marinelli like record with us.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-16-2012, 05:52 PM

Keeps putting Logan in. Team has no discipline. I like the guy, but I have had enough. He needs to go. The whole coaching staff and front office need to go.

**Kamakzie** · 12-16-2012, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

Keeps putting Logan in. Team has no discipline. I like the guy, but I have had enough. He needs to go. The whole coaching staff and front office need to go.

Wholeheartedly agree..

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-16-2012, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

Wholeheartedly agree..

And I totally believe he was the right guy to get them from 0-16 to respectable. But it takes a much better coach to go from respectable to serious contender and I just don't think he has the maturity to lead them there. He acts too much like a player.

**belcherboy** · 12-16-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

And I totally believe he was the right guy to get them from 0-16 to respectable. But it takes a much better coach to go from respectable to serious contender and I just don't think he has the maturity to lead them there. He acts too much like a player.

I agree. I thought he did good for the 0-16 team, but they have lost MANY very winnable games over the past 25 games, and I think most of them have been greatly affected by the coaching. I hope they make the move this year, rather then wait. This team, especially with a high draft pick(s), could be great with the right coach IMO.

**Kamakzie** · 12-16-2012, 06:42 PM

Chip Kelly anyone?

**CapitalTigers** · 12-16-2012, 06:43 PM

Whole coaching staff must go.. Even if team wins today.

**CapitalTigers** · 12-16-2012, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

Chip Kelly anyone?

I'd take Don at this point!

**belcherboy** · 12-16-2012, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

Chip Kelly anyone?

I'm not a big Chip Kelly fan either.

I know it's a long shot, but I would write a blank check to Nick Saban. Idk if he would take it, but I'd make the offer if I were a billionaire owner of the Lions.

**Scottish caveman** · 12-16-2012, 06:50 PM

It seems to me this team is incredibly undisciplined and ultimately lack toughness....they are dirty , but never fight and fight like say the Steelers...they may score late and come from behind in the past, but that seems to be talent, not toughness !

**TigersSlappy** · 12-16-2012, 07:04 PM

6 weeks ago I would have said no way. But I think they need a change now. The talent seems to be there but not the performance.

**Porcelain God** · 12-16-2012, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by TigersSlappy

6 weeks ago I would have said no way. But I think they need a change now. The talent seems to be there but not the performance.

Completely agree but do not think it will happen. WCF always keeps his employees too long.

**belcherboy** · 12-16-2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Porcelain God

Completely agree but do not think it will happen. WCF always keeps his employees too long.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a coaching change next year. Schwartz has 2 games to get back into it, but with the Bears fighting for a playoff spot, I see them being MUCH more motivated to win than the Lions. I think the Lions lose at least 1 of the last two games, and with a blowout to a terrible team like Arizona, I think it will be enough to make the change.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-16-2012, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by belcherboy

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict a coaching change next year. Schwartz has 2 games to get back into it, but with the Bears fighting for a playoff spot, I see them being MUCH more motivated to win than the Lions. I think the Lions lose at least 1 of the last two games, and with a blowout to a terrible team like Arizona, I think it will be enough to make the change.

Really? They aren't beating the Bears, the Bears will destroy them. And even if the Falcons have clinched everything, the Packers had last year too, and they started a guy that never started a game before and they torched the Lions, a much better Lions team than this one. Made that guy a multi-millionaire. Best job ever.....back up QB for millions, doesn't take a beating............thanks Lions.

4-12.

**Kamakzie** · 12-16-2012, 07:59 PM

Ford showing he has the tenacity that he wants to win? Call me skeptical..

**Kamakzie** · 12-16-2012, 08:09 PM

How old is Ford?? 84? Would be nice if he finally grew a set and fired someone when they need it!

**nd1377** · 12-16-2012, 09:46 PM

For once in my life, I would love for the Lions to get a great coach that fans had confidence in.

In the NFL, a good coach can make enough of a difference to turn a mediocre team into a good to great team quickly. The best example of this is Jim Harbaugh.

TJ · 12-16-2012, 09:50 PM

When Millen was fired, the entire organization from the GM down to the towel boys should have been nuked down to the blocks.

The entire roster -- every last player --- with the exception of Calvin Johnson, should have been traded or waived the very second it was legally possible to do so.

Now?

Mayhew and the entire coaching staff must be nuked. Any player with more than 5 years tenure on the team, dumped.

**LineCrosser** · 12-16-2012, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Motor City Sonics

Keeps putting Logan in. Team has no discipline. I like the guy, but I have had enough. He needs to go. The whole coaching staff and front office need to go.

The only thing I disagree with is the Logan shot (that is, if it relates to the turnover today). That was ALL on Pat Lee.

Three weeks ago, I would have said I want Schwartz in for the long haul, and I've been a huge supporter of his. But this team is consistently undisciplined on the field, and in a multitude of ways. If their special teams play well, the receivers run lazy routes. If the receivers run crisp routes, we commit stupid penalties. If we play a clean game penalty-wise, Stafford can't hit the side of a barn. And then Schwartz won't even show any passion for the loss! It's maddening.

They can't put enough together on any one day to win. It's pathetic and ugly and I'm damned sick of it. I think he gets at least one more year at least, though I'm all for letting him go in two weeks.

That said, we still don't even know how long his contract is. That's how tight-lipped this organization is. We have no idea how long our coach in under contract. I doubt it, but maybe he's not even under contract after week 17.

**LineCrosser** · 12-16-2012, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by TJ

When Millen was fired, the entire organization from the GM down to the towel boys should have been nuked down to the blocks.

The entire roster -- every last player --- with the exception of Calvin Johnson, should have been traded or waived the very second it was legally possible to do so.

Now?

Mayhew and the entire coaching staff must be nuked. Any player with more than 5 years tenure on the team, dumped.

That pretty much happened. Mayhew nearly completely turned over the roster in the span of a couple years.

**Kamakzie** · 12-16-2012, 10:03 PM

Mayhew and Lewand shouldn't have been retained with Millen's firing. It just shows you how inept the Ford's are. You sweep all the stink out not just some of it.

TJ · 12-16-2012, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by LineCrosser

That pretty much happened. Mayhew nearly completely turned over the roster in the span of a couple years.

Career losers like Backus and Raiola are still here.

They should have been summarily cut -- sent walking out the door.

**Detroit Rock City** · 12-16-2012, 11:04 PM

They will fire Schwartz before going after Lewand and Mayhew. You have to make a change after how this have fallen so fast this year. Linehan must go, Schwartz must go, Raiola and Backus must go. All of the losers have to be gone at the start of next season.

And God no I do not want Chip Kelly. Gimmicky offense from college won't work with how the Lions are built. It's exactly why the Pistons fired Carlise to hire Brown cause he could get them over the top. Schwartz took them from winless to 10 wins. Now they need THE GUY to take them to contenders. Need a great draft, hire the right coaches, fill in depth, and hope Stafford fixes his problems.