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  1. #1
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    Default In the second round of the 2012 Draft the Lions....




    Here's a thread for speculation and talk about what the Lions do in the second round. Right now they have the 22nd pick. But did you realize that only half of the 32 first round picks actually where original picks? Fully 16 picks were traded around in the first round. I suspect the 2nd round will be just as wild, if not more so. Already 6 picks are not with their original teams.

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    Josh Robinson in a trade up

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    I have a feeling the Lions will trade up to grab someone... but I have no idea who!
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    Janoris Jenkins
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    No need to trade up. There are plenty of CB's out there. Josh Robinson.
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    I want Janoris Jenkins in the worst way but we would have to move up...

    I'll say LB Zach Brown (want David but he will be gone IMO)

    We'll find a CB in Rd 3 or trade back into Rd 2.

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    I'd like to see
    Cordy Glenn (if he falls)
    Maybe a Peter Konz

    Janoris Jenkins
    Brandon Boykin
    Bobby Wagner
    Maybe even a George Illoka.

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    Janoris Jenkins is supposed to be the hot name at the top of the 2nd right now...

    I think to get him, Cordy Glenn, or Konz, you have to get to the top 5 or so of the 2nd.

    Here's a wild-*** scenario: Would you trade our 2013 1st rounder and this year's 2nd rounder to get the Rams 1st pick of the 2nd, and the 13th pick in the 2nd? Would they do that trade?

    Pick Cordy Glenn or Konz with the 1st pick, and then whoever is available of the other one, Jenkins, Zach Brown, Josh Robinson, Lamar Miller, Chris Polk, Mychal Kendricks, Vinny Curry, LaMichael James, Jon Martin, Stephen Hill (one of those guys would be there at 13...)?

    If you don't get a CB in the 2nd, there's still Josh Norman in the 3rd, or trade a 5th rounder to the Cowboys for Mike Jenkins (they're trying to dump him right now per the rumor-mill)?

    I would trade next year's 1st rounder for the Rams #1 2nd round pick as I think Konz and Glenn are 1st round talents, we should be picking very late next year anyways (I know... don't count chickens...); and we get those guys at a discounted price (salary-wise) and for an extra year. Plus... if we can talk the Rams into the #13 pick for our #22, it's close to a net-zero loss...

    Thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 84 Lives!!! View Post
    Here's a wild-*** scenario: Would you trade our 2013 1st rounder and this year's 2nd rounder to get the Rams 1st pick of the 2nd, and the 13th pick in the 2nd? Would they do that trade?
    Emotionally this is really hard to do. I mean, giving up a first rounder for a second rounder? Just the sound of that makes it feel off and wrong. I think emotionally fans expect to see something much more proven than just a draft pick.

    Having said that, logically, it might make sense. Assuming we make the playoffs again, we're looking at a pick of around the same location we're at this year. So we're essentially trading a 23rd for a 33rd pick... dropping 10 places. And we're getting their 13th for our 22nd, essentially moving up 9 places. It's about a wash looking at pure numbers.

    The two sides questions of course are: Does the talent level that is available right now (ie, 1-13 picks of second round) warrant a move up like this? Could we reasonable expect who we're taking at 1 and 13 in round two to equal, talent-wise, what we're take at 22 in round two, and next year in the first round? I'm not a big enough scout type to know the answer.

    And of course, question two is: Where will we draft in the first round next year? If we make it to the NFC Champ game or better, we'd be drafting 29, 30, 31, or 32... which is means it probably would be a good deal for us. But if we have a down year compared to 2011 and end up drafting 20th or sooner, then the trade looks much more favorable to the Rams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    Emotionally this is really hard to do. I mean, giving up a first rounder for a second rounder? Just the sound of that makes it feel off and wrong. I think emotionally fans expect to see something much more proven than just a draft pick.

    Having said that, logically, it might make sense...

    ...Where will we draft in the first round next year? If we make it to the NFC Champ game or better, we'd be drafting 29, 30, 31, or 32... which is means it probably would be a good deal for us. But if we have a down year compared to 2011 and end up drafting 20th or sooner, then the trade looks much more favorable to the Rams.
    Yeah, it's complicated.

    We'd be taking a risk that we don't regress next year, and that a player at #1 this year is roughly equivalent to a 20-ish to 30-ish player next year.

    IMO: I think it's a risk worth taking. I think Glenn is a monster and roughly equal to a DeCastro. I would also be interested in taking a chance on Konz. I think O-Lineman, for whatever reason this year (reaches on DE's, WR's, etc...), got pushed down more than they should have. Which opens up the possibility of getting a higher level of talented player, really, someone that deserves a 1st round selection anyways...

    The key to me, and probably why the Rams would shoot this down, is moving up from #22 to #13, guaranteeing that we get another player at the top of our list (or at least someone who would be higher than whatever choice we'd be left with at #22).

    The "net-zero" loss is quite appealing...

    But yeah, trading a next year's 1st for this year's 2nd is always "antethema"!!!
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    84 Lives!!!'s Avatar
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    IE:

    Let's say we selected Konz and LaVonte David... worth it?

    OR: Zach Brown and Josh Robinson... worth it?

    Glenn and Lamar Miller or Vinny Curry... worth it?
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    Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.
    He was saying trading a 1st and 2nd for 2 2nds in his idea. I really don't see how STL does it though as there is too little risk for us IMO. I think there is a better chance that we are picking lower than 23 next year than there is of us picking higher than 23 and thus for us to move up 9 spots for their other 2nd is a pipe dream IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4hzglory View Post
    He was saying trading a 1st and 2nd for 2 2nds in his idea.
    Yeah, it's a 1st and a second for a second and a second...

    I really don't see how STL does it though as there is too little risk for us IMO. I think there is a better chance that we are picking lower than 23 next year than there is of us picking higher than 23 and thus for us to move up 9 spots for their other 2nd is a pipe dream IMO.
    They might for two reasons:

    First, just like the idea of trade back a 1 for a 2 is emotionally hard (even if logically right), so would trade a 2 for a 1 be emotionally easy (even if logically not). As much as I'd hate to not have a first round next year, in the same way it would be exciting to have two first rounds next year.

    Second, if St.L looks at the Lions and thinks we were more lucky than good and that we'll end up picking earlier than 23, then it's even more of a bonus to them. It's not too hard for me to find 8 or 9 losses in the Lions schedule is they get some unlucky bounces or have a couple of key injuries. If you knew for sure that the first rounder next year was a #15 pick... then this deal looks VERY favorable for the Rams.

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    I don't like Robinson at all in the 2nd. Plenty of more talented CB's in the mix, and if the Lions do not like Jenkins, or if he isnt available, then I like taking Trumaine Johnson. Hosley, Dennard, or Fleming are intriguing options too. I just think Robinson is a reach and am concerned with his man coverage as well as his inability to make plays in run support. We know well enough that we need help in those two facets big time and the other guys listed are much more capable.
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    Nastradamus is offline MotownSports Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.
    Well that's just silly to say IMO. You just have to make sure you are doing the trade for a player you have a 1st round grade on. There are players still available we could have taken at 23 and nobody would have blinked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    Yeah, it's a 1st and a second for a second and a second...



    They might for two reasons:

    First, just like the idea of trade back a 1 for a 2 is emotionally hard (even if logically right), so would trade a 2 for a 1 be emotionally easy (even if logically not). As much as I'd hate to not have a first round next year, in the same way it would be exciting to have two first rounds next year.

    Second, if St.L looks at the Lions and thinks we were more lucky than good and that we'll end up picking earlier than 23, then it's even more of a bonus to them. It's not too hard for me to find 8 or 9 losses in the Lions schedule is they get some unlucky bounces or have a couple of key injuries. If you knew for sure that the first rounder next year was a #15 pick... then this deal looks VERY favorable for the Rams.
    You would never get this. A similar bounty landed the Saints what, the 28 pick last year(Ingram)? We might get 33 and their 6th or something at the most. A 2013 1st does not land us 33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
    You would never get this. A similar bounty landed the Saints what, the 28 pick last year(Ingram)? We might get 33 and their 6th or something at the most.
    Just making sure, do you know what the hypothetical trade proposal was?

    We give our 1st in 2013 and our second this year (22nd in 2nd round)
    Rams give their two seconds this year (1st and 13th in 2nd round)

    I think it's actually relatively equal looking at pure numbers. The only question is where the Lions draft in the first round next year, and what talent is available right now vs. what might be available in next years draft.

    A 2013 1st does not land us 33
    Are you saying if the Lions offered up our first round pick in 2013, by itself, the Rams would not give us their pick in the second round (33rd over all) by itself? I'm a little confused by your reply, so just want to make sure I'm understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    Just making sure, do you know what the hypothetical trade proposal was?

    We give our 1st in 2013 and our second this year (22nd in 2nd round)
    Rams give their two seconds this year (1st and 13th in 2nd round)

    I think it's actually relatively equal looking at pure numbers. The only question is where the Lions draft in the first round next year, and what talent is available right now vs. what might be available in next years draft.



    Are you saying if the Lions offered up our first round pick in 2013, by itself, the Rams would not give us their pick in the second round (33rd over all) by itself? I'm a little confused by your reply, so just want to make sure I'm understanding.
    I'm aware of what the trade was. I think we could maybe get 33 and a 6th(first in the round) for those 2 picks based on value. Certainly not 33 and a 2nd by any means.

    Yes that's what I was saying. You usually get one round different if you trade a next year pick, so our pick next year's first would land us a mid to late 2nd most likely.

  20. #20
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    Pretty cool idea to think about & discuss though, eh?

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    Hope they don't panic and give away other picks to move up...then they'll be weaker at special teams and have to sign UFA's and then they get no compensation picks next year ! Trust the scouts and stay patient !

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    I expect a name that no one is talking about...like Titus Young last year.

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    The reason trading future high picks is a bad idea is because every team is going to have multiple holes to fill every year. That is just the nature of the salary cap era. So while you might think you are just filling a hole now instead of later, you are really hurting your teams chances of filling weak spots in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruzer1 View Post
    Trading a first and a second for a second isn't a smart thing to do, ever. Wait for your pick, or trade back. There is some depth to this draft.
    I agree with this. This is the point where this is the most depth in the draft. There isn't much of a difference between #35 and #55 this year, IMO. There's going to be a good player available at #54, so just sit back and wait. No need to trade an extra pick for someone.

    Edit: Just re-read and saw the "trading a first and a second for a second" and I completely agree again. There's no reason to de-value a draft pick just because it can't be used until next year.
    Last edited by froggyvk; 04-27-2012 at 06:35 PM.

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    I've heard that Jenkins is off the board for the Lions. I'm really hoping for Konz, Glenn or Curry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    I expect a name that no one is talking about...like Titus Young last year.
    Actually, there was a decent amount of talk of Titus in the 2nd last year.
    As God is my witness... I thought turkeys could fly.

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    Jenkins off the board. Rams take him at 39 overall

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    Quote Originally Posted by LineCrosser View Post
    Actually, there was a decent amount of talk of Titus in the 2nd last year.
    Not in the draft thread leading up to the second day of the draft. I just went back and checked. Most of the talk centered around Bowers, Ayers, Dowling, Brandon Harris, Leshoure, and a few other corners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hail2mich View Post
    Jenkins off the board. Rams take him at 39 overall
    Good. It makes more sense for the Rams than it does for a team like the Lions. They are desperate for top talent and have a lot of picks. I actually feel a little bad for the Jenkins. 4 kids by 3 women before age 24 and a bunch of arrests to boot. I don't know why that makes me feel bad for him but it does.

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    It might not have been discussed in the forum much, but I definitely remember a number of reports that the Lions were looking into Titus very seriously. I was not surprised at all that they grabbed him.

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    I just got home and am now settling in for the coverage..

    Can I also propose a NO-Tigers talk/spoilers for those planning to watch it later? Cheers.
    Retired. Thanks for the entertainment.

  32. #32
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    Glenn off the board. I know many people don't think the Lions should take another tackle but he is a guy I would have been happy with.

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    Has Mayock correctly picked just one selection yet?
    Retired. Thanks for the entertainment.

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    Nice job by Miami to get Martin this late.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    Good. It makes more sense for the Rams than it does for a team like the Lions. They are desperate for top talent and have a lot of picks. I actually feel a little bad for the Jenkins. 4 kids by 3 women before age 24 and a bunch of arrests to boot. I don't know why that makes me feel bad for him but it does.
    It makes sense with the picks they have...but they still are lacking WR's

    Jenkins has all the makings of Pacman Jones

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonjd View Post
    Can I also propose a NO-Tigers talk/spoilers for those planning to watch it later? Cheers.
    I think this is a good idea an---- WHOA!! Laird with an inside the park homerun?!?! Amazing!

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    Jets will take Givens? My guess. Let's see if I'm Mayockian.
    Retired. Thanks for the entertainment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRamage View Post
    I think this is a good idea an---- WHOA!! Laird with an inside the park homerun?!?! Amazing!
    Haha! Flipping over now. It's probably still in progress.

    Forgot about Stephen Hill. Solid.
    Last edited by jonjd; 04-27-2012 at 07:53 PM.
    Retired. Thanks for the entertainment.

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    So odd having wait this long into a round and still have a dozen picks until the Lions.

    I mean, it's good... but just odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonjd View Post
    Haha! Flipping over now. It's probably still in process.

    Forgot about Stephen Hill. Solid.
    Agreed. That stands out as maybe the best pick of the second round so far to me.

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