2010 NFL Draft - Page 3

sinister porpoise · #81 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 01:56 PM

I have some points about the rankings above

why is DeMarco Murray relatively low? What does he lack?
cruzer... Obi Ezeh is not good.

Mschottey1985 · #82 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Personally, I've ranked him low because

1) The backs above him are truly good backs. I think CJ Spiller will end up being the guy most of us thought McFadden would be. Best and Scott are niche backs but very good at what they do. Murray is probably a better all-around back than the two above him, but splitting carries with Chris Brown means he never was "the guy."

2) Injuries

I've seen him everywhere from a boarderline 1st rounder (in a HB heavy round) to a 4th rounder.

He is exciting to watch but I see him topping out as a poor man's Lawrence Maroney.

Jason_R · #83 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

...I foresee about a billion Suh/McCoy and Mays/Berry arguments over the next six months.

What this means to me is that the Lions have a really good shot at picking up an impact player on the defensive side of the ball, wherever (in the top eight picks) we land. I feel good knowing that.

cruzer1 · #84 (**permalink**) 10-22-2009, 08:30 PM

Actually, I think Cody is more the Lions type of DT. Speed kills in the NFL, the Lions should know that's how they've been beat. Why are Mike Wallace and Johnny Knox so successful?

Mschottey1985 · #85 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Actually, I think Cody is more the Lions type of DT. Speed kills in the NFL, the Lions should know that's how they've been beat. Why are Mike Wallace and Johnny Knox so successful?

Speed, yes...but also having multiple threats around them not to mention top flight QBs. Speed is important, but other attributes are key as well.

Jerry Rice didn't get to where he was because of speed, Walter Peyton either or Dan Marino. Sometimes athletes have more than just speed.

Also, for the record, Suh is just as fast, if not faster than McCoy. We'll have to wait for official times but NFLDraftScout has both in the 4.9-5.0 range

I agree Suh plays with too high of a pad level but so did 90% of the Lions before this year. One of the things Schwartz has accomplished in his time so far is getting the defensive players lower.

If Suh is that dominant with his pads a little high, he has more room for growth.

Both can add weight to their frame which is a plus. Neither is a fat*** like Cody (who we should avoid like the plague). Both are dominant.

Scottish caveman · #86 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 10:25 AM

What I like about Suh is his work ethic, he is just relentless !! The Lions need more of that attitude !

Hart · #87 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 11:17 AM

The more I think about it, the Lions likely are not going to have a shot at either McCoy or Suh. Defensive tackles are always highly regarded in the draft and the Lions are not likely to pick in the top five. Just looking at the draft board right now, I have to believe Suh and McCoy are going to be the top two non quarterbacks rated in the draft. It is somewhat unfortunate because both player provide skills at a position of desperate need right now for the Lions.

DrWho17 · #88 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

If there is an Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson available at our pick, the Lions should take him.

Does Taylor Mays qualify?

Mschottey1985 · #89 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart

The more I think about it, the Lions likely are not going to have a shot at either McCoy or Suh. Defensive tackles are always highly regarded in the draft and the Lions are not likely to pick in the top five. Just looking at the draft board right now, I have to believe Suh and McCoy are going to be the top two non quarterbacks rated in the draft. It is somewhat unfortunate because both player provide skills at a position of desperate need right now for the Lions.

I agree with many of your sentiments Hart. But, looking at the moves of the organization, I wonder if they are truly interested in a first round defensive tackle. Grabbing Sammie Lee Hill and almost immediately trusting him to start, even though he's very raw spoke volumes. The constant movement of DTs on and off the practice squad says even more.

I think Schwartz and Mayhew might be trying to find a gem at DT other places than the first round. There are a lot of 315 pounders in the later rounds.

That being said, I don't believe the Lions would pass up Suh or McCoy if available. Just something to think about.

Johnny Mac · #90 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 01:43 PM

BTW, after ripping him in this thread. Patrick Robinson had a solid game last night, should have had a pick 6 except for a horrible blown call

Porcelain God · #91 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart

The more I think about it, the Lions likely are not going to have a shot at either McCoy or Suh. Defensive tackles are always highly regarded in the draft and the Lions are not likely to pick in the top five. Just looking at the draft board right now, I have to believe Suh and McCoy are going to be the top two non quarterbacks rated in the draft. It is somewhat unfortunate because both player provide skills at a position of desperate need right now for the Lions.

They may very well end up picking top five and with Mays and Berry included, one of those DT's may drop. I'd much prefer DT than LT or S at this point. CB would be best but there doesn't appear to be much top ten value at that position.

Mschottey1985 · #92 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 05:14 PM

Top Seniors at Each Offensive Position--courtesy of yours truly.

cruzer1 · #93 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

Speed, yes...but also having multiple threats around them not to mention top flight QBs. Speed is important, but other attributes are key as well.

Jerry Rice didn't get to where he was because of speed, Walter Peyton either or Dan Marino. Sometimes athletes have more than just speed.

Also, for the record, Suh is just as fast, if not faster than McCoy. We'll have to wait for official times but NFLDraftScout has both in the 4.9-5.0 range

I agree Suh plays with too high of a pad level but so did 90% of the Lions before this year. One of the things Schwartz has accomplished in his time so far is getting the defensive players lower.

If Suh is that dominant with his pads a little high, he has more room for growth.

Both can add weight to their frame which is a plus. Neither is a fat*** like Cody (who we should avoid like the plague). Both are dominant.

Cody plays with better leverage than Suh. I project Suh to play LE in the NFL. As for Rice, he was as fast or faster than the players of his generation. He's also the exception, not the rule. He was also a first round pick. There are speed guys that get drafted in the mid rounds that have a great impact, especially for the Bears, Vikings and Packers. It's about time the Lions catch up with their division.

Mschottey1985 · #94 (**permalink**) 10-23-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruzer1

As for Rice, he was as fast or faster than the players of his generation. He's also the exception, not the rule. He was also a first round pick. There are speed guys that get drafted in the mid rounds that have a great impact, especially for the Bears, Vikings and Packers. It's about time the Lions catch up with their division.

Hines Ward, Anquan Boldin, Derrick Mason, etc...All guys who lack speed but have great receiving ability.

I definitely want the Lions to improve their speed but they also need to improve strength and size.

TJ · #95 (**permalink**) 10-24-2009, 04:22 PM

Since the Lions intentionally neglected both lines in this year's draft, they need to go heavy, heavy, heavy in linemen in the upcoming free agency/draft periods.

cruzer1 · #96 (**permalink**) 10-24-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ

Since the Lions intentionally neglected both lines in this year's draft, they need to go heavy, heavy, heavy in linemen in the upcoming free agency/draft periods.

To say they neglected both lines is raising the drama bar. Brandon Pettigrew is a good in-line blocker, and Sammie Hill was starting when healthy. They spent three picks on defensive linemen in 2008, and their first rounder on the offensive line. The more they address both lines, the more they neglect their #1 team need... team speed.

barnettej · #97 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 08:01 AM

Any thoughts on Cody, I mean yesterday the guy was an absolute beast. Blocking 2 consecutive FG's to win the game over Tenn....

DrWho17 · #98 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 10:00 AM

Well, I think the Lions could be in good shape, drafting anywhere from 1-6. Many of the bottom teams have needs at positions the Lions won't fill that high (QB/WR/RB). Lions will get their pick of a super DT/OT. I wish they had more picks in this draft though, lots of holes could be filled. Hopefully they can swing a 1 for 2 deal in the first round, Mays seems to have slipped, I'd target him and a dline. Can they get anything for Sims is the question?

Checked some Mocks, I was thinking about Brandon Graham looks like his stock is too high, was hoping he would make it to the 2nd round.

Hart · #99 (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnettej

Any thoughts on Cody, I mean yesterday the guy was an absolute beast. Blocking 2 consecutive FG's to win the game over Tenn....

Cody't stock is definitely rising after yesterday's performance. I am guessing he will see him pushed into the top 10 of analysts rankings pretty quick. He will most likely be the third DT taken behind Suh and McCoy. I would liken him to Shaun Rogers as far as talent. If the top tier of defensive players are off the board, I think Cody could be a good pick for the Lions.

cruzer1 · #**100** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart

Cody't stock is definitely rising after yesterday's performance. I am guessing he will see him pushed into the top 10 of analysts rankings pretty quick. He will most likely be the third DT taken behind Suh and McCoy. I would liken him to Shaun Rogers as far as talent. If the top tier of defensive players are off the board, I think Cody could be a good pick for the Lions.

I do like him alot, but he's also strictly a two down player. I do believe he fits the Lions profile of having two giants inside, and two fast guys outside better than the other two.

cruzer1 · #**101** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 01:25 PM

Mike Wallace just scored again. Speed is good.

keystone · #**102** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 05:59 PM

Bradford is going to have surgery and enter the draft in April.

I wonder if his insurance policy will make up for how far he'll drop in the draft due to injury.

My Way - Sports News

Stormin' Norman · #**103** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Well, I think the Lions could be in good shape, drafting anywhere from 1-6. Many of the bottom teams have needs at positions the Lions won't fill that high (QB/WR/RB). Lions will get their pick of a super DT/OT. I wish they had more picks in this draft though, lots of holes could be filled. Hopefully they can swing a 1 for 2 deal in the first round, Mays seems to have slipped, I'd target him and a dline. Can they get anything for Sims is the question?

Checked some Mocks, I was thinking about Brandon Graham looks like his stock is too high, was hoping he would make it to the 2nd round.

1. Mock Drafts at this point are completely irrelevant. You can't gage the "stock" of a player from an October mock draft any better than seeing how good a player is when you draft them on Madden.

I also don't understand why people are assuming the Lions will have a top 6 pick, are these people not watching the NFL? I mean you can admit the Lions are a bad team and still understand that they are a better team than the Chiefs, Bucs, Raiders, Panthers, Rams, Browns and Redskins.

cruzer1 · #**104** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 08:39 PM

Many juniors will come out this year, fearing what will happen with the CBA; which will probably make this a top draft class overall. It's going to be tough to predict who won't come out.

Hart · #**105** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

1. Mock Drafts at this point are completely irrelevant. You can't gage the "stock" of a player from an October mock draft any better than seeing how good a player is when you draft them on Madden.

I also don't understand why people are assuming the Lions will have a top 6 pick, are these people not watching the NFL? I mean you can admit the Lions are a bad team and still understand that they are a better team than the Chiefs, Bucs, Raiders, Panthers, Rams, Browns and Redskins.

I partially agree with what you are saying. Mock drafts are not completely meaningless. They basically tell you say the same things rankings tell you. There are a handful of players who are pretty much guaranteed top 10 picks already and mock drafts will tell you who those players are.

I agree that the Lions are better than all those teams you mentioned. But that doesn't mean we will end up with a better record. We are still bad enough to easily lose all the remaining games on our schedule. Chances are, this is not going to happen, but it would not surprise me if it did either.

Hart · #**106** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keystone

Bradford is going to have surgery and enter the draft in April.

I wonder if his insurance policy will make up for how far he'll drop in the draft due to injury.

My Way - Sports News

I am not convinced he is going to fall out of the top 5 yet. A lot will depend on workouts and how different team's doctors evaluate him. There a lot of teams desperate for a franchise quarterback that are going to have a very high draft pick and one of them might deem him worth the risk.

cruzer1 · #**107** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart

I am not convinced he is going to fall out of the top 5 yet. A lot will depend on workouts and how different team's doctors evaluate him. There a lot of teams desperate for a franchise quarterback that are going to have a very high draft pick and one of them might deem him worth the risk.

He's not the only top QB.

Mschottey1985 · #**108** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruzer1

He's not the only top QB.

At this point (he's only played one full game) Cruz it right, he's not even close to being a lock. All of the questions--spread offense, overall athleticism, arm strength, etc are amplified thanks to this injury.

JonBenke · #**109** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 11:17 PM

Cruzer gets docked for having UM LB - Ezi on any list. Tackles are all and nice, but when he chases you for 10+ yards before making that tackle .... not so much.

Mschottey1985 gets docked for having Tim Tebow ranked as a QB.

Johnny Mac · #**110** (**permalink**) 10-25-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBenke

Cruzer gets docked for having UM LB - Ezi on any list. Tackles are all and nice, but when he chases you for 10+ yards before making that tackle .... not so much.

Mschottey1985 gets docked for having Tim Tebow ranked as a QB.

lol, let alone the top qb. He has the 3rd best qb rating this season, in the state of Florida. Outside of the Troy game, he has 4 TD 4 INT in his other 6 games. He also has only hit 150 passing yards once in his past 5 games.

Only way he is a NFL QB in my mind is if you consider the guy who takes snaps in the wildcat a QB.

Stormin' Norman · #**111** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart

I partially agree with what you are saying. Mock drafts are not completely meaningless. They basically tell you say the same things rankings tell you. There are a handful of players who are pretty much guaranteed top 10 picks already and mock drafts will tell you who those players are.

Look at any mock draft done this early in the season and see how it compares with the actual draft. There is so much change, even at the top, after the season that the rankings at this point in October are irrelevant come draft season.

Quote:

I agree that the Lions are better than all those teams you mentioned. But that doesn't mean we will end up with a better record. We are still bad enough to easily lose all the remaining games on our schedule. Chances are, this is not going to happen, but it would not surprise me if it did either.

We are bad enough to lose to St. Louis and Cleveland? I really don't think so - especially if Stafford is playing.

Hongbit · #**112** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:15 AM

I liked Jon Crompton listed at #5 QB.

cruzer1 · #**113** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBenke

Cruzer gets docked for having UM LB - Ezi on any list. Tackles are all and nice, but when he chases you for 10+ yards before making that tackle .... not so much.

Mschottey1985 gets docked for having Tim Tebow ranked as a QB.

I think Tebow is a lock to go in the first round. If he doesn't go by the Jaguar's pick, he'll go to the Jaguars. They need to sell tickets, and the owner wants him. Good enough for me, it's why I called DHB to the Raiders so early last year. Sometimes the man with the money is the man calling the shots, whether it makes football sense, or not.

Johnny Mac · #**114** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruzer1

I think Tebow is a lock to go in the first round. If he doesn't go by the Jaguar's pick, he'll go to the Jaguars. They need to sell tickets, and the owner wants him. Good enough for me, it's why I called DHB to the Raiders so early last year. Sometimes the man with the money is the man calling the shots, whether it makes football sense, or not.

which brings up another good point in the rankings, should you rank them based on their talent or on where you think they get drafted. As you said with DHB, I called the Dolphins taking Pat White in the 2nd round. Some of those picks you just see a fit even though you dont think they should go there. Anyway the Jags are going to be picking in the 10-15 range most likely, at least 1 probably 2 qbs will be gone by then and I dont think Tebow is one of them. So still I think he might go 1st round to the Jags to try to save them from a move to LA, however I dont think there is anyway he is the top ranked qb in this class as McShottey put.

Hart · #**115** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 11:25 AM

[QUOTE=Stormin' Norman;2043686]Look at any mock draft done this early in the season and see how it compares with the actual draft. There is so much change, even at the top, after the season that the rankings at this point in October are irrelevant come draft season.

I am not talking about which team actual picks a certain player. I am just saying which players are ranked the highest. There is more change in rankings as you get lower but guys like Stafford, Curry, Smith, and Crabtree were always highly thought of.

Hart · #**116** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

At this point (he's only played one full game) Cruz it right, he's not even close to being a lock. All of the questions--spread offense, overall athleticism, arm strength, etc are amplified thanks to this injury.

I never said he was a lock. But you guys are writing him off as a top 10 or even top 5 pick already. There is no way I am willing to go that far.

Mschottey1985 · #**117** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

So still I think he might go 1st round to the Jags to try to save them from a move to LA, however I dont think there is anyway he is the top ranked qb in this class as McShottey put.

Top ranked senior QB in this class as MSchottey put it

I rank the athlete first not the system or the competition. If you compare Tebow to former college QBs with his talents and abilities he compares favorably to Donovan McNabb. He has a great arm and decent mechanics. He throws a great deep ball (he just doesn't have to in the system very often). When throwing workouts happen, he'll be a lock first rounder. I do have four or five juniors ranked ahead of him.

Mike Schottey=Mschottey...not scottish

Johnny Mac · #**118** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

Top ranked senior QB in this class as MSchottey put it

I rank the athlete first not the system or the competition. If you compare Tebow to former college QBs with his talents and abilities he compares favorably to Donovan McNabb. He has a great arm and decent mechanics. He throws a great deep ball (he just doesn't have to in the system very often). When throwing workouts happen, he'll be a lock first rounder. I do have four or five juniors ranked ahead of him.

Mike Schottey=Mschottey...not scottish

Im sorry, but Tebow throws ducks a lot, his passing abilities are not impressive at all to me. The ball gets there but its not always pretty. He can run like a fb and avoids the pass rush really well, but he has open WR a lot because they stack the box to stop his running abilities.

Hongbit · #**119** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

Mike Schottey=Mschottey...not scottish

I think its a perfect fit. We've got a Mel Cruzer Jr, now we have a Todd McSchottey.

Hart · #**120** (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mschottey1985

Top ranked senior QB in this class as MSchottey put it

I rank the athlete first not the system or the competition. If you compare Tebow to former college QBs with his talents and abilities he compares favorably to Donovan McNabb. He has a great arm and decent mechanics. He throws a great deep ball (he just doesn't have to in the system very often). When throwing workouts happen, he'll be a lock first rounder. I do have four or five juniors ranked ahead of him.

Mike Schottey=Mschottey...not scottish

There is no way Tebow is a lock first rounder. It is going to take some extremely impressive workouts for him to move into the first round. He has no where near the arm McNabb does.