Raising the bar: how high is your standard for 2007?

[Domino]

Now that the Tigers have raised the bar, but let everyone down by playing poorly in the World Series and giving it away. Where are your 2007 expectations? What level of accomplishment is required for you to be satisfied about the upcoming 2007 season?

For 2006, before the season started I would have been happy with a winning record and meaningful baseball in August/September. At the All Star Break I revised that given where they were at and said they needed to win the division. They didn't do that, but they did win the pennant so that's an accomplishment that we'll get to hang banner at COPA for which I was thrilled about.

So what about 2007? What is your preseason take on what you'd like to see from this team? Is it realistic to assume they will make the playoffs again and possibly go to the world series?

[wolverinefan]

It's hard to not expect complete greatness.I would probably expect to at least be in playoff contenton come mid-September.

[tigerkid23]

I'd say 90 wins and meaningful games in September.

[whitecapwendy]

I would love to say "win the world series" and will hope to that end, but I expect them to at least make the playoffs.

[DaYooperASBDT]

With the addition of Sheffield, I honestly would be disappointed with anything less than first place. As for the playoffs, anything can happen. Would love that WS title, but I consider that to be gravy.

[tiger337]

I expect them to be in contention for a playoff spot. How far they go depends on injuries and other surprises - both good and bad. I'm not assuming anything. Almost everything went right last year (that can be said about a lot of playoff teams) and that will have to happen again if they are going to be in the playoffs.

[Oblong]

If they can have a season like the 2006 White Sox I'll be content. Not satisfied but it would still mean the Tigers are an elite team and that would mean two years in a row. That's a good sign.

[Cult of Guillen]

I'd like to see them win the division and take their chances in the playoffs. However, that will be a tall order.

[DTroppens]

Really I just want to see a product that cares about how they represent themselves out there. If they do that the Tigers will generally be a quality product in the standings. Kind of like the 1980s. Sure they had some outstanding years, but generally they were a solid organization with some solid players that cared about their profession.

If the Tigers continue that trend they'll have more years like last year occasionally. And really that's all that matters.

[JonBenke]

If they can have a season like the 2006 White Sox I'll be content. Not satisfied but it would still mean the Tigers are an elite team and that would mean two years in a row. That's a good sign.
This is the correct answer, for me.

Just be competitive, that's all .. that's all you can ever ask from a team.

[Charles Liston]

I'm quite prepared to see them not make the playoffs in 2007 because I'm not expecting another 70-30 start or whatever it was. But starting in 2008,the Maybin/Verlander/Zumaya/Miller/Bonderman/Granderson era, I'm expecting 5 years of dominance.

You could ruin this for me by pointing out that I only mentioned pitchers and outfielders, and that the truly dynastic teams had stars at the catcher, short and second positions. And you could just bite me.

[tiger337]

If they can have a season like the 2006 White Sox I'll be content. Not satisfied but it would still mean the Tigers are an elite team and that would mean two years in a row. That's a good sign.

I would be happy with that too. They don't have to make the playoffs but I want them to be in the race.

[chasfh]

I've come around to the idea that the season is a better indicator of the value of a team than the playoffs. Was I disappointed by the WS loss? Sure -- after all, I had to watch the Cards win the Series live in St. Louis. But I'm not crushed as I might have been even a few years ago. The Tigers had a tremendous, magical season, the sweetest of surprises, and to me, that was the joy of 2006.

As for 2007, I agree that a 90-win season would be beautiful, even if we don't make the playoffs. It would cement us as a perennial contender to be taken seriously, and really, that's all we can ask.

What do I think will happen? If the season started today, I would target us for 84-86 wins. One thing that will help us is the White Sox appearing to take a step backwards in their rotation, without making significant improvements elsewhere. It's only 12/29, though -- ask me again on April Fools' Day.

[monkeytargets37]

All I expect out of the Tigers is for them to play 162 (or more) games, and for me to be able to enjoy them.

[dt35456884]

My expectations are 85 wins. That would probably put us somewhere in the thick of things with a couple months left in the season. I couldn't be disappointed about that. The main thing is, Detroit has a good baseball team again, which is wonderful. I'm not going to be waiting for a pennant every season. Although I suspect this will be the best team in the division if our guys stay healthy again.

One thing I'd really like to see next year is for the farm system to take the next step. The depth of talent still isn't good. In addition to our two elite prospects having success, I hope we have a nice crop of guys start to step up.

[tiger337]

As for 2007, I agree that a 90-win season would be beautiful, even if we don't make the playoffs. It would cement us as a perennial contender to be taken seriously, and really, that's all we can ask.



My ultimate goal for them is to be a perennial contender. To me, that is the true measure of success. If they can do that, they will get their share of post-season opportunities as well.

[Yoda]

I have no bar whatsoever. Im a baseball fan whether they suck or do guy. Just provide a good amount of entertainment and I'm happy. I'm easyto please.

[markmeista]

I have no bar whatsoever. Im a baseball fan whether they suck or do guy. Just provide a good amount of entertainment and I'm happy. I'm easyto please.

Here's a toast to your post. I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, maybe, I could have, because there's a typo. :laugh:

[macedonian bengal]

I don't think the tigers will be able to replicate their dominance and magic of 2006, but I do believe, if healthy, they will be a very formidable team and if they don't make the playoffs, they'll be in 2nd or 3rd place in the AL Central.
I don't expect another 2006, there are too many questions to be revealed to really say they are a contender after just one season of glory, but if their pitching is any indication, they will be a good team at the least. The tigers are not a fluke, at least most of them aren't. Thank you DD for bringing the mania back to the mototr city.

[tigermojo]

I'd like to see them continue to embrace Leyland's play nine innings mantra. I couldn't stop watching games until the last out was recorded because you never knew what might happen. I hope they can recapture some of that '06 magic and give us a good chance at the playoffs next season.

[kwales]

I have no bar whatsoever. Im a baseball fan whether they suck or do guy. Just provide a good amount of entertainment and I'm happy. I'm easyto please.

You said perfectly what I feel every year.

I'm simply anxious for the season to begin and to enjoy baseball once again.

[One Man's Fool]

All I expect out of the Tigers is for them to play 162 (or more) games, and for me to be able to enjoy them.

This is the correct answer.

[84 Lives!!!]

World Series or

BUST !!!

:grin:

[whitecapwendy]

I'd like to see them continue to embrace Leyland's play nine innings mantra. I couldn't stop watching games until the last out was recorded because you never knew what might happen. I hope they can recapture some of that '06 magic and give us a good chance at the playoffs next season.
I think it will be hard to capture that same magic because part of that magic was that we neither expected it nor saw it coming. We were looking for maybe a .500 season and watched in awe as one team member after another stepped up to be a hero (Chris Shelton first).
I agree. I hope they continue to play all nine innings.

[Big Toe]

I'd say 90 wins and meaningful games in September.

I couldn't complain about a season like that. That and development by the younger core players in the majors and minors are pretty much what I'm hoping for out of 2007.

[sabretooth]

While I hate to set expectations without some analysis of what I expect from the players, I'd say that 90 wins and playoff contention would be a very nice bar. Even an 85-win season would be acceptable, provided that the team is playing hard and there are no major injuries to our younger players like Verlander, Bonderman or Zumaya.

Preliminarily, I'm thinking that our starting pitchers are probably going to let up another 40-50 runs, due to Verlander, Robertson and Rogers coming back to Earth in terms of their peripherals and ERA. Our bullpen probably won't be quite as strong, but I don't expect the bullpen to be significantly worse.

IMO, runs allowed will probably be in the low 700's instead of the mid-600's, lowering our win total from 95 to 90 or so. Our offense should probably be about the same, good enough for 820-850 runs, although this hinges on the health of Magglio, Guillen, and Sheffield.

If Leyland refuses to play Shelton regularly, and if he and Thames are reverted back to end-of-the-bench status due to beginning the 2007 season with Sheffield at DH and Casey at First Base, I could see both Shelton and Thames having 150 inconsistent at-bats and very poor production, possibly being off the team by the ASB altogether. Shelton and Thames are guys that need to play regularly to hit well, IMO. They are power hitters who need to keep their timing and confidence.

An injury to Casey or Sheffield would change the calculus for Thames and Shelton, of course. An injury to Sheffield would be bad, but not surprising, of course. In Casey's instance, while I certainly don't hope for him or anyone else to be injured, I suspect that an injury to Casey would be at least a little beneficial by giving superior hitters more at-bats (Shelton and Thames).

[cruzer1]

I don't look at just the parent club, but the organization as a whole. Could use a good draft, especially with the great talent available this year.

[IdahoBert]

90 wins is always the sign of good team. They should be able to do this.

[monkeynuts]

I guess I'll take a more hardline approach...I'll consider the season a failure unless they make the playoffs.

[Yoda]

I guess they just haven't been good long enough for me to get too upset about anything yet. I just don't want to see a horrible team anymore. It's going to be a very tough division so I'm not going to set my sights too high yet. I just want to see them playing well, I want to see guys like Maybin and Miller excel, and I'll be happy. Making the playoffs is always hard to do, even if you are a good team. Especially in baseball.

[tiger337]

Making the playoffs is always hard to do, even if you are a good team. Especially in baseball.

This is one of the things I like about baseball. The whole regular season is meaningful.

[IdahoBert]

I guess they just haven't been good long enough for me to get too upset about anything yet. I just don't want to see a horrible team anymore. It's going to be a very tough division so I'm not going to set my sights too high yet. I just want to see them playing well, I want to see guys like Maybin and Miller excel, and I'll be happy. Making the playoffs is always hard to do, even if you are a good team. Especially in baseball.MVP quality post. I want to be good for a long time and good is good enough. We may even be better than last year and not get as far. That unpredictablity is one of the things that makes baseball great.

[EppOnite]

Ok first of all, I too am thinking play-off contention at the very least.

But not to ruin everyones party here with all the high expectations, but just one year ago this was the biggest question mark team in the league. Obviously a few of those question marks are gone for now as we seen that the young pitching Was good enough and Granderson Can be an everyday centerfielder.

But Maggs and Guillen are still injury prone, Jones and Rogers are 50 years old, and Sheffield are new best hitter is comming off a year where he played 39 games. And who knows how Verlander will hold up after throwing so many innings last year.

Of course injuries play a huge role on any teams success, but this Tigers team health is still a Major issue.

[eastside billee]

I'd love to see more miracles!

[keglerv]

Like many have said, I expect the team to play hard and be very competitive at the very least. I feel that the White Sox have taken a step back, The Twins missing Liriano, and a still suspect Indians bullpen that the Tigers should be considered the preseason favorite in a very tough division and I am looming forward for the next ride to begin.

[BiggieG]

With their pitching, they should be consistent contenders for the next few years anyway. At least there is more than a hope & prayer in Tigertown once again. Last year reminded me a lot of 1968. Hopefully this year some of the kids can continue to establish themselves.

[thewave84]

Well, they won 95 games last year so I'm looking for 96 this year. That would almost certainly get them into the playoffs and from that point onward it is a crapshoot.

[mckibbka]

I'm expecting about 87-90 wins and we'll just have to see where that takes us as far as playoffs are concerned.

[DET Mr Malefic]

If they can have a season like the 2006 White Sox I'll be content. Not satisfied but it would still mean the Tigers are an elite team and that would mean two years in a row. That's a good sign.

I agree with this in its entirety.


I've come around to the idea that the season is a better indicator of the value of a team than the playoffs. Was I disappointed by the WS loss? Sure -- after all, I had to watch the Cards win the Series live in St. Louis. But I'm not crushed as I might have been even a few years ago. The Tigers had a tremendous, magical season, the sweetest of surprises, and to me, that was the joy of 2006.

I agree with this too, only I watched the Cards win Game 4 on the Granderson fall game live, not the series finale. Other than that small detail, I agree with this in its entirety.

I guess they just haven't been good long enough for me to get too upset about anything yet. I just don't want to see a horrible team anymore. It's going to be a very tough division so I'm not going to set my sights too high yet. I just want to see them playing well, I want to see guys like Maybin and Miller excel, and I'll be happy. Making the playoffs is always hard to do, even if you are a good team. Especially in baseball.

And I agree with this.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I'm not seeing a backslide, as many have forecasted for this club. I see Guillen/Ordonez/Pudge looking healthier each year, if anything. And the pitching staff from last year is basically intact. Looking at the other lineup spots:

1B - Not very good, but wasn't very good last year

2B - Polanco can't get any worse, so probably will improve

3B - Inge could backslide, but I'm calling for a Crede-like breakout. Hopefully I don't jinx him like I did with Pena. :paranoid:

CF - Granderson should improve, especially if not over-used like he was at times last year.

LF - This is the biggest wild-card, IMHO. If Monroe and Thames falter, I would try to trade for a lefty batter here.

DH - Sheffield is a big upgrade. And he should stay fairly healthy if kept off the turf OF's

My gut feeling is 98 wins, good for first place.

[whitecapwendy]

I'm not seeing a backslide, as many have forecasted for this club. I see Guillen/Ordonez/Pudge looking healthier each year, if anything. And the pitching staff from last year is basically intact. Looking at the other lineup spots:

1B - Not very good, but wasn't very good last year

2B - Polanco can't get any worse, so probably will improve

3B - Inge could backslide, but I'm calling for a Crede-like breakout. Hopefully I don't jinx him like I did with Pena. :paranoid:

CF - Granderson should improve, especially if not over-used like he was at times last year.

LF - This is the biggest wild-card, IMHO. If Monroe and Thames falter, I would try to trade for a lefty batter here.

DH - Sheffield is a big upgrade. And he should stay fairly healthy if kept off the turf OF's

My gut feeling is 98 wins, good for first place.
I agree with this, but one of the keys to me last year was the really hot start that Shelton had. I think that was a jump start that sparked the team until that "9 inning" talk. If the team keeps that "never quit" spark through the season like they did in 2006, I think we will have a good season. Hopefully our pitchers arms will once again push the offense into the post season.

[chasfh]

I'm not seeing a backslide, as many have forecasted for this club. I see Guillen/Ordonez/Pudge looking healthier each year, if anything. And the pitching staff from last year is basically intact. Looking at the other lineup spots:

1B - Not very good, but wasn't very good last year

2B - Polanco can't get any worse, so probably will improve

3B - Inge could backslide, but I'm calling for a Crede-like breakout. Hopefully I don't jinx him like I did with Pena. :paranoid:

CF - Granderson should improve, especially if not over-used like he was at times last year.

LF - This is the biggest wild-card, IMHO. If Monroe and Thames falter, I would try to trade for a lefty batter here.

DH - Sheffield is a big upgrade. And he should stay fairly healthy if kept off the turf OF's

My gut feeling is 98 wins, good for first place.

The other side of the coin is pitching/defense. There was an article published recently (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/dips-lips-and-hips/) that attempted to further the discussion on separating the pitcher's performance from his defense. A good defense will save you a lot of hits and a bad defense will cost you hits -- but there is luck involved even beyond that. Even assuming we will get the help from a good defense that we got last year, if the luck evens out for us next year, what can we expect?

Paraphrasing the article itself, the way they tried to figured this out is to take each player’s batted ball line, and based on league averages, convert it into expected singles, doubles, triples, home runs, reaches on error, outs, and ground into double plays. Then they add in the pitcher’s actual walk, strikeout, and hit batter totals, and calculate his expected run average (as opposed to his actual earned run average) using the trendily-bicapitalized BaseRuns formulas (explained here (http://mb9.scout.com/fbaseballfrm8.showMessageRange?start=1&stop=20&topicID=1045.topic)).

Based on this, the news is mixed. We when separate help from defense from luck, we do appear to have been one of the luckier staffs, giving up fewer runs than we would have been expected to given up. The "good" news is that the difference to not appear to be dramatic -- according to the table, it has helped us to the tune of only 11 runs, good for only one win.

When you add defense into the mix, with luck, the staff gave up 85 fewer wins than the pitching itself might have been expected to. That means our defense saved us 74 runs, good for seven wins all by itself.

I do have some questions about how the author arrived at these numbers, and there looks to me like there might be some holes in the figures. (Or probably more likely, I am not clear on how some of the numbers tie out.) I am going to write to the author and see whether he can help me better understand how this system works.

[DaYooperASBDT]

I would question how much of "pitcher luck" to due to defense, and how much is due to stranded baserunners? I did notice, for example, that several of Detroit's starters had low ERA, considering their WHIP?

[Just Some Dude]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061219&content_id=1764377&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnered=rss_mlb

Tigers have new expectations in '07
Detroit will try to prove 2006 World Series berth wasn't a fluke
By Jason Beck / MLB.com

DETROIT -- The Tigers' turnaround made history in 2006. In 2007, the Tigers get to deal with the aftermath.
No matter how many times the Tigers play in October from here, they'll never be able to duplicate the feeling of 2006, when Detroit came out of nowhere to own baseball's best record for most of the regular season and then shockingly win the American League title in October. The surprise factor was the topper for Detroit fans, who hadn't experienced that kind of success since 1984.

With success, however, comes expectations. The Tigers will have higher ones than at any time since the late 1980s.

The team that sent Detroit to the Fall Classic a few months ago is basically the same team that will report to Spring Training in February. The Tigers, in fact, added onto that base by trading for Gary Sheffield and signing Jose Mesa. The young core around which president/general manager Dave Dombrowski based his rebuilding plan a few years ago is still the heart of the club, but it's maturing into what should be its prime seasons.

Craig Monroe, Marcus Thames and Fernando Rodney will all turn 30 years old during Spring Training, followed by Brandon Inge in May, Mike Maroth in August and Nate Robertson in September. Just under half of the current 40-man roster will have turned 30 by the end of the next season, a sign of how veteran this formerly unproven club is becoming.

Instead of figuring out which players can make it in the big leagues, as in previous seasons, the Tigers have transitioned to making sure the guys that have made it will stay in Tigers uniforms for a while. Four-year contracts to Inge and Jeremy Bonderman after the 2006 season were the first steps by Dombrowski towards keeping the team intact, in their cases through 2010. Another debate over a potential multiyear deal looms with shortstop Carlos Guillen, a matter that will carry over into the new year.

The goal in the moves is to keep the Tigers' window of opportunity as long as possible, now that the club has flung it open. Even so, the Tigers will have to avoid the pitfalls that have tripped up so many breakout teams.

Not only has a different team won the World Series each year since the Yankees dynasty of the late '90s, but no team has so much as returned to the World Series in back-to-back years since 2001. For teams that seemingly came out of nowhere to get there, such as the 2003 Marlins or 2002 Angels, simply getting back to the playoffs was too much of a challenge.

History shows that teams that make a huge improvement from one year to the next usually suffer a fallback season -- still a good year, but not quite as great as the previous one. That's what the Tigers are facing after their 25-win jump up the standings, but they believe they have the stability and pitching to overcome it.

Season in Preview
A lot can change by Opening Day, but as 2006 becomes 2007, this is who is projected to take the field for the Tigers:
CF Curtis Granderson
2B Placido Polanco
SS Carlos Guillen
DH Gary Sheffield
RF Magglio Ordonez
1B Sean Casey
C Ivan Rodriguez
LF Craig Monroe
3B Brandon Inge
SP Kenny Rogers
SP Jeremy Bonderman
SP Nate Robertson
SP Mike Maroth
SP Justin Verlander
CL Todd Jones

Detroit's chances of contending again rest on much the same strengths that took them this far. With the White Sox trading Freddy Garcia and the Twins losing Brad Radke to retirement and Francisco Liriano to surgery, the Tigers enter 2007 with a good argument for the best top-to-bottom rotation in the division. Even with Kenny Rogers trying to defy age and star again at age 42, the Tigers have Bonderman, Robertson and Justin Verlander all on the rise after breakout seasons in 2006.

Just as important, they have a manager in Jim Leyland who promises to be even tougher on his team this spring than he was when he was establishing his system last year. Leyland knows something about fallback seasons, having seen it in Pittsburgh in 1989 in between the Pirates' breakout in 1988 and their run of three straight NL East titles that started in 1990.

"If you get too cool and too relaxed and too blase about what we've done and who we are, that's not what the Tigers are all about," Leyland said during the Winter Meetings. "We're about, 'It's over with. This is what we did.' We celebrated. The celebration is over, now it's time to go back.

"The one thing we've got going for us, which I really like, is we've got some players coming up on that time in their career where they got a chance to get their pot of gold, and I love stuff like that because they're going to be hungry if they're smart."

Hunger alone won't be enough to win the AL Central, but it'll be a way to deal with the expectations. What happens from there will come down to whether Detroit's pitching can repeat its breakout performances, and whether Sheffield can further ignite the Tigers' offense behind them.

Offseason report card: Without a long wish list, Dombrowski enjoyed his most efficient offseason since coming to Detroit in 2001, taking care of his team's biggest need two weeks after the World Series by trading for Sheffield and promptly re-signing Sean Casey before free-agent contracts escalated around the league.

Arrivals: OF Sheffield (trade with Yankees), RHP Mesa (free agent), LHP Edward Campusano (Rule 5 Draft)

Departures: LHP Jamie Walker (free agent)

The road ahead: The Tigers could use a veteran left-handed reliever to replace Walker, but as the market shakes out, it looks more likely that they'll head into camp trying to complement Wilfredo Ledezma with either Campusano or a Minor League free agent. They could still trade for a left-handed hitter off the bench, using Thames or Omar Infante as the offering.


Jason Beck is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[tiger337]

The other side of the coin is pitching/defense. There was an article published recently (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/dips-lips-and-hips/) that attempted to further the discussion on separating the pitcher's performance from his defense. A good defense will save you a lot of hits and a bad defense will cost you hits -- but there is luck involved even beyond that. Even assuming we will get the help from a good defense that we got last year, if the luck evens out for us next year, what can we expect?

Paraphrasing the article itself, the way they tried to figured this out is to take each player’s batted ball line, and based on league averages, convert it into expected singles, doubles, triples, home runs, reaches on error, outs, and ground into double plays. Then they add in the pitcher’s actual walk, strikeout, and hit batter totals, and calculate his expected run average (as opposed to his actual earned run average) using the trendily-bicapitalized BaseRuns formulas (explained here (http://mb9.scout.com/fbaseballfrm8.showMessageRange?start=1&stop=20&topicID=1045.topic)).

Based on this, the news is mixed. We when separate help from defense from luck, we do appear to have been one of the luckier staffs, giving up fewer runs than we would have been expected to given up. The "good" news is that the difference to not appear to be dramatic -- according to the table, it has helped us to the tune of only 11 runs, good for only one win.

When you add defense into the mix, with luck, the staff gave up 85 fewer wins than the pitching itself might have been expected to. That means our defense saved us 74 runs, good for seven wins all by itself.

I do have some questions about how the author arrived at these numbers, and there looks to me like there might be some holes in the figures. (Or probably more likely, I am not clear on how some of the numbers tie out.) I am going to write to the author and see whether he can help me better understand how this system works.


I would like to learn more too. I'm not convinced that he has separated defense from luck. I also am skeptical of the use of regression based on one year of data. To his credit, he also questions this in the article. The same set of coefficients (derived specifically for this one year of data) is not likely to produce as high a correlation in another year. If he uses the same coefficients next year, will DIPS 3 still be that much better than FIPS? Or will he have to recreate the coefficients based on 2007 data?

[tiger337]

I would question how much of "pitcher luck" to due to defense, and how much is due to stranded baserunners? I did notice, for example, that several of Detroit's starters had low ERA, considering their WHIP?

The LOB percentages are in the last column of:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=pitching&league_filter[0]=1&orderBy=lobPcnt&direction=DESC&page=1

Verlander was #2 in the league and Robertson #4. Rogers was #10 and Bonderman #25. It was easy for us to rationalize during the season that Verlander and Robertson stranded base runners because they turned it up a notch when runners were on base. However, LOB% is not typically repeatable from year to year. More accurately, good pitchers will consistently strand more base runners because they are hard to hit in all situations. However, a pitcher with average stats every year is not going to consistently have a high LOB% every year just because of some special ability to pitch well with runners on base.

Verlander is a particular concern and not just because of his jump in IP and his tired arm. None of his defensive independent stats were especially good last year. He was average to below average in ground ball %, strike outs per game and walks per game. He will need to improve in those areas if he he is going to keep is ERA down again next year. i'm confident that he will evenetually (maybe next year) but I think he was pretty fortunate in 2006.

[HeyAbbott]

My expectations are for the Tigers to win 90 games and score 20 more runs than last year. I think that is about what it will rake because I would think that our runs allowed number this year will go up by 30 to 35 runs.

[zachcadillac]

I'll be satisfied if they contend again, avoid major injuries, and continue to grow the farm system. I'd love to return to the Series and win it this time, but that's farther down on my list of priorities.

[Casimir]

I've come around to the idea that the season is a better indicator of the value of a team than the playoffs. Was I disappointed by the WS loss? Sure -- after all, I had to watch the Cards win the Series live in St. Louis. But I'm not crushed as I might have been even a few years ago. The Tigers had a tremendous, magical season, the sweetest of surprises, and to me, that was the joy of 2006.

The season that they had for the first 162 games (heck, the first 170 games) far outweighs the last 5 games. Granted, the champion was crowned based upon that last 5 games, but if you look over the entire season, regular and post, who was really the better team?

My ultimate goal for them is to be a perennial contender. To me, that is the true measure of success. If they can do that, they will get their share of post-season opportunities as well.

Atlanta catches a lot of grief for winning only 1 WS during its recent run of postseason appearances. But they had to be damn good for an extended period in order to acheive such "ineptitude". I'd be quite happy with such a regular season run.

I'll be satisfied if they contend again, avoid major injuries, and continue to grow the farm system. I'd love to return to the Series and win it this time, but that's farther down on my list of priorities.

This is my hope for next season as well. Hopefully we can identify some more position players to bank the future upon. Hopefully the core future keeps up its progression and any setbacks are simply minor and nothing more than normal growing pains. If it gets to the trade deadline and it looks like making the playoffs are an iffy proposition, I'd be fine with trading off the current for the future, although I wouldn't be surprised if it drew a lot of angst among the fans.

[chasfh]

The season that they had for the first 162 games (heck, the first 170 games) far outweighs the last 5 games. Granted, the champion was crowned based upon that last 5 games, but if you look over the entire season, regular and post, who was really the better team?

It was rather amusing at Game 5 iteself -- while the celebration was going on, the scoreboard flashed a message that said, in effect: "2006 World Series Champions! The Best Team in Baseball!" I had to laugh, of course, because it was surely not true, and you can't blame them for getting caught up in the moment. But even now, do Cardinals fans generally believe that overall, the Cardinals were genuinely a better team than the Tigers? I'm just wondering.

Atlanta catches a lot of grief for winning only 1 WS during its recent run of postseason appearances. But they had to be damn good for an extended period in order to acheive such "ineptitude". I'd be quite happy with such a regular season run.

This raises what I think is an interesting question. Looking at the last 16 years, from a fan's standpoint, who do you think had it better: The Atlanta Braves, with 14 postseason appearances, five World Series appearances, but only one WS championship? Or the Toronto Blue Jays, with two playoff appearances, but two WS championships? Which would you rather have?

[FloridaTigers]

90-92 Wins is the minimal for me. Anything less will be a disappointment

[FloridaTigers]

It was rather amusing at Game 5 iteself -- while the celebration was going on, the scoreboard flashed a message that said, in effect: "2006 World Series Champions! The Best Team in Baseball!" I had to laugh, of course, because it was surely not true, and you can't blame them for getting caught up in the moment. But even now, do Cardinals fans generally believe that overall, the Cardinals were genuinely a better team than the Tigers? I'm just wondering.



This raises what I think is an interesting question. Looking at the last 16 years, from a fan's standpoint, who do you think had it better: The Atlanta Braves, with 14 postseason appearances, five World Series appearances, but only one WS championship? Or the Toronto Blue Jays, with two playoff appearances, but two WS championships? Which would you rather have?

Honestly, the latter. One win isn't worth the other four heart aches. I'd rather win two in a row, and sit back for a while, knowing it was all good.

[Casimir]

It was rather amusing at Game 5 iteself -- while the celebration was going on, the scoreboard flashed a message that said, in effect: "2006 World Series Champions! The Best Team in Baseball!" I had to laugh, of course, because it was surely not true, and you can't blame them for getting caught up in the moment. But even now, do Cardinals fans generally believe that overall, the Cardinals were genuinely a better team than the Tigers? I'm just wondering?

Its a legit question to ask. I'm not (and I'm sure you're not) trying to downplay what winning the World Series gets you. The winner is crowned as the champion, no questions asked. And I'm not trying to downplay what the Cards did. They made the playoffs and won each playoff series they were in, that's what the recipe for the WS champion is. The fact of the matter is, from April through league championship series, the Tigers were the better team, including a 3-0 regular season sweep of the red birds. Timing just wasn't on the side of the Tigers, and kudos to the Cards for taking full advantage of it.

This raises what I think is an interesting question. Looking at the last 16 years, from a fan's standpoint, who do you think had it better: The Atlanta Braves, with 14 postseason appearances, five World Series appearances, but only one WS championship? Or the Toronto Blue Jays, with two playoff appearances, but two WS championships? Which would you rather have?

I'll take the playoff appearances knowing that what happens in the playoffs is simply a crapshoot. I know some people think that's loony, but if you honestly believe that over that 14 year stretch the Blue Jays were better than the Braves because they won an additional WS title, I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[tiger337]

This raises what I think is an interesting question. Looking at the last 16 years, from a fan's standpoint, who do you think had it better: The Atlanta Braves, with 14 postseason appearances, five World Series appearances, but only one WS championship? Or the Toronto Blue Jays, with two playoff appearances, but two WS championships? Which would you rather have?

I'd definitely take the Braves and it's not even close. First, what they did is a much more impressive accomplishment. Second, 15 straight playoffs appearances means 15 straight fun seasons even if the last few days of the season are frustrating.

[DaYooperASBDT]

Same here. The beauty of baseball is the long regular season, and the pursuit of first place over 162 games. Anything you do in the playoffs is gravy. Nobody will ever match the Yankees' number of WS titles, so there is really nothing to shoot for there. But yes, the Tigers are certainly due.

[estrepe1]

I'll be satisfied if they contend again, avoid major injuries, and continue to grow the farm system. I'd love to return to the Series and win it this time, but that's farther down on my list of priorities.

I am with you. These are in line with my expectations for this season.

This raises what I think is an interesting question. Looking at the last 16 years, from a fan's standpoint, who do you think had it better: The Atlanta Braves, with 14 postseason appearances, five World Series appearances, but only one WS championship? Or the Toronto Blue Jays, with two playoff appearances, but two WS championships? Which would you rather have?

Definitely the Braves for me. Success during the season is more important to me than success in the postseason despite what the media says.

[Canon Fodder]

Braves, Braves, Braves. Especially if the Tigers can build around a young corps like Glavine-Smoltz-Maddux. (Yeah, I know Maddux was an import but his best years were still to come.) Seeing Bonderman-Verlander-??? dominate for years would be a treat.

Frankly, I think the Tigers could quite possibly emulate the Braves and become a power similar to the Red Wings. Without a salary cap, there's no reason to think the Tigers would ever lose a player they really wanted to keep. Though many still consider the Tigers to be a lousy team to play for (think Dead Wings circa '83), I'll bet the Tigers organization can (and will) become a hot-spot for free-agents much like it had for the Red Wings. Newer park. Excellent tradition. Rabid fanbase. An owner willing to open up the wallet.

[Tyrus]

Every season, I always say my only expectations are that the team play hard, and get the most out of the players' talents.

But I'd be lying if I didn't say expectations are a bit more than that for the 2007 season.

I wouldn't be satisfied, for instance, with merely an above-.500 season, as I would've been going into last year. But I think it's too much to expect another World Series berth (although we're all certainly hoping for exactly that).

As others have said, if the Tigers can play 9 hard innings/162 hard games, and play meaningful games in September -- while seeing growth from the likes of Maybin and Miller -- then I'll call that a good season. Anything under 85 wins would be a letdown.