Dominic Raiola

**DrWho17** · 12-27-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

Sacks allowed:
2011-15th (18th fewest)
2010-27th (5th fewest)
2009-23rd (23rd fewest--Greenbay allowed the most sacks that year)
2008-....the NFL stats page crapped out and will not let me go past 2008 for some reaosn, but I do know they were first in sacks allowed that year with 51...

Again....not the best or the worst.

I don't think Sacks allowed or even pass protection are all that good of an indicator. I think even mediocre lineman can pass block, run blocking is where the difference is found. The Lions offensive line gets pushed back routinely, they are on the smallish and weak side, have been for many years as to be expected with the low talent level. It is time to revamp the line, it is probably the worst unit on the team at this time, the Lions need to get bigger and more athletic up front. I think they will start addressing that next, now that the linebacking corps and defensive backfield have been improved. Get rid of Raiola he's a big problem with the run game, keep Backus move him inside to guard where I think he could be quite good in his remaining years, get a big time left tackle.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

Sacks allowed:
2011-15th (18th fewest)
2010-27th (5th fewest)
2009-23rd (23rd fewest--Greenbay allowed the most sacks that year)
2008-....the NFL stats page crapped out and will not let me go past 2008 for some reaosn, but I do know they were first in sacks allowed that year with 51...

Again....not the best or the worst.

What are you trying to do here John? Because to me you're making a case to support keeping the OL I have mentioned.

I don't understand how anyone who watches the Lions can defend the Lions OL. Its by far our biggest weakness and needs to be fixed before we can really start talking about going all the way.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

I don't think Sacks allowed or even pass protection are all that good of an indicator. I think even mediocre lineman can pass block, run blocking is where the difference is found. The Lions offensive line gets pushed back routinely, they are on the smallish and weak side, have been for many years as to be expected with the low talent level. It is time to revamp the line, it is probably the worst unit on the team at this time, the Lions need to get bigger and more athletic up front. I think they will start addressing that next, now that the linebacking corps and defensive backfield have been improved. Get rid of Raiola he's a big problem with the run game, keep Backus move him inside to guard where I think he could be quite good in his remaining years, get a big time left tackle.

Convienent argument when the Lions have had below average running backs the last 10 years and no running backs this year.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

Convienent argument when the Lions have had below average running backs the last 10 years and no running backs this year.

The OL can make all the difference...see the Broncos before the whole Tebow thing.

The issue is the OL, not the RB.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by T&P_Fan

What are you trying to do here John? Because to me you're making a case to support keeping the OL I have mentioned.

I don't understand how anyone who watches the Lions can defend the Lions OL. Its by far our biggest weakness and needs to be fixed before we can really start talking about going all the way.

I have said as much multiple times...one of my first priorities is shoring up the o line along with the defense...defense would be first IMO. Best was the answer...not sure what he will do going forward, but dumping all of our running woes on the o-line is folly.

For as much as we used him he was a REAL weapon. The o-line is FAR from dominant, but IMO we have plenty of dominant phases to make up for a mediocre o-line. Laying it at the feet of 1-2 guys is where I have a problem.

Linebackers
Safeties
O-Line ...any position to add depth

Depending on what happens with Best you have to throw RB in there as well.

**DrWho17** · 12-27-2011, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

Convienent argument when the Lions have had below average running backs the last 10 years and no running backs this year.

Running backs in the NFL are the easiest players to obtain, I'm not sure their running backs have been "below average", how about average, the consistent thing throughout the 10 years with Raiola is that the Lions can't run up the middle to save their life. It isn't really an argument anyway, it certainly is easier to pass block then it is to drive block.

**DrWho17** · 12-27-2011, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by John_Brian_K

I have said as much multiple times...one of my first priorities is shoring up the o line along with the defense...defense would be first IMO. Best was the answer...not sure what he will do going forward, but dumping all of our running woes on the o-line is folly.

For as much as we used him he was a REAL weapon. The o-line is FAR from dominant, but IMO we have plenty of dominant phases to make up for a mediocre o-line. Laying it at the feet of 1-2 guys is where I have a problem.

Linebackers
Safeties
O-Line ...any position to add depth

Depending on what happens with Best you have to throw RB in there as well.

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but the Linebacking core has been shorn up already with Durant/Tulloch/Levy and Carpenter for depth that's a good group. The Safeties are fine as well, Delmas is a top 5 safety and Spievey has above average cover skills for a safety and is an above average tackler, I think they are in good shape with that group for a while too.

Offensive line is the group that needs to be addressed, Cherilus and Sims I think are keepers the rest need to be upgraded. I'd like to see them spend a few picks next year and maybe pick up a free agent to start, I think they will, Mayhew has been building the team by units very well.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Running backs in the NFL are the easiest players to obtain, I'm not sure their running backs have been "below average", how about average, the consistent thing throughout the 10 years with Raiola is that the Lions can't run up the middle to save their life. It isn't really an argument anyway, it certainly is easier to pass block then it is to drive block.

Yeah ......easy....everyone has an MJD/AP/Ray Rice on their team....What does 'easiest to obtain' even mean in this discussion? I liked James Stewart I always defended him, but he was below average and he was probably our best RB since Barry and before Best.

Aveion Cason?
Kevin Jones?
Corey Schlesenger?
Rudy Bags?

Our RB's have been WAY below average the last 10 years.

**DrWho17** · 12-27-2011, 03:26 PM

Rankings by the numbers found through google search.

]2011 Offensive Line Rankings - Matchups - Rotoworld.com
FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE LINES

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 03:36 PM

Great stuff doctor who.

**John_Brian_K** · 12-27-2011, 03:39 PM

The first one is one mans opinion...hardly ground breaking material.

I like that second link and the analysis there, but:

"However, it is important to understand that these ratings only somewhat separate the offensive line from the running backs. A team with a very good running back will appear higher no matter how bad their line, and a team with a great line with appear lower if the running back is terrible."

Dude needs some spell checking/grammar checking as well...and yes it does matter...it goes to credibility, but none the less I do like that analysis...I am just not sure how accurate it is.

**T&P_Fan** · 12-27-2011, 03:54 PM

When discussing Detroit Lions OL from 2000-present, all stats are ancillary, liked a flavored creamer for your coffee...don't really need them, everyone knows whats happening here.

No matter what way you slice this pie, it equates to a bad OL.

**moonwatcher** · 12-27-2011, 06:16 PM

Raiola is the worst professional athlete I've ever seen play a sport. Not only that, but he is extremely disrespectful. He must be the world's greatest practice player because there is no way he should be paid to play football. Embarrassment to his position, the Lions and the game in general. How he is a captain is an absurdity that can't be explained through logic. I absolutely hate that guy and I hope his time with the Lions will end soon. I can't recall a single time he did anything efficiently. He's always just standing there watching Stafford get sacked, and he never gets downfield to block. Ever. It's been argued that he's really good at calling the blocking schemes at the line. Whatever. That seems like the last argument someone would make to prop up a terrible player. I don't give a s&(**^ what anyone says. I will never be swayed in my belief that he's a garbage football player.

TJ · 12-27-2011, 06:49 PM

The one single horrible play Saturday for the Lions on offense was when (IIRC) Cam Thomas the DT (6-4, 335) used his 50-lb weight advantage to blow past Raiola like a rag doll as usual and sat on Stafford's head for a 12-yard sack.

Raiola's inadequacy as a blocker is the main reason for the weakness of the Lions' short-yardage running game -- inside running plays continually get blown up from the instant of the snap as Raiola is repeatedly crushed by opposing DL (the sub-replacement-level Peterman and Backus do not help either).

Raiola hurts the team in other ways than his substandard play, although that's plenty bad enough. The fact that he is a "veteran leader" in the locker room is a real real bad thing because it delivers the subliminal message to younger players that it's OK to suck as a player as long as you mouth off a lot to the media and in the locker room. This is why it was a stupid stupid idea to ever make Jon Kitna a "team leader" -- even when he played well (for him) he was still a mediocre QB at best. (See also Brandon Inge.)

It is much better when your "team leaders" are also actually good players.

When your "team leaders" are bad players, it is incumbent on you to get rid of them and replace them with good players to be your leaders. If the Lions had had good and strong coaches throughout the mid-2000s, when Jon Kitna and Dominic Raiola attempted to insert themselves as "team leaders," the coaches would have said "STFU and speak when you're spoken to, sonny boy, if you don't start playing about 500 percent better, the only team you'll be leading is the all-star team of the waiver wire."

The leaders of this team should be Stafford, CJ, probably Tulloch and Delmas. Suh could develop into a team leader but he has to develop better judgement.

**Gehringer_2** · 01-01-2012, 08:54 PM

So today Dom not only had his own illegal procedure called on a pretty blatant head bob, but I was also amused when Billick blamed a bad call at the line by Raiola for creating another IP called on Pettigrew

**Cylander** · 01-01-2012, 08:56 PM

I would have no problem drafting Peter Konz out of Wisconsin if he declares. Centers don't go in the first round very often, but he seems worth picking. If I remember correctly, Wisconsin has a history of churning out good linemen.

**Scottish caveman** · 01-01-2012, 09:11 PM

I'd rather they drafted David DeCastro, Stanford, Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State , Senio Kelemete, Washington or Brandon Brooks, Miami (Oh.).....get some powerhouse OG's and the center can be quick and flexible with two talented guards next to him.

TJ · 01-02-2012, 07:18 AM

After the game of course we were treated to more locker room wisdom from the savvy seasoned leader Raiola, explaining what the Lions have to do to win in the playoffs. (Like he has any idea).

Draft 2 DBs, draft 2 OLs, and sign at least one impact OL.

**Gehringer_2** · 01-02-2012, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Scottish caveman

I'd rather they drafted David DeCastro, Stanford, Amini Silatolu, Midwestern State , Senio Kelemete, Washington or Brandon Brooks, Miami (Oh.).....get some powerhouse OG's and the center can be quick and flexible with two talented guards next to him.

Maybe if we had a quick and flexible center he could have avoided the clip called when Dom couldn't get in front of his man yesterday. Oh..Wait...isn't Dom supposed to be quick and flexible? ....Nevermind......