2010 NFL Draft

[TonyJM]

Originally Posted by Hongbit

Guys that are 6'3 235 with the combination of speed & power like Taylor Mays don't fall far on most draft boards.

I haven't been following him at all this year, hong, but is Damian Williams likely to leave after this season?

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by TonyJM

I haven't been following him at all this year, hong, but is Damian Williams likely to leave after this season?

He'd be a first rounder if he did. This is a loaded WR class.

[Hart]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

If the Lions could actually run the ball, it may allow the defense to improve because they wouldn't be on the field the entire game.

The Detroit Lions roster has precious few real quality players. To do anything less than to take the BPA wouldn't be real wise.

We should not take the BPA if he is a wide receiver. Or a quarterback. Or a running back. Or a tight end.

Instead of being called "best player available", it should be called "best player on our draft board." Every team says they took the BPA when they pick. That means nothing to me anymore. When is the last time a team said the guy they picked wasn't the best player available?

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Hart

We should not take the BPA if he is a wide receiver. Or a quarterback. Or a running back. Or a tight end.

Instead of being called "best player available", it should be called "best player on our draft board." Every team says they took the BPA when they pick. That means nothing to me anymore. When is the last time a team said the guy they picked wasn't the best player available?

I definitely agree. The draft board should be weighted, but trade downs must be kept in mind. This is a deep draft, so the Lions would be best served having multiple picks.

[TonyJM]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

He'd be a first rounder if he did. This is a loaded WR class.

Agreed...Not in terms of "top-10" talent, but it seems like it should be deep, which could be nice for a club like Detroit. I was impressed with Schottey's WR list, and he doesn't include Benn or Williams (they're both juniors).

Originally Posted by Hart

We should not take the BPA if he is a wide receiver. Or a quarterback. Or a running back. Or a tight end.

I agree, though I've never bought the "BPA" idea (which is probably why I'm not a scout). It seems like many of these guys are close enough, talent-wise, you should be able to draft both for need and "best player" (obviously with some exceptions).

Again, I was disappointed we didn't address the defensive line last season. I get that you can't build a team in a year, but our defense was historically bad. We were a field goal a game worse than the next worst defense in the league (St. Louis). This season, the defense remains the reason why we don't have a competitive football team. We're giving up roughly the same points per game (31.3), and if it wasn't for Tennessee's ridiculous thrashing this past Sunday, we'd still be the worst defense in football. They need help along the line and in coverage. It needs to be addressed early in the draft.


-Tony

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Two-thirds of that group has been around for much more than one year, and the defense was seriously neglected in the past. Last year, the Lions had the worst defense, possibly in NFL history. The first two selections were on offense with one being a tight end.

So far the group hasn't done much to break that offensive tradition that has been established in the past.

I'm well aware that Lewand and Mayhew were here during Millen's tenure. But by all accounts, Millen routinely disregarded the opinions of his scouts and coaches in draft decisions. I don't think it is accurate or helpful to view the current regime as a continuation of the previous regime. Millen was a bad GM - a bad talent evaluator, a bad drafter, and bad at listening to anyone who didn't share his opinion. He's gone now.

In particular, it doesn't seem plausible that Mayhew, a former DB, and Jim Schwartz, a former defensive coordinator, would get in a draft room and say "We can let defense slide; let's pick us some flashy offensive players." I'm willing to say that, the way the board fell, they had the opportunity to add some offensive players that promised to make the offense a strength. And when Stafford and Johnson are healthy, the offense shows signs of becoming really strong.

Let's hope they use their top three picks in the 2010 draft on defense.

[Buddha]

Negatives: Stiff in the upper body. Lacks the foot speed to recover on inside moves. Inconsistent speed to get to the second level; lumbers on some plays and looks fluid on others. Overextends when pass rushers free themselves after the initial blow. Slow and ineffective on cut blocks, whether on the line or trying to reach a blitzer on the outside. Needs better second effort if quarterback scrambles away from him. Injury history is a major issue.

National Football League: NFL Draft 2009 - Lydon Murtha

Stiff, problems with footwork, injury concerns.

Good tackles don't fall to the seventh round if there aren't serious red flags.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by Jason_R

I'm well aware that Lewand and Mayhew were here during Millen's tenure. But by all accounts, Millen routinely disregarded the opinions of his scouts and coaches in draft decisions. I don't think it is accurate or helpful to view the current regime as a continuation of the previous regime. Millen was a bad GM - a bad talent evaluator, a bad drafter, and bad at listening to anyone who didn't share his opinion. He's gone now.

In particular, it doesn't seem plausible that Mayhew, a former DB, and Jim Schwartz, a former defensive coordinator, would get in a draft room and say "We can let defense slide; let's pick us some flashy offensive players." I'm willing to say that, the way the board fell, they had the opportunity to add some offensive players that promised to make the offense a strength. And when Stafford and Johnson are healthy, the offense shows signs of becoming really strong.

Let's hope they use their top three picks in the 2010 draft on defense.

I don't think it's fair to judge Mayhew or Lewand because of Millen either. However, I will say that the only people I remember saying that Millen didn't listen to scouts were Mayhew and the people trying to keep their jobs after Millen left. I'd take that with a grain of salt as it's probably more cya than truth.

[Jason_R]

Originally Posted by Buddha

I don't think it's fair to judge Mayhew or Lewand because of Millen either. However, I will say that the only people I remember saying that Millen didn't listen to scouts were Mayhew and the people trying to keep their jobs after Millen left. I'd take that with a grain of salt as it's probably more cya than truth.

Maybe so, but I can believe that Millen is the kind of guy who would not give a damn what anybody else told him and overrule his entire staff on draft day. Anyway, my point was that it probably isn't accurate to say that this staff has a pattern of picking offensive players because Millen picked several busts at QB and WR. If they leave a dominating DT on the board next season to pick a RB in the first round, though, we'll have good reason to be upset.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

If the Lions could actually run the ball, it may allow the defense to improve because they wouldn't be on the field the entire game.

The Detroit Lions roster has precious few real quality players. To do anything less than to take the BPA wouldn't be real wise.

The best way to improve the defense is by getting defensive players. To suggest that there haven't been people that make sense as the BPA over the last few years on the defensive side of the ball when the Lions consistently make offensive selections is hard to believe. Once you get beyond pick No. 3 several people can be argued the BPA. To think Mr. X is clearly that guy is flat out silly.

Like I've said the last couple drafts, if the Lions actually are on the board and there isn't a player on the defensive side of the ball and on the offensive line that doesn't make sense as the BPA, they have to be the unluckiest franchise in sports history - from AYSO to the pros.

[Stormin' Norman]

Originally Posted by Hart

The Lions should be in good shape for the draft. I would imagine three quarterbacks will go in the top 10 (Bradford, Locker, Clausen, McCoy?) so that should open the door for some other guys to drop a little further than usual. And this draft is quite a bit stronger at the top than last years.

My top two choices would be Berry and McCoy, hands down. Forget that Berry is a safety. He is an absolute stud playmaker who would make a huge impact on defense immediately. If he drops to us because he is a safety, the Lions should snatch him immediately.

Brandon Graham at this point is a late first, early second rounder.

This is a bad year for QB's, awful really. Bradford will fall once evaluated on a Pro level, plus after his shoulder injuries - I would be surprised if he left OU. Locker is interesting and is a player I need to watch more of. Clausen is the best NFL prospect in this draft and McCoy is unlikely to be a first round QB.

Originally Posted by DTroppens

Two-thirds of that group has been around for much more than one year, and the defense was seriously neglected in the past. Last year, the Lions had the worst defense, possibly in NFL history. The first two selections were on offense with one being a tight end.

So far the group hasn't done much to break that offensive tradition that has been established in the past.

Simply because you are weak at one side of the ball doesn't mean that putting all your resources towards improving it is a good idea.

Originally Posted by Hart

We should not take the BPA if he is a wide receiver. Or a quarterback. Or a running back. Or a tight end.

Instead of being called "best player available", it should be called "best player on our draft board." Every team says they took the BPA when they pick. That means nothing to me anymore. When is the last time a team said the guy they picked wasn't the best player available?

If the BPA is a tremendous WR prospect, I hope we take him. And not simply for the comedy factor.

[pape06]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

I disagree. McCoy is ahead of Suh right now. Suh plays too high. There are others, who can make their way into the top 10. I also like Locker.

McCoy cannot dominate a game the way Suh can. I've watched more Oklahoma games than Nebraska games, and I've seen significantly more impressive plays on the part of Suh than McCoy. McCoy is a fine player and all, but Suh is a rare talent that nobody in college football near his size can compare to.

[zimm]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

His feet are his strength. He ran one of the better 40's for a tackle I've ever seen at the combine last year, showing his elite athleticism. He just needs more experience, and to stay healthy.

or an opportunity, which he will apparently now get from the Dolphins. per Rotoworld:

Dolphins signed OT Lydon Murtha off the Lions' practice squad.
Murtha has intriguing size (6'7/315) and athleticism, but he's already earned the "injury-prone" label.

[Stormin' Norman]

Haha, wonderful.

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by zimm

or an opportunity, which he will apparently now get from the Dolphins. per Rotoworld:

Cruzer's estimation of Murtha just dropped a few notches...

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Cruzer's estimation of Murtha just dropped a few notches...

No, I still think he'll end up starting at LT down the line in the NFL. Now the Lions could use a LT prospect, but there are guys I like such as Jeff Linkenbach, who plays for Cincinnati and would be available in the 3rd round or so. His stock might be soaring, though. I don't feel a LT must be drafted in the first round also. The Patriots got a good one in the fifth round in Sebastian Vollmer, and previously with Matt Light. That's my point.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by pape06

McCoy cannot dominate a game the way Suh can. I've watched more Oklahoma games than Nebraska games, and I've seen significantly more impressive plays on the part of Suh than McCoy. McCoy is a fine player and all, but Suh is a rare talent that nobody in college football near his size can compare to.

I completely disagree. They'll play against each other eventually. Watch how low McCoy plays. He plays with better leverage. Suh plays too high and is blockable.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

Simply because you are weak at one side of the ball doesn't mean that putting all your resources towards improving it is a good idea.

From about the turn of the century it seems I've had concerns with this team doing either next to nothing or very little to improve the defense in with most of the emphasis being based on the offense. And in that time I've watched the Lions become what may be the worst defense in NFL history over a 3-4 year period. Using your resources to improve that weakness isn't a bad idea. I have NEVER said the Lions MUST USE all of their resources to improve the defense. But just for one two-year period, I'd love to see the concentration be on that side of the ball. It's obvious that utilizing most of the resources on the offensive side hasn't worked. The selection of a tight end on a team with 1,000s of pressing needs so high in the draft shows how much this team is tilted to one side of the ball. To think that there wasn't a defensive player that could be argued the best player available when we were selecting tight ends, is hard to believe. Again, if that was the case, the Lions must be the as unlucky as they are horrible at making sound football decisions.


This isn't to say I don't see reasons for some optimism with the slections that the Lions made last year in the draft on the offensive side of the ball. I just find it hard to believe that every year it seemingly makes little sense to look at the side of the ball that's been the worst the NFL has seen for possibly 2-3 years now.

Sometime during the holiday season, the Lions will allow their 400th point of the year. It'll mark the third straight year the Lions will allow over 400 points for a season. In 2006, they allowed 398 points. Good luck being competitive allowing four touchdowns a game, regardless how good your offense may be. There comes a time you need to be able to put pressure on the QB, be able to rely on your secondary to get some picks and your linebackers to remain disciplined. And it would be nice to try to get that without a bunch of 30-something retreads.

Points allowed
2006 - 398
2007 - 444
2008 - 517
2009 - 501 (projected)

It's time to make the defense a priority.

[cruzer1]

I agree. Plus it's a good draft defensively. There should be plenty of help available. I'd like to see the Lions pick up more picks.

[cruzer1]

Here's a quick list of players at each position, results are not final obviously:

QB (this class is loaded with arms, very deep and very good. None of which are as good as 2009's top two though):

1. Jake Locker, Wash
2. Sam Bradford, OU
3. Colt McCoy, Texas
4. Jevan Snead, Ole Miss
5. Jon Crompton, Tennessee

RB (Ordinary class, desperately needs JR help)

1. Jonathon Dwyer, GT
2. Jahvid Best, Cal
3. Evan Royster, PSU
4. Demarco Murray, OU
5. CJ Spiller, Clemson

WR (Sensational class, very deep and talented)

1. Dez Bryant, OSU
2. Brandon Lafell, LSU
3. Arrellious Benn, Ill
4. Damian Williams, USC
5. Mardy Gilyard, Cinci

TE (Strong at top)

1. Jermaine Gresham, OU
2. Aaron Hernandez, Fla
3. Rob Gronkowski, Ariz.
4. Anthony McCoy, USC
5. Garrett Graham, Wisc

T (Solid and deep. More Right tackles than Left)

1. Trent Williams, OU
2. Russell Okung, OSU
3. Brian Bulaga, Iowa
4. Anthony Davis, Rutgers
5. Ciron Black, LSU

G-C (Will be some solid 2nd rounders. Better guards than centers)

1. Sergio Render, VT
2. Mike Johnson, Alabama
3. Jon Asamoah, Ill

DE (Great year)

1. Carlos Dunlap, Fla
2. Jason Pierre-Paul, SF
3. Derrick Morgan, GT
4. Greg Hardy, Miss
5. Jerry Hughes, TCU

DT (Solid year, top heavy)

1. Gerald McCoy, OU
2. Nda Suh, Neb
3. Terrence Cody, Alabama
4. Arthur Jones, Clem
5. Marvin Austin, NC

ILB (Really solid, but top heavy)

1. Rolando McClain, Ala
2. Brandon Spikes, Fla
3. Scott Lutrus, Conn
4. Obi Ezah, UM
5. Scott Pawelek, Baylor

OLB (Legendary year, combined with DE)

1. Navarro Bowman, PSU
2. Sean Weatherspoon, Missouri
3. Sergio Kindle, Texas
4. Eric Norwood, South Car
5. Greg Jones, MSU

CB (Good, not great year.)

1. Joe Haden, Fla
2. Patrick Robinson, FSU
3. Trevard Lindley, Kentucky
4. Kyle Wilson, Boise St
5. DeAndre Morgan, NC State

S (Very strong at the top)

1. Taylor Mays, USC
2. Eric Berry, Tennessee
3. Myron Rolle, FSU
4. Morgan Burnett, GT
5. Anderson Russell, OSU

[detroitdan]

Like others here, I think DT and CB have to be top priorities. Other than Delmas, who has become my favourite player, the secondary is motley.

I know this is wishful thinking, but it would also be nice if they could find a decent WR later in the draft, late first day/early second day. I'm guessing that's what they were trying to do with Williams this year. But we've seen the Packers take Greg Jennings later in the third round, the Broncos take Eddie Royal in the second round, the Bears take Johnny Knox in the fourth round and this year the Steelers take Mike Wallace in the third round. It sure would be nice if they could get this right.

[cruzer1]

Jennings went in the 2nd, Knox in the fifth (with the throw in pick in the Cutler deal), and I think Wallace went in the 4th, but I could be mistaken.

[Fool Inc.]

Looking at the draft class, I would not be opposed to picking up a WR, but I would need to see a couple of solid free agents (like Foote) signed. Still too many wholes to fill to take a WR in the 2nd round IMO.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Fool Inc.

Looking at the draft class, I would not be opposed to picking up a WR, but I would need to see a couple of solid free agents (like Foote) signed. Still too many wholes to fill to take a WR in the 2nd round IMO.

There will be plenty of talent available in the middle rounds.

[Johnny Mac]

CB (Good, not great year.)

1. Joe Haden, Fla
2. Patrick Robinson, FSU
3. Trevard Lindley, Kentucky
4. Kyle Wilson, Boise St
5. DeAndre Morgan, NC State

as someone who has seen him play every game, if he is the 2nd rated CB then this is a horrible year for CB.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

as someone who has seen him play every game, if he is the 2nd rated CB then this is a horrible year for CB.

It's all about physical talent, he definitely needs to play better. I've got him rated ahead than most I've seen, but I think he's got the talent to be a solid NFL CB.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

It's all about physical talent, he definitely needs to play better. I've got him rated ahead than most I've seen, but I think he's got the talent to be a solid NFL CB.

Physically he is there, but man he has had a horrible season. He actually hasn't been good in 2 years. He had a real good sophomore season but was average last season and brutal this season. He has gotten beat so many times and is a major reason FSU secondary has been one of the worst in d-1. I mean honestly what does he do well? He has 1 pick the last season and a half, he is not a great tackler, he is not a heavy hitter, he gets beat regularly. Outside of his physical build he does nothing a top corner should do. He is average at best.

[sinister porpoise]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

The selection of a tight end on a team with 1,000s of pressing needs so high in the draft shows how much this team is tilted to one side of the ball. To think that there wasn't a defensive player that could be argued the best player available when we were selecting tight ends, is hard to believe. Again, if that was the case, the Lions must be the as unlucky as they are horrible at making sound football decisions.

The only players I liked around that slot were Vontae Davis and Clay Matthews; Davis had serious character concerns and Matthews is a 3-4 LB.

[sinister porpoise]

NFP's Super 30: Washington's Locker tops list - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

Physically he is there, but man he has had a horrible season. He actually hasn't been good in 2 years. He had a real good sophomore season but was average last season and brutal this season. He has gotten beat so many times and is a major reason FSU secondary has been one of the worst in d-1. I mean honestly what does he do well? He has 1 pick the last season and a half, he is not a great tackler, he is not a heavy hitter, he gets beat regularly. Outside of his physical build he does nothing a top corner should do. He is average at best.

He can run really well, and has great size. Needs to be coached up. I think he'll get drafted in the late first/early second.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

He can run really well, and has great size. Needs to be coached up.

ill give you he hasnt had the best coaching, but the guys who show physical gifts but dont show it on the field scare me in the draft.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

ill give you he hasnt had the best coaching, but the guys who show physical gifts but dont show it on the field scare me in the draft.

The Lions corners don't have physical gifts. They need athletes, guys that run fast in all facets. Look at the Chicago game, and the Mike Wallace TD. They can't keep up right now.

[Johnny Mac]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

The Lions corners don't have physical gifts. They need athletes, guys that run fast in all facets. Look at the Chicago game, and the Mike Wallace TD. They can't keep up right now.

Watch a FSU game, you will see PRob trying to chase down WR a ton. He has given up a TON of long pass plays where he ended up trying to chase down a WR.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Mac

Watch a FSU game, you will see PRob trying to chase down WR a ton. He has given up a TON of long pass plays where he ended up trying to chase down a WR.

I thought he played well against Miami.

[sbcaptain2]

Cruzer, what do you think of UConn's Lindsey Witten?

[darko31]

Originally Posted by detroitdan

I know this is wishful thinking, but it would also be nice if they could find a decent WR later in the draft, late first day/early second day. I'm guessing that's what they were trying to do with Williams this year. But we've seen the Packers take Greg Jennings later in the third round, the Broncos take Eddie Royal in the second round, the Bears take Johnny Knox in the fourth round and this year the Steelers take Mike Wallace in the third round. It sure would be nice if they could get this right.

I think Derrick Williams could eventually become a very solid #2.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by sbcaptain2

Cruzer, what do you think of UConn's Lindsey Witten?

Mid rounder, but I need to see more of him, to see if he's able to put his hand in the ground, or is he a LB? He has good size for a LB, and that's where the NFL is going right now, but it's a tough year for a guy like him.

[Mschottey1985]

Here's my list.

Cruz and I obviously look at different things. He tends toward physical talent while I tend to care less about a 40-time if I know a guy can play.

Right now, it is looking like our biggest discrepancy is who we have coming out this year. I'm "senior-loaded" unless I feel I have a good handle on a guy coming out.

Other than that, I foresee about a billion Suh/McCoy and Mays/Berry arguments over the next six months.



QB--I'm taking Sam Bradford out because of his season ending surgery

1. Casey Clausen, ND
2. Jake Locker, Wash
3. Tony Pike, Cin
4. Tim Tebow, Fla
5. Colt McCoy, Tx

RB--Weak Class, I have more guys staying at the moment

1. CJ Spiller, Clemson
2. Jahvid Best, Cal
3. Charles Scott, LSU
4. Demarco Murray, OU
5. Toby Gerhart, Stanford (FB?)

WR

1. Dez Bryant, OSU
2. Mardy Gilyard, Cincy
3. Brandon Lafell, LSU
4. Eric Decker, Minn
5. Mike Williams, Syracuse

TE

1. Jermaine Gresham, OU
2. Ed Dickson, Oregon
3. Dennis Pitta, BYU
4. Anthony McCoy, USC
5. Garrett Graham, Wisc

OT

1. Bryan Bulaga, Iowa
2. Russell Okung, OSU
3. Trent Williams, Oklahoma
4. Charles Brown, USC
5. Selvish Capers, W. Va

Interior Linemen

1. Mike Iupati, Idaho
2. Matt Tennant, BC
3. Jon Asamoah, Ill
4. John Estes, Hawaii
5. Mitch Petrus, Arkansas

DE--I'm very high on Dunlap, but needs to improve on field

1. Greg Hardy, Ole Miss
2. Carlos Dunlap, Florida
3. Brandon Graham, MI
4. Brandon Lang, Troy
5. Jerry Hughes, TCU

DT

1. Ndamukong Suh, Neb
2. Gerald McCoy, Oklahoma
3. Arthur Jones, Syracuse
4. Jared Odrick, Penn State
5. Marvin Austin, NC

ILB

1. Brandon Spikes, Fla
2. Rolando McClain, Ala
3. Sean Lee, Penn State
4. AJ Edds, Iowa (OLB?)
5. Greg Jones, MSU

OLB--Year of the "Tweener"

1. Ricky Sapp, Clemson
2. Sean Witherspoon, Mizzou
3. Eric Norwood, S. Carolina
4. Sergio Kindle, Texas
5. George Selvie, S. Florida

CB--Very weak year until workouts

1. Eric Berry, Tenn (top ranked S and CB)
2. Joe Haden, Florida
3. Ras-I Dowling, W. Virginia
4. Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest
5. Patrick Robinson, FSU

S--one of the better S classes in a while

1a. Eric Berry, Tenn
1b. Taylor Mays, USC
1c. Myron Rolle, FSU
2. Nate Allen, S Florida
3. Darrell Stuckey, Kansas

[Buddha]

BTW: How stupid does Sam Bradford feel right now?

[tigerkid23]

Originally Posted by Buddha

BTW: How stupid does Sam Bradford feel right now?

Yeah. Luckily, he's still a junior and not a senior, so he has next year to build up his stock again.