Lolich and Gibson should be honorary team captains for the series.

[rhinocrash]

Even though I don't remember much about the '68 Tigers/Cardinals World Series, I do know that Bob Gibson was the MVP of the National League that year, and Mickey Lolich was the MVP of the Series, after being the first, and only pitcher up until now, to win three games in the W.S. In honor of the rematch of the two franchises after almost 40 years, I think the two teams should make these gentlemen their honorary captains for the Series. Especially when you think about the fact that, after retiring, Lolich stayed in Detroit and has been active in the community, and supportive of the Tigers. This is a very classy act on "The Mick's" part, because, back in 1976, the Tigers wanted to trade him to the Mets for Rusty Staub, but he did not want to go. I remember Jim Campbell bugged the hell out of him to agree to the trade, even calling him at odd hours of the morning, until Lolich finally gave in. He did this after having had roots in Detroit, along with a doughnut business that he still owns and runs. How bout it Motown? In honor of the rematch, lets make these two "Kings of the Hill" the honorary captains of the series.



http://snazel.com/celestial/gibson.jpg


http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/11418.jpg

[JonBenke]

no

[OldTimey]

People should stop insisting on recreating the past and just enjoy one of the best years in Tigers history.

[Oblong]

Exactly. They had their day. Now it's about the '06 Tigers.

I'd make Ozzie Smith and Tram the honorary captains.

But La Russa hates Ozzie and he'd probably have a temper tantrum.

[estrepe1]

Its fun to remember the past, but I think the past is being honored enough with the first pitches though.

Its about this team now and its their time to shine.... They have already written more into the Tigers history. Lets hope they put another notch on their belt.

[OldTimey]

The past gets honored too much in baseball ibn my opinion. It's one of the reasons there is a disconnect with the young fans.

[davidsb]

The past gets honored too much in baseball in my opinion. It's one of the reasons there is a disconnect with the young fans.
worst.post.ever

Baseball past (and present) is what connects everyone together.

[JonBenke]

worst.post.ever

Baseball past (and present) is what connects everyone together.
That's your opinion, bottom line .. for me, I would much rather hear about this team, which is here -- now, not about the organization's past.

Maybe if they did this, they'd learn more about Jason Verlander and Curtis Monroe.

[IdahoBert]

There's nothing wrong with honoring the past. Baseball's history is one of things that is really neat about it. Is this a good way to honor that past? Seems OK to me but it wouldn't kill me if it didn't happen. Plenty of the team's history from '68 and '84 will be honored anyway.

[Truth]

When my father and grandfather took me to my first Tiger game I loved the old stories about the great players they had seen in Tiger Stadium. It's the stuff of dreams to hear about Ted Williams, the Mick, Greenberg, a young Kaline and all the rest. And it's a tradition I kept alive when I took my 8 year old nephew to a game this season by telling him about Gibson, Tram, Sweet Lou, Sparky, etc.. I would much rather see the Tigers pay respect to their own great tradition than parade marginal actors and entertainers out on the field.

[Casimir]

The past gets honored too much in baseball ibn my opinion. It's one of the reasons there is a disconnect with the young fans.

I think a bigger reason for the disconnect is that there are so many other recreational options available, or that they've become more popular for reasons outside of baseball.

Take basketball. Bird, Magic, Jordan et al helped popularize the sport, and now kids are more likely to try to be like Mike as opposed to the next Willie Mays. Basketball wasn't readily available via TV and such until David Stern came along and merchandised and pushed the sport. Plus, you can practice basketball skills with fewer people as opposed to baseball.

[Casimir]

I would much rather see the Tigers pay respect to their own great tradition than parade marginal actors and entertainers out on the field.

Agreed. And I'd rather see shots of Tiger/Cardinal highlights (both past and current season) rather than the parade of FOX actors that we'll see sitting in the stands acting like they're interested in the game.

[OldTimey]

worst.post.ever

Baseball past (and present) is what connects everyone together.

I never said forget the past. I said that it relies too much on its past. There is a big difference.

Right now we have Alex Rodriguez, Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Pedro Martinez, Derek Jeter, Manny Ramirez, Ryan Howard, Johan Santana, Justin Verlander, Joel Zumaya and loads of others playing right in front of our eyes. Baseball needs to be promoting these guys. A good chunk of them sure-fire HOF's and a few of them may be the best ever at their positions. And yet they always want to talk Ted Williams and Honus Wagner. That is a problem to me.

[estrepe1]

Agreed. And I'd rather see shots of Tiger/Cardinal highlights (both past and current season) rather than the parade of FOX actors that we'll see sitting in the stands acting like they're interested in the game.

Oh I hate that...

Plus the more times we get to see Tim McCarver make the final out of a World Series the better.

[JonBenke]

Oh, so actors can't be fans these days ?

I would much rather hear about the stories of how these players, on both sides, got to where they were .. not of how the games played out, back then.

[Todd]

the 68 WS flashback stuff is the reason why i didnt want the Cardinals to win.... can't we build our own history now .... it just seems like everything with the Tigers has to reference someone or something from 1984 or 1968

[Casimir]

Oh, so actors can't be fans these days ?

I would much rather hear about the stories of how these players, on both sides, got to where they were .. not of how the games played out, back then.

They can be. I'm not discounting the fact that they could very well be fans.

But c'mon, you know how they do that. "There's so-and-so enjoying this game 2 if the WS. You can see him/her starring in the new hit show Blah Blah Blah on your local FOX affiliate every Monday at #:00 pm." You know we'll get one of those every freaking inning. Absofreakinglutely annoying.

[OldTimey]

the 68 WS flashback stuff is the reason why i didnt want the Cardinals to win.... can't we build our own history now .... it just seems like everything with the Tigers has to reference someone or something from 1984 or 1968

No. You can only think about Bob Gibson.

[estrepe1]

They can be. I'm not discounting the fact that they could very well be fans.

But c'mon, you know how they do that. "There's so-and-so enjoying this game 2 if the WS. You can see him/her starring in the new hit show Blah Blah Blah on your local FOX affiliate every Monday at #:00 pm." You know we'll get one of those every freaking inning. Absofreakinglutely annoying.

Exactly. I mean I don't blame FOX it is definitely a way to get more people to watch your shows but at the same time it gets annoying after a while.

the 68 WS flashback stuff is the reason why i didnt want the Cardinals to win.... can't we build our own history now .... it just seems like everything with the Tigers has to reference someone or something from 1984 or 1968

It wouldn't have mattered who they faced.

Don't worry if they win they will have created their own history for Tigers baseball.

[holygoat]

I really wanted the Mets to win so we could eliminate all of these silly subplots. I really don't want to hear about how Larussa and Leyland are best of friends every day, either. I think it would be cooler to build new WS memories against a different team.

[Casimir]

I really wanted the Mets to win so we could eliminate all of these silly subplots. I really don't want to hear about how Larussa and Leyland are best of friends every day, either. I think it would be cooler to build new WS memories against a different team.

I kind of wanted to face the Mets for the possibility to stick it to 2 NY teams. Plus you know it'll be a circus about how the Tigers aren't real WS champs if they beat a team that won only 83 times in the regular season.

[djhutch]

IMHO, baseball's past is only pertinent in as much as it brings dads & sons together. Dad talks with his son about the players he watched, & the players his dad used to tell him about.

[Oblong]

When I tell my 6 year old son about guys like Trammell and Parrish I say things like "I watched them just like you watch Pudge and Magglio. They were my favorites". I always try to frame it in his context. I don't say things like "These guys were better".

But you have to emphasize today's stars. The kids don't care about old guys. And they should'nt. That's not the way to make baseball grow.

[BiggieG]

Without the past there would be no future. People will always relish the players and era they grew up in. When you are a kid, you have more time to spend in relishing the game. Baseball cards, TV, Strat-o-Matic, pick-up games in which you got to imitate your favorite players batting stance. I think it would be a great tribute by honoring both the 68 Tigers and Redbirds teams during the series. Knowing the history of the game will only enhance a person's love for it.

[OldTimey]

I'm glad none of you peole have any clue what I actually said. Nice job.

[Oblong]

Does anybody not know about the 68 teams? Kaline and Horton have been out there all over the place.

[Biff Mayhem]

When I tell my 6 year old son about guys like Trammell and Parrish I say things like "I watched them just like you watch Pudge and Magglio. They were my favorites". I always try to frame it in his context. I don't say things like "These guys were better".

But you have to emphasize today's stars. The kids don't care about old guys. And they should'nt. That's not the way to make baseball grow.

Posts like this make Joe Morgan cry.

[Tyrus]

When I tell my 6 year old son about guys like Trammell and Parrish I say things like "I watched them just like you watch Pudge and Magglio. They were my favorites". I always try to frame it in his context. I don't say things like "These guys were better"..

Exactly.



The kids don't care about old guys. And they should'nt. That's not the way to make baseball grow.


Totally disagree. When I was a kid, I loved hearing stories about Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, etc. And so does my son.

But you have to weave the past with the present. You can't just ignore it. Well, I suppose you can do whatever you want, but I know one thing: to me, baseball's past helps me enjoy its present.

[IdahoBert]

When I was a kid I was disinterested in players of bygone years and that may well be the case for others today. But having your ignorance corrected is a good thing. I can't see why young fans would storm out of the World Series because their short attention spans were activated by having to hear something about Al Kaline. Many fans have living memories of the the '68 and '84 squads and they deserve to honor them in historic context to today. I don't see why we can't honor the past and the present simultaneously.

[Oblong]

For me it takes away from the present. We have forever to honor the '68 team, and we've been doing it for nearly 40 years already. But the '06 teams is right here in our faces making the history and we should capture it all and soak it all in as much we can this next week because after that it will too be history.

[zachcadillac]

I really wanted the Mets to win so we could eliminate all of these silly subplots. I really don't want to hear about how Larussa and Leyland are best of friends every day, either. I think it would be cooler to build new WS memories against a different team.

This was the primary reason I was rooting for the Mets, and you summed it up perfectly.

[OldTimey]

Good points Oblong. In addition, I was talking as an overall marketing device that the mlb relies too much on its history. That Endy Chavez catch last night was as remarkable as the over-the-shoulder Willie Mays catch. And it happened last night.

[Chaz]

some of you talk like we go to the World Series like the Yankees and we have played the Cards at least 3 times in the last 20 years.. for the love of baseball people, it was 1968 and how many times have the Tigers gone to the series since 1960 and how many times have we played the Cards in it? you don't think we can't at least honor some guys and mentioned them once at the beginning of a game, or is that just too much? we should be lucky that they are still alive. You say forget the past, well I guess we will really forget the 119 games we lost a couple years ago. Sure, I love the 06 Tigers, but I also sat at Tiger stadium for the 5th game of the 68 series..

[OldTimey]

When I was a kid I was disinterested in players of bygone years and that may well be the case for others today. But having your ignorance corrected is a good thing. I can't see why young fans would storm out of the World Series because their short attention spans were activated by having to hear something about Al Kaline. Many fans have living memories of the the '68 and '84 squads and they deserve to honor them in historic context to today. I don't see why we can't honor the past and the present simultaneously.

I would consider this the single greatest Tiger season of all-time if they win the World Series once you factor in the context of history and expectations. Let it have its own day. 68 and 84 have been honored HUNDREDS of times.

[OldTimey]

some of you talk like we go to the World Series like the Yankees and we have played the Cards at least 3 times in the last 20 years.. for the love of baseball people, it was 1968 and how many times have the Tigers gone to the series since 1960 and how many times have we played the Cards in it? you don't think we can't at least honor some guys and mentioned them once at the beginning of a game, or is that just too much? we should be lucky that they are still alive. You say forget the past, well I guess we will really forget the 119 games we lost a couple years ago. Sure, I love the 06 Tigers, but I also sat at Tiger stadium for the 5th game of the 68 series..

Nobody said forget the past. Nobody. Not a single person. Zero of the people in this thread said that. Nobody thinks we should forget the past. I know what i said is that the MLB elevates the past and ignores the present too much. That is different.

[Chaz]

Nobody said forget the past. Nobody. Not a single person. Zero of the people in this thread said that. Nobody thinks we should forget the past. I know what i said is that the MLB elevates the past and ignores the present too much. That is different.


how do they ignore the present??? maybe the steriod thing blurred everything

[OldTimey]

Ohhh good one. Topical.

They ignore the present by not pushing current stars and talking too much about past stars.

[Casimir]

In addition, I was talking as an overall marketing device that the mlb relies too much on its history. That Endy Chavez catch last night was as remarkable as the over-the-shoulder Willie Mays catch. And it happened last night.

The problem is that if Johnny Damon makes that same catch, it becomes a bigger deal because Johnny Damon > Endy Chavez.

[Casimir]

Speaking of Bob Gibson, here's a little something we'll never see again in the history of the WS. Jump to Gibson's page (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gibsobo01.shtml) on the baseball-reference site, and scroll down to Postseason Pitching (only world series games for Gibson). 9 career starts, 1.89 ERA, 92 Ks vs 17 BBs in 81 IP, 8 complete games.

One of the complete games was a 10 inning win in New York in game 5 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10120NYA1964.htm) of 1964 on October 12. This was followed up with a 9 inning complete game in game 7 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10150SLN1964.htm) on October 15.

[BiggieG]

Speaking of Bob Gibson, here's a little something we'll never see again in the history of the WS. Jump to Gibson's page (http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gibsobo01.shtml) on the baseball-reference site, and scroll down to Postseason Pitching (only world series games for Gibson). 9 career starts, 1.89 ERA, 92 Ks vs 17 BBs in 81 IP, 8 complete games.

One of the complete games was a 10 inning win in New York in game 5 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10120NYA1964.htm) of 1964 on October 12. This was followed up with a 9 inning complete game in game 7 (http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B10150SLN1964.htm) on October 15.He was the meanest pitcher in the game at the time... and possibly ever. He had pinpoint control, 3+ pitches and also had a ++ fastball. He also was a feared headhunter. If you took a minute to dig in in the batter's box, you would find the next pitch aimed right at your ear. Drysdale was like that too. They controlled the game by intimidation.