Tom Izzo: His way or the highway

[sportz4life]

I have never seen Tom throw away a game because he was so mad at so many players. But I admire him as a man of his convictions. You play defense at MSU or you don't play, you're a good teamate or you don't play, you meet the academic requirements or you don't play. No one kid is bigger than the team.

Austin Thorton and Joh Kebler play while Nix, Allen and Summers sit.

Painful lesson...for everyone. Kind of like the real world when your boss has expectations.

[FireUpChips]

While I agree to a certain extent with Izzo's consistent approach to discipline, I think he has gone too far this year. I'll admit that I am a UM fan at heart, however I have been a follower of the MSU program for years as I grew up in Saginaw and there have been a few kids that have went the MSU route from Saginaw. My issue is not the discipline that Izzo preaches, it is with the execution of that disipline. Does it need to be that dramatic, does everyone need to be suspended or kicked out of practice, and does Izzo need to go to the media with these issues ? It seems as if Izzo prefers to keep himself at the center of the media attention.

I also think that this may deter potential recruits from the program. Not so much the discipline, but the public discipline that Izzo seems to prefer.

[Edman85]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

While I agree to a certain extent with Izzo's consistent approach to discipline, I think he has gone too far this year. I'll admit that I am a UM fan at heart, however I have been a follower of the MSU program for years as I grew up in Saginaw and there have been a few kids that have went the MSU route from Saginaw. My issue is not the discipline that Izzo preaches, it is with the execution of that disipline. Does it need to be that dramatic, does everyone need to be suspended or kicked out of practice, and does Izzo need to go to the media with these issues ? It seems as if Izzo prefers to keep himself at the center of the media attention.

I also think that this may deter potential recruits from the program. Not so much the discipline, but the public discipline that Izzo seems to prefer.

It hasn't deterred the recruits for 15 years.

[FireUpChips]

Originally Posted by Edman85

It hasn't deterred the recruits for 15 years.

I agree with you, however my point was that in my opinion Izzo has handled team discipline differently this year.

[lionstigersand...]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

While I agree to a certain extent with Izzo's consistent approach to discipline, I think he has gone too far this year. I'll admit that I am a UM fan at heart, however I have been a follower of the MSU program for years as I grew up in Saginaw and there have been a few kids that have went the MSU route from Saginaw. My issue is not the discipline that Izzo preaches, it is with the execution of that disipline. Does it need to be that dramatic, does everyone need to be suspended or kicked out of practice, and does Izzo need to go to the media with these issues ? It seems as if Izzo prefers to keep himself at the center of the media attention.

I also think that this may deter potential recruits from the program. Not so much the discipline, but the public discipline that Izzo seems to prefer.

Mostly BS. Izzo runs an extremely open program, with media coming and going with great frequency. Beat writers and other media personnel have access to players and coaches throughout most of the season. As such, how exactly does one avoid answering questions about why Chris Allen isn't here, or Kalin Lucas is leaving early? Bottom line, it's a byproduct of running a pretty damn open program - sometimes you get the good with the bad.

[SpartanValor]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

While I agree to a certain extent with Izzo's consistent approach to discipline, I think he has gone too far this year. I'll admit that I am a UM fan at heart, however I have been a follower of the MSU program for years as I grew up in Saginaw and there have been a few kids that have went the MSU route from Saginaw. My issue is not the discipline that Izzo preaches, it is with the execution of that disipline. Does it need to be that dramatic, does everyone need to be suspended or kicked out of practice, and does Izzo need to go to the media with these issues ? It seems as if Izzo prefers to keep himself at the center of the media attention.

I also think that this may deter potential recruits from the program. Not so much the discipline, but the public discipline that Izzo seems to prefer.

wtf, mate. You think he's disciplining kids so he can get more of the spotlight? Seriously? You discipline kids when they F up, its not a matter of "going too far". That doesn't even make any sense.

Izzo doesn't go to the media, the media is at every practice. Read Joe Rexrode at the LSJ: Izzo has to limit what they print, saying they can have extra access if they don't print certain stuff (Like the Trannon punch to MoJo). To think he's doing this for attention, thats just crazy to me.

Losing Chris Allen probably cost us the game last night, but I'm not blaming Izzo for that, thats for sure.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

While I agree to a certain extent with Izzo's consistent approach to discipline, I think he has gone too far this year. I'll admit that I am a UM fan at heart, however I have been a follower of the MSU program for years as I grew up in Saginaw and there have been a few kids that have went the MSU route from Saginaw. My issue is not the discipline that Izzo preaches, it is with the execution of that disipline. Does it need to be that dramatic, does everyone need to be suspended or kicked out of practice, and does Izzo need to go to the media with these issues ? It seems as if Izzo prefers to keep himself at the center of the media attention.

I also think that this may deter potential recruits from the program. Not so much the discipline, but the public discipline that Izzo seems to prefer.

5th rated recruiting class in America for 2010 and off to a great start for 2011. Deter..deter what??

[socaltiger]

I could not agree more with Izzo's decisions. I hope Lucas, Summers, Lucious and Allen all go pro next year..in China with Marbury.These guys were spoiled by their ( and Suttons and Waltons) success last year and have been playing with a sense of entitlement all year. Plus they really are not that good.

[sportz4life]

My sources tell me Izzo is completely disgusted with Summers and Durrell will have to do some fence mending to play at MSU next season, it's an effort issue. Should be intersting how this plays out, if Summers does not return it, enhances the chances for Ziegler to committ.

[SpartanValor]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

5th rated recruiting class in America for 2010 and off to a great start for 2011. Deter..deter what??

Yeah, I think kids care more about going to a final four every four years.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by SpartanValor

Yeah, I think kids care more about going to a final four every four years.

Want to get better, get treated lilke a man, actually go to school, play for a coach that keeps his word and treats his stars the same as his walk ons..come to MSU..Parents often like this philosophy. somehow reminds me of an old football coach at UM who did well.

[FireUpChips]

No surprise on the responses here, I know you guys are Spartan fans and Izzo supporters. I posted an opinion that I feel strongly about and you guys feel strongly about your opinions, no issues with that.

Don't forget that Izzo admitted that he handled the Kalin Lucas suspension improperly, in terms of communication.

4 suspensions of players in one year (25% of the team), to me, seems excessive (required or not). Is there more to this than we are privy to ? Smoke=fire kind of thing.

I'll concede that my comment in regards to spotlight, is probably a long shot.

[sportz4life]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

No surprise on the responses here, I know you guys are Spartan fans and Izzo supporters. I posted an opinion that I feel strongly about and you guys feel strongly about your opinions, no issues with that.

Don't forget that Izzo admitted that he handled the Kalin Lucas suspension improperly, in terms of communication.

4 suspensions of players in one year (25% of the team), to me, seems excessive (required or not). Is there more to this than we are privy to ? Smoke=fire kind of thing.

I'll concede that my comment in regards to spotlight, is probably a long shot.

Yeah..Izzo has a track record of problems and lack of control..look Shannon Brown and Zach Randolph did not start as freshman for MSU. This stuff isn't new..either you grasp how he runs the program and accept it or you don't.

I know of no other coach who would have hasdAllen, Summers and Nix benched for the 2nd half..it takes guts to be a man of your word and not compromise your beliefs..it's why he's a legend. You take the good with the bad.

[lionstigersand...]

Originally Posted by sportz4life

Yeah..Izzo has a track record of problems and lack of control..look Shannon Brown and Zach Randolph did not start as freshman for MSU. This stuff isn't new..either you grasp how he runs the program and accept it or you don't.

I know of no other coach who would have hasdAllen, Summers and Nix benched for the 2nd half..it takes guts to be a man of your word and not compromise your beliefs..it's why he's a legend. You take the good with the bad.

Well, Nix got the bench because he simply couldn't handle Iverson's length.

Originally Posted by fireupchip

No surprise on the responses here, I know you guys are Spartan fans and Izzo supporters. I posted an opinion that I feel strongly about and you guys feel strongly about your opinions, no issues with that

The problem with a couple of your earlier stated opinions is that they simply aren't supported by much (any?) evidence.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

No surprise on the responses here, I know you guys are Spartan fans and Izzo supporters. I posted an opinion that I feel strongly about and you guys feel strongly about your opinions, no issues with that.

I am not an MSU fan or Izzo supporter per se, and I disagreed with your take upon reading it.

So to suggest people disagreed with you at least in part b/c they are MSU fans is not necessarily accurate.

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

Don't forget that Izzo admitted that he handled the Kalin Lucas suspension improperly, in terms of communication.

Which demonstrates Izzo is capable of making a mistake and capable of admitting it.

I don't understand how that addresses or supports you previous claims that Izzo seeks attention.

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

4 suspensions of players in one year (25% of the team), to me, seems excessive (required or not).

The number of players suspended alone doesn't demonstrate anything to me in terms of severity or excessiveness.

For me, a better argument, as it pertains to punishing excessively, is to state what the player(s) did wrong, and why you think the penalty was too severe.

I also have to ask - the "(required or not)" note at the end of that sentence suggests or implies that you think it becomes excessive to suspend the 3rd or 4th player, whether they are deserving of suspension or not. Was that what you intended?

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

Is there more to this than we are privy to ? Smoke=fire kind of thing.

I don't understand quite what this question is asking. I am sure there are things about the program we don't know nor are privy to, but I don't think that is your question.

Are you wondering if there is a displine issue or some hidden transgressions we do not know about?

[FireUpChips]

Originally Posted by Mr. Bigglesworth

I am not an MSU fan or Izzo supporter per se, and I disagreed with your take upon reading it.

So to suggest people disagreed with you at least in part b/c they are MSU fans is not necessarily accurate.



Which demonstrates Izzo is capable of making a mistake and capable of admitting it.

I don't understand how that addresses or supports you previous claims that Izzo seeks attention.



The number of players suspended alone doesn't demonstrate anything to me in terms of severity or excessiveness.

For me, a better argument, as it pertains to punishing excessively, is to state what the player(s) did wrong, and why you think the penalty was too severe.

I also have to ask - the "(required or not)" note at the end of that sentence suggests or implies that you think it becomes excessive to suspend the 3rd or 4th player, whether they are deserving of suspension or not. Was that what you intended?



I don't understand quite what this question is asking. I am sure there are things about the program we don't know nor are privy to, but I don't think that is your question.

Are you wondering if there is a displine issue or some hidden transgressions we do not know about?

You have taken the time to respond pretty thoroughly but did not take the time to read my posts thoroughly. I am not getting into it with you Biggs, I don't post often but I do read this board very often and from that I know how you love to pick apart every little thing someone writes and debate for what can seem like a endless loop.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

You have taken the time to respond pretty thoroughly but did not take the time to read my posts thoroughly.

Well, then, please explain it to me.

I think you are of the opinion that Izzo has disciplined too many players and/or is too harsh. I simply don't understand what you are basing that belief on.

I also don't understand your claim that this is some attempt for Izzo to get attention.

Originally Posted by FireUpChips

I am not getting into it with you Biggs, I don't post often but I do read this board very often and from that I know how you love to pick apart every little thing someone writes and debate for what can seem like a endless loop.

I pick things apart, as you put it, so that I can better understand people's position(s) or what they base their opinion on. If you don't wish to discuss that, or if you think it is tedious, that is fine. It seems to me that you really aren't basing your opinion on this topic on anything other than your gut feel, which is fine as well.