DRAFT 1.1 QB Matthew Stafford

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by brighteststar69

http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/2009/05...-contract.html

A little info on Stafford's contract for those interested. It is worded nicely, he will not make near what is being reported.

Did you read the rest of the thread?

[BigBoiKzoo]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Did you read the rest of the thread?

I know. That was strange. I felt very deja vu. Heck, it was even on the same page.

I won't know if we paid him too much until after I've seen him play. The one part that bugs me about the whole contract is that we have to pick up his option for 2014 by 2010. That tells me that we'll start him at some point year 1. How will we know to pay him that amount of money if we don't start him? If we don't pick up the option, he still gets most of the money because a clause kicks in. That is dumb. Not for Stafford, but for the Lions.

Time will tell.

[brighteststar69]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

Did you read the rest of the thread?

My bad, read about half of it, the entire thread went down since last time I read, figured I got the jest of it and thought a few people may be interested in the contract info.

But by the language, all the people that say we payed him too much are listening to the media too closely. I hope Stafford gets every bit of that contract, because if he does, he deserves every bit of it and there is a good chance we are perennial playoff contenders. IMO Culpepper is the one being overpaid, all he is here for is to take snaps and sacks in place of Stafford until he is ready. Tackling dummies can come cheaper than Pepper did.

[BigBoiKzoo]

Originally Posted by brighteststar69

But by the language, all the people that say we payed him too much are listening to the media too closely. I hope Stafford gets every bit of that contract, because if he does, he deserves every bit of it and there is a good chance we are perennial playoff contenders. IMO Culpepper is the one being overpaid, all he is here for is to take snaps and sacks in place of Stafford until he is ready. Tackling dummies can come cheaper than Pepper did.

Not really. Most of his escalators due with snaps, not performance. If he's a solid QB, I'm all for it. If he's sucking it up, he better be ready to renegoiate a more team friendly contract since he's essentially making a small mint.

[brighteststar69]

Originally Posted by BigBoiKzoo

Not really. Most of his escalators due with snaps, not performance. If he's a solid QB, I'm all for it. If he's sucking it up, he better be ready to renegoiate a more team friendly contract since he's essentially making a small mint.

Some escalators are due on snaps, but he would have to go to the pro-bowl every year or lead he league to hit the big escalators. I don't know about you, but if Stafford takes 65% of the snaps all 7 years, I feel he would be worth the 6 mill a year he would make, because he probably is good enough to deserve it if he is taking that many snaps.

[High Mileage]

[lesgoblu02]

Hopefully, you can find a bigger picture next time.

[High Mileage]

Originally Posted by lesgoblu02

Hopefully, you can find a bigger picture next time.

I tried.

[Hongbit]

Found a link that will fix the screen for everyone who's page is tweaked now. Works like a charm.

[High Mileage]

Originally Posted by Hongbit

Found a link that will fix the screen for everyone who's page is tweaked now. Works like a charm.

LOL.

[GuitarGod19]

Sanchez is getting eaten alive in NY...at least Stafford won't have to worry about the GQ mockery...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/200...gles_in_n.html

[snoogit]

Originally Posted by GuitarGod19

Sanchez is getting eaten alive in NY...at least Stafford won't have to worry about the GQ mockery...

http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/200...gles_in_n.html

Thats expected.

[GuitarGod19]

Originally Posted by snoogit

Thats expected.

Which part? Sanchez sucking it up or the vets giving him crap for sucking it up?

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by Hongbit

Found a link that will fix the screen for everyone who's page is tweaked now. Works like a charm.

Thank you, Hong.

[Vonlenska]

That picture doesn't stretch my screen at all.

[stevie-y]

Thanks High Mileage, that is now my desktop background.

[Hongbit]

Originally Posted by Vonlenska

That picture doesn't stretch my screen at all.

The software update this morning fixed it. It only stretches the post instead of the entire thread like it used to.

And you've got serious issues, Stevie if you want to look at that picture everyday.

[stevie-y]

Originally Posted by Hongbit

The software update this morning fixed it. It only stretches the post instead of the entire thread like it used to.

And you've got serious issues, Stevie if you want to look at that picture everyday.

When I get depressed about a Wings or Tigers loss, or life in general, I just look at my computer and remember things could be worse.

[snoogit]

Originally Posted by GuitarGod19

Which part? Sanchez sucking it up or the vets giving him crap for sucking it up?

generally one follows the other.

[High Mileage]

Originally Posted by stevie-y

When I get depressed about a Wings or Tigers loss, or life in general, I just look at my computer and remember things could be worse.

Want me to try to find a Culpepper/Orlovsky pic that big?

[belcherboy]

Alright now, hindsight....what do you think now that the season is over?

Was Stafford the right move? Would we have done better with someone else?

I wasn't a fan of Stafford and was hoping we could trade down, but even with a poor season by Stafford, I think he may become a good QB in this league. I'd like to get him some more protection, but I am optimistic.

What do you think?

[Stormin' Norman]

Stafford didn't have a poor season.

Yes, he had 13 TD's to 20 INT's, but he was also asked to do a whole hell of a lot more than Sanchez, Ryan or Flacco.

Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez averaged 25-27 throws a game, had strong defenses and were simply asked to manage games.

Stafford averaged 37 throws a game with the last ranked scoring defense and a bottom 5 running game.

For what Stafford was asked to do, as a 21 year old rookie, he did a fantastic job.

Meanwhile Jason Smith is a RT with some health red flags (took way to long to recover from his concussion) and Aaron Curry is a 2 down linebacker.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

Stafford didn't have a poor season.

Yes, he had 13 TD's to 20 INT's, but he was also asked to do a whole hell of a lot more than Sanchez, Ryan or Flacco.

Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez averaged 25-27 throws a game, had strong defenses and were simply asked to manage games.

Stafford averaged 37 throws a game with the last ranked scoring defense and a bottom 5 running game.

For what Stafford was asked to do, as a 21 year old rookie, he did a fantastic job.

Meanwhile Jason Smith is a RT with some health red flags (took way to long to recover from his concussion) and Aaron Curry is a 2 down linebacker.

First off, he did have a really lousy season. Did he have reasons that helped create that bad season? Sure. But by all accounts it was a lousy season. If you are saying he did a fantastic job, I can only imagine what you'd consider lousy.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

First off, he did have a really lousy season. Did he have reasons that helped create that bad season? Sure. But by all accounts it was a lousy season. If you are saying he did a fantastic job, I can only imagine what you'd consider lousy.

So, you're saying the Lions need to draft a QB at #2?

[sagnam]

Having potential and having performed well are two vastly different things.

[cruzer1]

Originally Posted by sagnam

Having potential and having performed well are two vastly different things.

He was performing extremely well until he got injured. He got off to a bad start, but in the two victories was the best player on the field.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

So, you're saying the Lions need to draft a QB at #2?

No, I never said that. I'm not sure where you got that. I just saw a post that described Stafford's season as fantastic. I disagreed with the comment overwhelmingly and posted my opinion.

I never said Stafford's season suggested he'll be a failure or a success in any post this year. I have made posts tempering those that act as though he's already accomplished something of great merit, when I don't know if that's really a credible thing to say.

What I'll say about Stafford's first season is that he got his feet wet, got a lot of experience in many games, had a couple decent ones and had plenty of bad ones. But probably the most important thing was he played. If he is a potential QB of the future as many of us hope, this season should've given him a good start toward being a year closer to that ultimate goal. But right now, I don't think anyone can conclusively suggest he's going to be a hit or a bust, especially a hit after what was a rather poor season.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by sagnam

Having potential and having performed well are two vastly different things.

Exactly.

[sagnam]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

He was performing extremely well until he got injured. He got off to a bad start, but in the two victories was the best player on the field.

So you are saying he was inconsistent. Does that mean he did a fantastic job?

[Buddha]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

If you are saying he did a fantastic job, I can only imagine what you'd consider lousy.

Any season by any other rookie quarterback not named Stafford.

I think Stafford was fine for a rookie QB. Lots of room to grow. When compared to the rest of the league, he was the worst QB not named Russell or possibly Cassel.

Overall, Stafford was a little better than I'd thought he'd be. I would have rather had a tackle or Sanchez, but that's me. Stafford has the potential to be pretty good. I still think he'll end up being Jay Cutler, but that's not the worst thing in the world.

Just a note, the same people who claim the Lions have all this talent on offense and defense are the same people who are saying we need to cut Stafford a break because he plays on such a lousy team. I find that amusing.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

He was performing extremely well until he got injured. He got off to a bad start, but in the two victories was the best player on the field.

His best game was clearly the Browns game. He did have a great game. He showed great poise and leadership in the process as well. But I think it's really easy to take one or two games and suggest that these games override the body of work of the entire season. And I think that's what a lot of Lions fans (heck not just Lions fans, all fans love to do this stuff in every sport, including myself I suppose somewhere on these boards), love to do to suggest how good Stafford was this year. The two games prior to his last two games in which he was healthy, he was probably among the worst quarterbacks in the league. He had a couple other reasonable performances, but he also started the season with two really poor performances as well. And after the injury, he did play. Can we suggest those injuries hurt his performances? Sure. But he still played and those are parts of his body of work as well. And playing hurt is part of the NFL. Hopefully, it'll never be to the extreme he was experiencing, but it's part of it.

Was Stafford a strong player in the two wins? Yes. But in many of those losses he played starring roles why the team lost.

Stafford will have other days to prove his ability. And he should be a better player being about a year older, wiser and more experienced. But for this season, it's hard to look at what he accomplished and say "Yeah, that was a great season." At least I can't buy that.

[cruzer1]

I don't know how you could want Sanchez over Stafford. There's no comparison to me. Stafford has much more talent.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Overall, Stafford was a little better than I'd thought he'd be.

I didn't have great expectations for him at all this year. I hoped he would beat out his competition for the starting QB position since it seemed like that was the 100 percent reason someone would be starting. I would've been worried (based on what we saw last year) if he couldn't beat out Culpepper. I think I mentioned that at least a few times on the board.

I saw a few things I liked with him the biggest aspects having to do with his character, leadership and that kind of stuff. I think he showed a lot in that respect. But those things need to be enhanced with eventual performance. And for the most part, I didn't feel like the team was suddenly better or worse when Stafford was out there beside our other two options. It was hard to expect a ton out of him. He had little talent surrounding him. He was a rookie. He was put in bad situations based on lopsided scores. But I also think the pass protection was better this year (one of the pluses I can put on this year), and he wasn't the beaten up ragdoll via millions of hits that people like to suggest. He certainly got hurt by a hit, but I didn't think he was hit more than anyone was last season - again I thought the line pass protected noticeably better this year compared to last.

I never put numbers or anything like that on it, but I never really expected much. I thought he'd be a below average NFL QB because he was a rookie and on a poor offensive team. But my gut has me thinking I expected a reasonable more than what we saw - especially after getting better protection that I ever expected out of the line.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by cruzer1

I don't know how you could want Sanchez over Stafford. There's no comparison to me. Stafford has much more talent.

Looking at how comparable their stats are and knowing Sanchez had a better cast of players around him, including a sound running game, it seems I'd agree that it looks like Stafford had the better season.

Then again, I probably saw Sanchez throw about 10 passes all year, and those were during highlights. I don't doubt the NFL will put the Jets on Thanksgiving - the rookie QB matchup as well as the NY market.

[Stormin' Norman]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

First off, he did have a really lousy season. Did he have reasons that helped create that bad season? Sure. But by all accounts it was a lousy season. If you are saying he did a fantastic job, I can only imagine what you'd consider lousy.

Was it a fantastic year compared to Peyton Manning and Drew Brees? Of course not.

Was it a fantastic year for a rookie QB? Absolutely.

What more did anyone want from a rookie QB?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Originally Posted by DTroppens

I didn't have great expectations for him at all this year. I hoped he would beat out his competition for the starting QB position since it seemed like that was the 100 percent reason someone would be starting. I would've been worried (based on what we saw last year) if he couldn't beat out Culpepper. I think I mentioned that at least a few times on the board.

I saw a few things I liked with him the biggest aspects having to do with his character, leadership and that kind of stuff. I think he showed a lot in that respect. But those things need to be enhanced with eventual performance. And for the most part, I didn't feel like the team was suddenly better or worse when Stafford was out there beside our other two options. It was hard to expect a ton out of him. He had little talent surrounding him. He was a rookie. He was put in bad situations based on lopsided scores. But I also think the pass protection was better this year (one of the pluses I can put on this year), and he wasn't the beaten up ragdoll via millions of hits that people like to suggest. He certainly got hurt by a hit, but I didn't think he was hit more than anyone was last season - again I thought the line pass protected noticeably better this year compared to last.

I never put numbers or anything like that on it, but I never really expected much. I thought he'd be a below average NFL QB because he was a rookie and on a poor offensive team. But my gut has me thinking I expected a reasonable more than what we saw - especially after getting better protection that I ever expected out of the line.

I think some part of the reason that pass protection looked better was Stafford generally was decisive and got rid of the ball pretty quickly. That was actually the thing I appreciated the most out of Matthew.

I hope he learns to read defenses better / make better decisions as he gains experience. I have hope he will be a good qb, but agree with the sentiment expressed by some that his season wasn't all that good or there really isn't enough evidence to begin to make a verdict on the pick, other than it hasn't been horrible flaming death. I suppose it is what I would expect out of a rookie qb.

[Stormin' Norman]

Originally Posted by Buddha

Any season by any other rookie quarterback not named Stafford.

I think Stafford was fine for a rookie QB. Lots of room to grow. When compared to the rest of the league, he was the worst QB not named Russell or possibly Cassel.

That's simply not true.

Overall, Stafford was a little better than I'd thought he'd be. I would have rather had a tackle or Sanchez, but that's me. Stafford has the potential to be pretty good. I still think he'll end up being Jay Cutler, but that's not the worst thing in the world.

The fact you would still rather have Sanchez over Stafford is incredibly amusing. Sanchez, in a much better situation, was less successful than Stafford.

Just a note, the same people who claim the Lions have all this talent on offense and defense are the same people who are saying we need to cut Stafford a break because he plays on such a lousy team. I find that amusing.

I have no problem admitting I woefully underestimated the talent on Detroit's roster. I expected more out of the running game and I expected more out of Bryant Johnson.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I think some part of the reason that pass protection looked better was Stafford generally was decisive and got rid of the ball pretty quickly. That was actually the thing I appreciated the most out of Matthew.

That is a pretty good point. But it seemed it was relatively okay for the other QBs as well.

But I thought it was reasonable for the other QBs as well. I know there were a reasonable number of sacks this year and I'm sure Culpepper had his share. In fact, I saw the numbers earlier today and know he did. But he was freakin indecisive and "forced" those sacks. I gave the offensive line a semi-pass on the sacks a few years ago because Kitna not only wouldn't get rid of it, but he felt the pressure so poorly, he'd work himself right into it. But with Stafford those haven't been issues.

This is also where not going to eight games a year the last couple of seasons has killed me. You don't get the same feel about the games on TV. And when you go to only about 3 games a year, it doesn't sink in as well as it does for 8.

[sagnam]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I think some part of the reason that pass protection looked better was Stafford generally was decisive and got rid of the ball pretty quickly. That was actually the thing I appreciated the most out of Matthew.

While I agree that Stafford was better at getting the ball out quicker than we've seen from the Lion QBs in years past, I think the protection looked better than last year for Culpepper as well and Culpepper didn't seem to get the ball out any quicker than last season.

[DTroppens]

Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman

I have no problem admitting I woefully underestimated the talent on Detroit's roster. I expected more out of the running game and I expected more out of Bryant Johnson.

I think one thing we learned is that maybe we learned in his absence is that Kevin Smith is not only not the answer, but maybe not even serviceable. Morris has outperformed him since he's entered the starting lineup. I don't think that much about Morris, but we see him occasionally making it to the second tier of the defense and seemingly you feel better about him getting closer to the maximum out of his runs. You hardly felt this about Smith, but people gave the offensive line much of that heat because I think they wanted Smith to be at least part of the answer. But right now Morris has shown to be much more capable than Smith ever was this year.