Great Arms race at MSU...

THECATMAC · #1 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 07:39 AM

Keith Nichols or Kirk Cousins? I read these two are neck and neck. Anybody got info on these guys?

Bubba · #2 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THECATMAC

Keith Nichols or Kirk Cousins? I read these two are neck and neck. Anybody got info on these guys?

My take... Nichol (no 's') was one of the top QB prospects in the country 3 yrs ago. He ended up at Oklahoma and was beaten out at the end of camp by Heisman Trophy winner, Sam Bradford. I think he is a true talent and he will end up pulling away. His ability to run and pass will make him a true threat in the big ten. However, Cousins (with an 's') made great strides last season.

I think that whoever wins out will have truly earned it and put us in a great situation to win those close games. Also, whoever doesn't win, will end up transferring elsewhere at the end of the season. Personally, I would like to see both of them play a lot in the first four games of the season. I think that Nichol, leaving us high and dry a few yrs back, has to regain the trust of his teammates and Cousins probably has the upper hand with regards to the team, but when its all said and done, the players will want the best option to play QB.

Typically, I would be worried about one of them transferring at the end of the year, but with Maxwell and Boisture coming in, this is the best our quarterback position has been in decades.

I am excited to see how it plays out.

THECATMAC · #3 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 03:24 PM

Would be nice to see both the first few games if it's not clear who should be #1. With Penn State looking to be the powerhouse this season and Ohio State right there also, I only see MSU ending up in the middle of the pack.

Bubba · #4 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THECATMAC

Would be nice to see both the first few games if it's not clear who should be #1. With Penn State looking to be the powerhouse this season and Ohio State right there also, I only see MSU ending up in the middle of the pack.

We don't play Ohio State. Our tough games this year are @ ND, home vs. Penn State and at Illinois, IMHO. I think playing UM at home will help in our victory over them. I see us 10-2. Want to win at Wisconsin bad!!!

lionstigersand... · #5 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba

My take... Nichol (no 's') was one of the top QB prospects in the country 3 yrs ago. He ended up at Oklahoma and was beaten out at the end of camp by Heisman Trophy winner, Sam Bradford. I think he is a true talent and he will end up pulling away. His ability to run and pass will make him a true threat in the big ten. However, Cousins (with an 's') made great strides last season.

I think that whoever wins out will have truly earned it and put us in a great situation to win those close games. Also, whoever doesn't win, will end up transferring elsewhere at the end of the season. Personally, I would like to see both of them play a lot in the first four games of the season. I think that Nichol, leaving us high and dry a few yrs back, has to regain the trust of his teammates and Cousins probably has the upper hand with regards to the team, but when its all said and done, the players will want the best option to play QB.

Typically, I would be worried about one of them transferring at the end of the year, but with Maxwell and Boisture coming in, this is the best our quarterback position has been in decades.

I am excited to see how it plays out.

The players really seem to genuinely like Kirk Cousins quite a bit. I'm not saying they don't care for Nichol by any stretch, but I've heard that there's just an extra pull for Kirk (which is understandable, as by all accounts he really is just a quality young man).

That said, I tend to lean where you're at with regards to the overall competition. Nichol just has too many tools in the long run...Big arm, good feet, +speed - assuming he can mesh with the offense, his ceiling is pretty high. That said, Kirk Cousins really was a pretty underrated recruit coming out of Holland Christian (the fact that he wasn't able to participate in any summer camps following his junior year really hindered his evaluation status). His accuracy is top notch, his arm is underrated, and he's not exactly immobile, either. Either way, I think MSU's in a nice spot at the QB position and should be for a number of years now.

Tressel · #6 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 07:10 PM

10-2? really?

tys-spikes84 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THECATMAC

Keith Nichols or Kirk Cousins? I read these two are neck and neck. Anybody got info on these guys?

Yes, I can tell you that both are very, very bad. Also, they are both cokeheads.

Bubba · #8 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tressel

10-2? really?

That's what I wrote.

Tressel · #9 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 07:46 PM

haha, ok homer, calm down

SpartanValor · #10 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 08:40 PM

Tressel is no longer god?

lionstigersand... · #11 (**permalink**) 07-11-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tressel

10-2? really?

10-2 is probably the ceiling, but it's not wholly off the statistical reservation (just tucked this side of - 'off your rocker'). Just not a very daunting slate for MSU this year. Frankly, I don't look at any game on that schedule and say - that one's a loss (last year I said that about vsOSU and @PSU).

The swing games are:

@ND
@UW
@UI
and vs PSU (Who I think takes a slight step back from last year)
and maybe @UMinn

I haven't done enough research yet for my season preview, but my initial gut says we lose 3 of those games. Imo, best case says we win 3, worst case we drop 4. Chances are good we drop another along the way - next best probability being vs Iowa, imo.

The Big Ten looks pretty mediocre top to bottom, for my money. It's two best teams both suffered some fairly significant attrition at key spots (skill positions and in the trenches). Not a terrible season to break in a new quarterback, or two...

Hongbit · #12 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 01:53 AM

I predict that Nichol will win the job to start the year but it'll be Cousins who ends the season as the Motor City Bowl MVP.

The Truman Show · #13 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 03:19 AM

How is 10-2 a crazy prediction for a team that went 9-3 last year and replaces OSU and Cal with Minnesota and Montana St? MSU's schedule is extremely weak this year.

vannzee · #14 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

How is 10-2 a crazy prediction for a team that went 9-3 last year and replaces OSU and Cal with Minnesota and Montana St? MSU's schedule is extremely weak this year.

They dont have Ringer anymore and he was a HUGE workhorse for them.

Also, say what you want about U of M, but a big in state rival game like that, IMO, is always a possible swing game.

Bubba · #15 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vannzee

They dont have Ringer anymore and he was a HUGE workhorse for them.

Also, say what you want about U of M, but a big in state rival game like that, IMO, is always a possible swing game.

I agree. Ringer was huge. However, looking around the league, every team worth a damn lost their best RB. Hill left Wisc like a dummy. Wells left OSU, Greene graduated from Iowa (and their replacement is now hurt). I am more pumped with MSU's Defense. They have a lot of experience coming back. I just look at their schedule, look at the QB situation as an upgrade for the fact that the QBs are more talented than Hoyer, imo, and the WR's have more experience in the offense as well.

10-2 is not a stretch at all. Just happy we don't have to defend Best week 1 again! And yes, our schedule is weak.

lionstigersand... · #16 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hongbit

I predict that Nichol will win the job to start the year but it'll be Cousins who ends the season as the Motor City Bowl MVP.

Not unrealistic by any means, although I'd probably go the other way. As in, both share time early with Cousins emerging as the starter for the B10 season, with Nichol ending the campaign and coming out as Alamo Bowl MVP!

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanzee

They dont have Ringer anymore and he was a HUGE workhorse for them.

Also, say what you want about U of M, but a big in state rival game like that, IMO, is always a possible swing game.

On Ringer...Frankly his use last season would be one of my criticisms of Dantonio and Treadwell (he was an absolute shadow of himself the last 3 or 4 weeks of the season). Bottom line, if the backs behind him were that ineffective - and one of Larry Caper or Edwin Baker doesn't set the world on fire early - then we're in trouble. But I've seen enough of Andre Anderson to believe that he SHOULD be a more than capable back, and that some combination should be effective for MSU.

No question that UM is a rivalry game, but that team just has to come soooo far to be a game that I'd look at as a serious potential loss. Last years game in A^2 simply wasn't anywhere near as close as the score indicated, and MSU really had its way on both lines/sides of the ball. Don't get me wrong, MSU is far from the conference's elite and shouldn't take ANY team for granted (including CMU and WMU this year), but Michigan wasn't exactly a stone's throw from the conference's cellar and is pinning an awful lot on some shaky suppositions, imo.

The Truman Show · #17 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vannzee

They dont have Ringer anymore and he was a HUGE workhorse for them.

Also, say what you want about U of M, but a big in state rival game like that, IMO, is always a possible swing game.

Ok fine, and maybe they won't go 10-2, but I don't think there's anything completely unrealistic about it. Their defense will be way better, and there's a ton of a talent coming in at RB, so it's easy to imagine that someone will step up and fill the void adequately enough. And, again, their schedule is brutally easy.

lionstigersand... · #18 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Ok fine, and maybe they won't go 10-2, but I don't think there's anything completely unrealistic about it. Their defense will be way better, and there's a ton of a talent coming in at RB, so it's easy to imagine that someone will step up and fill the void adequately enough. And, again, their schedule is brutally easy.

10-2 is not realistic, imo. It's not certifiable...But it's not realistic.

The Truman Show · #19 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionstigersand...

10-2 is not realistic, imo. It's not certifiable...But it's not realistic.

Yeah, I'm still failing to see how the team can be better than it's 9-3 incarnation, and drop the 2 toughest games from that schedule, and then have 10-2 be seen as unrealistic. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

lionstigersand... · #20 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Truman Show

Yeah, I'm still failing to see how the team can be better than it's 9-3 incarnation, and drop the 2 toughest games from that schedule, and then have 10-2 be seen as unrealistic. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

It was a very shaky 9-3 for starters. Statistically we were a pretty average club (no glaring weaknesses, no glaring strengths), with a positive turnover margin. In other words, we caught some breaks. Won a couple close games (Iowa and Wisconsin - that both could have easily went the other direction), games that in the past we often found a way to lose. Now ultimately the team deserves credit for making the necessary plays to come out victorious in those games, but does anyone honestly think that we were in a class above Iowa last season? All that game really showed me is that Kirk Ferentz is about as disgustingly overrated as it gets.

Tressel · #21 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 07:07 PM

right now I'd say 8-4, but it might change....

JonBenke · #22 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lionstigersand...

No question that UM is a rivalry game, but that team just has to come soooo far to be a game that I'd look at as a serious potential loss. Last years game in A^2 simply wasn't anywhere near as close as the score indicated, and MSU really had its way on both lines/sides of the ball. Don't get me wrong, MSU is far from the conference's elite and shouldn't take ANY team for granted (including CMU and WMU this year), but Michigan wasn't exactly a stone's throw from the conference's cellar and is pinning an awful lot on some shaky suppositions, imo.

Michigan is a very unpredictable team right now, it's damn near impossible to predict on how they'll play against ANYONE, shakey suppositions or not.

Too many questions, and too much to argue/debate till this team actually plays a couple of games.

Ringer will be greatly missed, but unlike Ohio State, who I witnessed their play without Beanie Wells, I'll wait on MSU without Ringer.

Tressel · #23 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonBenke

Michigan is a very unpredictable team right now, it's damn near impossible to predict on how they'll play against ANYONE, shakey suppositions or not.

Too many questions, and too much to argue/debate till this team actually plays a couple of games.

Ringer will be greatly missed, but unlike Ohio State, who I witnessed their play without Beanie Wells, I'll wait on MSU without Ringer.

you can guarantee RichardRod going 0-2 against tOSU

JonBenke · #24 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tressel

you can guarantee RichardRod going 0-2 against tOSU

99.99% is not a guarantee;)

Honestly, and I know how people here love to bash UM and DickRod, but no one has a clue of the kind of team they could have... That could be scary for UM fans -- I will agree, but it could also be scary for other teams, especially if things click, and Greg Robinson makes a defensive difference!