Dominic Raiola

**bob2009** · 12-25-2011, 12:59 PM

I am sure there are some who would disagree (perhaps fans of cage fighting, etc), but I personally cannot wait until we cut bait with this piece of unprofessional trash. He flips off his own fans several years ago, makes gestures and screams obscenities at fans in Miami, is a penalty machine, yet he still has a job. Then in his latest redneck display, he gets into it with an opposing player in the tunnel before yesterday's game. He's never been able to block to save his life (backed up by years and years worth of stats). I can't believe anybody in that locker room would do anything but laugh at him when he then tries to be a "leader" last week with a stupid locker room speech. I'm glad the lions won and will have the reward of losing a playoff game now (heck, even getting torched by NO or SF in a playoff game is much better than could have been expected this year), but seriously, we need to draft a new center and let this guy go.

**DrWho17** · 12-25-2011, 01:31 PM

He is a poor player I agree, and I pretty much knew before the announcers showed the footage Raiola would be involved. It wasn't even a real scuffle as much as Raiola attacking the guy.

**drownwithyou** · 12-25-2011, 01:33 PM

Maybe he thought the guy was a waitress...

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-25-2011, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by drownwithyou

Maybe he thought the guy was a waitress...

PERFECT

**New_Age_X** · 12-25-2011, 01:44 PM

I think he has a job on this team for one reason and one reason alone. We just haven't replaced him yet. We have had so many holes to fill in FA and the draft center was always just something we didn't focus on. Now that we are getting more talent and less holes center will be something we focus on more in the next year or two.

As for being a leader. A leader doesn't do what he did yesterday. No reason whats so ever for the way he acted. Especially when the spot light is on this team as being a dirty team this year.

I was very proud of the players though when the Chargers were trying to get us to fight them when they were getting blown out. So some of the players finally learned not to kick and punch when getting kicked and punched.

**Red Tiger Wings** · 12-25-2011, 02:05 PM

I have to disagree with you. Not only do you have no idea what's being said in the tunnel between the players, but all this guy wants to do is win. You didn't see him taking personal foul penalties or making mental errors regardless of his skill level. And it was nice to hear him say "Grow the f*** up" to the entire team when those ridiculous penalties were being made. Somebody had to say it and it's not going to be one of the young guys.

The reward of losing a playoff game? What the hell is wrong with you? Playing San Fran, NYG, or Dallas would all be very winnable. We should have beat a healthy Niners team. I know we would be on the road but they are starting to get banged up and they have 0 depth. Dallas is a joke in the playoffs. While I don't think we will win, they are certainly not guaranteed losses that's for sure. Have some faith FFS. I thought this was a Lions fan board.

**New_Age_X** · 12-25-2011, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Red Tiger Wings

I have to disagree with you. Not only do you have no idea what's being said in the tunnel between the players, but all this guy wants to do is win. You didn't see him taking personal foul penalties or making mental errors regardless of his skill level. And it was nice to hear him say "Grow the f*** up" to the entire team when those ridiculous penalties were being made. Somebody had to say it and it's not going to be one of the young guys.

The reward of losing a playoff game? What the hell is wrong with you? Playing San Fran, NYG, or Dallas would all be very winnable. We should have beat a healthy Niners team. I know we would be on the road but they are starting to get banged up and they have 0 depth. Dallas is a joke in the playoffs. While I don't think we will win, they are certainly not guaranteed losses that's for sure. Have some faith FFS. I thought this was a Lions fan board.

Even if the guy is saying something while coming out what real reason is there to attack the guy? IMO there really is none like I said. You get nothing out of it but looking like a thug. As for the GTFU comment that goes for him to then. Grown men don't go attack someone for just words.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-25-2011, 03:03 PM

Raiola is one of the worst starting centers in football. It will be nice once we get rid of him, Backus and Peterman...all completely useless players. Can't wait til we upgrade the OL.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-25-2011, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Red Tiger Wings

I have to disagree with you. Not only do you have no idea what's being said in the tunnel between the players, but all this guy wants to do is win. You didn't see him taking personal foul penalties or making mental errors regardless of his skill level. And it was nice to hear him say "Grow the f*** up" to the entire team when those ridiculous penalties were being made. Somebody had to say it and it's not going to be one of the young guys.

The reward of losing a playoff game? What the hell is wrong with you? Playing San Fran, NYG, or Dallas would all be very winnable. We should have beat a healthy Niners team. I know we would be on the road but they are starting to get banged up and they have 0 depth. Dallas is a joke in the playoffs. While I don't think we will win, they are certainly not guaranteed losses that's for sure. Have some faith FFS. I thought this was a Lions fan board.

Dominic Raiola telling teammates to "grow the f*** up" is like Orson Wells telling someone they are fat. Give me a break. He is average on his best day. I think Jeff Backus is actually a solid LT. The Lions need a G and C in the upcoming offseason.

My shopping List (draft and free agents)

1. Interior O-Line (center or guard)
2. Corner
3. The other interior O-Line spot
4. Safety
5. Running Back

I drop the need for running back a lot lower than most people here. I think the Lions are gonna do a running back-by-committee next year - and hopefully Smith/Leshoure/Morris all can stay healthy. I am not expecting Best to play anymore (I hope he does, but he needs to think about his health). I think if they address their interior line with a good free agent and their first round pick their running game will improve a lot. I don't believe in drafting running backs high anymore. They get injured too often, they tend not to last long and most teams are no longer relying on one guy to carry the load anymore - and when they do - an injury can devastate a team. You have 3 solid options, you have a little more leeway there. You put even a middle of the league running game together with Stafford and his weapons - you won't be able to stop the Lions. It's all about the line and Raiola is one of the problems - Peterman is the other.

**New_Age_X** · 12-25-2011, 04:09 PM

I sure hope Best can play again. I would like to see him used more as a wide rec if he comes back then a rb though. Sure still let him run the ball but he so much more dangerous as a receiver anyways. And with Smith/Morris/Leshoure it would cut down on his carries anyways so we don't need him running the ball as much.

**cruzer1** · 12-25-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by bob2009

I am sure there are some who would disagree (perhaps fans of cage fighting, etc), but I personally cannot wait until we cut bait with this piece of unprofessional trash. He flips off his own fans several years ago, makes gestures and screams obscenities at fans in Miami, is a penalty machine, yet he still has a job. Then in his latest redneck display, he gets into it with an opposing player in the tunnel before yesterday's game. He's never been able to block to save his life (backed up by years and years worth of stats). I can't believe anybody in that locker room would do anything but laugh at him when he then tries to be a "leader" last week with a stupid locker room speech. I'm glad the lions won and will have the reward of losing a playoff game now (heck, even getting torched by NO or SF in a playoff game is much better than could have been expected this year), but seriously, we need to draft a new center and let this guy go.

Show me the stats.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-25-2011, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Show me the stats.

We all know OL stats suck...but don't tell me you're defending Raiola.

**Mr. Bigglesworth** · 12-25-2011, 07:26 PM

I'm all for upgrading Raiola for football based reasons.

I don't give a crap that he yells at fans periodically or pushed a guy in the tunnel yesterday, and don't really understand why some seem to get up in arms about it.

**New_Age_X** · 12-25-2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Show me the stats.

Well I found this on him Detroit Lions: Focusing on the Stats for C Dominic Raiola | Bleacher Report. But since I don't have an account and refuse to pay PFF for one I can't look up the exact numbers for Dom. But according to the article he isn't very good.

**nd1377** · 12-25-2011, 09:57 PM

If the Lions can upgrade any position to make the team better, I am all for it. I have faith in Mayhew based on the decisions he has made to make the right decisions for the team.

**cruzer1** · 12-26-2011, 12:21 AM

I believe he's under contract, and there's no reason to expect that he won't be back again next year. He and Backus are playing at a pretty high level (I might be wrong, but I don't remember any missed snaps this year, and his penalties are down); I heard a stat that the Lions were averaging a rather high amount when running to Backus's side. If they can bring him back cheaply, then that would be great. The Lions do have a lot of money to spend on their own players this year, and their cap space will be tight. This year's draft is not deep (the high end value is excellent) in offensive linemen. This is not the year to be drafting offensive linemen, plus they'll get a couple of tackles that are already in the system back. Hopefully the Lions can retain Avril, Tulloch, and be able to extend Calvin next year. They are also two years away from Suh and Stafford's contracts expiring.

**kgeorge78** · 12-26-2011, 09:10 AM

backus and raiola are actually playing pretty decent this year, especially Backus.

Draft a guard to replace peterman, draft a corner, draft a DE and maybe a RB.

**cruzer1** · 12-26-2011, 09:49 AM

Why not draft the best available player?

**nd1377** · 12-26-2011, 10:05 AM

Maybe Jason Fox can come back from injury and help the Lions on the line.

**cruzer1** · 12-26-2011, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by nd1377

Maybe Jason Fox can come back from injury and help the Lions on the line.

They didn't look like they needed help against the Chargers.

**Yoda** · 12-26-2011, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Why not draft the best available player?

What if best available is a QB or WR?

**cruzer1** · 12-26-2011, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Yoda

What if best available is a QB or WR?

The Lions need as many WR's with speed as they can get. They can subtract QB for the top rounds, but look at the Packers, they keep on drafting WR's almost every year. The Lions need to keep up. The Packers run 5 deep at WR, the Lions only three, and Burleson is slowing down and getting up in age. There are some positions that you can't have enough talent...WR, CB, etc. RB should not be a consideration next year. They are three deep; provided they bring back Smith, and the other two are ok, which they should be.

**djhutch** · 12-26-2011, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

The Lions need as many WR's with speed as they can get. They can subtract QB for the top rounds, but look at the Packers, they keep on drafting WR's almost every year. The Lions need to keep up. The Packers run 5 deep at WR, the Lions only three, and Burleson is slowing down and getting up in age. There are some positions that you can't have enough talent...WR, CB, etc. RB should not be a consideration next year. They are three deep; provided they bring back Smith, and the other two are ok, which they should be.

I know LeShoure will be there, & I like what they got out of Best when healthy but I'm not convinced that his concussions won't continue. Smith has given us enough in a pinch, but there's a reason he was cut. I don't know if it needs to be in the first round, but I'd like to see them grab another RB in the first 3 rounds.

**Gehringer_2** · 12-26-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

The Lions need as many WR's with speed as they can get. .

Matt, it that you?

**cruzer1** · 12-26-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Matt, it that you?

Nobody is laughing at the Packers or the Saints.

**Porcelain God** · 12-26-2011, 07:33 PM

For a guy so hated by Lion's fans he is usually fairly well respected within the NFL ranks.

**Motor City Sonics** · 12-26-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Why not draft the best available player?

Because they are really close now. They have fewer weaknesses, time to fill those specific weaknesses. The biggest is interior line, but they also need help in the secondary. When they sucked and anything could help, they could take best available. Wouldn't make sense to draft QB, WR, DT, TE......

**Gehringer_2** · 12-26-2011, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Porcelain God

For a guy so hated by Lion's fans he is usually fairly well respected within the NFL ranks.

Why wouldn't opponents love a guy they can beat?

**Nastradamus** · 12-27-2011, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by kgeorge78

backus and raiola are actually playing pretty decent this year, especially Backus.

Draft a guard to replace peterman, draft a corner, draft a DE and maybe a RB.

Backus has played pretty well, since that game where Jared Allen whooped him up and down the field. I thought he might have an awful year after the biceps injury and everything, but he recovered nicely. Our run blocking has been nice too and its been especially noticeable since Best left. He never helped the cause there, though he was an exciting playmaker that we miss. Journeymen Smith and Morris have been able to get 4 ypc for the most part behind them.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by bob2009

I am sure there are some who would disagree (perhaps fans of cage fighting, etc), but I personally cannot wait until we cut bait with this piece of unprofessional trash. He flips off his own fans several years ago, makes gestures and screams obscenities at fans in Miami, is a penalty machine, yet he still has a job. Then in his latest redneck display, he gets into it with an opposing player in the tunnel before yesterday's game. He's never been able to block to save his life (backed up by years and years worth of stats). I can't believe anybody in that locker room would do anything but laugh at him when he then tries to be a "leader" last week with a stupid locker room speech. I'm glad the lions won and will have the reward of losing a playoff game now (heck, even getting torched by NO or SF in a playoff game is much better than could have been expected this year), but seriously, we need to draft a new center and let this guy go.

Show your work please.

He is not the worst....he is not the best....there is a pretty BIG area inbetween best and worst.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by djhutch

I know LeShoure will be there, & I like what they got out of Best when healthy but I'm not convinced that his concussions won't continue. Smith has given us enough in a pinch, but there's a reason he was cut. I don't know if it needs to be in the first round, but I'd like to see them grab another RB in the first 3 rounds.

Originally Posted by Nastradamus

Backus has played pretty well, since that game where Jared Allen whooped him up and down the field. I thought he might have an awful year after the biceps injury and everything, but he recovered nicely. Our run blocking has been nice too and its been especially noticeable since Best left. He never helped the cause there, though he was an exciting playmaker that we miss. Journeymen Smith and Morris have been able to get 4 ypc for the most part behind them.

What are you guys talking about? Smith isn't a journeyman and he has only played for the Lions. And the reason he was cut is he hasn't ever been healthy.

Smith, when healthy this year, has looked exactly like the back out of Central Florida in 2008.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

Show your work please.

He is not the worst....he is not the best....there is a pretty BIG area inbetween best and worst.

No need to show any work in this scenario. Raiola is god awful. He is definitely much closer to the worst category than the in between category.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Nobody is laughing at the Packers or the Saints.

Packers WR draft history:

2nd round last year
None in 2010
None in 2009
1st round and 7th round in 2008
3rd and 5th in 2007
2nd and 4th in 2006

Saints WR draft history:

None in 2011
None in 2010
None in 2009
7th round 2008
1st round 2007
6th and 7th round in 2006

Best available is a bad play for a team that makes the playoffs...we need defensive help and help on the o line along with a few other positions on the offense....WR is not one of them IMO....not next year anyway...CJ, NB and TY along with Pettigrew and Scheffler and the RB option (no matter who it is) is PLENTY for Stafford to throw to IMO.

**Vonlenska** · 12-27-2011, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

No need to show any work in this scenario. Raiola is god awful. He is definitely much closer to the worst category than the in between category.

Not that I particularly disagree, but we're starting down a slippery slope when we propose that there's no need to show work. There always is.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

No need to show any work in this scenario. Raiola is god awful. He is definitely much closer to the worst category than the in between category.

When someone says "(backed up by years and years worth of stats)." I do not think it is burdensome to ask that person to show what the heck they are talking about.

Alright then...rank the centers...not trying to be a jerk, but without looking I bet you cannot name 2 other centers..noone pays attention to them unless they are on their team....you tend to be more critical of someone when you focus soley on them. Throwing out statements like the above is lazy at best and dishonest at worst.

I watch the games....just about every game he has played in (and plenty before he got here) I do not see him as being any worse or better than any other center in the league....I watch EVERY Lions game and see other teams when they play us mostly, but I watch a good bit of the other Sunday games and watch just about every Monday night game.

I honestly think most people have such a hate for them because they represent that 0'fer team and basically are the poster boys for the sellar dwelling Lions the past 10 years.

Could we upgrade those positions? Most likely, but IMO it is nowhere near the top priority.

**Gehringer_2** · 12-27-2011, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

When someone says "(backed up by years and years worth of stats)." I do not think it is burdensome to ask that person to show what the heck they are talking about.

Alright then...rank the centers...not trying to be a jerk, but without looking I bet you cannot name 2 other centers..noone pays attention to them unless they are on their team....you tend to be more critical of someone when you focus soley on them. Throwing out statements like the above is lazy at best and dishonest at worst.

I watch the games....just about every game he has played in (and plenty before he got here) I do not see him as being any worse or better than any other center in the league....I watch EVERY Lions game and see other teams when they play us mostly, but I watch a good bit of the other Sunday games and watch just about every Monday night game.

I honestly think most people have such a hate for them because they represent that 0'fer team and basically are the poster boys for the sellar dwelling Lions the past 10 years.

Could we upgrade those positions? Most likely, but IMO it is nowhere near the top priority.

Part it of is also that at this point the Lions just don't try to do much of what they already know this 'O' line is not capable off - so you don't exactly see an apples to apples comparison with say - the Saints.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Gehringer_2

Part it of is also that at this point the Lions just don't try to do much of what they already know this 'O' line is not capable off - so you don't exactly see an apples to apples comparison with say - the Saints.

Which is exactly the point....take Raiola and switch him with the saints center...see what happens...I highly doubt the saints suffer and we somehow turn into a juggernaut in the run game.

The o-line is a 'unit' if there ever was one in sports the o-line and the d-line in football would be among the most important...you can add, the line backer unit or QB/WR unit or even a 2b and SS in baseball or catcher/pitcher....less so in those last examples, but moreso in the first few...

You can say that the unit is only as good as its weakest link and you would be correct in saying it....I am not sure if Raiola is the weakest link though. I also think alot of people hear so much talk about a player and it starts a snoball effect to the point where crap is talked about and someone mistakes it for fact....I hear it all the time on the radio...people calling in with bs stats and a persona couple days later calls in and reitterates it ...sometimes the misrepresented fact is caught other times it is glossed over because the caller may have said something even worse that the DJ focuses on.

The best you can do in football is compare that player with a player in the same position...football does not have great stats for o line type players so people look at the rushing stats or the sack stats, but that is attributed to the line as a whole not one single person....

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

The best you can do in football is compare that player with a player in the same position...football does not have great stats for o line type players so people look at the rushing stats or the sack stats, but that is attributed to the line as a whole not one single person....

Lukcky for us Raiola, Peterman and Backus have been together for years, and the OL has sucked the entire time. So I think it isn't too far of a reach to demand all 3 go.

**drownwithyou** · 12-27-2011, 01:23 PM

I don't have a Pro Football Focus subscription, but I did see somewhere (probably twitter) that they have Peterman as the only o-lineman that is about league average overall (pass + run blocking) this year.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

Lukcky for us Raiola, Peterman and Backus have been together for years, and the OL has sucked the entire time. So I think it isn't too far of a reach to demand all 3 go.

Sacks allowed:
2011-15th (18th fewest)
2010-27th (5th fewest)
2009-23rd (23rd fewest--Greenbay allowed the most sacks that year)
2008-....the NFL stats page crapped out and will not let me go past 2008 for some reaosn, but I do know they were first in sacks allowed that year with 51...

Again....not the best or the worst.