Are we slumping, or have other teams "figured us out"?

[Domino]

A few days ago IdahoBert made what I thought was an excellent post which was buried in a 1000+ long game thread, so I thought it probably deserves a separate discussion.


Originally Posted by IdahoBert
It's fruitless to impute subjective motives like not caring or not having a sense of urgency to explain this team's woes. That's just frustration talking. Something more tangible is going on. I think the league has figured out how to exploit the weaknesses of our offense. It's taken time but it's happened. I think this "team wide slump" is more than a slump. Other teams have our number.

I think he could be on to something. What do you think it could be? Is it just that we are a "free swinging team" so pitchers are studying film and trends more and figuring out how to consistently pitch to us and make our bats go completely silent? Something else?

[estrepe1]

Its just a slump.... No team in the history of baseball would all look this bad just because teams have figured them out.

[pyrotigers]

We have alot of veteran hitters with excellent careers, if they were this easily figured out they wouldn't still be in the league...

[jackson_cannery]

We have alot of veteran hitters with excellent careers, if they were this easily figured out they wouldn't still be in the league...

Good point!

Hope!

[Just Some Dude]

My thought is.. teams are stepping up, they know we are for real and they are playing us tough.

[Lbh24]

A few days ago IdahoBert made what I thought was an excellent post which was buried in a 1000+ long game thread, so I thought it probably deserves a separate discussion.



I think he could be on to something. What do you think it could be? Is it just that we are a "free swinging team" so pitchers are studying film and trends more and figuring out how to consistently pitch to us and make our bats go completely silent? Something else?

aside from Shelton and Granderson, i think it'd be a safe assumption that there was some sort of scouting report on all of our regulars before the season ever began. the difference between the good and bad batters are whether or not they can battle a pitcher until he makes a mistake, and then capitalize on those mistakes or adjust to how he is being pitched (depending on count, situation, etc).

for example, in the at-bat where FSD did the pitch-by-pitch last night, in which Magglio was struck out by Neshak (sp?), there were 4 pitches thrown, and all were that little wrinkle.. i believe Maggs fought off the first 2, took the 3rd, and swung and missed at the 3rd. it looked as if he made no adjustment to how he was being pitched, and took that 2-0 fastball swing while in a 1-2 count.

what i'm getting at is that it seems as if it's more that our guys are not making the proper adjustments to the way they are being pitched -- in other words, it's a slump

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

I don' think there is an "explanation" for their hitting woes. To have an entire team hit the wall at the same time is very odd. If it was something simple they could make adjustments. I think it's just one of those things - a huge coincidence that they all slumped at the same time. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Yoda]

I never understood how you can "figure out" a team. I'm not even sure what it means in baseball.

[Just Some Dude]

If we don't make the playoffs we need to make up a curse.. Uh yeah the Tigers failed to make the playoffs because of the Yoda Curse or something :)

[T.O. Tiger Fan]

I never understood how you can "figure out" a team. I'm not even sure what it means in baseball.

I think you can "figure out" a team in football, if the defense picks up on play calling and pass routes, they can "figure out" the offesive schemes of the opponent. But I agree in baseball, there isn't much "figuring out" possible.

[Domino]

I think you can "figure out" a team in football, if the defense picks up on play calling and pass routes, they can "figure out" the offesive schemes of the opponent. But I agree in baseball, there isn't much "figuring out" possible.

I disagree. You can study trends such as this guy always strikes out on a low inside fastball, that guy can't hit a slider on the outside corner, that guy always pops up when it's high inside, etc. That's what I mean by "figuring out".

[Yoda]

I disagree. You can study trends such as this guy always strikes out on a low inside fastball, that guy can't hit a slider on the outside corner, that guy always pops up when it's high inside, etc. That's what I mean by "figuring out".

I agree, but this is usually done over the first couple weeks of the season. It doesn't take major league players, coaches, scouts, etc. a full season to figure these things out. Most of these are established before the season is begun for players that have been in the league before.

Right now I think they're getting the same pitches they've been getting all season. They just aren't hitting them.

[rhino]

aside from Shelton and Granderson, i think it'd be a safe assumption that there was some sort of scouting report on all of our regulars before the season ever began. the difference between the good and bad batters are whether or not they can battle a pitcher until he makes a mistake, and then capitalize on those mistakes or adjust to how he is being pitched (depending on count, situation, etc).

for example, in the at-bat where FSD did the pitch-by-pitch last night, in which Magglio was struck out by Neshak (sp?), there were 4 pitches thrown, and all were that little wrinkle.. i believe Maggs fought off the first 2, took the 3rd, and swung and missed at the 3rd. it looked as if he made no adjustment to how he was being pitched, and took that 2-0 fastball swing while in a 1-2 count.

what i'm getting at is that it seems as if it's more that our guys are not making the proper adjustments to the way they are being pitched -- in other words, it's a slump

Good post.
I tend to lean towards a lack of plate discipline that seems to have permeated the line-up, which to me, is poor preparation on behalf of the hitters. In other words, I don't feel we have been figured out so much, as maybe do to a line up full of guys who haven't played a full year in the majors (recently or ever), they are simply wearing down mentally and physicaly and it is showing in their approach at the plate and the defense in the field.

[jake]

Yeah, they figured us out collectively. Don't throw them anything good unless you have a 3-0 count with the bases loaded in a 1 run game with nobody out in the 9th. It's like facing a team full of Vlad Guerrero's with no real talent.

[DTroppens]

I think a few things are working against us at the same time. Simply teams go through slumps and this is one of ours. It's as simple as that at times and I think that works right now.
Of course I think there are other factors as well. We have a group of players that may be tiring under the mental grind lately. As a group these players haven't gone through anything like this. That does take a toll. And now that we are going through a tailspin a bit, it'll be interesting to see if this team has the mental strength to turn around the adversity they are facing. This is clearly the most adversity they've faced all season. Let's see how they respond. Also I think to a point we've overachieved this year. That's not happening right now and it's presenting some serious concerns.

We're still in first. We're still in better shape when it comes to the wild card than the division. And with the Sox and Twins ending the season with a three-game series against each other, that means someone has to lose each of those games. That plays to our advantage. Hopefully having two days off in four days will help the team relax a bit and prepare for what should be our most exciting stretch run since 1987.

GO TIGERS!

[DrWho17]

Figuring it out doesn't do any good anyway, the pitchers need to pitch it the way they have it "figured out". It isn't a matter of knowing a hitter's strengths or weaknesses, those are widely known, it's a matter of executing the plan to exploit those weaknesses.

[Yoda]

Teams figured out that we swing at a lot of pitches back in April. The difference now is that we aren't hitting the strikes that they do throw.

I'm with Trop. They're all tired and slumping badly. The adrenaline needs to kick in carry them I think.