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"Last team standing" by Jason Stark... [Archive] - MotownSports.com Message Board

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cruzer1
04-01-2007, 07:46 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview07/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2819259

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2007/0329/tigers_ws_skirmish.jpg

Defending AL champs are hungry for more

Before we contemplate what this year is going to mean in the life of the Detroit Tigers, we need to clear up what last year meant.

We need to clear it up because so many people got it so wrong.

This team was not some kind of cute little George Mason fairy tale. It wasn't Boise State. It wasn't the '93 Phillies.

This was not some once-in-a-millennium, magical run by a team playing over its helmets for one enchanted season.

No, sir. This team isn't going to climb out of its 2006 bubble now and go back to being what the Detroit Tigers used to be. Sorry. We hate to break it to you, if you're somebody who thought like that.

But last year, friends, was just the beginning. And the rest of the American League knows it, too.


"Enchanted?" laughed Twins GM Terry Ryan. "No, they weren't enchanted, whatever that means. That's a team that doesn't have any question marks. They don't have any holes. And I don't know that you can do any better than that."

"They're loaded," said Indians outfielder David Dellucci. "They're a fantasy baseball team."

For 12 years, the Tigers were an afterthought, a joke, a 119-loss season waiting to happen. But guess what was going on while you were busy listening to all of us baseball geniuses debating the state of the Red Sox and Yankees?

The Detroit Tigers built themselves a superpower. That's what.

Only a week ago, we were asking Indians GM Mark Shapiro about the possibility that his team could become this year's Tigers. He found that question kind of amusing.

"The biggest problem we'd have in being this year's Tigers," Shapiro replied, pithily, "is beating this year's Tigers.

"If they're healthy, and there are no unforeseen bumps in the road," Shapiro said, "they're the best team in the American League. They're the best team in baseball. I feel completely comfortable saying that."

Well, if he does, then we do, too. So we'll say it.

The Tigers are going to win the World Series. This year, they're going to get it right.

This October, they won't lead anybody's league in E-1's. This October, their dreams aren't going to get blown up by any 5-foot-8 shortstops, by any slips or slides on soggy grass, by any pitchers who had won one game in two months.

This October, the Tigers are going to finish what they started last year. Oh, they may have had themselves a magical season, all right. But we don't see any expiration date on their magic kit.

"For the first time in my career with the Detroit Tigers, we have a target on our back," said third baseman Brandon Inge, "instead of being dusted off everyone's shoulders, like, 'All right, we've got Detroit. Easy three. Let's take them and get out of here.' It's a better feeling. You play for that respect, and that's how you get it. So now let's find out what kind of team we really are."

And they will, too. This year is the test. This is the point, for any team, when it finds out how good it is. So the Tigers will find out there is a reason that only one team in the past three decades lost a World Series one year, then came back to win it the next.

That team was the 1988-89 Oakland A's, a team that endured a shocking loss to the Dodgers in its first World Series journey, then squashed the Giants in four games the next time around. And was back to its third straight World Series the following year.

Well, it's funny we should mention those A's, because an AL scout said this spring that's exactly what the 2007 Tigers remind him of -- a team that may have lost the World Series, but a team that's eminently capable of showing up in the next World Series. And the next one after that.

The Tigers wouldn't be the first team we have thought that about, of course. And 30 years of history tells us it's never as easy the second time around. But this group seems remarkably aware of that -- possibly because its manager has been pounding all of them over the head with that message since the day they showed up under the palm trees.

You think there is any chance -- any -- that Jim Leyland would let this team relax, or coast, or spend the next six months reminiscing about how cool last year was?

"There ain't no way," the manager said, "that's gonna happen."

What Leyland has been sermonizing about, in that lovable way of his, is one of his favorite concepts: Don't forget about what you did. Just stuff it in the top drawer of your memory bank and take it out some other time -- like maybe the year 2088.

"What he said was, 'Last year was last year, and this year is this year,' " said this team's Opening-Day starter, and emerging ace, Jeremy Bonderman. "And that's true. Nobody remembers yesterday. Everybody remembers today. He just wanted to make sure we all didn't get caught up in what we did last year."

But Leyland also delivers that message in a way that lets these men know -- that lets the world know -- he understands exactly how far they traveled last year.

"I said when I took this job," he said, "that we had good players. We just didn't have a good team."

Now, however, they've crossed that threshold. They've arrived at a place only the best teams get to visit -- a place where confidence, talent and universal respect collide.

In fact -- and this is another scary development for the rest of the American League -- they have more good players than they had last year. The only guy who departed was left-handed reliever Jamie Walker. But they added one of the biggest offensive difference-makers in the sport, Gary Sheffield. Pretty good upgrade.


Try to find an area where this team has serious issues, at least on paper. Good luck.

Lineup: Bet you didn't know these guys scored more runs than the Red Sox and outhomered the Indians last year -- and now they've got their best October hitter, Sean Casey, for a full season, and they've plugged Sheffield into the No. 3 hole. And remember, they were so deep last year, their No. 9 hitter, Inge, missed leading the team in homers by one. "With our lineup, one through nine, I honestly feel there are no breaks in there," Inge said.

Rotation: You always wonder about staffs that had to pitch that extra month the year before. This team already has to cover for the loss of Kenny Rogers for at least half a season. So if a Justin Verlander or Jeremy Bonderman were to go down, you could find us backpedaling on this whole column. But this is still a deep group, thanks to the return of Mike Maroth, who missed half of last season after elbow surgery. And last June's No. 1 pick, future dominator Andrew Miller, could show up any minute, especially now that Rogers has created an ace-ian kind of vacancy. So for now, assuming the rest of these guys stay healthy, it's still tough to work up any serious trepidation about a rotation that led the big leagues in ERA and shutouts."Our starting staff" said Bonderman, "is almost like the Braves used to be."

Bullpen: As fun experiences go, facing this bullpen is right up there with, say, an appendectomy. From Jose Mesa to Wilfredo Ledezma to Joel Zumaya to Fernando Rodney, it's a nonstop radar-gun fest. Then Todd Jones marches in and carves you up with his cutter. Opponents hit only .242 against the whole bullpen last year -- meaning you had a better chance of getting a hit off Roy Oswalt, Curt Schilling or John Smoltz than you did against these smokeballers. "When it's coming in at 89 (mph) from one of those guys," quipped Blue Jays masher Vernon Wells, "it's an off-speed pitch."

The Manager: There might not be another locker room in the sport -- maybe in any pro sport -- where more players go out of their way to pay homage to the guy running the show than they do in this one. "He's awesome, man," said Bonderman, in answer to a basic question about whether Leyland has done or said anything different this year. "He can lighten you up in a hurry. But he'll jump on you when he has to, too."

The Farm System: Leyland admits he's more concerned this year than he was last year that, if the Tigers need help from their system, there isn't quite as much there. "I mean, we just can't reach down to the minor leagues and grab a few more Zumayas and Verlanders," he said. But other teams still rave about the Tigers' prospects. Even when you get past Miller, we could name quite a few teams who would consider Jair Jurrjens their best pitching prospect. And outfielder Cameron Maybin is on everybody's list of the top-10 phenoms in the game. "The one thing you have to do [to guard against falling back to the pack]," said GM Dave Dombrowski, "is, you've got to keep the talent coming."

Chemistry: There aren't many stories like this one. A group of players loses together for year after stinking year. Even loses 119 games one of those years. Then nearly a dozen of the same guys are still around to see the same team go to a World Series. But it happened in Detroit. And the transformation from flops to champs glued this cast together more powerfully than just about any other team you'll run across. "I've been around a lot of guys that will do extra because they're free agents, because they want to get paid," Jones said. "But I've never been around guys who want to do it because the other 24 are watching them, and [they] know what it took to get to the World Series last year. ... We care about each other, and that's a great place to be."

No Fear-Of-Yanks-And-Sox Disease: It's easy to have an inferiority complex when you play in the same league as those Yankees and Red Sox conglomerates. But if this team was so intimidated, how did it manage to wipe out the Yankees three games in a row last October after losing the opener of their LDS? "I remember I said, 'I want to play against the Yankees,' " said shortstop Carlos Guillen. "Once we won [Game 2]," said Bonderman, "we looked at them, and it was like, 'You've got to prove you can beat us.' ... We don't fear anybody. We respect everyone, but we show no fear."

October Inspiration: If the only thing worse than not getting to the World Series is losing the World Series, the Tigers could be one dangerous team this year. "I don't care about [just] getting there," said Inge. "Yeah, it's an honor to be there. And yeah, we deserved to be there. But to go there and not win, it just really, really left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't like it one bit. I know we can win. So there's a huge sense of unfinished business."

Now obviously, if the Tigers overload the trainer's room, all of this could change, especially in a division as treacherous as the AL Central. And there are a lot of key players here who probably know their health-insurance policy numbers by heart (Guillen, Magglio Ordonez, Ivan Rodriguez, Placido Polanco in particular).

So there will be many obstacles on the obstacle course. But this team seems to have caught on to that, too.

"I just wish people wouldn't just chalk up what guys did last year and throw in Sheffield and say, 'Well, that's it,' " Jones warned. "That's the hard part that people don't understand. You've got to get excited about the journey. You can't worry about the ending. You've still got to play the games out. And when you focus on the numbers, it's hard to concentrate on the journey."

But no journey can match last year's journey. So if the team on the field looks anything like the team on the paper over the next six months, we bet you won't hear words like "cute" or "magical" or "enchanted" to describe the Detroit Tigers anymore.

"Last year, I think everybody was really happy for us," Jones said. "That will be the difference. Everyone in baseball was pulling for us the first six weeks of the year, because they all figured we'd get over .500 and fade, and it would be a nice little cuddly story.

"But now," Jones chuckled, "they all want to beat our butts."

Jayson Stark is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

TonyJM
04-01-2007, 08:17 AM
Great read...I don't know whether I buy into it 100%, but Stark is always an entertaining read. It's nice when you can get good writers to write about your club.


-Tony

chasfh
04-01-2007, 08:37 AM
I agree -- this is a cute read and not much more. Jayson Stark's trademark, besides wacky inconsequential statistical "analysis", is going out on a very thin limb.

One of the nice things about this off-season, though, is reading articles just like this that regard us as a powerhouse. It's so refreshing after years of mordant articles questioning our very existence. I like it.

TonyJM
04-01-2007, 08:48 AM
I agree -- this is a cute read and not much more. Jayson Stark's trademark, besides wacky inconsequential statistical "analysis", is going out on a very thin limb.


Right - his stuff reminds me a lot of Mitch Album's before Album sort of became a caricature of himself. I really like the Stark-Neyer combo ESPN has. I wish they had kept Sickels, but in general, I think they still do a great job with baseball.


-Tony

RobSk
04-01-2007, 09:00 AM
I'd thought Stark was a little smarter than this. I think the Tigers are a contender and all, but to cite Sean Casey's presence as a significant reason why....That's kinda weird.

Rob

Oblong
04-01-2007, 09:35 AM
That team was the 1988-89 Oakland A's

Toot!

Before the world series I kept bringing up the 1988 A's in a fearful tone.

jackson_cannery
04-01-2007, 09:40 AM
"The biggest problem we'd have in being this year's Tigers," Shapiro replied, pithily, "is beating this year's Tigers.

swimer200
04-01-2007, 10:41 AM
The interesting thing is, I was watching ESPN and now reading Stark, they both mentioned that Casey was going to be a big hitter for them. I just found that interesting

bleacherguy
04-01-2007, 10:43 AM
Good read.

thewave84
04-01-2007, 10:56 AM
I wish this were true but he sort of lost me with the Casey reference. Once I read that I expected a "plus, this year they'll have Neifi Perez for a whole season."

tigerkid23
04-01-2007, 10:57 AM
The interesting thing is, I was watching ESPN and now reading Stark, they both mentioned that Casey was going to be a big hitter for them. I just found that interesting

If you look at batting average, I'd imagine he'd be pretty solid. He won't hit for much power and he's not a big walk guy. Not to mention, he is pretty prone to injuries.

tiger337
04-01-2007, 11:16 AM
I wish this were true but he sort of lost me with the Casey reference. "

He lost me there too. He may end up helping the team more than I think but listing him as a key contributor ruined a column that got off to a good start.

jackson_cannery
04-01-2007, 11:52 AM
He lost me there too. He may end up helping the team more than I think but listing him as a key contributor ruined a column that got off to a good start.

I don't know why you guys all hate Casey, but he is going to be big this year. Quote all the stats you want, but Dombrowski isn't stupid, and neither is Leyland, and it's because of them that Casey is on this team and in the starting lineup.

Write this down, quote me, whatever. You will all be glad Casey was on this team by the end of the year.

tiger337
04-01-2007, 12:12 PM
Quote all the stats you want, but Dombrowski isn't stupid, and neither is Leyland, and it's because of them that Casey is on this team and in the starting lineup.

.
Does this mean that Perez is going to have a good year too?

jackson_cannery
04-01-2007, 12:15 PM
Does this mean that Perez is going to have a good year too?

Perez doesn't have a career .300 average.

edit: he's also not starting.

Oblong
04-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I think it'd be neat if he grounds out to LF again.

estrepe1
04-01-2007, 12:25 PM
I agree -- this is a cute read and not much more. Jayson Stark's trademark, besides wacky inconsequential statistical "analysis", is going out on a very thin limb.

One of the nice things about this off-season, though, is reading articles just like this that regard us as a powerhouse. It's so refreshing after years of mordant articles questioning our very existence. I like it.

True. I don't like being the pick to win because it typically goes the other way.

But the fact that someone can say this and no one chuckles to themself is a nice feeling.

estrepe1
04-01-2007, 12:28 PM
I don't know why you guys all hate Casey, but he is going to be big this year. Quote all the stats you want, but Dombrowski isn't stupid, and neither is Leyland, and it's because of them that Casey is on this team and in the starting lineup.

Write this down, quote me, whatever. You will all be glad Casey was on this team by the end of the year.


I think Casey IF HEALTHY will be better than he was with the Tigers last season. I am not sure he if can hit at a level that would make me glad he is on the Tigers.... because I expect a lot out of first baseman.

tiger337
04-01-2007, 12:43 PM
Perez doesn't have a career .300 average.



I don't know if Casey will bat .300 this year. I hope does but he will have to do more than bat .300 in order for me to say that I'm happy he's the Tigers starting first baseman. I'm predicting he'll bat .282/.348/.406.

tiger337
04-01-2007, 12:46 PM
But the fact that someone can say this and no one chuckles to themself is a nice feeling.

Yes, that has been one of the best parts of this spring. It's fun hearing the Tigers talked about as a real contender this year. This is the way it was back in the 80s most years. They weren't always picked to win but they were usually part of the discussion.

FloridaTigers
04-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Interesting read and comparison to the A's of the late 80's. I wouldn't mind three consecutive WS trips.

DaBishop
04-01-2007, 01:22 PM
solid article I though. And while I understand the commentary on here about his mentioning Casey, I think in the long run(despite the fact that Shelton's torrid start I think had a great deal to do with the success of this team and wouldn't have traded it for a more consistent season from him in return) Casey's consistency will hopefully do a lot to remove any holes from the line-up the way Shelton was for quite a while.

I also don't really know how thin of a limb it is to go out on saying that the Tigers are going to win the World Series...seems to me like it's a pretty solid thick branch.

caseyo4
04-01-2007, 01:54 PM
Why did the Casey part throw people off? All it says was he was our best hitter in October, which he was. It doesn't say he's our MVP, or are most important asset, it just says he will help...

monkeytargets37
04-01-2007, 01:58 PM
Stark really went out of his way to jinx us...

thewave84
04-01-2007, 02:02 PM
Why did the Casey part throw people off? All it says was he was our best hitter in October, which he was. It doesn't say he's our MVP, or are most important asset, it just says he will help...

Look, I'm not saying Casey is a horrible player, but as a 1B he isn't any better than replacement level. For a team like the Tigers he is useful because he fills a gap, but he isn't a difference-maker that is going to propel them to the playoffs or World Series. It was funny because Stark is making this bold statement that the Tigers are a new powerhouse but the first player he mentions is Sean Casey.

tiger337
04-01-2007, 02:44 PM
Look, I'm not saying Casey is a horrible player, but as a 1B he isn't any better than replacement level. For a team like the Tigers he is useful because he fills a gap, but he isn't a difference-maker that is going to propel them to the playoffs or World Series. It was funny because Stark is making this bold statement that the Tigers are a new powerhouse but the first player he mentions is Sean Casey.

This is how I saw it as well.

Tramfan
04-01-2007, 02:45 PM
I took his article to mean that biggest improvements the Tigers have made to their lineup going into this season is the additions of Sheffield and having a guy whose proven he can hit at the profressional level over a career hitting in the seventh spot. It certainly not hard for me to agree with his assertion. I agree with Jackson, if Casey stays healthy he'll be highly valuable to our lineup especially since he hits towards the bottom of the lineup.

cruscott35
04-01-2007, 02:51 PM
Look, I'm not saying Casey is a horrible player, but as a 1B he isn't any better than replacement level. For a team like the Tigers he is useful because he fills a gap, but he isn't a difference-maker that is going to propel them to the playoffs or World Series. It was funny because Stark is making this bold statement that the Tigers are a new powerhouse but the first player he mentions is Sean Casey.


Casey for a season >>> than Shelton for two


What do you guys want? We are only paying Casey 4 mil, we picked him up at the deadline for nothing, he's solid. I don't see how Stark saying that having Casey all year will help is crazy. Would we rather have Ryan Howard, sure, but that **** isn't going to happen.

bleacherguy
04-01-2007, 02:54 PM
I think it'd be neat if he grounds out to LF again.

I'm no math whiz, but I believe that's a rather small sample-size to be judging the guy by.

estrepe1
04-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Casey for a season >>> than Shelton for two


Compare Shelton from 2005 and 2006 with Casey from 2005 and 2006 and see if that statement is actually correct.


I'm no math whiz, but I believe that's a rather small sample-size to be judging the guy by.

I am 99.9999% sure that was a joke.

tigersfandm
04-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Heck, I'm still trying to get accustomed to where many are picking the Tigers as the favorites. I'm used to the oh, I hope they reach .500 this year. Or there is always next year. It was just last year where I was hoping for at least .500 ball and anything after that was all gravy.

tigersfandm
04-01-2007, 03:19 PM
I feel we are like this cat in this picture. We are the hunted this year, YET we have no fear anymore and have a definite swagger and are accepting any and all challengers.

http://www.stpeterhemlock.org/Church/Images/Fear_no_evil.jpg

djhutch
04-01-2007, 03:38 PM
I don't know if I buy Jose Mesa as part of the "radar gun fest", but still nice to see. The key thing is injuries. I have a feeling Andrew Miller will have a big say in all of this before the season's over.

Byrne
04-01-2007, 03:42 PM
Casey is going to prove all of you wrong this year and will end up being an important presence in the Tigers' offense.

monkeytargets37
04-01-2007, 04:40 PM
Compare Shelton from 2005 and 2006 with Casey from 2005 and 2006 and see if that statement is actually correct.



Havent we already statistically proven that on all levels (even when removing Sheltons ridiculous April as an outlier).....

How many threads to we have to debate the usefulness of Sean Casey in....lets just see how this all plays out.

TigersFan81371
04-03-2007, 02:55 AM
Only a week ago, we were asking Indians GM Mark Shapiro about the possibility that his team could become this year's Tigers. He found that question kind of amusing.

"The biggest problem we'd have in being this year's Tigers," Shapiro replied, pithily, "is beating this year's Tigers.

That was my favorite part.

JonBenke
04-03-2007, 03:18 AM
There isn't much here - honestly, you can tell it was written by someone who isn't close to the team.

I honestly think that someone on this board could have written it better.

DET Mr Malefic
04-03-2007, 04:06 AM
If you add the caveats "when healthy" and "if there are no significant bumps" and apply them to every team in the league, then I do not believe the Tigers are the best team in the Majors or in the AL. However I would agree they are the best in the Central. I'd place them 4th in the AL, behind Boston, Toronto, and New York. That said, if they win the division anything can happen in the playoffs, and I do believe they are the best team in the division.


Toot!

Before the world series I kept bringing up the 1988 A's in a fearful tone.

I remember this, I'll definitely vouch for your prognostication.


Would we rather have Ryan Howard, sure, but that **** isn't going to happen.

But we DID have Josh Phelps, who is among the many players I'd rather have than Sean Casey. Of course, I'd rather have Shelton than Phelps, but I'm just making the point that you don't have to exaggerate to a player of Howard's caliber in order to find a player that I'd rather have than Sean Casey. Josh Phelps would suffice. He can now be found as the Yankees backup first baseman.