Does anyone feel bad for Shelton?

[FloridaTigers]

I mean, really. Did he deserve to get sent down? Its not like Sean Casey did any better? Shelton should be on the post-season roster. If he doesn't get a chance here, then I hope he gets success somewhere else. He deserves it.

Also, a friend of mine works for the media (Not naming who), and was in the Tigers clubhouse and today sent my father this email. He knows we're Shelton fans in our household, so today in the clubhouse

I tell him how my friend and his kids believe the Tigers went into their late-season tailspin because he (Shelton) was sent down and it disrupted the clubhouse chemistry.

He tells me: "I love your friend and his kids. Tell them I said that."

I mean, if that doesn't stab you in the heart, nothing will.

[estrepe1]

Perhaps if he would have adjusted to how pitchers were getting him out the Tigers wouldn't have made that move.

I don't blame the Tigers for trying it with Casey, they didn't know he would be terrible. I would have loved to have seen Shelton get a chance after Casey was struggling.

However when he was up in September he didn't show much of an improvement over his previous approach where he would swing through the high fastball.

I feel sorry for him because he climbed the mountain and fell back down. But I think it was partially his own fault that he didn't figure out how to get back to a decent level of production again.

So yes as a person I feel bad for him. As a team I wonder if he would produce right now or not.

[Yoda]

Feel bad? We sure are sensitive these days.

[FloridaTigers]

The problem in his swing could've been fixed in Detroit, not Toledo.

[estrepe1]

The problem in his swing could've been fixed in Detroit, not Toledo.

And yet he didn't fix them in Toledo. He looked like the same hitter when he came up as when he was sent down.

I have faith he can get it back together, but I don't feel bad for him at all.

[chesterlimon]

i'm glad you're a fan and all but ice cream and rainbows don't win ballgames. yeah i kinda feel bad, but to say the "tailspin" would have been averted had shelton been around is beyond rediculous. IMO

[FloridaTigers]

i'm glad you're a fan and all but ice cream and rainbows don't win ballgames. yeah i kinda feel bad, but to say the "tailspin" would have been averted had shelton been around is beyond rediculous. IMO

I'm a big believer in clubhouse chemistry. Once you screw it up, it takes some time to get it back.

[tigerfanfromchicago]

Yes.

The Tigers most likely wouldn't be here without his start this year. I'm glad that Casey is our starting first baseman, but Shelton should be on the roster over Neifi. They should have been on the big league roster on the day that you had to be in the majors in order to go to the postseason. Neifi still should be where he belongs, with the Cubs.

[Shelton]

Casey>Shelton

Shelton<Santiago

Therefore no Shelton on roster.

Neifi will make for a decent pinch-bunter in the NL parks.

[FloridaTigers]

Yes.

The Tigers most likely wouldn't be here without his start this year. I'm glad that Casey is our starting first baseman, but Shelton should be on the roster over Neifi. They should have been on the big league roster on the day that you had to be in the majors in order to go to the postseason. Neifi still should be where he belongs, with the Cubs.

I agree with the first sentence. Tigers aren't here without Chris. He lit the fire for the team, gave them that boost of confidence that they can perform at a winning level.

[Yoda]

The Tigers most likely wouldn't be here without his start this year.

I agree. Those first two weeks were important.

Also, they probably would have won even more games between April 15th and July 31st if Shelton wouldn't have been so horrible.

[estrepe1]

Yes.

The Tigers most likely wouldn't be here without his start this year. I'm glad that Casey is our starting first baseman, but Shelton should be on the roster over Neifi. They should have been on the big league roster on the day that you had to be in the majors in order to go to the postseason. Neifi still should be where he belongs, with the Cubs.

Shelton can not be on the postseason roster over Neifi. He can only be on the postseason roster over Santiago.

[eastside billee]

I'd rather have Shelton than Neifi - but I'm not the manager. Leyland is, he's been right up til now - therefore, I go with what Jim says.

[Yoda]

I'm a big believer in clubhouse chemistry. Once you screw it up, it takes some time to get it back.

I agree with the first sentence. Tigers aren't here without Chris. He lit the fire for the team, gave them that boost of confidence that they can perform at a winning level.


I have the same question for both of these statements. I'm not going to say you're wrong, even though I don't believe there's a bit of truth to either, but I'm currious as to what makes you believe them.

[GartenSpartan]

I do feel bad for Shelton. He was a big part of our early season success and easily could have played as well or better than Casey down the stretch, but I don't buy that sending him down caused a chemistry disruption that led to our bad stretch. Casey is widely regarded as one of the nicest and best teammates in the game...i'm sure guys felt bad for shelton for awhile, but that was about it.

[estrepe1]

I'd rather have Shelton than Neifi - but I'm not the manager. Leyland is, he's been right up til now - therefore, I go with what Jim says.

Leyland has no choice between Shelton and Neifi. He has the choice between Shelton and Santiago.

If you mean that Dombrowski never should have acquired Neifi and Shelton should have been on the roster as of August 31st I might be more apt to agree because I think both statements are true. But at this point they really do not have a choice between Shelton and Neifi on the postseason roster.

[tigerfanfromchicago]

Shelton can not be on the postseason roster over Neifi. He can only be on the postseason roster over Santiago.

I know. I'm saying that it's an injustice that they let this happen. Shelton shouldn't have been in the minors on the day that he needed to be in the majors to go to the post season.

[jadefalcon]

I do feel bad for Shelton, but I'd feel worse if he was actually producing when he was sent down.

[slim pickens]

I'd rather have Shelton than Neifi - but I'm not the manager. Leyland is, he's been right up til now - therefore, I go with what Jim says.
You can only replace a player who is injured, Neifi is not injured, therefore cannot be replaced.

[MichiganFan1717]

I feel worse for Maroth. He's been with the team since they sucked, and the team starts doing well, and he's having a career year, to that point, and BOOM! hurts his shoulders and watches his teamates in the World Series instead of playing in them.

[illmatic774]

uh, feel bad?

Its not like he was doing jack**** to not justify him being sent down. He (and we) should just be thankful for his hot start. Not many people in history have had that kind of start.

He was figured out one month into the season. Its as simple as that.

Casey has been on fire if you haven't noticed. (before calf injury of course)







Oh, and he's making more money than all of us. And so does Neifi. I doubt that they are too sad about this to tell you the truth.

[LeFlorean]

Who wouldn't be thrown off by being sent to AAA after playing nearly every day through July? I realize his splits after April look kind of nasty, but it's not as if he was a liability -- besides, some of the other players' numbers for any given month look no worse than his worst month. He still wound up hitting .273 for the year, despite being treated like some kind of cancer.

And he fielded .994. Casey's lifetime percentage? .995.

[catswithbats]

I feel bad for him personally, but not on a team standpoint. Casey has (had?) been clutch during the postseason until the injury

[FloridaTigers]

I do feel bad for Shelton, but I'd feel worse if he was actually producing when he was sent down.

Yes, because .270 is just the opposite of producing. Its terrible, right?

To answer your question Yoda, about team chemistry. Look at the New York Yankees. If talent won the World Series, they would be going for a sevenpeat. But they played the Tigers, who were a loose bunch who seemed to just be thankful to be there. The Yankees never show any emotion on the bench, and can't develop any chemistry when two all-stars a year come by and take the spot of two important table setters or role players.

The hot start? Many of the bombs Shelton hit probably gave the Tigers a lead, or extended it, and kept the team safe in the first month. Like I also said, confidence. It was like telling the team "Hey, we're new Tigers. We're not going to go back to our old ways of losing".

[Yoda]

Who wouldn't be thrown off by being sent to AAA after playing nearly every day through July? I realize his splits after April look kind of nasty, but it's not as if he was a liability -- besides, some of the other players' numbers for any given month look no worse than his worst month. He still wound up hitting .273 for the year, despite being treated like some kind of cancer.

And he fielded .994. Casey's lifetime percentage? .995.

He was a liability. His slugging for May, June, July and September were .363, .364, .386, .263. He was "ok" at getting on base in May and July but that's all he was providing. We needed someone to be more productive so they tried that with Casey. He wasn't very good so they brought shelton back up and he got even worse.

[estrepe1]

He still has good looking overall numbers based on his start.

Look at his July:

.289/.344/.386 in 83 at bats. Not terrible when it comes to BA and OBP but that SLG is terrible for a 1B. You won't hear me argue for Casey but you also won't get me to say that Shelton was producing like a 1B after April.

He came up in September and got 19 at bats... he struck out 9 times and hit .211/.286/.263... terribly small sample size but still from watching him you could tell his approach was basically the same as it was when his struggles started.

Don't ask me to feel sorry for someone that never adjusted to what the league was doing to him.

[FloridaTigers]

He was a liability. His slugging for May, June, July and September were .363, .364, .386, .263. He was "ok" at getting on base in May and July but that's all he was providing. We needed someone to be more productive so they tried that with Casey. He wasn't very good so they brought shelton back up and he got even worse.

How could he get back into the groove of things and try to breakout when he's being played once every six days against guys like Santana and whatnot?

[Yoda]

Yes, because .270 is just the opposite of producing. Its terrible, right?

To answer your question Yoda, about team chemistry. Look at the New York Yankees. If talent won the World Series, they would be going for a sevenpeat. But they played the Tigers, who were a loose bunch who seemed to just be thankful to be there. The Yankees never show any emotion on the bench, and can't develop any chemistry when two all-stars a year come by and take the spot of two important table setters or role players.

The hot start? Many of the bombs Shelton hit probably gave the Tigers a lead, or extended it, and kept the team safe in the first month. Like I also said, confidence. It was like telling the team "Hey, we're new Tigers. We're not going to go back to our old ways of losing".

1. The Yankees had poor chemistry because they know their pitching sucked and they were getting killed. I don't think they lost because of lack of chemistry. They lost because their pitching was horrible and good pitching will shut down good hitting.

2. Then how come every player says the confidence came from Jim in Spring training? They were winning games because they were good, and probably not because Chris Shelton "lit a fire under them". I just don't believe in things like that. The Tigers were just the better team.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's just what I think. I think talent means way more than chemistry, and all of those other things that ESPN talks about.

[estrepe1]

How could he get back into the groove of things and try to breakout when he's being played once every six days against guys like Santana and whatnot?

He had that opportunity in May, June, and July when he was getting the everyday at bats at first base.

I hope I am wrong and I hope he gets another shot with the Tigers. But honestly I don't think we should feel sorry for someone because they got sent down for lack of production. Should I feel bad for Damion Easley that he was cut because of his lack of production?

[Yoda]

How could he get back into the groove of things and try to breakout when he's being played once every six days against guys like Santana and whatnot?

But he had been trying to break out of that groove since the end of April. It didn't work in Detroit and it didn't work in Toledo either.

[Truth]

I'm a big believer in clubhouse chemistry. Once you screw it up, it takes some time to get it back.

What exactly does a guy with a few months of major league success, who goes into a multi-month tailspin that ultimately starts messing with his average defense, add to clubhouse chemistry? Had the Tigers done nothing, including going out and trying to add to the roster before the trade deadline, that would have sent a worse message to the clubhouse.

I don't feel bad for him, his status was in his hands and he didn't make it happen, even with a chance to regroup at Toledo. After watching the Oakland series and the number of misplays in their infield, I understand even more why the Tigers, given a bunch of bad offensive choices, went with the best defensive options when they put together their playoff roster.

[LeFlorean]

Without April, Shelton still hits .256. Run production obviously went down significantly, but his worst month was much better than Granderson's August. He basically went directly to AAA after playing every day -- no? I cannot recall the circumstances -- the exact roster situation, to be specific -- but is there any reason why he couldn't've worked on his swing while on the bench for a while? I really do think that the direct route to Toledo messed with him in a detrimental way.

I don't recall him being benched more than a game at a time after his production went down. That could very well be another factor. How many players remain in the lineup throughout such a protracted downturn?

[Flame 103]

Shelton sucked. He was sent down. Came back up and sucked some more. He was sent down. I doubt shelton could have hit .350 in the playoffs like casey has.

[Yoda]

Without April, Shelton still hits .256. Run production obviously went down significantly, but his worst month was much better than Granderson's August. He basically went directly to AAA after playing every day -- no? I cannot recall the circumstances -- the exact roster situation, to be specific -- but is there any reason why he couldn't've worked on his swing while on the bench for a while? I really do think that the direct route to Toledo messed with him in a detrimental way.

I don't recall him being benched more than a game at a time after his production went down. That could very well be another factor. How many players remain in the lineup throughout such a protracted downturn?

Granderson plays very good defense at a demanding position. And he didn't slump for 3+ months. I don't see how you could compare the two.

[ErieTigerFan]

I agree with the first sentence. Tigers aren't here without Chris. He lit the fire for the team, gave them that boost of confidence that they can perform at a winning level.

Agree with you that his bat carried us through April, for the most part.

But unfortunately, we live in a world that continually asks "What have you done for me lately?" I'm afraid that pitchers have caught on to Chris, and he will not likely duplicate his success again. Or I could be wrong, who knows?

As for Casey, I think he brings great chemistry to the team. The guy is always smiling, always jabbering to somebody, and he gets his good hacks in now and then. Even surprises with some athletic catches on foul balls no one expects such a big lug to have the speed for. He can stay far as I'm concerned.

[Domino]

Someone needs to break Neifi's leg so that Shelton can be on the roster.

[Yoda]

The only player I feel bad for is Fernando Vina. He started the whole thing.

[ErieTigerFan]

What exactly does a guy with a few months of major league success, who goes into a multi-month tailspin that ultimately starts messing with his average defense, add to clubhouse chemistry? Had the Tigers done nothing, including going out and trying to add to the roster before the trade deadline, that would have sent a worse message to the clubhouse.

I don't feel bad for him, his status was in his hands and he didn't make it happen, even with a chance to regroup at Toledo. After watching the Oakland series and the number of misplays in their infield, I understand even more why the Tigers, given a bunch of bad offensive choices, went with the best defensive options when they put together their playoff roster.

Once again, Truth speaks truth. Nice job.

[LeFlorean]

I had a strange feeling when I hit submit on that post that the first reply would go directly for the Granderson reference. It was just a small point that a lot of people don't think about when talking about the vast void that is Shelton.

I do feel bad for Shelton in that he was basically left to rot all that time and then sent directly to AAA once Casey came in, especially when there are plenty of people who are okay with Guillen playing first. The situation would obviously be different if Young's, uh, own situation would've been different -- it would've been much easier to give Shelton some rest and guide him along.

[ErieTigerFan]

The only player I feel bad for is Fernando Vina. He started the whole thing.

I stopped to think about this very point recently. The guy deserved better luck for what he did for us. His signing made joining up with this orgamization possible for Pudge and Rondell White that year.

Now....with a league championship (and more?) under our belts, I think more free agents will take Detroit alot more seriously before laughing us off like Tejada, Guerrero and Glaus did.

[ypsieast]

Kenny Rogers and Marcus Thames spent around 7 years each in the minor leagues. Some guys spend their whole careers never even sniffing the majors. Shelton got a chance, did well, then did not so well.
Do I feel sorry for him because he is missing out on this tremendous post-season run? Yes.
Is it the greatest travesty in the history of mankind/baseball/2006 Tigers? No.

DD and JL have proven to me that they know how to do their jobs. They didn't haphazardly send Shelton down. They didn't do it to be mean. They didn't fail to wiegh his contribution to clubhouse chemistry. They did what they thought was best for the organization. Its got to be tough on Shelton, but as a professional, he needs to get over it. Do you think Marcus Thames is crying that its such an injustice? He shouldn't. Its just unfortunate that what's the powers that be see best for the Tigers in 2006 is partially at the expense of Chris Shelton. That's life, especially for a young ballplayer.

[Charles Liston]

I don't feel any worse for him than I feel for the thousands of other guys who aren't good enough either, like Randall Simon or Robert Fick, or you and me for that matter. Chris is a righthanded Robert Fick. He's not a good enough hitter to use at 1B or DH, and he's not a good enough fielder to catch. 3 hot weeks don't make him a good hitter, not if they're followed by 3 bad months. That's not a slump, that's reality.

[tigersfandm]

Don't feel bad at all. This is a business. Don't produce you are gone. If he would of produced, he would be starting now.

[LeFlorean]

Can anyone remember the last time someone played virtually every day past the break, and with Shelton's kind of numbers -- on pace for roughly 20/65/.270, lopsided splits aside -- only to be sent directly to AAA?

This isn't a way of continuing the argument. I'm just curious.

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

I feel worse for Maroth than Shelton, who quite simply played himself off the roster. If he was producing they would have kept him. It's plain and simple. Maroth on the other hand deserves better after being here during the tough times and then getting injured.

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

Can anyone remember the last time someone played virtually every day past the break, and with Shelton's kind of numbers -- on pace for roughly 20/65/.270, lopsided splits aside -- only to be sent directly to AAA?

This isn't a way of continuing the argument. I'm just curious.

I know it's not the same but in 1984 - Howard Johnson put up .248/12/50 in 355 AB, only to get benched in the playoffs for Marty Castillo .234/4/17 in 141 AB.

[estrepe1]

I had a strange feeling when I hit submit on that post that the first reply would go directly for the Granderson reference. It was just a small point that a lot of people don't think about when talking about the vast void that is Shelton.

Because Shelton plays a position at which the most important thing is offense. Granderson plays one of the toughest positions on the field at an above average to excellent level. He has more leeway to struggle.

That isn't to say that people were happy when he was down in August. In fact I think a lot of this board really got on him. Including someone I haven't seen in a while (Statik).

If Granderson wasn't so solid defensively he would likely have been sent down. Apparently he was also working much harder to change his approach. I don't know if it is due to the fact that he is on fire or not but his 2 strike approach has changed dramatically recently.

Either way the two situations are pretty different from eachother.

[tiger337]

I stopped to think about this very point recently. The guy deserved better luck for what he did for us. His signing made joining up with this orgamization possible for Pudge and Rondell White that year.



Rodriguez and White signed with the Tigers for one reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[AlaskanTigersFan]

he got us started this season with the hot start. Hopefully he works hard this off-season to regain his form. There's a chance he could be ruined her in Detroit. He may need to be traded so he can do better elsewhere. But I still see a .300/30/100 hitter in him. Its there, but its up to him to find it... Detroit might not be the place for him..

[LeFlorean]

(Referring to estrepe1's post)

I completely understand that. I should've prefaced the reference with a "yes, I realize their positions and circumstances are almost completely different." I just don't think Shelton's a total goat, and I do think that he has received a disproportionate amount of criticism. Off-board I've spoken with a handful of people who became instantly greedy -- around, oh, May -- about the kind of numbers a Tiger first baseman should be putting up.

[estrepe1]

Rodriguez and White signed with the Tigers for one reason: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Wasn't it also due to the fact that the Tigers offered a long term deal to White.

Ivan wasn't getting a 4 year deal with an option for a 5th year from any other team.

[estrepe1]

I completely understand that. I should've prefaced the reference with a "yes, I realize their positions and circumstances are almost completely different." I just don't think Shelton's a total goat, and I do think that he has received a disproportionate amount of criticism. Off-board I've spoken with a handful of people who became instantly greedy -- around, oh, May -- about the kind of numbers a Tiger first baseman should be putting up.

I want at least .360/.520 consistently from a first baseman. (obp/slg).... Shelton wasn't really close to either one. Technically he was overall but after April he wasn't close to either one.

[tiger337]

I felt a little bad for Shelton because he got off to an extraordinary start this year and was on top of the world. Then he goes into a bad slump and gets replaced by a weak hitting cripple who gets by on reputation and an Irish smile. Finally he gets passed over for the post-season roster so the Tigers can have 3 back-up shortstops. But the Tigers are in the World Series so I feel good overall. :happy:

[BaconDrips]

I don't feel bad for him.

[tiger337]

Wasn't it also due to the fact that the Tigers offered a long term deal to White.

Ivan wasn't getting a 4 year deal with an option for a 5th year from any other team.

That's what I meant. No team was going to give them the contracts that the Tigers gave them. Ordonez was another.

[apabruce]

Once the Tigers signed Casey, it made sense to send Shelton down. He wasn't goint to get the AB to work on his problems in Detroit in August. I have no idea, but I would guess even Shelton would agree with that. The month in Toledo was not enough to help Shelton overcome his problems.

I feel bad for him because he had the first base job and he lost it. It also must be frustrating for him to see how mediocre Casey is. I'm hoping he finds the stroke again and is a long term Tiger, but he's going to have to earn his job back.

[ewsieg]

If we win the WS, i'm sure he's getting a ring....Maroth too. They helped this team at different points become the team they are now. The team needs to go with what if feels will help it the best now, but they are still members of this team.

[lesgoblu02]

No

[FloridaTigers]

I hope Shelton is our starting 1B on April 2nd, 2007.

And that Casey is with some other team.

[lesgoblu02]

I hope Shelton is our starting 1B on April 2nd, 2007.

And that Casey is with some other team.


Disagree

Agree

[mattie]

I don't feel bad for him at all. Like many people have said, Chris played himself off of the roster. I did say that he would be added when we made the WS, but now that Casey is confirmed to be healthy enough to play I highly doubt he'll make it. But, I guess you never know.

I do feel bad for Maroth though. Even though he was hurt for most of the year I feel that he should have been on the post-season roster.

[Flame 103]

I hope Shelton is our starting 1B on April 2nd, 2007.

And that Casey is with some other team.

1. HELL NO

2. If we can get something better.

Casey >> Shelton

and it's not even close.

[estrepe1]

2. If we can get something better.


It wouldn't be hard to improve over Casey.

[Flame 103]

It wouldn't be hard to improve over Casey.


Yes it is when you look at who will be available at 1B in free agency.

[lesgoblu02]

Yes it is when you look at who will be available at 1B in free agency.

Trades can be both fun and educational:cool:

[Flame 103]

Trades can be both fun and educational:cool:

not when they have to involve Sanchez, Maybin, Miller, or Bondo. :classic:

[tiger337]

Yes it is when you look at who will be available at 1B in free agency.

No, it won't be. There are waiver wire pickups that would be better than Casey.
Casey has all the indicators of an aging veteran on the downside of his career. He's 32. He's stocky. he keeps getting hurt. His power is declining. His batting average declined this year. I look for him to follow the Bobby Higginson career path. Don't let him fool you.

[estrepe1]

not when they have to involve Sanchez, Maybin, Miller, or Bondo. :classic:


Sanchez is a highly tradable asset.

[estrepe1]

No, it won't be. There are waiver wire pickups that would be better than Casey.
Casey has all the indicators of an aging veteran on the downside of his career. He's 32. He's stocky. he keeps getting hurt. His power is declining. His batting average declined this year. I look for him to follow the Bobby Higginson career path. Don't let him fool you.


Agreed. I wouldn't be shocked if Josh Phelps would out produce Casey if given that chance.

[Flame 103]

Phelps would not out perform casey. lol.

[dt35456884]

What I feel bad about is the fact that we have to try to win the World Series without a very good 1B. Shelton was/should have been the answer, and it's a shame that he suddenly flamed out this season.

There was never any illusion of greatness when we obtained Casey, but he was actually horrible after coming over from Pittsburgh. Still, his presence in the lineup is important if only because it keeps Neifi and Santiago on the bench, where they belong. So hopefully Sean is able to play in the World Series, performs wonderfully, and then catches on with the Royals next year.

[estrepe1]

Phelps would not out perform casey. lol.

I really think he could. Why do you think he couldn't? Casey is an often injured player that really was poor with the Tigers over the second half of the season. He has had a good postseason with some injury issues.

I bet Phelps could put up .280/.350/.460 at the MLB level. That is better than what Casey will likely provide next season at much less cost.

Especially considering Casey provided .245/.286/.364 with the Tigers this season.

[holygoat]

I don't feel sorry for Shelton. The "clubhouse chemistry" argument is totally without merit, as the Tigers will be playing in the World Series starting this Saturday.

[tiger337]

Phelps would not out perform casey. lol.

Did you really lol when you said that? Casey had a .724 OPS and spent a lot of time on the DL this year. That's pretty bad. LOL

[tiger337]

What I feel bad about is the fact that we have to try to win the World Series without a very good 1B. Shelton was/should have been the answer, and it's a shame that he suddenly flamed out this season.



Shelton's flame out was the biggest disappointment of the season. It was about the only bad thing that happened to the Tigers this year. I don't think it's going to matter for the WS but Shelton's lack of development is going to hurt their future. I really thought he was going to be a solid hitter for the next few years.

[ErieTigerFan]

I felt a little bad for Shelton because he got off to an extraordinary start this year and was on top of the world. Then he goes into a bad slump and gets replaced by a weak hitting cripple who gets by on reputation and an Irish smile. Finally he gets passed over for the post-season roster so the Tigers can have 3 back-up shortstops. But the Tigers are in the World Series so I feel good overall. :happy:

1999 CIN 151 594 103 197 42 3 25 99 61 88 0 2 .332 .399 .539 .938
2000 CIN 133 480 69 151 33 2 20 85 52 80 1 0 .315 .385 .517 .902
2001 CIN 145 533 69 165 40 0 13 89 43 63 3 1 .310 .369 .458 .827
2002 CIN 120 425 56 111 25 0 6 42 43 47 2 1 .261 .334 .362 .696
2003 CIN 147 573 71 167 19 3 14 80 51 58 4 0 .291 .350 .408 .758
2004 CIN 146 571 101 185 44 2 24 99 46 36 2 0 .324 .381 .534 .915
2005 CIN 137 529 75 165 32 0 9 58 48 48 2 0 .312 .371 .423 .795

So much for a weak hitting cripple. As a writer, I'd expect you to know your facts better before making such a brash statement.

[Yoda]

I would say that this year he's mostly been a weak-hitting cripple. He's hitting well in the post-season though.

[LeFlorean]

It's amazing how fast a lot of us went from hoping for a .500 team to being merciless about a .273 hitter who was forced to play through three-month slump.

[Yoda]

It's amazing how fast a lot of us went from hoping for a .500 team to being merciless about a .273 hitter who was forced to play through three-month slump.

There's a lot more that should be looked at than the .273 average. Do you really want a 1st baseman who hits for a mediocre average and very little power? Since that first 2 weeks he hit only 6 HR's and 10 doubles. He had the lowers slugging % on the team over that period. They need to upgrade that.

And like someone said earlier. 3 months is more of a reality than a slump. In actually he was horrible all year but managed to have 2 really good weeks. You can't keep him on the team just because he was good back in early april though.

I, for one, am not giving up on him though. What he did for 2 weeks probably isn't a complete fluke. He was good last year too. I think he can go back to being a very good hitter. But he really needs to fix his approach at the plate. He looked like an entirely different hitter after that first 2 weeks.

[LeFlorean]

Yes, I realize there's much more to it than the average. I'm not saying that a .273 average should guarantee anyone anything. I was just making a comment that we've gone really fast from hoping the Tigers win every other game to scrutinizing one player as a horrifically weak link.

Is it necessarily a given that Shelton would've continued to be brutal if he had been benched a while and continued to work on things, instead of playing almost every day until Casey came along? I don't think so. How many first basemen of Shelton's caliber have had to play that long through a lull?

I think Shelton's capable of 25 HRs, 80 RBIs, and a .280 avg., so I'm not intimating that playing all those consecutive games, only to be sent directly to AAA, destroyed the possibility of a potential superstar. His situation is, however, unfortunate. He was sort of thrown on the tracks and then discarded.

[Yoda]

He was sort of thrown on the tracks and then discarded.

I don't think so at all. I think he was given every opportunity possible. I think the lack of production was because of himself, not other people. I don't think I've ever seen a player benched for a week to work on hitting. They needed him at the time. Dmitri was gone so he couldn't have played first. When they finally got someone else they sent Shelton down to Toledo and he still wasn't able to fix his problem.

Maybe benching him for a week or so in June would have helped the problem, but I don't see much evidence to support this. I have a hard time blaming others for his problems this year.

And I think Shelton is still capible of hitting .300 with 30 HR's and 40+ doubles. He needs to really cut down on his swing though. He's just too off-balance. I don't know if he'll ever reach that but the talent is certainly there.

[BigCec]

I feel bad for Shelton yes, however I think the right moves were made. I would also like to see him get a decent shot at the starting 1B/DH role for 2007.

[Yoda]

I wouldn't mind signing a guy like Thomas that could play 1st and DH. If Shelton still sucks next year we can let Frank play 1st. If Shelton is good, we can stick Frank at DH. I have no idea what to expect from Shelton but I'd like to have an option if he doesn't work out.

[ypsieast]

I wouldn't mind signing a guy like Thomas that could play 1st and DH. If Shelton still sucks next year we can let Frank play 1st. If Shelton is good, we can stick Frank at DH. I have no idea what to expect from Shelton but I'd like to have an option if he doesn't work out.
I may be wrong, but I thought Thomas was unable to play in the field. He hasn't played an inning of 1B since 2004 (32 Inn). He can barely move.

Not to be too picky, but I hope the Tigers get a lefty 1B so Shelton can get some PT vs. the lefty pitchers. I don't want to give up on him, but I don't want to rely on him from day 1 and have to scramble for 1B at the trade deadline like this year.

[Yoda]

I may be wrong, but I thought Thomas was unable to play in the field. He hasn't played an inning of 1B since 2004 (32 Inn). He can barely move.

Not to be too picky, but I hope the Tigers get a lefty 1B so Shelton can get some PT vs. the lefty pitchers. I don't want to give up on him, but I don't want to rely on him from day 1 and have to scramble for 1B at the trade deadline like this year.

I definitely agree. And you're probably right about Frank.

[LeFlorean]

Not to be too picky, but I hope the Tigers get a lefty 1B so Shelton can get some PT vs. the lefty pitchers. I don't want to give up on him, but I don't want to rely on him from day 1 and have to scramble for 1B at the trade deadline like this year.

Yes.

[Charles Liston]

I think Shelton's capable of 25 HRs, 80 RBIs, and a .280 avg.

I think that a lot of people are agreeing with you, with the proviso that you might be overstating the homers, but those people are going on to say that they are not prepared to accept that level of production from a first baseman.

[A.J.K.]

a lot of people act like Casey's been awful since he came over, but as has been reported in the media, he hit a LOT of hard-hit balls right at people in the final weeks of the season.

[estrepe1]

So much for a weak hitting cripple. As a writer, I'd expect you to know your facts better before making such a brash statement.

The argument is that he is starting to fall apart and will see a dramatic drop in production. Given that his career numbers have no place in the argument.