If Tigers self-destruct, it shouldn't be because of contracts

[estrepe1]

Sunday, February 18, 2007

If Tigers self-destruct, it shouldn't be because of contracts
LAKELAND, Fla. -- Jim Leyland talked the other day about self-destruction, and one way that teams self-destruct is that contract issues get in the way. You already see some complaints from other spring training camps this spring, whether it's Carlos Zambrano and the Cubs or Mariano Rivera and the Yankees.

So it should comfort Tiger fans to know that Carlos Guillen isn't prepared to make his lack of a contract extension a major issue in Lakeland.

Of course, Guillen would have preferred to have a new deal done over the winter. Absolutely, Leyland said Sunday, he wants Guillen to remain a Tiger.

But Leyland also said what he wants most is for Guillen to be happy, and when I asked Guillen if he was disappointed that a deal wasn't yet done, he said: ``A little bit, but I want to focus on the season. . . . It's business, and I'm not the guy with the checkbook. I'll talk now about the contract, but when I go on the field, I have to leave everything in the clubhouse, or at my house.''

If you doubt Guillen's ability to do that, think back to 2004, his first year with the Tigers. He was a potential free agent that year, too, and he was batting .322 with 10 home runs and 47 RBIs through 67 games when he signed the three-year, $14 million deal that expires at the end of this season.

The numbers will be bigger now, a lot closer to $14 million a year than to $14 million for three years. But there's no more indication now than there was then that the uncertainty will adversely affect Guillen or his team.

A few other Day 3 notes and observations:

1. The young pitcher who caught Leyland's eye today was Jair Jurrjens, the 21-year-old Curacao native who has gone 21-9 over the last two seasons in the Tiger farm system. ``Oh boy,'' Leyland said. ``The ball comes out of his hand nice.''

2. I know no one up North wants to hear that it's cold in Florida, but cold is relative, and when you're trying to play baseball outside, morning temperatures in the 30s and high winds feel cold. The wind was what forced the Tigers indoors today, but as pitching coach Chuck Hernandez pointed out, ``We're going North in April, not to Puerto Rico or the Dominican. We might as well get used to it.''

3. Leyland doesn't want to get into long lineup discussions yet, but he did say that Brandon Inge will probably bat 9th 95 percent of the time. That's fine with Inge, who likes the ninth spot so much that he refers to it as ``my house.'' Speaking of Inge, he's building a house in South Carolina, but is also buying a house outside Ann Arbor.

4. Leyland talked the other day about players who could improve this year. Sunday, he said two of the players he was referring to are Inge and Craig Monroe.

5. Leyland has already talked about Marcus Thames about playing first base. He's also planning to try out Omar Infante as a backup center fielder. Infante said he played center field for Caracas in the Venezuelan Winter League playoffs, and that he's happy to play anywhere if it gets him into more games.

6. Speaking of lineups, Leyland had his 15-year-old son Patrick make out a few, and he was impressed. ``He wrote out a heck of a lineup, probably the best one so far,'' Jim Leyland said. ``I'd be too ashamed to say I'd use it, and if I do use it, it will not have been his idea.''

7. This is the first year Inge hasn't reported with the catchers. He's now strictly a third baseman, although he unpacked a whole bunch of different gloves Sunday. ``Those are my Justin gloves,'' he said. ``Just in case.''


http://www.mlive.com/tigers/weblog/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_tigers/archives/2007_02.html#238810

[PuNk42AE]

Inge has his own house and is happy with it in the 9th spot, that is good to hear.

Funny about his son making lineups.

[ToledoTigerFan]

During a team-wide slump, Billy Martin put his nine starters names on a small piece of paper and drew the line-up out of his hat. And as I recall, won the game. Eddie Brinkman batted clean-up. Undoubtedly, the weakest clean-up hitter in the history of the game.

[tigersfandm]

I see Inge improving as well this year with the average and lower K's and fewer errors at 3B. I think Monroe has hit his ceiling though.

[thewave84]

Actually I think Monroe could improve. He is such a streaky hitter, and he usually has 1 or 2 red-hot months per year. He also usually has 2 stone-cold months per year. Well, if he is somehow able to get on a hot streak and replace a stone-cold month with a red-hot month, it could make a significant difference in his year-end numbers. Of course, streakiness could go the other way as well.

I am really bummed that they aren't making more of an effort to sign Guillen right now. Of course, I have no idea what it would take, but how about.
2007: already under contract for about 5 mil -> add a 5 mil signing bonus
2008: 17 mil
2009: 14 mil + 3 mil team buyout at season end which cancels the remainder of the deal.
2010: 14 mil + 3 mil team buyout
2011: 14 mil.

Basically it gives the Tigers leverage on how long they want to keep him, but he gets premium money for as long as they keep him.

[estrepe1]

I think they are making an effort.... I mean there weren't any reports that they were making an effort with Bonderman even though it happened.

I don't know if he would agree to a deal that is basically 2 guaranteed years wave..... I would guess that they don't want to go beyond 4 years and he likely wants a contract that will take him up until he retires.

[A.J.K.]

"if I do use it, it will not have been his idea.''


LOL!

Inge and Monroe are the main ones who need to improve, I agree.

[tiger337]

"if I do use it, it will not have been his idea.''


LOL!

Inge and Monroe are the main ones who need to improve, I agree.

I'm not sure whether he thinks they could improve or whether they need to improve. I'm not expecting them to be much different this year than they have been. I'm happy with Inge as he is because of his defensive contribution.

[estrepe1]

Granderson is the one I am hoping for improvement from. If he can find that first half patience I think he will get it too... As I showed in a previous thread his strikeouts were not the problem since they stayed constant. The thing that dropped off were the number of walks.

[Oblong]

I like the idea of Infante playing backup in center. That way you don't see an OF like Sheffield and Maggs at the corners with Monroe in CF.

[ToledoTigerFan]

I see Inge improving as well this year with the average and lower K's and fewer errors at 3B. I think Monroe has hit his ceiling though.

I guarantee you Inge will have fewer errors. I think he has a Gold Glove in the near future. If not this year, then next. I disagree about Monroe, though. I don't think he has peaked yet. He has gradually improved each year. I think he is just now realizing he can be more than a good player, but a very good player. I would not be surprised, barring injury, to see him have a .300, 30, 110 season.

[Oblong]

Inge will get a gold glove but as is the case with most of them, it'll come 2 years after he deserves one. The key is to get one early in your career, then you just get handed them automatically, like a birthright.

[ToledoTigerFan]

Ain't that the truth. Can you say Ozzie Smith? They just gave them to him after awhile.

[tiger337]

Ain't that the truth. Can you say Ozzie Smith? They just gave them to him after awhile.

Smith deserved them though.

[NJ Jackal]

Smith deserved them though.
Smith doesn't deserve anything because Alan Trammell is not in the Hall of Fame. All Smith did was back flips, that's it, nothing else. Come on Lee, don't you pay attention?????

[beek_27]

I will rejoice the day that Guillen is signed and in a Tigers uniform for a few more years, if not the rest of his career.

[djhutch]

I think they'll get a deal done with Guillen. I've been surprised by Monroe all along. I didn't think he'd accomplish this much, so I wouldn't be surprised to be surprised again. :confused:

[tigersfandm]

I wonder if DD is waiting to see how Carlos performs this year and how his knee holds up. Maybe that is the delay on his signing? That would be a catch 22 as if Guillen has a big year this year, that will cost DD big time, but if his knee starts acting up, then that could cost Guillen. I bet if Guillen didn't have the knee potential problem, DD would of signed him already, but like somebody else said in here, nobody heard a word on the effort to sign Bonderman until it we all heard he was sign for more years.

This wait on whether they will sign him does make me see how amazing it was on how great of a deal DD got him for originally when he signed him for those 4 years. The guy has just as good, if not better offensive stats than Jeter, yet nobody metions Guillen at all. It is all Jeter, Tejada, etc.

[Yoda]

1. The young pitcher who caught Leyland's eye today was Jair Jurrjens, the 21-year-old Curacao native who has gone 21-9 over the last two seasons in the Tiger farm system. ``Oh boy,'' Leyland said. ``The ball comes out of his hand nice.''

I'm surprised this hasn't been given much attention. I love the fact that he's catching Leyland's eye. Could he be closer to a promotion than we anticipated?

[Just Some Dude]

I expect Monroe to at the least have the same power but to hit for a much higher average this season.

[Tyrus]

Since the Tiger Renaissance began, the organization has proven they're willing to pay through the nose for a player they want. So I am very confident a deal will get done with No. 9.

[DaYooperASBDT]

With all the crazy figures that guys like Zito, etc were getting signed to this winter, perhaps DD was hoping for a "market correction" this spring? I do hope something gets resolved soon though. Guillen has earned a big deal, my only concern would be contract length. We don't want another ball & chain deal, so I am hoping 4 years max.

[Tyrus]

I'm surprised this hasn't been given much attention. I love the fact that he's catching Leyland's eye. Could he be closer to a promotion than we anticipated?


I was thrilled to read that tidbit. But where ya gonna put him? It's a great situation to be in: very few openings on the pitching staff. How many major league teams can say that?

Hell, how many teams in the AL Central can say that they're pretty much set at pitching?

My guess is, JJ won't make the team out of spring training...but if someone like Grilli should falter during the season, Jair will be called up real quic,

Of course, if JJ outpitches Grilli this spring (or someone else), I feel confident Leyland will bring up up with the big club. That's how it should be done, and I wish all managers shared Jim's philosophy of "let the best man win."

[berneree]

I'm surprised this hasn't been given much attention. I love the fact that he's catching Leyland's eye. Could he be closer to a promotion than we anticipated?
I don't think he is any closer to a promotion.....there is no room for him.

It is getting funny listening to Leyland. He really is Sparky Anderson in disguise. He is throwing around praise for a lot of the young pitchers.....probably too much.

But it can certainly help come trade time that management is talking positively about the prospects. It is what marketing is all about.

You try and trade them (and their contracts)!

[DaYooperASBDT]

If Jurrgens and/or Tata show something early on, perhaps the Tigers will start shopping Jones again?

OTOH, Grilli pitched decently last year, but is not exactly untouchable, either.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I don't think he is any closer to a promotion.....there is no room for him.

It is getting funny listening to Leyland. He really is Sparky Anderson in disguise. He is throwing around praise for a lot of the young pitchers.....probably too much.

But it can certainly help come trade time that management is talking positively about the prospects. It is what marketing is all about.

You try and trade them (and their contracts)!Never hurts to talk up your guys, but Sparky's statements about Torey Luvullo and Chris Pittaro are really hilarious, looking back. Leyland hasn't gotten quite THAT carried away yet! :cheeky:

[estrepe1]

If Jurrgens and/or Tata show something early on, perhaps the Tigers will start shopping Jones again?

OTOH, Grilli pitched decently last year, but is not exactly untouchable, either.

Its Jurrjens....

I don't think they will put Jurrjens in the bullpen anytime soon. He is a starter.

I'm surprised this hasn't been given much attention. I love the fact that he's catching Leyland's eye. Could he be closer to a promotion than we anticipated?

No. I think they will take it slow with him. I am not sure if we will even see him in 2008. Given his age it won't matter if he has to repeat AAA due to no room.

Of course they could always open a second spot for him in the rotation in 2008 if he really dominates in 2007.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Whups, guess I was thinking of the lotion ...... That's spelled Jurrgens, right?

You could argue that Zumaya was a starter too, but in highsight I'm glad he ended up in the bullpen, given his high-stress pitching style.

[beek_27]

1. The young pitcher who caught Leyland's eye today was Jair Jurrjens, the 21-year-old Curacao native who has gone 21-9 over the last two seasons in the Tiger farm system. ``Oh boy,'' Leyland said. ``The ball comes out of his hand nice.''

I love Leyland's short assessments - they make me think he's not much of a stat guy.

[DrWho17]

Inge will get a gold glove but as is the case with most of them, it'll come 2 years after he deserves one. The key is to get one early in your career, then you just get handed them automatically, like a birthright.
Inge won't win a gold glove with his error count, and relatively average offensive production from the 3rd base position. You guys can quote range factor all you want, but I don't think guys with 20+ errors are going to get much consideration.

[beek_27]

Inge won't win a gold glove with his error count.....but I don't think guys with 20+ errors are going to get much consideration.

I agree, but if he cuts down on his errors he has a great shot!

[estrepe1]

You could argue that Zumaya was a starter too, but in highsight I'm glad he ended up in the bullpen, given his high-stress pitching style.

Two completely different situations.

[tiger337]

Inge won't win a gold glove with his error count, and relatively average offensive production from the 3rd base position. You guys can quote range factor all you want, but I don't think guys with 20+ errors are going to get much consideration.

I agree that the voters will look at error totals. They shouldn't put much weight on that though because they don't say that much. They shouldn't look at range factor too closely either. There are better range stats than that.

[tiger337]

I love Leyland's short assessments - they make me think he's not much of a stat guy.

Managers are almost never stat guys. It's more important for the GM to have a good handle on stats because he is the one who puts to team together. It would be good if the manager understood something about stats too but I don't think it is vital.

[Microline133]

I'm surprised this hasn't been given much attention. I love the fact that he's catching Leyland's eye. Could he be closer to a promotion than we anticipated?
The only promotion Jurrjens is closer to getting, is one to Toledo. If he continues to impress, he could move past one of the following for a slot in the Toledo rotation....Tata, Durbin, Vasquez, DLC, Bazardo, Tankersley, Bierne...otherwise, he's ticketed for a significant stretch at Erie this season.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Two completely different situations.Are you saying different because of the depth of this year's staff compared to last year's, or because of the two players involved?

[Yoda]

The only promotion Jurrjens is closer to getting, is one to Toledo. If he continues to impress, he could move past one of the following for a slot in the Toledo rotation....Tata, Durbin, Vasquez, DLC, Bazardo, Tankersley, Bierne...otherwise, he's ticketed for a significant stretch at Erie this season.

I wouldn't be so sure of this. Mid-season he'll have a full year of AA experience and if the Tigers need help I could see him jumping ahead of any of those guys, if he's pitching well. We saw what making an impression did for Tata and Clevlen last year. Neither of them were worthy of a promotion at the time.

[eastside billee]

Since Leyland is allowing his 15 year old son to make out prospective lineups, maybe he should take a look over here at a few of you guys' lineups - which make tremendous sense at times.

[Just Some Dude]

What we need is for MLB to increase the roster size to like 27. Then we can go to a 6 man rotation and add another no hit scrub to the bench :)

[estrepe1]

Are you saying different because of the depth of this year's staff compared to last year's, or because of the two players involved?

Because of the two players involved. Jurrjens has a smooth delivery with a high level of command and control. Zumaya has better raw stuff than Jurrjens.

Its more likely that Jurrjens would have the stamina and health to take on a starting role full time than Zumaya.

[Shaggy Ry]

I wouldn't read too much into Leyland's coments on our pitching prospects, it seems like he fluffs up a different kid every day.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Because of the two players involved. Jurrjens has a smooth delivery with a high level of command and control. Zumaya has better raw stuff than Jurrjens.

Its more likely that Jurrjens would have the stamina and health to take on a starting role full time than Zumaya.That makes sense. I do remember a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth last spring, when it became likely that Zumaya would be converted to relief. But now that folks have seen him pitch, I doubt many still feel that way.

[estrepe1]

That makes sense. I do remember a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth last spring, when it became likely that Zumaya would be converted to relief. But now that folks have seen him pitch, I doubt many still feel that way.

I still may have given it a try with Zumaya... I think with improved command he would be successful. However now that he has tasted success in the bullpen I don't see him ever coming out.

However with Jurrjens it isn't really a question what his role will be if he is healthy.

[Microline133]

I wouldn't be so sure of this. Mid-season he'll have a full year of AA experience and if the Tigers need help I could see him jumping ahead of any of those guys, if he's pitching well. We saw what making an impression did for Tata and Clevlen last year. Neither of them were worthy of a promotion at the time.
The problem with your scenario, Yoda, is that there wasn't anyone in front of Tata and Clevlen that had made a grand impression to that point....at this time, there is in Jurrjens case. DLC, Tata, Bazardo, and Durbin have all made impressions already, and are all on the 40-man roster, whereas Jurrjens is not.

[whitecapwendy]

Since Leyland is allowing his 15 year old son to make out prospective lineups, maybe he should take a look over here at a few of you guys' lineups - which make tremendous sense at times.
If 777 were here he would say "Where do you think his son got his line up?" :laugh: