View Full Version : Ivan and Kenny
estrepe1
11-02-2006, 05:05 PM
Congrats to these two guys taking home the Gold Gloves for their respective positions.
estrepe1
11-02-2006, 05:07 PM
Gold Gloves for Rogers-Pudge battery
Lefty wins fifth; Rodriguez extends catchers record with No. 12
By Jason Beck / MLB.com
The team that made pitchers' fielding practice a household term in the World Series last week ended up with a Gold Glove Award-winning battery.
The team that once led the American League in errors for three straight seasons until 2005 now has a pair of Gold Gloves. Pitcher Kenny Rogers and catcher Ivan Rodriguez continued their track record of awards at their respective positions and teamed up for a historic milestone for the Tigers, who on Thursday secured multiple Gold Glove Award winners for the first time since 1988. No other team in the AL ended up with more than one winner this year.
While few imagined Rogers could have the 17-win season he enjoyed this year at age 41, his fielding acumen was well-known. He has now won the AL's Gold Glove Award for pitchers three years running and five times over the last seven seasons. A shortstop and outfielder in high school who didn't try pitching until the days leading up to the 1982 amateur draft, Rogers makes as many diving attempts for ground balls as any middle infielder while he's on the mound, and he considers any ball up the middle as his duty to at least try to grab.
He takes fielding seriously enough that other Tigers pitchers took notice as far back as Spring Training.
"Just watching him field his position in Spring Training, it's unbelievable," Mike Maroth said earlier this year. "Any ball up the middle, you think, 'Uh oh. I've got to get it.' There's a lot of balls I should be able to get to, especially watching him."
Only New York's Chien-Ming Wang and Cleveland's Jake Westbrook had more total chances and assists among AL pitchers than Rogers, whose five errors also led AL hurlers.
Even when Rogers can't take away base hits, he has a better chance than most of removing the runner from first base. His pickoff move was selected as best in the AL by Baseball America, even though he caught just two baserunners with it this season, a sign that baserunners respect it, too. Opponents stole just one base in seven tries against him all year, best among AL pitchers with at least 162 innings pitched this season.
Part of that last honor understandably goes to Rodriguez, who reclaimed the Gold Glove honor he probably deserved last year before falling in voting to Boston's Jason Varitek. Detroit's resurgence in the standings and on national television put Pudge's defensive skills back in the spotlight. He threw out a Major League-best 45.7 percent (21-for-46) of would-be basestealers this season, including a nearly two-month span around midseason without allowing a stolen base.
Rodriguez's defensive prowess wasn't just when runners were going. His two errors behind the plate were the fewest by any catcher in the league with at least 100 games played this season, resulting in an AL-best .998 fielding percentage.
Rodriguez's 12th career Gold Glove Award extends his career record for catchers, moving him two ahead of Johnny Bench. Only Hall of Famers Brooks Robinson and Ozzie Smith own more career Gold Gloves at a position other than pitcher.
The last batterymates to win Gold Glove Awards in the same season were Rogers and Rodriguez, back when they were Texas Rangers in 2000. No other pair has done it since then-Royals Bret Saberhagen and Bob Boone in 1989.
While Gold Glove catchers are nothing new in Detroit -- Lance Parrish and Bill Freehan once strung together awards before Rodriguez was in the Majors -- pitchers with the honor are relatively rare. The only Tigers hurler to win a Gold Glove Award since its inception in 1957 was Frank Lary back in 1961.
Jason Beck is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
Other GG winners:
2006 AL GOLD GLOVE WINNERS
Name No.
2006 AL GOLD GLOVE WINNERS
P Kenny Rogers 5
C Ivan Rodriguez 12
1B Mark Teixeira 2
2B Mark Grudzielanek 1
SS Derek Jeter 3
3B Eric Chavez 6
OF Torii Hunter 6
OF Ichiro Suzuki 6
OF Vernon Wells 3
I am not sure Torii Hunter should win the GG for this year. I felt Sizemore was better.
pfife
11-02-2006, 05:08 PM
nice
jadefalcon
11-02-2006, 05:12 PM
Sizemore was better.
Jeter and Chavez didn't earn them this year. Should've been Alex Gonzalez and Crede.
RedRamage
11-02-2006, 05:14 PM
P Kenny Rogers 5
Totally deserved.
C Ivan Rodriguez 12
Probably got more on rep than reality
1B Mark Teixeira 2
I've heard noting but good about his defense.
2B Mark Grudzielanek 1
Hmm, don't enough to comment.
SS Derek Jeter 3
Definitely got it on name vs. reality
3B Eric Chavez 6
Understandable, but like Pudge, I think's got such a rep now that unless he totally crashes one year he's gonna get it deservedly or not.
OF Torii Hunter 6
More rep than reality
OF Ichiro Suzuki 6
OF Vernon Wells 3
Last two are likely deserved.
tiger337
11-02-2006, 05:14 PM
Rodriguez and Rogers both deserved it. Inge could have won one too but there were a few good 3Bs. Hunter is no longer a gold glover. Jeter never was.
estrepe1
11-02-2006, 05:16 PM
Ivan didn't get it last year because his defense slipped. I think his defense was top notch this year.
pfife
11-02-2006, 05:18 PM
Ivan didn't get it last year because his defense slipped. I think his defense was top notch this year.
highest percentage base stealers caught...
whitecapwendy
11-02-2006, 05:20 PM
I think both deserved it. Pudge was one catcher that few runners would try to steal on.
illmatic774
11-02-2006, 05:27 PM
Chavez and Jeter????!?!?!? You've GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!
Whoever said Crede was spot on.
baseballglove007
11-02-2006, 05:34 PM
It would be nice to get the NL Gold Gloves as well.
chuckles396
11-02-2006, 05:37 PM
I think only the AL will be announced today.
keglerv
11-02-2006, 05:40 PM
Congrats to the Tigers - Boo Hiss to Jeter and Chavez.
Motor City Sonics
11-02-2006, 05:56 PM
ESPN has Kenny Rogers, Texas Rangers. Nice job.
I think Curtis Granderson should have been considered for a Gold Glove. He was great this season.
TigersSlappy
11-02-2006, 06:05 PM
2006 AL GOLD GLOVE WINNERS
P Kenny Rogers 5
C Ivan Rodriguez 12
1B Mark Teixeira 2
2B Mark Grudzielanek 1
SS Derek Jeter 3
3B Eric Chavez 6
OF Torii Hunter 6
OF Ichiro Suzuki 6
OF Vernon Wells 3
=========
I don't see it on this list? ;-)
cruzer1
11-02-2006, 06:07 PM
Chavez winning when he was injured all year playing below average defense, plus Gary Mathews Jr. not winning are total mockeries of the awards.
estrepe1
11-02-2006, 06:11 PM
It would be nice to get the NL Gold Gloves as well.
NL is going to be announced tomorrow at 5 pm.
Microline133
11-02-2006, 06:12 PM
Chavez winning when he was injured all year playing below average defense, plus Gary Mathews Jr. not winning are total mockeries of the awards.
For those two examples to truly be mockeries of the awards, wouldn't the Gold Glove awards have had to carry some semblence of creedance at some point before this?
jadefalcon
11-02-2006, 06:16 PM
ESPN has Kenny Rogers, Texas Rangers. Nice job.
I think Curtis Granderson should have been considered for a Gold Glove. He was great this season.
I think he was considered. You can't ignore what he did this year. However, I wouldn't have given him a GG either. I just think that Ichiro, Wells, and Sizemore were better this year. I also felt that Gary Matthews Jr. was better this year too, and I'm kind of surprised he didn't get one.
Excellent to see the Tigers get recognition, but Inge should of received it for 3rd..I am a homer
cruzer1
11-02-2006, 07:03 PM
For those two examples to truly be mockeries of the awards, wouldn't the Gold Glove awards have had to carry some semblence of creedance at some point before this?
True dat.
T.O. Tiger Fan
11-02-2006, 07:55 PM
But Jeter makes jump throws to 2nd...and he once dove in the stands and cut his chin...if he wasn't the best SS then why is he on TV so much...(heavy sarcasm)
black_sandals
11-02-2006, 08:15 PM
I like ESPN's article on the Gold Gloves.
Joining Rodriguez on the AL list is Tigers batterymate Kenny Rogers, who earned his fifth Gold Glove overall and his third straight.
Detroit pitchers made five errors during the Tigers' five-game loss to the St. Louis Cardinals, four on bad throws and another on a botched comebacker. No other pitching staff had made more than three errors during a Series.
Rogers did not have any fielding fumbles, but he did have a brownish smudge on his pitching hand in the first inning of Game 2. Whether it was dirt, pine tar or something else may never be known -- St. Louis Cardinals manager Tony La Russa never urged umpires to check Rogers' hand and instead merely asked them to make sure whatever it was went away.
The hand was clean when he came out for the second, Rogers went on to pitch shutout ball through the eighth and Detroit won 3-1 -- its only victory of the Series. Rogers, who pitched 23 scoreless innings in the postseason, was poised to start Game 6 but Detroit lost to the Cardinals in five games.
Yeah, that's really relevent to the article.
tiger337
11-02-2006, 08:44 PM
Here is what Chris Dial (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_gold_glove_winners_as_i_see_it/) at Baseball Think Factory says about the Gold Glove awards:
(the lists don't format too well but what really matters is the order in which the players are listed. Lots of Tigers at the top)
2006 American League Gold Glove Winners - As I see it
Defensive data has been and is being refined pretty well these days. With more and more play-by-play data making it to the mainstream, all of us are stretching the boundaries of what we require from black-box analysts. With the exception of some park factors, we are discovering that Zone Rating provides a pretty good picture of defense. Taking the zone rating and accounting for league averages, based on tens of thousands of defensive innings played, we can closely assess the number of runs saved by a defensive players as compared to his peers.
To be sure, even this data could be refined to account for parks better - Fenway's Green Monster is a tremendous issue - and handedness of batters - NOT handedness of pitchers - to tune the picture a bit better, but the data you will read will be very close to any refined data. Very close. The basic methodology for this work is here.
I have tweaked this for chances per inning from the original data, so the chances assumed here may be slightly higher/lower, but if you did the same work from the referenced article, you'd find your results would be within a run or two of what I post. And really, the most important thing I do here is provide you with the tools to evaluate defense on your own, without me doing the math. Please note, after this article, I will post some others' work that even refines what I have done, with a comparison to what I have done. It should be exciting for you - it is for me. Most importantly, it broadens the network of individuals accurately creating the defensive evaluations, as well as allows for everyday updates. Yes, I said *every day*.
Now on with the show. Here are the leaders and trailers at every position for the American League, with some commentary where necessary. In general I draw the Gold Glove qualification line at a significant number of innings - usually around 650. It would be unusual for someone playing only 650 innings to lead the league in anything, but I'm willing to give it a look.
Catcher
First LastName Team GP INN RSpt RS/150
Ivan Rodriguz Det 123 1054.3 9 11
Ramon Hernandz Bal 135 1094.3 6 8
Joe Mauer Min 120 1059.3 4 5
Jorge Posada NYY 134 1050.3 4 5
Jose Molina LAA 76 603.3 3 7
Kenji Johjima Sea 144 1173.7 2 3
John Buck KC 112 930.3 2 3
Jason Kendall Oak 141 1254.0 2 2
Rod Barajas Tex 94 825.0 1 1
Mike Napoli LAA 94 716.3 0 1
Jason Varitek Bos 99 822.3 -2 -2
A.J. Przynski CWS 132 1125.0 -5 -6
Bengie Molina Tor 99 842.0 -6 -10
Victor Martinez Cle 133 1110.0 -8 -10
Wow, Ivan Rodriguez is the best defensive catcher in the AL. Who knew? Mostly there is very little difference between catchers in preventing runs via CS, PB, WP and E. I-Rod stands out, but mostly, nearly every catcher is the same, give or take a game with a knuckleballer.
First Base
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Chris Shelton Det 115 913.0 12 17
Doug Mntkwicz KC 90 725.7 7 12
Justin Morneau Min 153 1346.3 4 4
Andy Phillips NYY 94 533.0 3 8
Travis Lee TB 112 865.7 3 5
Mark Teixeira Tex 159 1399.0 2 2
Dan Johnson Oak 85 715.7 1 2
Lyle Overbay Tor 145 1233.0 0 0
Kevin Youkilis Bos 127 1030.0 -1 -2
Nick Swisher Oak 90 700.0 -2 -5
Ben Broussrd Cle/Sea 90 642.7 -2 -5
Kevin Millar Bal 98 792.3 -3 -5
Richie Sexson Sea 150 1310.3 -6 -6
Paul Konerko CWS 140 1182.7 -8 -9
Jason Giambi NYY 68 480.0 -8 -23
Shelton only got about 50 more innings as the season drew to a close, but he was outstanding with his glove. These leaders didn't change since August, though. Again, notice there is very little variation between defensive runs. From Morneau to Millar, these guys are about the same. Giambi didn't really qualify for this list, but he was pretty bad, so I thought I'd illustrate his need to DH.
Second Base
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Aaron Hill Tor 112 912.0 16 24
Placido Polanco Det 108 943.0 14 21
Mark Grudzlnk KC 132 1111.0 7 9
Mark Ellis Oak 123 1070.0 7 8
Brian Roberts Bal 137 1168.7 6 7
Jose Lopez Sea 150 1322.0 2 2
TadahitoIguchi CWS 136 1209.3 1 1
RobinsonCano NYY 118 1009.0 1 1
Luis Castillo Min 142 1239.3 -2 -2
Ian Kinsler Tex 119 1032.0 -3 -3
Adam Kennedy LAA 133 1141.7 -6 -7
Mark Loretta Bos 138 1172.0 -6 -7
Ronnie Belliard Cle 91 768.3 -9 -17
Jorge Cantu TB 103 899.7 -22 -33
Aaron Hill? Maybe the turf in Toronto helps, considering Orlando Hudson's slide in Arizona. Placido Polanco - he's good. Well, he has been. Jorge Cantu is the worst fielder in the majors. He's bad all over the field.
Third Base
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Brandon Inge Det 159 1392.0 20 20
Mike Lowell Bos 153 1299.7 14 15
Adrian Beltre Sea 155 1358.0 11 11
Joe Crede CWS 149 1260.0 8 8
Nick Punto Min 89 766.0 8 13
Hank Blalock Tex 122 1063.7 1 1
Eric Chavez Oak 134 1166.7 0 0
Maicer Izturis LAA 87 707.3 -3 -7
Aaron Boone Cle 101 842.0 -4 -7
Melvin Mora Bal 154 1323.0 -4 -5
Troy Glaus Tor 145 1175.0 -7 -8
Mark Teahen KC 109 924.7 -7 -10
Alex Rodriguz NYY 151 1288.7 -8 -8
Over the last two months of the season, the BIP distribution tweaked the third base rankings. A-Rod improved over his last 200 innings and Brandon Inge caught and moved well up on Mike Lowell. Lowell still finished with a fine season, and Adrain Beltre had a great showing. Beltre also hit a little this year, so he may not be the worst signing ever. We'll look at A-Rod as a total package during the MVP discussions.
Shortstop
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Juan Uribe CWS 132 1130.0 14 16
Alex Gonzalez Bos 111 966.3 10 14
Jason Bartlett Min 99 880.7 10 15
Bobby Crosby Oak 95 828.0 7 11
Michael Young Tex 155 1356.3 4 4
Carlos Guillen Det 145 1235.0 2 3
Julio Lugo TB 73 620.3 1 2
John McDonald Tor 90 662.7 1 1
Miguel Tejada Bal 150 1294.7 0 0
Orlando Cabrera LAA 152 1321.7 -3 -3
Jhonny Peralta Cle 147 1275.3 -3 -3
Derek Jeter NYY 150 1292.3 -5 -6
YunieskyBetancourt Sea 157 1374.3 -7 -7
Angel Berroa KC 131 1117.3 -11 -13
White Sox fans have been wanting to see Uribe at the top of the list. He's made it. Derek Jeter, who is a great bet to win the MVP, has seen his defensive numbers slide from the last two seasons. Jeter, while not good, wasn't too bad, and I would describe him as "slightly below average". Only Berroa stands out negatively. Michael Young's defense really jumped from last season. That's odd, but it could be he worked on it.
Left Field
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Emil Brown KC 87 719.3 9 17
Carl Crawford TB 148 1252.3 8 8
Scott Podsednk CWS 135 1087.7 7 9
Reed Johnson Tor 100 635.3 5 11
Raul Ibanez Sea 157 1397.7 4 4
Nick Swisher Oak 79 655.7 4 8
Jason Michaels Cle 117 1009.3 3 5
Craig Monroe Det 113 927.3 1 2
Garret Anderson LAA 94 813.7 -1 -1
Frank Catlnotto Tor 101 760.0 -2 -4
Brad Wilkerson Tex 80 664.3 -5 -9
Melky Cabrera NYY 116 999.7 -6 -9
Manny Ramirez Bos 123 1031.3 -32 -42
This offseason, I am going to try to solve the Fenway park factor. We've seen good new research from other people, and I hope to establish a PF for Manny. The more I read, the more I think Manny may be *average* on defense. I know, I need to give some demonstration for that. Otherwise, it is a tight group. Carl Crawford could get a Gold Glove. Well, he might if they awarded the GGs for each position, rather than "Outfield".
Center Field
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Corey Patterson Bal 134 1079.7 16 20
Vernon Wells Tor 150 1290.3 12 13
Grady Sizemore Cle 160 1379.3 7 6
Curtis Grndersn Det 157 1312.0 5 6
Johnny Damon NYY 131 1087.7 4 5
Brian Anderson CWS 134 966.0 3 5
Chone Figgins LAA 96 829.0 3 5
Rocco Baldelli TB 91 749.3 0 0
Torii Hunter Min 143 1232.3 0 0
Joey Gathright KC/TB 130 1017.7 -2 -3
Mark Kotsay Oak 127 1047.0 -5 -6
Gary Matthews Tex 142 1227.0 -8 -9
Coco Crisp Bos 103 901.7 -8 -13
Corey Patterson in climbing the charts as one of the top defensive CFs over the last 20 years. All of these guys can run down fly balls. Torii Hunter dropped significantly the last two months - was he injured? Could that have led to the ITPHR in the ALDS?
Right Field
First LastName TEAM GP INN RSpt RS/150
Alex Rios Tor 124 953.0 11 16
Milton Bradley Oak 94 803.7 7 12
Ichiro Suzuki Sea 121 1062.7 7 9
Reggie Sanders KC 73 601.0 6 14
Casey Blake Cle 93 814.3 4 7
Damon Hollins TB 78 464.7 3 7
Mark DeRosa Tex 60 512.0 2 6
Trot Nixon Bos 110 891.3 0 1
Nick Markakis Bal 127 917.3 -2 -3
JermaineDye CWS 146 1245.0 -2 -2
Magglio Ordonez Det 148 1268.0 -2 -2
Bobby Abreu NYY 57 447.0 -5 -15
VladimirGuerrero LAA 126 1090.0 -5 -7
Kevin Mench Tex 57 489.7 -6 -16
Bernie Williams NYY 58 425.3 -7 -22
Michael Cuddyer Min 142 1227.3 -7 -8
Alex Rios is a pretty good fielder. However, coupled with his very good defensive work in centerfield, I think Ichiro Suzuki should win the Gold Glove. Pattersona dn Wells should win the other two, but I doubt Patterson will. +/-7 runs is a tight group around average. And again, I added two Yankees to the list that I may not have otehrwise. The Yankees are really struggling in the outfield defensively, and could find that to be a big reason why they couldn't beat the Tigers. My Gold Gloves? Rodriguez, Shelton, Polanco, Inge, Uribe, Crawford, Patterson, Suzuki. That's a bunch of Tigers. Is it really any wonder they led the majors in ERA? It wasn't all the pitching.
ypsieast
11-02-2006, 09:44 PM
Good read, Tiger337. Thanks for sharing. Could you imagine the reaction if Shelton had actually won the GG?
thewave84
11-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Hmm, Pudge is #1, Inge is #1, Shelton is #1, Polanco is #2, and Guillen is a solid SS. I guess the Tigers were pretty good at defense last year.
Shelton - who knew?
tiger337
11-03-2006, 09:35 AM
Good read, Tiger337. Thanks for sharing. Could you imagine the reaction if Shelton had actually won the GG?
I don't know if really deserves the GG but I think he is a good defender. He doesn't look smooth because of his body type but he gets the job done. He's more deserving of a GG than a couple of guys on the real gold glove list.
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