Yahoo: Tressel Lied - Knew Of Gear Scheme Last April

[ROMAD1]

Maybe the surprise is at how much the stars had to align to catch him so blatantly red handed?

Pride, vanity?

OSU's response appears much different from Michigan's. Or is that perception biased because I'm a Michigan homer?

[Casimir]

I'm a little surprised by all the "wow, we never Jim Tressel was like this" talk. Really? He's a football coach at a football factory school. This happens everywhere to everyone. Don't kid yourselves into thinking it doesn't happen at Michigan or Michigan State too. You're trying to corral 80+ kids 24 hours a day who think they're God's gift to the world, that's got to be an impossible job.

I think Tressel is just as win-at-all-costs obsessed as every other coach in major college football. The difference is that not every coach writes books about leadership and God and how morally upstanding they are.

The offensive thing is Ohio State's "punishment" to Tressel. 2 games? Really? If Ohio State has any integrity left, it would dismiss him immediately. The NCAA should hammer them double for that pathetic attempt at "discipline."

I think Tressel should be fired. I don't think there really is much debate about it. Come clean with the info when it crosses your desk, suspend the kids immediately, and move on. But then to cover up the situation and lie about it, that's imply inexcusable. The original act of the players is so much more meek than the cover up by the responsible adult.

I guess I wonder if there is a debate to whether or not he should be fired if it is true that this type of shenanigans goes on everywhere else. If that is the typical culture throughout the sport, at least the big boys, should it be punishable since it seems to be almost acceptable if it is indeed known to go on?

Its just maddening to think that, had this all come out in the open in April Posey and Pryor would've been suspended for 4-5 games in 2010, all likely wins, maybe a loss to Miami. Instead this is going to cause at least a 3 year probation, suspensions to 6 players for 5 games (at least -- I don't think they are out of the woods just yet either), numerous scholarships, and who knows how long to recover from the inevitable downward spiral that this will cause.

[ROMAD1]

I think Tressel should be fired. I don't think there really is much debate about it. Come clean with the info when it crosses your desk, suspend the kids immediately, and move on. But then to cover up the situation and lie about it, that's imply inexcusable. The original act of the players is so much more meek than the cover up by the responsible adult.

I guess I wonder if there is a debate to whether or not he should be fired if it is true that this type of shenanigans goes on everywhere else. If that is the typical culture throughout the sport, at least the big boys, should it be punishable since it seems to be almost acceptable if it is indeed known to go on?

Its just maddening to think that, had this all come out in the open in April Posey and Pryor would've been suspended for 4-5 games in 2010, all likely wins, maybe a loss to Miami. Instead this is going to cause at least a 3 year probation, suspensions to 6 players for 5 games (at least -- I don't think they are out of the woods just yet either), numerous scholarships, and who knows how long to recover from the inevitable downward spiral that this will cause.

In a perfect world..(certainly not likely to happen) the NFL owners would work with the NCAA to have some sort of combined punishment system for kids or coaches who flaunt the rules.

Maybe those who might draft him shouldn't trust Terrell Pryor to avoid drugs and other contraband from the local tattoo parlor hook-up.

[Casimir]

In a perfect world..(certainly not likely to happen) the NFL owners would work with the NCAA to have some sort of combined punishment system for kids or coaches who flaunt the rules.

Pete Carrol disagrees.

Maybe those who might draft him shouldn't trust Terrell Pryor to avoid drugs and other contraband from the local tattoo parlor hook-up.

I'm not so sure Pryor gets drafted.

[JonBenke]

I'm not so sure Pryor gets drafted.

I think he does, as he has shown that he's a five star WR ... and that's not even a joke.

When they did that package, I liked his game ... as a QB, not so much.


Oh, and props for the way you have posted on the subject. Like so many have said, this is nothing new across the board, though the cover-up and lying, well ... that's crossing a line that shouldn't have been crossed at all.

For that, he should be fired.

[Buddha]

Pryor is a first or second round pick.

[ROMAD1]

In an NFL where Mike Vick has a contract as a "playmaking QB"...Pryor (and all other potential sources of jersey sales) probably get a free pass under the boys-will-be-boys exemption to the NFL conduct policy.

[edit: Jersey sales...meant that Pryor jerseys would sell...not that Pryor would buy them...that would be insane]

[pyrotigers]

The main reason Pryor is coming back for his senior year is that scouts had him as a 5th round or later pick as a QB. I agree that he'd almost surely end up going way higher than that after the combine though.

[ROMAD1]

So this story seems to have died down. I guess the NCAA does not care.

[Truth]

So this story seems to have died down. I guess the NCAA does not care.

I'm not sure that's true. Ohio State just "self-reported" the infraction(s). Don't they take a period of time to determine if they will accept that or initiate their own investigation?

[ROMAD1]

Well Mike Lupica just wrote about it. So the George Costanzas of the world will know about it now.

Jim Tressel and Ohio State football prove that winning is what matters, not playing by the rules

[Casimir]

I'm not sure that's true. Ohio State just "self-reported" the infraction(s). Don't they take a period of time to determine if they will accept that or initiate their own investigation?

Ths NCAA has been on campus since the beginning/middle of February. This investigation will probably take longer because of the federal case involvement. I'd rather they take thier time and be thorough rather than pencil whip it like they did with Cam Newton.

[Casimir]

Pryor is a first or second round pick.

Not with his (on field) decision making. Million dollar arm, five cent head.

[Casimir]

Oh, and props for the way you have posted on the subject.

Thanks. I bleed scarlet and gray, but wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong, and I try to be as objective as I can (I'm sure it doesn't always come across that way or that I follow through). There's just no sugar coating this crap sandwich.

[Truth]

Ths NCAA has been on campus since the beginning/middle of February. This investigation will probably take longer because of the federal case involvement. I'd rather they take thier time and be thorough rather than pencil whip it like they did with Cam Newton.

I know the NCAA was invited in but I didn't know if that was to shadow the university's investigation or if they free reign. How will the federal case impede them though? It seems if they had enough information to suspend the players involved they would be equally positioned to deal with Tressel's involvement.

[bluefan75]

I know the NCAA was invited in but I didn't know if that was to shadow the university's investigation or if they free reign. How will the federal case impede them though? It seems if they had enough information to suspend the players involved they would be equally positioned to deal with Tressel's involvement.

The federal case will actually make the NCAA's life a lot easier. The whole reason Michigan's basketball program went through what it did was because the FBI was investigating. They have this magical thing known as subpoena power, which could put everything out in the open.

Of course, just like the FBI's investigation in the Martin case stated several players from several schools were the beneficiaries of his generosity, but Webber was the only one the feds ever did anything about, there could be a snow job the other way in Columbus. But without the feds, there's no hope of the info getting out without someone having an incentive to do so.

[Casimir]

I know the NCAA was invited in but I didn't know if that was to shadow the university's investigation or if they free reign. How will the federal case impede them though? It seems if they had enough information to suspend the players involved they would be equally positioned to deal with Tressel's involvement.

I'm not sure how the timing of facts can play out. I don't know how far the federal investigation has gotten so far. And I'm not sure how much of that information is public knowledge versus how much information is being kept private if they are still working the investigation. Perhaps it is not so much impede as it is delay.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

In an NFL where Mike Vick has a contract as a "playmaking QB"...Pryor (and all other potential sources of jersey sales) probably get a free pass under the boys-will-be-boys exemption to the NFL conduct policy.

Of course he will get a 'free pass'. I doubt any NFL team gives a crap that Pryor sold some stuff and received some services.

[ROMAD1]

Of course he will get a 'free pass'. I doubt any NFL team gives a crap that Pryor sold some stuff and received some services.

Not everybody’s the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever.

Seems like a good quality individual

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Seems like a good quality individual

Professional sports has plenty of guys in it that I wouldn't want my sons to emulate, and it always been this way.

I frankly don't get your overall point. It seems like it bothers you that no NFL team is likely to be bothered by Tyrelle Pryor selling some of his memorabilia and msaying some pretty dumb things.

If so, does the NFL bother you now? Because I don't doubt some guys have been selling personal effects and I know guys have said some dumb things, and it seems to me that this has been the case throughout my life.

[ROMAD1]

Was listening to Steve Czaben on the radio this morning. He's been a defender of Trestle and said basically he cheated because that was what he had to do for the program...it wasn't until he looked at the e-mails from Cicero and saw Cicero's comments that the items that the OSU players were selling were being sold too cheaply really gave him pause.

These guys don't understand the traditions, they are so emotionally and mentally deficient that they don't grasp the importance of shared history.

My editorial comment. You could use a Pryor or these other guys as cannon fodder but I wouldn't put em in leadership positions. They don't have the sense to lead. Why would a player put his neck on the line for Pryor? He's not playing to achieve a shared glory. Its a transactional relationship. I'm cynical about the NFL for embracing the thugs. I was heartened when NONE of his teammates would support Ben Roethlisberger. It is testament to the power of the Steeler's internal cohesion that they were able to get to the SB with such a head case on their team.

[Gehringer_2]

I guess my problem with the whole major revenue sport morass and the NCAA, is that to me, you can't have it both ways. The justification for great universities to even be involved in these activities is purely for the honor, discipline, character development and tradition. Sure you can take these things away and you can still have a very nice minor league sports league, but at that point it has no business being on an American university campus. You either enforce the rules that attempt to maintain and defend the ideals that validate your presence at the institution, or get out.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Was listening to Steve Czaben on the radio this morning. He's been a defender of Trestle and said basically he cheated because that was what he had to do for the program...it wasn't until he looked at the e-mails from Cicero and saw Cicero's comments that the items that the OSU players were selling were being sold too cheaply really gave him pause.

I hate the 'he cheated because he had to' justification. That is just a weak argument, IMO.

These guys don't understand the traditions, they are so emotionally and mentally deficient that they don't grasp the importance of shared history.

'These guys' are 18 to 21 years old. There will always be a percentage of young men you don't value tradition or shared history, if for no other reason they aren't fully mature or grounded yet.

My editorial comment. You could use a Pryor or these other guys as cannon fodder but I wouldn't put em in leadership positions. They don't have the sense to lead. Why would a player put his neck on the line for Pryor? He's not playing to achieve a shared glory. Its a transactional relationship.

The NFL is a series of transactional relationships. Guys put their trust into another player if he can lead them to win today, because they know there might not be a tommorow due to injury or contact situation.

I'm cynical about the NFL for embracing the thugs.

Tyrelle Pryor is a thug?

I was heartened when NONE of his teammates would support Ben Roethlisberger. It is testament to the power of the Steeler's internal cohesion that they were able to get to the SB with such a head case on their team.

OK.

[ROMAD1]

I can only fall back on my formative experience. I was in the military at a young age and the shared tradition/shared glory was driven into me until I ate it and drank it. It may have been silly to an outsider but you were dead if you turned your back on it.

[JonBenke]

Thanks. I bleed scarlet and gray, but wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong, and I try to be as objective as I can (I'm sure it doesn't always come across that way or that I follow through). There's just no sugar coating this crap sandwich.

I totally agree, and anyone who has posted here knows ... I was a huge RichRod supporter, but after awhile, enough is enough! PracticeGate was weak, but there was so much more that, as a Michigan fan, was just enough for me to want him gone. The sad thing is, sooner rather than later, this will all go away. That's weak.

Oh, did anyone see that Kirk Herbstreit had to move his family out of Columbus?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I can only fall back on my formative experience. I was in the military at a young age and the shared tradition/shared glory was driven into me until I ate it and drank it. It may have been silly to an outsider but you were dead if you turned your back on it.

Your experiences aren't reflective of everyone's experiences. Being on a Division I team isn't the same as being in the military either.

[ROMAD1]

Your experiences aren't reflective of everyone's experiences. Being on a Division I team isn't the same as being in the military either.

I have only a few data points of people I know who played college FB. Those indicate that the process of psychological indoctrination are very similar if not more pronounced in the College FB program because of the more obvious unambiguous results (wins and losses). The more elite military units I belonged to had more rigorous processes. Indeed, look up ROMAD and you'll see a fair amount of material on that stuff.

Hey not to offend you but...are you an autopedant or something? Is this compulsive for you?

[sagnam]

I have only a few data points of people I know who played college FB. Those indicate that the process of psychological indoctrination are very similar if not more pronounced in the College FB program because of the more obvious unambiguous results (wins and losses).

The football players I knew in college were the exact opposite. They cared more about the girls, free food, parties, etc (like many of their classmates) than tradition. They wanted to win because of their competitive nature, not tradition. I'm talking about players on a National Championship team.

[ROMAD1]

The football players I knew in college were the exact opposite. They cared more about the girls, free food, parties, etc (like many of their classmates) than tradition. They wanted to win because of their competitive nature, not tradition. I'm talking about players on a National Championship team.

I cared more for those things too. I wasn't interested in the indoctrination process at the time...but it was going on.

[Hongbit]

Can you guys please cut it out! Theres no place for logic in a discussion about college football. Trying to interject some will only lead to frustration. The game itself has stayed the same but very little about what happens off the field makes very much sense anymore.

[ROMAD1]

Can you guys please cut it out! Theres no place for logic in a discussion about college football. Trying to interject some will only lead to frustration. The game itself has stayed the same but very little about what happens off the field makes very much sense anymore.

fair enough

Just don't like seeing those punks devaluing the Michigan/OSU rivalry just because they cheated -- enough to have a 10 year ascendancy in the rivalry -- then not understanding that the gold pants are worth a lot more dope, tattoos, or whatever, than the local guy was giving them.

[Gehringer_2]

The football players I knew in college were the exact opposite. They cared more about the girls, free food, parties, etc (like many of their classmates) than tradition. They wanted to win because of their competitive nature, not tradition. I'm talking about players on a National Championship team.

The question for me is not what the kids do. Biggs is right that the kids are kids. The question that is important here is the attitude of the managing adults with regard to what the kids do and what do they do about it. The travesty is not is Prying trying to game the system for a few bucks. That is just a late adolescent narcissistic misdemeanor. It's the behavior of the University faced with that misdemeanor which is quite unconscionable to me.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I have only a few data points of people I know who played college FB. Those indicate that the process of psychological indoctrination are very similar if not more pronounced in the College FB program because of the more obvious unambiguous results (wins and losses). The more elite military units I belonged to had more rigorous processes. Indeed, look up ROMAD and you'll see a fair amount of material on that stuff.

What few collegiate football players I know viewed at least some, if not most, of the indoctrination process with a cynical eye. I do know of one who was committed to his coach / program fully.

Looking back on it now, most look back on the overall experience fondly, but they aren't nearly as married to traditions as you seem to suggest in your posts on the topic.

Hey not to offend you but...are you an autopedant or something? Is this compulsive for you?

I don't know what autopedant means. I don't think this* is compusive, though I suppose I can't objectively state such a thing definatively.

* I assume the 'this' in your question refers to arguing with your points repeatedly. I argue with them because I think they are overstated to a fair degree and disagree with the premise in general. I don't know if I am any more compusive about arguing with your points than you are obsessive with raising them.

[ROMAD1]

go easy Bigs. I was trying and failing to be funny with the "autopedant" thing.

[Hongbit]

go easy Bigs. I was trying and failing to be funny with the "autopedant" thing.

Those autopedant jokes bring the house down everytime.

[ROMAD1]

Try to keep up. Try reading books to expand your vocabulary.

[Gehringer_2]

Try to keep up. Try reading books to expand your vocabulary.

Speaking of reading books, "go easy" sounds like a LeCarre fan. I'd venture it's a pretty rare expression in the US.

[pyrotigers]

I really don't care if the players place any value at all on the idiotic trinkets they're given by the school, selling them is against the rules, let's focus on that part.

[ROMAD1]

Speaking of reading books, "go easy" sounds like a LeCarre fan. I'd venture it's a pretty rare expression in the US.

isn't that a Rod Allen-ism?

[Gehringer_2]

isn't that a Rod Allen-ism?

IDK Rom, I try to block memory of Rod to the degree possible.