Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame - 1925 Elections

[dt35456884]

The names below represent pitchers and hitters who hung up their Tigers uniforms for the final time by the end of the 1925 season, logging at least 300 innings or 1,000 at-bats during their time with Detroit. It also includes non-players who were significant to the organization.

Between these names and the position players below, we will agree upon a list of up to 12 players which will make up the pool of 1925 nominees.

We will be voting on the 1925 nominees as well as the nominees from previous classes who were not elected but who met the minimum vote percentage to remain on the ballot.


Pitchers
1921-1925

Player YR From To W L WL% ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+
Howard Ehmke 6 1916 1922 75 75 0.500 3.61 186 145 35 89 10 6 1236.3 1232 616 496 43 516 458 98
Dutch Leonard 5 1919 1925 49 49 0.500 3.79 120 112 6 56 8 2 830.7 888 426 350 38 252 389 102
Red Oldham 5 1914 1922 34 44 0.436 4.09 148 86 39 35 2 9 759.7 856 435 345 32 256 241 94
Herman Pillette 3 1922 1924 34 32 0.515 3.42 106 76 18 33 4 3 562.7 596 278 214 14 192 148 113
Bert Cole 5 1921 1925 26 27 0.491 4.53 137 42 65 18 4 9 495.0 601 317 249 22 186 98 89
Syl Johnson 4 1922 1925 24 16 0.600 4.15 101 35 41 12 0 4 390.3 408 204 180 28 129 182 95
Doc Ayers 3 1919 1921 12 17 0.414 3.58 72 29 27 11 4 1 306.3 314 155 122 8 95 135 99

Position Players
1921-1925

Player YR From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
Donie Bush 14 1908 1921 1872 6970 1242 1745 181 73 9 427 1125 334 .250 .357 .301 400 71 92
Bobby Veach 12 1912 1923 1604 5979 859 1859 345 136 59 1042 512 345 .311 .370 .444 189 75 130
Oscar Stanage 13 1909 1925 1095 3502 248 819 123 34 8 321 219 268 .234 .284 .295 30 2 69
Ralph Young 7 1915 1921 890 3158 416 792 89 28 3 219 437 211 .251 .344 .300 82 53 84
Bob Jones 9 1917 1925 853 2990 399 791 120 38 7 316 208 156 .265 .314 .337 49 30 75
Topper Rigney 4 1922 1925 493 1651 233 489 75 29 9 249 246 133 .296 .389 .393 37 26 105
Fred Haney 4 1922 1925 423 1370 264 407 46 12 5 162 182 79 .297 .383 .359 34 18 94

Final 1925 nominees as chosen by voting committee appear in blue.


Carryover Nominees
1901-1920

Player YR From To W L WL% ERA G GS GF CG SHO SV IP H R ER HR BB SO ERA+
Harry Coveleski 5 1914 1918 69 43 0.616 2.34 157 125 22 68 9 8 1023.3 887 385 266 12 270 400 123
Ed Killian 7 1904 1910 99 74 0.572 2.38 204 172 29 142 19 6 1536.7 1402 561 406 8 469 498 109
Ed Siever 5 1901 1908 60 54 0.526 2.61 143 123 19 93 11 2 1036.0 1070 460 301 15 207 303 121
Ed Summers 5 1908 1912 68 45 0.602 2.42 138 112 22 79 9 3 999.0 930 404 269 19 221 362 111

Player YR From To G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS OPS+
Davy Jones 8 1906 1918 646 2175 412 586 47 19 0 138 272 0 .269 .355 .309 140 0 100
Matty McIntyre 7 1904 1910 795 2997 412 783 109 54 3 211 331 0 .261 .338 .337 89 0 112
Jimmy Barrett 5 1901 1905 589 2259 383 660 59 30 10 174 309 0 .292 .382 .358 92 0 118
Germany Schaefer5 1905 1909 626 2236 279 558 75 25 8 195 158 0 .250 .300 .316 123 0 94
Jim Delahanty 4 1909 1912 375 1336 213 409 70 18 6 200 158 0 .306 .394 .399 48 0 129

Manager YR From To G W L WP BstFin WstFin PostSsn Pennts WrldSer
Hughie Jennings 14 1907 1920 2127 1131 972 0.538 1 7 3 3 0


Committee Members:

Voting Deadline - Friday, February 23rd at 11:59 PM
Vote for up to 5 of the player nominees listed in blue above (1925 Pitchers, 1925 Position Players, and 1901-20 Carryover Nominees).
Votes for non-players (managers, owners, presidents, broadcasters, etc.) do not count against your 5-vote limit.

[DTroppens]

Syl Johnson represents the guy I spell his first name wrong the most despite knowing how to spell it. Who is named Syl these days anyway?!?

[DTroppens]

These are my selections. A lot of these are selected based on service. Will I vote for Young. No. But I think he deserves to be on this ballot.

Bush
Veach
Stanage
Jones
Young
Rigney

Ehmke
Leonard
Oldham
Pillette

That's my 10
If 12 add Haney and Cole.

This is a pretty good offensive era folks. Check out those 1921 and 1922 teams. They could hit the ball.

[squid]

Now the homework comes, who to nominate and who to vote for. Now it gets fun.

When do we have to have our nominations in by?

[estrepe1]

I am going to agree with DTroppens on the nominations.

[dt35456884]

When do we have to have our nominations in by?

It's not any kind of deadline you have to meet. Just discuss it in the thread. As a group we'll all decide on a dozen guys by the end of the weekend.

[DTroppens]

I wonder how many people are going to learn that Ty Cobb was a manager while doing this era.

[DTroppens]

I thought this one was easy.

[DTroppens]

You do a good job on these lists. I keep thinking of names that come into my mind every list and then I find out I am off on the era.
Johnny Bassler came to my mind but I just checked and saw he was here longer than 1925.

[DTroppens]

Don't those walks to Bush just stick out. The guy couldn't hit for average or power for his life and yet he got that many walks.

Also people should note that in this era there weren't a ton of strikeouts and it was very common for pitchers to have more walks than strikeouts.


P.S. Another fun one when he comes up (which has to be the next elections) will be Lu Blue.

[squid]

Lousy class IMO, but if we have to nominate 10-12 I'll go with DT's picks.

Cobb took over in 25.

[squid]

From what I've read, Donnie Bush was the Ozzie Smith of his era.

[estrepe1]

Bush is up. This will be interesting.

Lots of longevity with him. He was with the team for a long time.

Veach was really good. I think he is underrated historically.

[estrepe1]

P.S. Another fun one when he comes up (which has to be the next elections) will be Lu Blue.

Lu will be fun. His stats are very interesting. Not a lot of (more than Bush) but good OBP.

[dt35456884]

Yeah, this is our weakest class yet.

Stanage
Jones

I give Ayers and Johnson the nod over these two.

[DTroppens]

Squid,
It really depends on what you read and how much you depend on statistical data.
No SSs in that era were lighting it up with their fielding percentage but Bush certainly wasn't even lighting up a match in most years. However, early in his career he is given credit as a strong defensive player who does what is needed - to get on base regardless how he got on. As the years go on and our pitching gets worse and so does the defense the opinion of his defense changes. He (along with Ralph Young) are terrible at turning DPs giving teams extra outs in an era that we se higher averages and more power. While his offensive numbers are fine during the middle of the deadball era (especially considering what we needed from him) that's not necessarily true at the end of this era.

A total guess. If his career started in 1901 he would've been totally better off.

I don't know how I'm going to vote for him. Do I look at when he was supposedly effective or ineffective. Or more accurately where in the middle do I look at him. What do I believe about his defense and what about his other attributes like his speed. We'll see.

[whitecapwendy]

I wonder how many people are going to learn that Ty Cobb was a manager while doing this era.
Already knew that :classic:

[whitecapwendy]

P.S. Another fun one when he comes up (which has to be the next elections) will be Lu Blue.
He has already caught my eye for 1930

[estrepe1]

I think I am pretty close to voting already. I just need to decide on one spot.

[whitecapwendy]

Veach was really good. I think he is underrated historically.
That lineup there for a few years was really wicked. I can't imagine Veach being underrated.

[whitecapwendy]

I think I am pretty close to voting already. I just need to decide on one spot.
I want to research these guys out more, but already know 1 for sure, and 1 about 95%. This may be a tough class for me (depending on how my research goes with these guys) there are a few from holdovers that I would like to vote for as well. I am not going to look any further tonight. Tomorrow will involve some heavy research.

[DTroppens]

Stanage's defense was the reason he was around for so long. He was considered a very good defensive catcher. I think he needs to be on.

[DTroppens]

Lu Blue was considered an outstanding defensive player as well. Even as late as the 1920s teams put more emphasis on defense at first than we'd ever guess in today's game. A guy could keep his position at first in the early seasons because of his glove almost to the point that a SS could keep his right up until the 1980s and even to an extent today.

Well maybe not to that extreme but defensive ability at first was certainly more of an issue even in the 1920s and for sure earlier than that than it is today.

[estrepe1]

That lineup there for a few years was really wicked. I can't imagine Veach being underrated.

I think he was overshadowed by having Crawford on the same team for a while, having Cobb on the same team for his entire career and having Heilmann on the same team for a while.

If Bobby Abreu was in the same OF with Ken Griffey Jr and Barry Bonds would you hear much about Bobby Abreu?

[whitecapwendy]

Okay, I am probably looking like a duck out of water, but I am going to lobby for a guy I really thought should have made it (Jennings already has plenty already going to bat for him).
I really thought Coveleski would be a shoe in. What is not to like about the guy? From a w/l % of .616, a work horse who had 68 complete games, a 270/400 BB/SO, and last but definitely not least an ERA+ of 123. He was the very first Tiger in this class that caught my attention. IN the 36 games that he started as a Tiger, he completed 23 of them--with 22 wins. Four of the five seasons his ERA was under 3, and his 2.34 ERA is still a franchise record. I feel strongly about him and really want to see him voted in.

[dt35456884]

Okay, I am probably looking like a duck out of water, but I am going to lobby for a guy I really thought should have made it (Jennings already has plenty already going for him).
I really thought Coveleski would be a shoe in. What is not to like about the guy? From a w/l % of .616, a work horse who had 68 complete games, a 270/400 BB/SO, and last but definitely not least an ERA+ of 123. He was the very first Tiger in this class that caught my attention. IN the 36 games that he started as a Tiger, he completed 23 of them. Four of the five seasons his ERA was under 3, and his 2.34 ERA is still a franchise record. I feel strongly about him and really want to see him voted in.

Coveleski is a terrific candidate. I'm a big fan of his. I wish he had been voted in, but was pleased to see that a lot of people supported him.

This week's class is, well, weak. Not to say it doesn't have some legit HOF candidates, it just doesn't have the depth of talent that earlier classes have had. I'm hoping some of the threshold guys from '15 and '20 finally get over the hump this time.

[ClintD]

Okay, I am probably looking like a duck out of water, but I am going to lobby for a guy I really thought should have made it (Jennings already has plenty already going to bat for him).
I really thought Coveleski would be a shoe in. What is not to like about the guy? From a w/l % of .616, a work horse who had 68 complete games, a 270/400 BB/SO, and last but definitely not least an ERA+ of 123. He was the very first Tiger in this class that caught my attention. IN the 36 games that he started as a Tiger, he completed 23 of them--with 22 wins. Four of the five seasons his ERA was under 3, and his 2.34 ERA is still a franchise record. I feel strongly about him and really want to see him voted in.

I'm completely on board with you! I don't understand how this guy got passed over! 5 seasons is not a terribly long time, but it's not a terribly short time either. His statistical data was absolutely overwhelming, especially next to the other 1920 nominees!

Can a non-Coveleski voter shed some light?

[DTroppens]

WhitecapWendy,
Coveleski was a tough call. I could've gone either way with him and for some reason at the last minute I didn't. I gave dt my votes and told him I may make adjustments but I figured if I didn't initially put him down, I shouldn't add him (I had one more vote remaining). Look at the results. He got over 50% of the vote so he was a very good candidate. He just didn't get in. I was pushing for Barrett and he just fell flat on his face. I think Coveleski will have a shot this time as well.

I could see me picking as little as three but picking as many as six in this class. It depends on do I what mix of quality and quantity I put into it.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Doc Ayers - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1919 28 DET AL 5 3 24 5 3 1 10 0 93.7 88 34 28 2 31 32 3 1 378 1 2.69 3.19 118 1.270
1920 29 DET AL 7 14 46 23 8 3 16 1 208.7 217 115 90 6 62 103 8 1 861 1 3.88 3.71 96 1.337
1921 30 DET AL 0 0 2 1 0 0 1 0 4.0 9 6 4 0 2 0 0 0 23 1 9.00 4.28 48 2.750

Donie Bush - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1908 20 DET AL 20 68 13 20 1 1 0 4 2 7 .294 .360 .338 123 23 4 0
1909 21 DET AL 157 532 114 145 18 2 0 33 53 88 .273 .380 .314 116 167 52 4
1910 22 DET AL 142 496 90 130 13 4 3 34 49 78 .262 .365 .323 109 160 30 2
1911 23 DET AL 150 561 126 130 18 5 1 36 40 98 .232 .349 .287 75 161 30 3 MVP-14
1912 24 DET AL 144 511 107 118 14 8 2 38 35 117 .231 .377 .301 97 154 12 3
1913 25 DET AL 153 597 98 150 19 10 1 40 44 80 32 .251 .344 .322 96 192 13 4 MVP-12
1914 26 DET AL 157 596 97 150 18 4 0 32 35 26 112 54 .252 .373 .295 99 176 10 3 MVP-3
1915 27 DET AL 155 561 99 128 12 8 1 44 35 27 118 44 .228 .364 .283 90 159 22 2
1916 28 DET AL 145 550 73 124 5 9 0 34 19 75 42 .225 .319 .267 73 147 27 1
1917 29 DET AL 147 581 112 163 18 3 0 24 34 80 40 .281 .370 .322 111 187 10 2
1918 30 DET AL 128 500 74 117 10 3 0 22 9 79 31 .234 .340 .266 86 133 13 1
1919 31 DET AL 129 509 82 124 11 6 0 26 22 75 36 .244 .343 .289 80 147 16 2
1920 32 DET AL 141 506 85 133 18 5 1 33 15 7 73 32 .263 .357 .324 83 164 48 1
1921 33 DET AL 104 402 72 113 6 5 0 27 8 11 45 23 .281 .355 .321 74 129 40 1

Bert Cole - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1921 24 DET AL 7 4 20 11 7 1 9 1 109.7 134 66 52 3 36 22 4 0 494 1 4.27 4.28 100 1.550
1922 25 DET AL 1 6 23 5 2 1 12 0 79.3 105 60 43 4 39 21 1 1 383 1 4.88 3.87 79 1.815
1923 26 DET AL 13 5 52 13 6 1 26 5 163.0 183 95 75 9 61 32 5 0 733 0 4.14 3.86 93 1.497
1924 27 DET AL 3 9 28 11 2 1 11 2 109.3 135 69 57 4 35 16 4 2 482 0 4.69 4.10 87 1.555
1925 28 DET AL 2 3 14 2 1 0 7 1 33.7 44 27 22 2 15 7 1 2 157 0 5.88 4.30 73 1.752

Howard Ehmke - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1916 22 DET AL 3 1 5 4 4 0 1 0 37.3 34 16 13 0 15 15 0 1 150 0 3.13 2.85 91 1.312
1917 23 DET AL 10 15 35 25 13 4 10 2 206.0 174 84 68 3 88 90 5 4 808 0 2.97 2.63 89 1.272
1919 25 DET AL 17 10 33 31 20 2 2 0 248.7 255 114 88 5 107 79 6 3 1043 0 3.18 3.19 100 1.456
1920 26 DET AL 15 18 38 33 23 2 5 3 268.3 250 133 97 8 124 98 13 0 1140 2 3.25 3.71 114 1.394
1921 27 DET AL 13 14 30 22 13 1 4 0 196.3 220 123 99 15 81 68 13 1 888 1 4.54 4.28 94 1.533
1922 28 DET AL 17 17 45 30 16 1 13 1 279.7 299 146 131 12 101 108 23 1 1232 1 4.22 3.87 92 1.430

Fred Haney - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1922 24 DET AL 81 213 41 75 7 4 0 25 3 8 32 14 .352 .439 .423 128 90 12 1
1923 25 DET AL 142 503 85 142 13 4 4 67 13 5 45 23 .282 .347 .348 85 175 27 5
1924 26 DET AL 86 256 54 79 11 1 1 30 7 4 39 13 .309 .400 .371 101 95 11 0
1925 27 DET AL 114 398 84 111 15 3 0 40 11 1 66 29 .279 .384 .332 84 132 17 2

Syl Johnson - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1922 21 DET AL 7 3 29 8 3 0 13 1 97.0 99 52 40 7 30 29 4 2 407 0 3.71 3.87 104 1.330
1923 22 DET AL 12 7 37 18 7 0 10 0 176.3 181 82 78 12 47 93 3 3 734 0 3.98 3.86 97 1.293
1924 23 DET AL 5 4 29 9 2 0 13 3 104.0 117 63 57 8 42 55 5 1 467 0 4.93 4.10 83 1.529
1925 24 DET AL 0 2 6 0 0 0 5 0 13.0 11 7 5 1 10 5 0 1 57 0 3.46 4.30 124 1.615

Bob Jones - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1917 27 DET AL 46 77 16 12 1 2 0 2 3 4 8 .156 .198 .221 28 17 2 0
1918 28 DET AL 74 287 43 79 14 4 0 21 7 17 16 .275 .320 .352 106 101 14 2
1919 29 DET AL 127 439 37 114 18 6 1 57 11 34 39 .260 .314 .335 84 147 23 1
1920 30 DET AL 81 265 35 66 6 3 1 18 3 4 22 13 .249 .309 .306 65 81 11 1
1921 31 DET AL 141 554 82 168 23 9 1 72 8 9 37 24 .303 .348 .383 87 212 26 1
1922 32 DET AL 124 455 65 117 10 6 3 44 8 5 36 18 .257 .314 .325 69 148 29 2
1923 33 DET AL 100 372 51 93 15 4 1 40 7 6 29 13 .250 .306 .320 66 119 29 1
1924 34 DET AL 110 393 52 107 27 4 0 47 1 5 20 20 .272 .308 .361 73 142 19 0
1925 35 DET AL 50 148 18 35 6 0 0 15 1 1 9 5 .236 .280 .277 42 41 7 0

Dutch Leonard - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1919 27 DET AL 14 13 29 28 18 4 1 0 217.3 212 89 67 7 65 102 7 4 908 0 2.77 3.19 115 1.275
1920 28 DET AL 10 17 28 27 10 3 1 0 191.3 192 107 92 8 63 76 8 13 781 0 4.33 3.71 86 1.333
1921 29 DET AL 11 13 36 32 16 1 3 1 245.0 273 125 102 15 63 120 10 7 1058 0 3.75 4.28 114 1.371
1924 32 DET AL 3 2 9 7 3 0 1 1 51.3 68 32 26 1 18 26 1 1 230 0 4.56 4.10 90 1.675
1925 33 DET AL 11 4 18 18 9 0 0 0 125.7 143 73 63 7 43 65 1 4 555 0 4.51 4.30 95 1.480

Red Oldham - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg W L G GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP WP BFP IBB BK ERA *lgERA *ERA+ WHIP
+--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+-----+-----+----+-----+
1914 20 DET AL 2 4 9 7 3 0 2 0 45.3 42 22 17 1 8 23 3 0 184 3 3.38 2.82 83 1.103
1915 21 DET AL 3 0 17 2 1 0 10 4 57.7 52 22 18 1 17 17 4 1 235 1 2.81 3.02 107 1.197
1920 26 DET AL 8 13 39 22 10 1 9 1 215.3 248 132 92 5 91 62 6 6 929 1 3.85 3.71 97 1.574
1921 27 DET AL 11 14 40 28 12 1 9 1 229.3 258 129 108 11 81 67 6 5 1012 0 4.24 4.28 101 1.478
1922 28 DET AL 10 13 43 27 9 0 9 3 212.0 256 130 110 14 59 72 11 4 938 0 4.67 3.87 83 1.486

Herman Pillette - Season Statistics (Detroit)

1922 25 DET AL 19 12 40 37 18 4 3 1 274.7 270 110 87 6 95 71 15 6 1183 0 2.85 3.87 136 1.329
1923 26 DET AL 14 19 47 36 14 0 9 1 250.3 280 138 107 7 83 64 6 3 1089 1 3.85 3.86 100 1.450
1924 27 DET AL 1 1 19 3 1 0 6 1 37.7 46 30 20 1 14 13 3 3 179 1 4.78 4.10 86 1.593

Topper Rigney - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1922 25 DET AL 155 536 68 161 17 7 2 63 17 8 68 44 .300 .380 .369 98 198 37 1
1923 26 DET AL 129 470 63 148 24 11 1 74 7 5 55 35 .315 .389 .419 114 197 33 2
1924 27 DET AL 147 499 81 144 29 9 4 94 11 11 102 39 .289 .410 .407 113 203 31 1
1925 28 DET AL 62 146 21 36 5 2 2 18 2 2 21 15 .247 .341 .349 76 51 3 0

Oscar Stanage - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1909 26 DET AL 77 252 17 66 8 6 0 21 2 11 .262 .298 .341 98 86 4 2
1910 27 DET AL 88 275 24 57 7 4 2 25 1 20 .207 .266 .284 67 78 10 2
1911 28 DET AL 141 503 45 133 13 7 3 51 3 20 .264 .297 .336 73 169 16 3
1912 29 DET AL 121 394 35 103 9 4 0 41 3 34 .261 .326 .305 83 120 8 4
1913 30 DET AL 80 241 19 54 13 2 0 21 5 21 35 .224 .292 .295 72 71 8 2
1914 31 DET AL 122 400 16 77 8 4 0 25 2 1 24 58 .192 .242 .232 41 93 15 2
1915 32 DET AL 100 300 27 67 9 2 1 31 5 1 20 41 .223 .274 .277 61 83 6 1
1916 33 DET AL 94 291 16 69 17 3 0 30 3 17 48 .237 .286 .316 78 92 7 3
1917 34 DET AL 99 297 19 61 14 1 0 30 3 20 35 .205 .262 .259 59 77 9 3
1918 35 DET AL 54 186 9 47 4 0 1 14 2 11 18 .253 .294 .290 79 54 3 0
1919 36 DET AL 38 120 9 29 4 1 1 15 1 7 12 .242 .295 .317 73 38 4 2
1920 37 DET AL 78 238 12 55 17 0 0 17 0 0 14 21 .231 .277 .303 55 72 8 1
1925 42 DET AL 3 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .200 .200 .200 2 1 0 0

Bobby Veach - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1912 24 DET AL 23 79 8 27 5 1 0 15 2 5 .342 .388 .430 137 34 3 1
1913 25 DET AL 137 491 54 132 22 10 0 64 22 53 31 .269 .346 .354 106 174 15 5
1914 26 DET AL 149 531 56 146 19 14 1 72 20 20 50 29 .275 .341 .369 111 196 22 3
1915 27 DET AL 152 569 81 178 40 10 3 112 16 19 68 43 .313 .390 .434 142 247 18 4
1916 28 DET AL 150 566 92 173 33 15 3 91 24 15 52 41 .306 .367 .433 136 245 24 3
1917 29 DET AL 154 571 79 182 31 12 8 103 21 61 44 .319 .393 .457 159 261 25 9
1918 30 DET AL 127 499 59 139 21 13 3 78 21 35 23 .279 .331 .391 121 195 17 4
1919 31 DET AL 139 538 87 191 45 17 3 101 19 33 33 .355 .398 .519 158 279 22 5
1920 32 DET AL 154 612 92 188 39 15 11 113 11 7 36 22 .307 .353 .474 119 290 15 7
1921 33 DET AL 150 612 110 207 43 13 16 128 14 10 48 31 .338 .387 .529 133 324 27 1
1922 34 DET AL 155 618 96 202 34 13 9 126 9 1 42 27 .327 .377 .468 122 289 36 8
1923 35 DET AL 114 293 45 94 13 3 2 39 10 3 29 21 .321 .388 .406 111 119 14 3

Ralph Young - Season Statistics (Detroit)

Year Ag Tm Lg G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1913 24 NYY AL 7 15 2 1 0 0 0 0 2 3 3 .067 .222 .067 -15 1 0 0
1915 26 DET AL 123 378 44 92 6 5 0 31 12 11 53 31 .243 .339 .286 83 108 22 2
1916 27 DET AL 153 528 60 139 16 6 1 45 20 20 62 43 .263 .342 .322 96 170 23 1
1917 28 DET AL 141 503 64 116 18 2 1 35 8 61 35 .231 .317 .280 82 141 31 3
1918 29 DET AL 91 298 31 56 7 1 0 21 15 54 17 .188 .312 .218 63 65 16 0
1919 30 DET AL 125 456 63 96 13 5 1 25 8 53 32 .211 .294 .268 59 122 46 1
1920 31 DET AL 150 594 84 173 21 6 0 33 8 13 85 30 .291 .382 .347 96 206 22 2
1921 32 DET AL 107 401 70 120 8 3 0 29 11 9 69 23 .299 .406 .334 91 134 13 3

[DaYooperASBDT]

My list would be these 10. Very weak class overall.

Bush
Ehmke
Jones
Leonard
Oldham
Pillette
Rigney
Stanage
Veach
Young

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://tigerbaseball.us/images/B/BUSH_DONIE1909.jpg
Donie Bush
Shortstop, 1908-21

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/amchiche/Detroit%20Tigers%20HOF/bertcole.jpg
Bert Cole
Pitcher, 1921-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/photos/headshots/Ehmke_Howard.gif
Howard Ehmke
Pitcher, 1916-22

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/amchiche/Detroit%20Tigers%20HOF/fredhaney.jpg
Fred Haney
Third Baseman, 1922-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/amchiche/Detroit%20Tigers%20HOF/bobjones.jpg
Bob Jones
Third Baseman, 1917-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/photos/headshots/Leonard_Dutch92.gif
Dutch Leonard
Pitcher, 1919-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

Red Oldham
Pitcher, 1914-22

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/amchiche/Detroit%20Tigers%20HOF/pillette.jpg
Herman Pillette
Pitcher, 1922-24

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

Topper Rigney
Shortstop, 1922-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/stanage1.jpg
Oscar Stanage
Catcher, 1909-25

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/amchiche/Detroit%20Tigers%20HOF/veach.jpg
Bobby Veach
Outfielder, 1912-23

[dt35456884]

1925 Detroit Tigers Hall of Fame Nominee

http://www.baseballlibrary.com/baseballlibrary/photos/headshots/Young_Ralph.gif
Ralph Young
Second Baseman, 1915-21

[whitecapwendy]

Wendy, is that compared to league average? Strikeouts were a lot less frequent back then, the emphasis of the hitters was more on contact, then hacking away for the home run.
Thanks. That helps

[DaYooperASBDT]

Wow, Donnie Bush placed 3rd in MVP voting in 1914, despite very ordinary looking offensive stats. He must have done backflips with a pike thrown in, before throwing to first for the out !! :cheeky:

Bush had 1242 runs scored as a Tiger, and led the league in walks five times. That cinches it for me, along with his high OBP and steals.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Right now I'm leaning toward 2 votes from this class, plus re-votes for Killian & Coveleski. Undecided on my fifth player vote. And I will vote again for Jennings, as a non-player. Hughie should be in without question.

It's hard not to look at voting trends, and start thinking, "Hmm, this guy is getting momentum, perhaps I should save my last vote for him ....". With only five votes, you get tempted to "budget" them, or look at how others are voting.

This process definitely helps me get inside the heads of the Cooperstown voters.

[whitecapwendy]

Wow, Donnie Bush placed 3rd in MVP voting in 1914, despite very ordinary looking offensive stats. He must have done backflips with a pike thrown in, before throwing to first for the out !! :cheeky:

Bush had 1242 runs scored as a Tiger, and led the league in walks five times. That cinches it for me, along with his high OBP and steals.
Yeah, when I saw those 3 MVPs, I noticed he was amazing at taking walks. Patience and power, can't argue with that, but I stilll plan on studying him and a couple others that somewhat caught my eye.

[estrepe1]

Bush had patience but he certainly didn't have any power.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Donie was only 5' 6", so he definitely had to use what he had, small size, to his advantage. He excelled at the small-ball stuff, which was more important before 1920. Even the best sluggers like Crawford had to settle for more triples than homers.

I also like Barrett for his high OBP's.

[whitecapwendy]

Okay, I think I have made up my mind on my votes. Now I am going to listen for the next few days and see if anyone changes my mind about any of my choices. I have done my lobbying for one I feel strongly about. Gentleman, start your lobbying. I am all ears. (primarily on carry overs--that is where I am most easily swayed.) Yoop, I think you and I are leaning the same way on carryovers. For a fifth, I am leaning toward Summers. I was disappointed that he did not make it in the first round.

[tiger337]

I deleted several of my posts because they were getting in the way but I wanted to restate that Donie Bush was not very similar to Ozzie Smith. Smith was perhaps the best fielder in the history of the game. Bush was a solid fielder early in his career but did not learn how to turn double plays when they became popular later in his career. I will consider him for his longevity, his walks and his early career defensive success but he is no Ozzie Smith.

[DTroppens]

I really think there's room for the Tigers best pre-1907-1909 player as well. Barrett will still get heavy consideration on my ballot.

[estrepe1]

This ballot is fairly weak.... the 1930 ballot is stacked. Just looking through some of the names that retired in the 1925-1930 range it is clear that it might be tough for some of the holdovers to stay on the ballot if it wasn't based on averages.

[tiger337]

I really think there's room for the Tigers best pre-1907-1909 player as well. Barrett will still get heavy consideration on my ballot.

Barrett and Killian may be my two favorite holdovers.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Looks like I have three votes to distribute among:
Killian, Coveleski, Barrett, and Siever

[DaYooperASBDT]

Found some cool photos of the Fox Theatre, which
was the pride of Detroit in the 1920's. Looks like the
perfect venue for annoucing our election results! :cheeky:

http://www.authentichistory.com/images/1920s/1920s_gen/movie_palace_fox_02.jpg

http://www.authentichistory.com/images/1920s/1920s_gen/movie_palace_fox_01.jpg

http://www.authentichistory.com/images/1920s/1920s_gen/movie_palace_fox_03.jpg

[DaYooperASBDT]

Topper Rigney had some very nice numbers. He's getting crowded by previous candidates though. Right now he appears to be the third best player of the 1925 group.

[DTroppens]

This was clearly the easiest ballot I've done. I'm in.

[dt35456884]

I'm really hoping some of the carryover nominees make it over the hump this week. Coveleski has legit credentials and was only three votes away last time. Killian's candidacy is gaining serious momentum, and Siever (one of my favorites) is showing signs of life. But the 1930 class boasts an embarassment of riches. It's not only supremely talented but deep as well, with five or six legitimate HOF candidates. And even though some of our current carryovers will survive into the '35 elections and beyond, they'll be faced with the prospect of competing for votes in a pool of carryover nominees that will become increasingly deeper and more talented.

[DTroppens]

I am voting for some carryover people.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Same here, I used 3 votes for them, only 2 for the current class. Crossing my fingers for Coveleski and Killian, as they will be crowded out next time.

Don't forget to vote for Hughie! :cheeky:

[tiger337]

Don't forget about Jimmy Barrett. Some people seem ready to put Mickey Tettleton into the HOF right now but consider that Barrett had more win shares in his 4 full years as a Tiger than Tettleton had in his 4 years as a Tiger:

Barrett 23 22 26 26 Total=99 WS
Tettleton 27 24 24 14 Total=92 WS

Tettleton was a better hitter but Barrett was a much better fielder and had more plate appearances/innings. Neither is a sure thing but I think both deserve equal consideration

[whitecapwendy]

I have actually been ready to cast my ballot since Saturday, but decided to "sleep on it" for a couple nights. Since none of my votes have changed since Saturday afternoon, you can expect a "very wrinkled' ballot to arrive soon, Dtroppens. :)

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'm still supporting Jimmy Barrett as well.

Topper Rigney had a short career, he must have been injured?

[dt35456884]

For a guy who was supposedly so happy go lucky and laid back that Cobb felt the need to artificially stoke him into a rage (with Heilmann's assistance), Bobby Veach in fact looks like a total badass.

http://www.baseballgraphs.com/blog/images/uploads/Veach_Bobby_(Detroit_-_AL).gif

[DTroppens]

Barrett has been on both of my ballots so far. It's fair to say he's probably on it again this time. I really don't care what the count is each time. If I think someone should be on, I'll make that fruitless vote anyway.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I wouldn't say fruitless, as there may be more room for Barrett on some ballots, if any voters decide to add him.

My only truly fruitless vote was one I made in the first election, and I only used it then because I didn't use all five votes.

[dt35456884]

Between the three elections, I've already spent 10 votes on 1915 nominees. I still think it's an above average class.

[DaYooperASBDT]

The pitching was really good in that 1915 class, shame most of those guys had such short careers.

We had some "wiggle room" for re-voting guys, but sounds like that will change with the 1930 class.

[redshark63]

BUMP.

2 more days to vote.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'm glad we decided to tackle doing one vote per week. I would go crazy waiting two weeks! The waiting is the hardest part, as Tom Petty used to say ......

[DTroppens]

I am tabulating votes. These are the people who I have as voting
estrepe
buddha
edman
dayooper
dt35456884
LJK004
tiger337
redshark
cruzer
whitecap wendy
squid
clint d
johnny mac
davidsb
justsomedude
dr detroit
oblong
lionstigersand...
mudman
nate
dtroppens
billfer
tigercub33

If you are missing and think you sent your PM, please do so again. All voters have until 11:59 p.m. tonight.

[tiger337]

8 people missing. I hope we pick up most of those today.

[DTroppens]

We haven't had an election that everyone has voted in. I'm guessing we'll get four more total not on this list. We have two more already. A few didn't come in until the final hours last week.
I'm guessing it ends up being 25 or 26.

We're not going to chase down people and beg them to vote though. There are a few we probably could take off the list right now.

[Tigercub33]

I just voted - sorry for not doing so sooner

[tiger337]

I don't expect anybody to chase them down. I did contact two people last week because I wanted to make sure they stayed involved but I don't expect you do do that.

[DTroppens]

Tiger337,
I wasn't suggesting you were saying that. Just saying that I want the people who want to vote to vote. That's all.

Tigercub33,
That's no problem. You have until 11:59 p.m. There wasn't any reason to apologize. You made it with plenty of time to spare. Actually last week we had one come in right under the radar. It made it fun because that one actually decided Jennings' outcome.

We've picked up two more so far. I'll post their names.

[DTroppens]

I added up the numbers last night and now the two additional ones. I won't say anything about if it is close or not because that may determine someone's votes, but I will say this. Only one person sof ar has voted for less than four people. The voters are giving candidates a good look and giving the benefit of the doubt over not doing that.

[DaYooperASBDT]

THE DEADLINE COMETH !!! Midnight tonight.

[Oblong]

I'm concerned over my level of excitement in anticipating these results.

[Tigeraholic1]

Just put my votes in, been in LA for work all week.....

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'm concerned over my level of excitement in anticipating these results.Don't think I could describe how excited I get, this is a family forum, right ?? :classic:

[Edman85]

Yeah, with all the votes going around and the strong class in 1930, this is the final shot for a lot of guys. Not to mention the fact that there are likely to be a lot of close calls.

[DTroppens]

The 30 class is a stud class without a doubt.

This just in...
That Cobb guy was pretty good.
You can make an easy case that of 10 nominations, nine should be offensive players with only one legit pitcher. Three have a case going to 12 but they won't get any votes.

[DTroppens]

Oblong,
This is a ton of fun but what is surprising (at least for me) is the responsibility you feel while you make your decisions.

[whitecapwendy]

Oblong,
This is a ton of fun but what is surprising (at least for me) is the responsibility you feel while you make your decisions.
ditto. I am gaining a little more confidence as each class comes along, but appreciate all the crumbs dropped from all of you masters. :classic: (although no Cobb crumbs are necessary :speech:)

[DTroppens]

I purchased a 1927 baseball roll playing game with Cobb with the Athletics. There's a big part of me that wants to forego my other projects and play that one until Cobb "earns" his 4,000th hit. It would be strange playing a game with Cobb not in a Tiger uniform though.

[whitecapwendy]

I got my Ty Cobb scrapbook the other day. I am enjoying flipping through that but am still working my way through The Glory of their Times. I will be reading about Coveleski tonight.

[DTroppens]

The Glory of Their Times is great because there are so many Tigers in it as well.

[whitecapwendy]

The Glory of Their Times is great because there are so many Tigers in it as well.
It is interesting hearing about ballplayers from the perspective of other ball players. I thoroughly enjoyed the stories of Davy Jones about Shaefers antics, and got a real kick out him telling about the ballplayer who had never had a hit deciding to bat from the other side of the plate. He finally hit a grounder but baffled both teams as he ran for all he was worth to third base. These guys saw some really interesting baseball.