Peyton Harrington

**jake** · 01-19-2006, 11:11 AM

Peyton's playoff stats are going downhill quick. He looked just as bad as Joey on Sunday. I guess that's what happens when he's getting sacked, his running game isn't working, and his receivers aren't getting open.

**Yoda** · 01-19-2006, 11:12 AM

Funny how that works, isn't it?

**Canon Fodder** · 01-19-2006, 11:24 AM

Their situations have little in common. I'll give you pro-Harrington folks a Mulligan on Joey not having ideal working conditions, but Manning flatout choked against the Steelers.

I thought much of the barking Manning does at the line was adjustments to the blocking schemes...I guess he had some difficulty reading what the Steelers were showing.

And doesn't Peyton 'Mr. Audible' Manning have something to do with RB Edge James only touching the ball a dozen or so times?

At least Harrington is a good teammate without having to mention he's "trying to be a good teammate." Manning deserves all the flack he gets for this loss because he gets a lion's share of the credit for Indy's success.

**jake** · 01-19-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Canon Fodder

Their situations have little in common. I'll give you pro-Harrington folks a Mulligan on Joey not having ideal working conditions, but Manning flatout choked against the Steelers.

I thought much of the barking Manning does at the line was adjustments to the blocking schemes...I guess he had some difficulty reading what the Steelers were showing.

And doesn't Peyton 'Mr. Audible' Manning have something to do with RB Edge James only touching the ball a dozen or so times?

At least Harrington is a good teammate without having to mention he's "trying to be a good teammate." Manning deserves all the flack he gets for this loss because he gets a lion's share of the credit for Indy's success.

I agree. I can't stand Manning. He's been in a perfect situation and gets way too much credit for his teams success. He has great players around him. His line never lets him get touched, usually. His running back is outstanding. His receivers are quick, fast and get open quick and catch the ball. That's the main difference between the two teams. . . Manning has receivers who get open quickly and catch the ball. Harrington has had free agents playing WR who have no speed or hands or he has big slow injured rookies with attitudes who don't play hard. Reverse their situations and it would have been completely different for both players.

**Canon Fodder** · 01-19-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by jake

..Reverse their situations and it would have been completely different for both players.

I won't go quite that far. Manning is definitely in a situation where a QB with his skills can succeed. Harrington probably wouldn't be as productive if he were running the Colts offense -- though it's better suited for him than Detroit.

On the other hand, I do believe Manning would be more successful than Harrington under center for the Lions. This is just because (I believe) Manning is a quality NFL QB while Harrington is nothing more than a decent backup at best. The Lions wouldn't start the season 13-0, but they probably would be better off with Manning at the helm.

**mk96** · 01-19-2006, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by Jake
...Reverse their situations and it would have been completely different for both players.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Joey hasn't show the ability to complete a three yard touch pass to the running back, what makes you think he can hit open receivers down field.

It's funny how the team around him didn't stop Joey from having games where he looked great. Unfortunately, he can't string good performances together, and quickly goes back to playing like a turd.

**jake** · 01-19-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Canon Fodder

I won't go quite that far. Manning is definitely in a situation where a QB with his skills can succeed. Harrington probably wouldn't be as productive if he were running the Colts offense -- though it's better suited for him than Detroit.

On the other hand, I do believe Manning would be more successful than Harrington under center for the Lions. This is just because (I believe) Manning is a quality NFL QB while Harrington is nothing more than a decent backup at best. The Lions wouldn't start the season 13-0, but they probably would be better off with Manning at the helm.

If Manning was in Detroit as a rookie like Harrington was and dealt with the same crap, he sure wouldn't be an all-pro. He'd be Joey Harrington and the jury would still be out. That's how I see it. Harrington sucks now and Manning is an all-pro. I agree. That's not my point, though. Manning doesn't handle adversity well. We've seen that in the playoffs and we definitely saw that Sunday. He couldn't have handled the Detroit situation. He's not tough enough.

**Canon Fodder** · 01-19-2006, 02:20 PM

You may be right; Manning would have failed in Harrington's shoes. However, I don't feel Harrington would have succeeded as well in Manning's situation.

**DrWho17** · 01-19-2006, 03:42 PM

Wow, the Harrington supporters just won't let go, amazing how such a failure of a player still has supporters. Comparing Manning to Harrington, there is no comparison. People seem to forget the Lions offensive line set records for quarterback protection Harringtons first two years in the league, what was wrong with Harrington then?

**Mikeshoe21** · 01-19-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

Wow, the Harrington supporters just won't let go, amazing how such a failure of a player still has supporters. Comparing Manning to Harrington, there is no comparison. People seem to forget the Lions offensive line set records for quarterback protection Harringtons first two years in the league, what was wrong with Harrington then?

He was dumping the ball off or throwing the ball away constantly to avoid sacks...hence the low sack totals, and what was wrong with him

**DrWho17** · 01-19-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by jake

If Manning was in Detroit as a rookie like Harrington was and dealt with the same crap, he sure wouldn't be an all-pro. He'd be Joey Harrington and the jury would still be out. That's how I see it. Harrington sucks now and Manning is an all-pro. I agree. That's not my point, though. Manning doesn't handle adversity well. We've seen that in the playoffs and we definitely saw that Sunday. He couldn't have handled the Detroit situation. He's not tough enough.

The Colts were a *worse* team then the Lions when Peyton Manning joined the team (hence they had the #1 pick). Their situations are quite comparable, one has become an all pro, one has flopped.

**Canon Fodder** · 01-19-2006, 03:47 PM

Boy, I sure hope I didn't just get lumped in as a Harrington supporter. For the record, I feel Harrington is mediocre under ideal conditions and Peyton Manning is painfully overrated. (And the fact I hate him for playing under Phil "I'll punish Michigan by ranking them 4th in the nation because Charles Woodson beat out my golden boy for the Heisman" Fulmer.)

But I'm not bitter or anything.

**DrWho17** · 01-19-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mikeshoe21

He was dumping the ball off or throwing the ball away constantly to avoid sacks...hence the low sack totals, and what was wrong with him

So if the quarterback doesn't get sacked it is because Harrington does a great job, but if the quarterback does get sacked it is because the offensive line is terrible, gotcha. Nothing is Harrington's fault obviously unless it reflects well on him.

**Mikeshoe21** · 01-19-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

So if the quarterback doesn't get sacked it is because Harrington does a great job, but if the quarterback does get sacked it is because the offensive line is terrible, gotcha. Nothing is Harrington's fault obviously unless it reflects well on him.

When did I say he did a great job? Did I say he did a good job? Did I say he was right in throwing the ball away, rather than holding it for a couple more seconds and waiting for something downfield to open up? Or are you so skewed by your Harrington hatred that by simply pointing out that he threw the ball away to avoid sacks, you turn it into "Joey did a great job of getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks and the offensive line..yada yada yada?

**Canon Fodder** · 01-19-2006, 03:56 PM

I thought Harrington's ability to get rid of the ball before getting sacked was one of his (few) assets? I was always saying stuff like, "Well at least he doesn't take a lot of sacks." Now it's a bad thing?

This Harrington guy is confusing. We should cut him immediately.

**DrWho17** · 01-19-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mikeshoe21

When did I say he did a great job? Did I say he did a good job? Did I say he was right in throwing the ball away, rather than holding it for a couple more seconds and waiting for something downfield to open up? Or are you so skewed by your Harrington hatred that by simply pointing out that he threw the ball away to avoid sacks, you turn it into "Joey did a great job of getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks and the offensive line..yada yada yada?

Well I'm sorry for lumping you in with the blind supporters of this guy if that wasn't your intention, it just sounded like yet another excuse for people to justify their belief that Harrington is a good player.

**Tigercub33** · 01-19-2006, 04:28 PM

..........and yet there are those who hate Harrington with such gusto that they over look the fact that, on occasion, he has actually been decent.

**DetroitFolly** · 01-19-2006, 04:32 PM

What the Colts need to do is go out and sign Tee Martin. Then they might actually WIN a big game.

Peyton's a great QB...but he's a CHOKER. He Choked in College, he's choking in the pros.

At least Joey won the only big game he's played in.

**qsilvr2531** · 01-19-2006, 04:42 PM

Is Manning a choker, or is Dungy a choker? Or do they both combine to create a larger choker than when they are individuals? What about Marvin Harrison, he's kinda a choker too.

Fact is, the Colts are great on offense except their offensive line has alot of trouble dealing with really good 3-4 defenses (not just this year, but in the past as well). And their defense (and offense to an extent) was way overrated this year because they had a soft schedule to start out the year.

I think Manning would ahve been fine in Detroit. He wouldn't be as good as he has been with Indy, because he'd never have gotten the talent around him, but he'd be significantly better than Harrington, even with the adversity.

**DrWho17** · 01-19-2006, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tigercub33

..........and yet there are those who hate Harrington with such gusto that they over look the fact that, on occasion, he has actually been decent.

If only the Lions could play the Cardinals 16 times a year.

**Tigercub33** · 01-19-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by DrWho17

If only the Lions could play the Cardinals 16 times a year.

Didn't he do pretty well against the Steelers as well?

**Brent** · 01-19-2006, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tigercub33

..........and yet there are those who hate Harrington with such gusto that they over look the fact that, on occasion, he has actually been decent.

The problem isn't that he has a decent or even good game. The problem is he has 2 or 3 horrible games for every good game. Inconsistency at QB will kill a team.

All the talk about Dilfer leading a team to the Super Bowl title or guys like Marino and Manning falling short of a title. There is no doubt a QB needs a supporting cast, but he also has to be consistent. Dilfer took care of the ball and was able to get enough 1st downs that his team consistently won the battle of field position. Joey can't do that. Joey is like a box of chocolates and at QB, that ain't good.

**GartenSpartan** · 01-19-2006, 08:21 PM

One of the things I don't think that Joey was very good at was game managing...that's one of the things Marinelli talked about in his press conference when he was praising Brad Johnson. In my opinion, this was evident by the poor third down plays, such as the third and long 4 yard check down...not only that but recognizing the defense and changing the play at the line. whether or not the coaching staff didn't give him the ability to do that, I would assume it would at least be hard for Marinelli to evaluate Joey in an area he believes is important.

**estrepe1** · 01-19-2006, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Brent

The problem isn't that he has a decent or even good game. The problem is he has 2 or 3 horrible games for every good game. Inconsistency at QB will kill a team.

All the talk about Dilfer leading a team to the Super Bowl title or guys like Marino and Manning falling short of a title. There is no doubt a QB needs a supporting cast, but he also has to be consistent. Dilfer took care of the ball and was able to get enough 1st downs that his team consistently won the battle of field position. Joey can't do that. Joey is like a box of chocolates and at QB, that ain't good.

I agree... I would be happy with Joey if he would just protect the ball and get first downs. He wouldn't have to be Carson Palmer, just be a Trent Dilfer type.

It doesn't seem to me that he is even capable of that.

**Jonesy** · 01-20-2006, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by GartenSpartan

One of the things I don't think that Joey was very good at was game managing...that's one of the things Marinelli talked about in his press conference when he was praising Brad Johnson. In my opinion, this was evident by the poor third down plays, such as the third and long 4 yard check down.

I hate these Harrington debates BTW

But I used to think they were checkdowns and Joey's fault, But after watching Garcia come in and do the same thing I think those were the primary recievers in Mooch's offense.

I am at the point where I will not be sad if Joey stays around for one more year to see if a new system helps, but I also will not cry if he gets let go.

And as for Manning, If He played on this team the past three years he would have been as bad as Joey was, the offense sucked, The recievers dropped balls, the O Line sucked, and the running game was not near as good as Indy's. Manning cracks when there is pressure up front, this O Line cant block Grandmothers with walkers. He would soon turn into Drew Bledsoe, In where as soon as he seen a guy he would drop.

**spikesglaring** · 01-20-2006, 03:17 AM

Homer opinion or not, to even compare Manning to Joey Harrington is the most asinine thing I've heard in quite some time. Sure, Peyton is in a great situation, but he makes every player around him better too. Joey got the shaft with a terrible situation, but even in the most ideal place he would not have been anywhere near as successful as Peyton.

**Serenade Requiem** · 01-20-2006, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by spikesglaring

Homer opinion or not, to even compare Manning to Joey Harrington is the most asinine thing I've heard in quite some time. Sure, Peyton is in a great situation, but he makes every player around him better too. Joey got the shaft with a terrible situation, but even in the most ideal place he would not have been anywhere near as successful as Peyton.

SO sure of something you have never seen.....wow

**on_the_prowl** · 01-20-2006, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Jonesy

I hate these Harrington debates BTW

But I used to think they were checkdowns and Joey's fault, But after watching Garcia come in and do the same thing I think those were the primary recievers in Mooch's offense.

I am at the point where I will not be sad if Joey stays around for one more year to see if a new system helps, but I also will not cry if he gets let go.

And as for Manning, If He played on this team the past three years he would have been as bad as Joey was, the offense sucked, The recievers dropped balls, the O Line sucked, and the running game was not near as good as Indy's. Manning cracks when there is pressure up front, this O Line cant block Grandmothers with walkers. He would soon turn into Drew Bledsoe, In where as soon as he seen a guy he would drop.

If Joey is let go, we need to bring in a GOOD QB. So if stays I dont have a problem with it, and if he goys, whatever. As long as we get a GOOD QB this season I'll be happy.

**Brent** · 01-20-2006, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by spikesglaring

Homer opinion or not, to even compare Manning to Joey Harrington is the most asinine thing I've heard in quite some time. Sure, Peyton is in a great situation, but he makes every player around him better too. Joey got the shaft with a terrible situation, but even in the most ideal place he would not have been anywhere near as successful as Peyton.

I am tired of hearing about Manning and am not even close to being a fan of him. But I concur with the man from Knoxville.

**nwilcox** · 01-20-2006, 10:36 AM

It might be safe to say Peyton Manning is going to be a career playoff bust. He can give you good games in the regular season but when it comes to playoffs dont think about it. The past couple years he has gone into New England and got beat, this year was the year for him because of home field and he still fails. Sounds like Dan Marino, good numbers in the regular season but never to win the big one.

I feel bad saying this right now as well, Tony Dungy what is up with him as well? It reminds me of Tampa Bay. He gets the team to a point and just can not get them over that hump.

**jake** · 01-20-2006, 10:58 AM

This thread was intended to be about Manning's inablility to handle some heat. He has had everything stacked in his favor while Harrington has had the opposite. The first sign of adversity, Manning sells out his teammates. He did the same thing at Tennessee. Detroit would have eaten him alive. Bottom line.