The 2 hole

[Biff Mayhem]

Who bats in the 2 hole now? Does Leyland ask Pudge to do it?

[Edman85]

Hopefully Guillen, or anybody who can get onbase...

[Charles Liston]

I picked Casey as a guy who seems to get on base. The only problem is that it takes a double to score him from third base, but I think the high on-base pct. is more important than running speed.

[Yoda]

worst thread title ever....

I think it'll be either Casey or Monroe, depending on who's pitching.

[Biff Mayhem]

Hopefully Guillen, or anybody who can get onbase...

I forgot to add Guillen to the poll. I added him and added your vote.

[zachcadillac]

I'd go with Casey. He hits lefthanders reasonably well, so I wouldn't be worried about slotting him after Granderson.

I wouldn't put Guillen in that slot for two reasons: I trust him more than anyone with two or more runners on base; and he has struggled a bit against lefties, meaning the opposing manager could call a southpaw from the pen to handle both Grandy and Guillen.

[pfife]

worst thread title ever....



sometimes its really difficult not to make really bad jokes. I'm having a difficult time right now.
:speech:

[Yoda]

Another thing to consider, I don't think Leyland will put two of his left-handed hitters back-to-back.

[Biff Mayhem]

sometimes its really difficult not to make really bad jokes. I'm having a difficult time right now.
:speech:

This bounty hunter is my kind of scum. Seriously though, the innuendo never even entered my mind when I created the thread.

[chasfh]

worst thread title ever....

I think it'll be either Casey or Monroe, depending on who's pitching.

Or best thread title, depending on your POV.

Casey is an on base guy without much power, so I like him in the ... ahem ... 2-hole. I wouldn't mind seeing Guillen there, either, but since he has more pop, I would rather see Guillen 3 or 4.

My current ideal lineup would look something like this:

Granderson 8
Casey 3
Guillen 6
Thames 7
Ordonez 9
Young 0
Rodriguez 2
Inge 5
Polanco 4

With Polanco out, bat Infante ninth.

Pudge sits, bat Wilson 8th, move everyone else up one.

Monroe plays left, bat him sixth, move Thames to DH, sit Young.

Granderson sits, bat Clevlen top of order.

[ajspence]

You're bunching up your lefties, Chas.

[sammyjankis48]

I voted for Other.

I don't think it will be any one guy. I bet Leyland uses a bunch of players in the 2-hole for a while. Kind of like how the same hitters consistently hit 7-9 but not always in the same order.

I bet Monroe, Infante, Casey, Pudge, etc. all get ABs in the 2-hole.

[djhutch]

My guess is Monroe. I remember Mario/Rod saying earlier in the season that if you can't have a conventional 2-hole hitter there - Leyland likes to have power in the 2 spot in the order. It's something he picked up from Tony LaRussa.

[chasfh]

You're bunching up your lefties, Chas.

I'm floating ny best hitters toward the top of the lineup. What side of the plate they hit from doesn't matter.

[Yoda]

I'm floating ny best hitters toward the top of the lineup. What side of the plate they hit from doesn't matter.

I think it does in terms of preventin the opposing manager from utilizing his bullpen as well as he'd like. If you stagger them, he can't bring in his lefty specialist to face our only left-handed batters since they're not all in a row. That's the only advantage and would only come into play late in the game, but it's worth considering.

[Truth]

Until I read it here last night I would never have thought of putting the slow footed (and that's generous) Casey in the second spot. And with the Tigers lack of an RBI stud, I'd rather leave him lower in the order where he seems to have hit his stride in this lineup.

I'd rather see Pudge or Inge be given a shot.

[tiger337]

I would put Guillen second and Casey third. I don't care too much about left-handers getting bunched at the top of the line-up. I want the best hitters hitting more often.

[chasfh]

I think it does in terms of preventin the opposing manager from utilizing his bullpen as well as he'd like. If you stagger them, he can't bring in his lefty specialist to face our only left-handed batters since they're not all in a row. That's the only advantage and would only come into play late in the game, but it's worth considering.

First of all, my lineup features only two LH in a row. Guillen turns around to the right side against the LOOGY. So from a practical consideration, for this specific lineup, we would not experience the problem you describe.

Second, I'm not in favor of staggering my lineup merely on the off-chance that a LOOGY might come in in the 6th or 7th inning. There's a much greater chance that it won't happen than that it will. My overwhelming consideration would be to get my best hitters more ABs by batting them higher in the order.

[chasfh]

I would put Guillen second and Casey third. I don't care too much about left-handers getting bunched at the top of the line-up. I want the best hitters hitting more often.

While I would prefer the guy with more power to bat third, having a better chance to get an XBH and drive in the two top-of-the-order guys (39% of Guillen's hits are XBH, vs. 30% for Casey), I'm not opposed to your idea.

[tiger337]

While I would prefer the guy with more power to bat third, having a better chance to get an XBH and drive in the two top-of-the-order guys (39% of Guillen's hits are XBH, vs. 30% for Casey), I'm not opposed to your idea.

But Guillen has a better chance to score from first on a Casey double or from second on a Casey single. I'm not sure whether this difference in speed makes up the difference in XBH but it's something to consider.

[Tressel=God]

I don't think there will be one definitive #2 hitter. I think Leyland will shuffle guys there like Inge, Monroe, Casey. If I had my way, the lineup would look like this:

Granderson-CF
Guillen-SS
Ordonez-RF
Young-DH
Pudge-C
Casey-1B
Monroe-LF
Inge-3B
Infante-2B

After looking at this, the righties are bunched at the bottom, but we seem to be hitting righties well this year. I think this would be a good lineup, although what the hell do I know?

[Rooster]

I recall Inge hitting pretty well near the top of the order a few years ago, and that's saying something since his BA has always been under .250. Maybe he can become the kind of 2 hitter Tram was way back when.

[ypsieast]

My lineup:

vs. Righty
(L) Granderson
(R) Pudge
(S) Young
(R) Ordonez
(S) Guillen
(R) Monroe
(L) Casey
(R) Inge
(R) Infante

vs. Lefty
(L) Granderson
(R) Monroe
(R) Pudge
(R) Ordonez
(S) Guillen
(R) Thames
(L) Casey
(R) Inge
(R) Infante

[chasfh]

But Guillen has a better chance to score from first on a Casey double or from second on a Casey single. I'm not sure whether this difference in speed makes up the difference in XBH but it's something to consider.

Other things being equal I agree with this statement, although I think it's more dependent on how and where the ball is hit than how fast the runner is.

I don't necessarily think the consideration is wrong -- just that I wouldn't consider it myself. I think the greater chance of Guillen hitting Casey home with triples and homers offsets whatever advantage Casey might have hitting Guillen home with doubles and singles.

[Yoda]

First of all, my lineup features only two LH in a row. Guillen turns around to the right side against the LOOGY. So from a practical consideration, for this specific lineup, we would not experience the problem you describe.

Second, I'm not in favor of staggering my lineup merely on the off-chance that a LOOGY might come in in the 6th or 7th inning. There's a much greater chance that it won't happen than that it will. My overwhelming consideration would be to get my best hitters more ABs by batting them higher in the order.

I never said it was right or wrong, just that it's something to consider. And knowing Leyland, he's probably more likely to stagger the lineup rather than placing his best hitters at the top.

[rhino]

I would experiment with Infante in the second spot. I think he will be able to match Polanco in terms of production. I like D'meat batting third and Pudge 6th. I wouldn't change the whole order just becaause Polanco went down with an injury. Just plug in Infante and see what happens.

[chasfh]

I never said it was right or wrong, just that it's something to consider. And knowing Leyland, he's probably more likely to stagger the lineup rather than placing his best hitters at the top.

I agree with you that it would likely be a Leyland consideration.

I hope you didn't I was saying you're wrong. I rarely say people are "right" or "wrong", so I hope you didn't take it that way. I'm just saying, in my less-than-circuitous way, what my consideration would be.

[Yoda]

No offense taken, I knew what you meant. It's mutual, I wasn't saying you were wrong either.

I wish 6 p.m. would get here so we could end the guessing game already! :)

[thefunk]

I'm floating ny best hitters toward the top of the lineup. What side of the plate they hit from doesn't matter.

I see now why you're not managing a pro ball club...

[chasfh]

I see now why you're not managing a pro ball club...

Why do you say this?

[Yoda]

Yes, why? There's a lot of evidence that states Chasfh's method provides the mbest chance to score the most runs. There's certainly nothing wrong with it. It's unconventional, but I'd be interested in seeing a team do this more often.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

the cool thing about Leyland, is he makes some screwed up lineups sometimes. I'll go on the whim as if I was drunk an say Thames.

(Although I'd prefer Guillen myself.)

[Moonlight Graham]

Thames.

[spikesglaring]

I'd prefer a platoon of the two hole. Insert Pudge there against lefties & Casey against righties. Guillen would look nice there, but I get the feeling Leyland is happy with Guillen's current slot.

[thewave84]

I like Pudge at #2, but Leyland will probably decide something totally different and it will work out spectacularly.