Comerica

[Sandlot]

Comerica ParK

OK,..I got hammered on this a couple weeks ago.

But I'm not done!!

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

The fences are going to be brought in........period, done deal, maybe, whatever.

That's beside the point for now.

OK....... I made some statements, "bring the fences in, what difference does it make, the Tigers have not won for ten years".
"I don't like Comerica Park", and so on.

You guys hammered me on this and basically you said "it's the players, not the park". Randy Smith, McHale, Mike Illitch and so on are to blame".

After reading all the reasons you submitted, I agree!

It was not Comerica Park that contributed to the Tigers dilema........How's that? I was wrong. It's not the park!!

NOW...........Please explain to me how Comerica Park has benefited the Tigers? The are still losers after 3 years there.

The rules are: you cannot blame Randy Smith...Buddy Bell...Phil Garner....Mike Illitch or John MaHale anymore.

You already did that the last time.

How has Comerica made the Tigers a better team?
Luxury boxes? The wider concourses'? More restrooms? Ferris Wheel? Cheesie Waterfall? Ugly ivy in center field? Pepsi Porch?
Maybe it's McDonalds..... about 900 feet away in center field... or is it the....
Easier access to overpriced beer, overpriced food. Right by the Ferris Wheel is a stand ("hamburger, potato chips and pickle $8.95")...
Comon' now, it's been 3 years and attendance is dwindling.

Comerica Park is not even in the top 10 of major league parks to visit. In fact it's not even mentioned in major league parks to visit!

Can you believe people would rather go to Fenway Park (1912), Wrigley Field (1914), Yankee Stadium(1923), Dodger Stadium, Jacobs Field, Camden Yards.. before they go to Comerica park.

Don't believe me! Try these links.

http://americasbestonline.com/BASEBALL.HTM

http://www.rateitall.com/Topic.asp?I=44C7C47B-165B-4898-8249-5DA67E16C2D3

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/ballparks/010427.html

Hard to believe........isn't it

There is no intamacy, nostalgia in Comerica Park. They brought over the flag pole from Tiger stadium. That's it!

Finally went to a game in August. We sat behind home plate, 13 rows up, between the dugout and the screen, paid $60.00 per seat. Between parking, seats, food and a couple of beers spent nearly $200.00 for the game. That is nonsense. The only reason I did was, it was Ernie Harwell day. Never again.


Should have made the Pepsi porch in right field at Comerica like Tiger stadium with an overhang near the field instead of 500/600 feet away.

Took a walk in the upper deck in the right field corner and the players looked like ants on the field.

Some parts of the stands are to level and you have to stand to see the play on the field if someone in front of you stands up.

The scoreboard is overpowering and distracts you from the play on the field.

Not many players have anything nice to say about the stadium especially the dimensions. Not publically, anyway. You've read the innuendos.

That should be an insult to the architects, John McHale and Mike Illitch. Especially Illitch.

You guys can have Comerica. I'll stay home and watch them on TV
Hey, I'm still a Tiger fan!

Good news though, you probably won't hear from me for quite a while. Decided I'm spending toooo much time on forums and need a break.

Take care ;)

[DetroitFolly]

What a wussy you are! Drop bombs like this, and then say "I'm leaving..."

Go ahead, leave crybaby.

[Dan Gilmore]

I live a couple thousand miles away from Comerica and I haven't made the trip back yet, so if my not being there bugs you, ignore this post. I guess my problem with Sandlot's comments are that they seem bassackwards to me in terms of what the Stadium/Team relationship is. The team comes first. If you have a good team, the fans will come and whatever the stadium adds is great. If your team stinks, well, the upset fans may be reduced to whining about the park. I am hoping in 2004 or 2005 the Tigers have a competitive team. My guess is that Comerica will look a whole lot better then.

[Shaggy Ry]

I'll agree on one point - having the "Biggest scoreboard in Baseball" is downright lame. Is that to be considered a tourist attraction like the biggest frying pan, the biggest ball of yarn and the biggest thermometer that you find in backwater towns across the country? I'd take it down and build some bleachers - the creatures need a home.

I'd have refurbished Tiger Stadium rather than built a new ballpark, but there's no going back now. My only wish now is they implode the old girl and put her out of her misery(Unless the HOF would make it a secondary site, but I think they are waiting for Yankee Stadium for that).

In about 25 years and a couple of winning seasons Comerica will have her own character(wear and tear, urine smell) and the Tiger statues with 25 years of Detroit acid rain will give atmosphere instead of looking contrived and goofy.

[RedRamage]

Originally posted by Sandlot
After reading all the reasons you submitted, I agree!

It was not Comerica Park that contributed to the Tigers dilema........How's that? I was wrong. It's not the park!!
It takes a man to admit he's wrong. For what it's worth, you've earned some respect from me by saying it.
NOW...........Please explain to me how Comerica Park has benefited the Tigers? The are still losers after 3 years there.

The rules are: you cannot blame Randy Smith...Buddy Bell...Phil Garner....Mike Illitch or John MaHale anymore. You already did that the last time.
It hasn't! But I'm gonna break your rules and saying it's because of Smith mostly. Let's look at the biggest move Smith made just prior to the opening of Comerica Park, but first a quick look at Comerica Park itself.

The Park is a BIG park. No question. It's a park that would emphasis Pitching, Defense, agressive base running, fast outfielders, gap hitters who could run all day around the bases. It's a park that DE-emphasises big power hitting sluggers.

With this in mind, who would you think would be a good big name player to get to put butts in the seats? Perhaps an Ichiro type player? Maybe a great left handed pitcher? People who would excel at Comerica, right? Makes sense. One type of person I would really avoid would be a big slugging power hitter. So, who did we trade half the farm to get? And who was responsible for getting that person?
Can you believe people would rather go to Fenway Park (1912), Wrigley Field (1914), Yankee Stadium(1923), Dodger Stadium, Jacobs Field, Camden Yards.. before they go to Comerica park.
[links cut]
Hard to believe........isn't it
Not really. Granted, a park can be a draw, but it isn't the biggest one. Noone goes to a park more than once or twice just to see a park. If the team on the field is good, then people go to the park to watch the game. They go more if it's a great park, less if it's a lousy park. If the team on the field is horrible, then people don't go to the park to watch the game. If it's a great park, they might go a little more, if it's a lousy park, they'll go less.
There is no intamacy, nostalgia in Comerica Park. They brought over the flag pole from Tiger stadium. That's it!
This is true, but the park is still very new. It'll take time before nostalgia grows. As for the flag pole, to the best of my knowledge, that's not even the same pole from Tiger Stadium!

Finally went to a game in August. We sat behind home plate, 13 rows up, between the dugout and the screen, paid $60.00 per seat. Between parking, seats, food and a couple of beers spent nearly $200.00 for the game. That is nonsense. The only reason I did was, it was Ernie Harwell day. Never again.
Not many players have anything nice to say about the stadium especially the dimensions. Not publically, anyway. You've read the innuendos.
Actually, I've read positive things about the stadium in the past, and on my visit there I really enjoyed the park. I still think that a park is only a small part of the experience. If the product on the field is bad, even the best park will over come it. If the product on the field is good, even the worst park will not stop fans from attending. (Of course, this doesn't explain why the Cubs always have so many fans attending, but if you can ever explain Cubs fans, I think there will Universities lining up get you to teach phsycology classes! :))

Let me ask you a question and try to answer as honestly as possible: Let's say by some miricle the Tigers pulled it all together in 2000 and made a run for the wild card spot and actually made it into the playoffs. In 2001, they won the Central and made it past the first round of playoffs. In 2002, they won the Central but were eliminated in the first round.

How would you feel about Comerica now? It would now be the spot where the Tigers turned things around and made the play offs for the first time since '87. It's the place where they beat someone else in the playoffs. Maybe those statues in left field are where a Tiger smacked a towering game winner in the playoffs...maybe flag pole is where a Tiger smacked an triple to clear the bases and drive in the runs that put them on top for good in a game.

The product on the field has a lot to do with how we feel emotionally about the field in which they play.

[MotownRandy]

Well I respect Sandrot for admitting he was wrong, but his new forum is not really any better than the first. It obviously has not benefitted the Tigers, but it is supposed to someday. Baseball is a business. The management did not believe the Tigers could keep up with other teams financially by staying in Tiger Stadium(plus it is old and will fall apart someday). Haven't I said this already? The expectations are there, but fans are not just going to come because its a new park. They forgot the part about putting a product on the field that is worth watching. So, once they start getting some better players this stadium should live up to its potential.

Also, I dont think any players hate the ballpark, they just hate that the fences are so far away. Overall, it is still a beautiful park no matter where the fences are.

[Moonlight Graham]

Sandlot,
I quickly read your novel and there is not much that I can disagree on.

[fullstop22]

If they move the fences in can we move them back out when the Tigers are pitching?

[mattie]

NOW...........Please explain to me how Comerica Park has benefited the Tigers? The are still losers after 3 years there.

that's funny, because no other major league club has problems playing at comerica. sure, comerica is a HUGE ballpark, but no other team has a problem hitting the ball into the gaps, scoring runs, hitting homers, catching fly balls and pop ups, pitching well, playing well offensively and defensivley. no other club complains about "a glare off of the ivy in center field." they don't complain about the fences, the way the infield plays, that the mound is too "low" or too "high." they don't complain about the seating in the dug out or that the bull pen is so far away from the clubhouse. they don't have any problems with the park. so why do the tigers? you want to know why?? because they suck! they are a horrible team that has to blame something besides themselves for the way that they play. they come up with excuses for everything...."i took a bad hop"......."there was a glare coming from the ivy"......."there's too many shadows"......"the grass is too long/short"......"the infield was too dry." it seems to me that if it was the park itself that all of the other teams would have difficulty playing there too.

don't get me wrong, i love the tigers. they are my favorite team in the world and i'm not just cracking on them to be funny, i'm attempting to make a point! if they didn't crybaby over ever little thing and make up excuses for their horrible play on the field, maybe they could become a better team. if the didn't concentrate on their individual statistics and attempted to hit the ball into a gap, maybe we would score more runs. if they didn't try to show off and swing at a ball in an attempt to hit a home runs maybe we would get more men in scoring position so a bloop single would drive him home. it's not that hard to concentrate on the little things in the game instead of trying to be the "power hitter" in a park that can't have one!

They brought over the flag pole from Tiger stadium. That's it!

think again!

Ugly ivy in center field?

the ivy in centerfield would look awesome if those stupid trees weren't up there.

[The Ronz]

I don't often comment on this issue but Comerica sux. Moving the Tigers from Tiger Stadium is one of the greatest travesties of our time. :mad: :mad: :mad:

That's all I have to say about that. ;)

[smr-nj]

Originally posted by The Ronz
That's all I have to say about that. ;)
... that was so "Gump-esque". :D

[HeyAbbott]

You know, there is only excuse we haven't heard from the Tigers.

We have yet to hear of an infielder muffing a grounder and then claiming he lost it in the sun.

There's a new one for you players that may be lurking.

[MotownWebGuy]

Originally posted by mattie
they don't complain about the fences, the way the infield plays...Sorry, but I disagree with that Mattie. Back when I worked for ACS Sports and was recording postgame interviews with the visiting teams, they would complain about the dimensions of the park also. It wasn't just the Tigers, it was whoever didn't win... I'm sure the visiting teams don't complain as much now as they did when the placed opened since they know what to expect and have been successful at beating the Tigers anyway.

[poppaof]

They only way they could have fixed Tiger Stadium is if they ripped out the entire upper deck and started over. The amount of obstructed views at Tiger Stadium was astronomical and the only way to fix that would have been to rip apart that overpraised upper deck and reconfigure the seats with the new luxury boxes, plus creating more dugout space, wider concourses, larger lockerrooms, and new pressboxes. There was not enough real estate in that tiny plot of land where Tiger Stadium sits to create such a spectacle. Quit whining and get on with your lives. We sucked before we left that heap.

[DaBishop]

never saw it in person but I love the fact that it has deep fences. If they're gonna bring them in, I think that sucks. Baseball has become a joke of who can hit the most home runs this year? I think our team for the past 3 years has been pathetic and certainly not built for the stadium but that's not Comerica's fault. Juan Gone should never have been signed. Dean Palmer should never have been signed(they must have known what the stadium was gonna look like in 1999). They should have been building a fast, contact hitting, strong pitching team. We didn't and now we stink...go figure.

[OldTimey]

I don't understand why people think moving that fence to 370 is automatically the same thing as ignoring pitching and small ball. Don't the Twins play that way?

[mattie]

MWG~ i've heard a few visiting players complain about the fences, but they know how to use the space to their advantage. when we were testing the fences during batting practice, a few visiting players asked me about it and i told them. i really didn't get too much of a response from some of them, but they liked the idea of bringing them in. but for the majority of the part, i don't hear them complain about the fences.

Baseball has become a joke of who can hit the most home runs this year?
i HATE home runs! not the fact that they give instant runs, but what good is a home run going to do when you can't play "little ball?" it seems like all a player cares about is his own statistics and hitting the most home runs.

They only way they could have fixed Tiger Stadium is if they ripped out the entire upper deck and started over.

try again. they would have to knock down the building because it is falling apart and put a whole new one up, put in a whole new field, a whole new irrigation system, all new water lines and pipes, and make the dugouts and bull pens a lot bigger.

[MotownRandy]

Mattie has probably seen parts of Tigers stadium the rest of us havent and would know best what kind of condition the building was in.

[poppaof]

Trust me Mattie I agree, I was through that stadium a number of times(legally and illegally)and I also know about the horrible health inspections due to certain creatures living there. My point was it wasn't fixable, and as soon as the nostalgia stops(never), we can forget about it.

[DTroppens]

I hate Comerica Park.

I love Ford Field.

Everything Ford Field is Comerica Park isn't - intimate, every seat is a good seat, affordable ect..

Well Comerica has one plus over Ford Field - it's an outdoor facility. I'd love to see the Lions in an outdoor facility.

[Biff Mayhem]

I like Comerica Park a lot.

Tiger Stadium turned into a dump.

[mattie]

i agree with biff!

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally posted by mattie
i agree with biff!

The correct phrase is "Biff is right", but if you want to be proper you can substitute correct for right.

[Todd]

Riff is Bight!!!!!!!!!!!

[mattie]

biff, i won't say that your right, because i am just agreeing with you, and plus, there isn't any reason for me to attempt to boost your ego! :D

mattie(is J/J) :p

[Ranger]

Originally posted by Biff Mayhem
The correct phrase is "Biff is right", but if you want to be proper you can substitute correct for right.

Biff is wrong (http://www.motowntigers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4293)

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally posted by Ranger
Biff is wrong (http://www.motowntigers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4293)

Justin, why on earth would you link to a thread where you were proved wrong several times? ;)

[MotorCityOrangeman]

Rip out the ferris wheel and carousel for the love of God!

[OldTimey]

Why does everyone have a problem with the ferris wheel and merry go round?

[MotorCityOrangeman]

Because they're in a frickin' ballpark! Enough of the carnival ********. They built Ford Field right, it's a world-class facility. I love Comerica, but they need to make some changes.

[Oblong]

I like Comerica Park... a lot.

Why did we like Tiger Stadium? Because of the intimacy? Sure, if you were lucky enough to be in the first 20 rows in front of the posts. If you were there when there were more than 25,000 people at the game, then there was a 65% chance you'd have a pole blocking your view and a 20% chance you couldn't follow a fly ball to the outfield due to the overhangs. You'd also have to put up with crowded concourses that were built for a smaller stadium. You'd have to put up with paint chips fallinginto your beer or soda.

We liked Tiger stadium because of hte memories. The memories of championships, winning seasons, going to games with the family... all that stuff that will develop over time at Comerica. I've already got a half dozen great memories from the 75+ games I've been to so far. During the last few weeks of games there, I went over every nook and cranny of that place and tried to relive everything. In the end, that's all it was memories.

I like the Ferris Wheel and Merry Go Round. Next season when I take my son who will be 2 1/2, I bet he will love it. That's all it takes for me to like it. Besides, those are nostalgia based rides. They belong at a ballpark like hot dogs do. Not everyone likes to sit in the stands for 9 innings and keep score. Baseball is a pastoral, leisurely game. It's like a picnic. Comerica's open spaces allow the game to be experienced like one. I can go anywhere and be within a few steps of seeing what's happening. I pay 5 bucks to park in a secure location only a few blocks from the gate.

I honestly think the frustration of the team is being taken out on Comerica because that's Ilitch's baby.

[berneree]

The thing I miss most is the way your hair stood up when a home run was hit. Tiger Stadium was extremely loud. 15,000 fans at Tiger Stadium is definitely louder than 40,000 at Comerica, at Comiskey, or at Wrigley.

Comerica is much better than Tiger Stadium though. The view of Detroit beyond the outfield walls is fantastic though.

[OldTimey]

The criticisms people have of Comerica Park are more "it's not Tiger Stadium" than anything.

And Troppens, how is COmerica Park less affordable than other ballparks, especially the new ones?

[MotownRandy]

Originally posted by berneree
The thing I miss most is the way your hair stood up when a home run was hit. Tiger Stadium was extremely loud. 15,000 fans at Tiger Stadium is definitely louder than 40,000 at Comerica, at Comiskey, or at Wrigley.

Comerica is much better than Tiger Stadium though. The view of Detroit beyond the outfield walls is fantastic though.

It was louder because of the structure of the stadium. Tiger Stadium was enclosed and was built more straight up. Comerica park is wide open so the sound is not contained. That's why domes are louder than normal open air stadiums.

I agree though, the view is terrific.

[berneree]

Yeah,

TS also rumbled. The old ones kind of feel like a wooden rollercoaster. They make you think they are going to collapse with all the rumbling.

The new ones are build to solid. Kind of like the magnum at Cedar Point. They are sleek, clean, and shiny, but they really lack the nostalgia of taking the ride.

[DetroitFolly]

I loved Tiger Stadium, and I like Comerica Park. All she needs is some GOOD memories, and we'll be OK.

http://www.freep.com/photos/timeframes/sports/03tfsports.jpg

[DTroppens]

Old Timey,
Sorry I haven't been in this thread in a while and just noticed your question. The answer is you are right - it probably isn't much more expensive (if at all) compared to other ball parks. The thing that bothers me is paying something like $15 for one of 81 home games and getting a seat in the third deck near left field for a decent amount of cash. Maybe that's not just true at Comerica Park and includes all of MLB but the fact is it's hard to pay even that type of money for a seat that the players look like ants from (if you can see them at all because the sun is probably blaring in your eyes).

I will continue to contend about 15,000 seats at Comerica Park are decent. The rest are garbage in my mind. People gripe about the posts at Tiger Stadium. I had those seats many times and usually for one-half second you could just shift your head and see the action in the one spot it covered up. And those seats were still more intimate than most at Comerica Park. Watching a game from the second level at Comerica Park is hardly an intimate experience. In TS they were some of the best seats in all of baseball. That's just my opinion of course. I really don't want to get into a heated discussion about it. We all have our own opinions.

[DTroppens]

But this bears repeating. The Lions made a new park which there isn't a bad seat in the place. Makes you wonder why the Tigers couldn't do the same thing.

[Oblong]

DF, thanks for that picture. It both warmed me up and made me want lunch.

this office is freezing.

[DTroppens]

Everyone's taking me seriously!
Of course I lied! I want to duke it out

TIGER STADIUM IS THE BEST!
IT IS THE GOD OF ALL BASEBALL PARKS!
COMERICA IS AN OVERPRICED SCRAP HEAP!

[DTroppens]

Posted by an Old Timey wanna be.

Dave you are an idiot. Comercia Park is God's gift to ballparks and Tiger Stadium is rotting scrap heap.

[DTroppens]

YOU'RE WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

I'm arguing with myself! I need to get a life.


My attempt at some stupid (really stupid) humor.

Please be kind in your remarks (if any).

[bigwes]

oblong rules with the best photo. I grew up in Tiger Stadium. I saw The Bird pitch there, I saw Tananas 87 clincher there, Bergmans MondayNite HR , Greenburgh-Gehringer retirement day, countless openining days, leading the Dempsy Sucks cheer in the bleachers in 84. Copa is too big, bring in the fences,and hope DD knows what hes doing.

[mattie]

The thing that bothers me is paying something like $15 for one of 81 home games and getting a seat in the third deck near left field for a decent amount of cash.

actually, you can get a ticket in the upper deck for $5. also, you can get a ticket in the pepsi porch for $8, which includes a small pop and a pizza/hot dog.

[holygoat]

Anyone who worrys about how to build a stadium to improve their team is probably not gonna build a very good team. Good teams win games irrespective of their stadium. So Sandlot's list of "off-limits" reasons is silly.