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Couple of great takes on Baseball's Drug Problem [Archive] - MotownSports.com Message Board

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Edman85
06-08-2006, 10:45 PM
First Will Carroll:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5176


When I heard the Jason Grimsley story on Tuesday afternoon, the first thing that came to mind was...no, the first is unprintable. The second thing that came to mind was “good people are going to get sucked into this.” Logic escapes the performance-enhancement zone with perfect consistency. No one cares that some have been busted--some twice or three times--but everyone is told that Barry Bonds is baseball’s Antichrist. No one cares that more pitchers have tested positive than hitters since tests became public record--and that even before, hitters weren’t getting the advantages credited them. The home runs some tried to take away due to steroids might need a couple tacked on for the juiced-up pitchers they faced. "Give us more speculation!" the public cries. "Feed us a big name that we can wail and gnash our teeth. Feed us someone we once worshipped and let us melt down his Hall of Fame plaque as an offering to the sainted Ruth and Maris. If Barry Bonds used and Jason Grimsley used, then everyone in between must have used, right?"

Wrong. For every one of you that called for testing, you were right to do so. HGH (human growth hormone) and other recombinant versions of naturally occurring chemicals are the next shadow the game will confront, this time with no easy solution, no test on the horizon, and no shady chemist to blame. My position, both before and after writing “The Juice,” was not strong enough and I acknowledge that. But by calling for testing, you must then accept the results and only the results. That leaves us with the moral grey areas, such as Jason Grimsley having not tested positive since results came public. It leaves some wondering if his miraculous comeback from Tommy John surgery wasn’t so miraculous after all. I spoke with his surgeon, Tim Kremchek, this morning. Dr. Kremchek hadn’t heard the news and was dumbfounded. “I don’t prescribe [HGH], I don’t recommend it, and I would never have one of my patients use it,” he told me. It leaves us staring at the abyss of the non-analytic positive or just throwing up the collective hands of the game and handing over the wand to WADA. With the Grimsley case just beginning, and names--in the words of Dan Patrick, “shocking names”--hiding behind the black marker of Jeff Novitzky, we’re only at the beginning of this story. Novitzky’s pen is likely to get more use in the coming months, checking names off the list he’s working from of implicated players with past positive tests and connections to the illegal use of performance-enhancing drugs.

We just cannot jump to conclusions. We must remain grounded in fact and science rather than wild speculation. The truth is bad enough and getting worse.

And now Jayson Stark:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2474247


Before Tuesday, Jason Grimsley's biggest claims to fame were: (A) he's the guy who once crawled through the drop ceiling at the new Comiskey Park (now called U.S. Cellular Field) to rescue Albert Belle's corked bat, and (B) he was once traded, even-up, for Curt Schilling, just before Schilling became Curt Schilling.

But from now on, Jason Grimsley is going to have a different claim to fame.

What Jose Canseco was to the steroid mess, Jason Grimsley now represents for the human growth hormone crisis, which is soon to erupt in a congressional caucus, or in a commissioner's office, or on a talk-show frequency near you.

Why is it such a monstrous deal -- for baseball and all the major pro sports -- that Grimsley allegedly was caught, red-handed, with HGH? Not to mention that he reportedly has since named a slew of names and told the feds all kinds of fascinating stories? Here are four big reasons:

1. The government is still targeting baseball

Months after the four BALCO defendants plea-bargained and served their time, the government's lead investigator in that case, Jeff Novitzky, is still on the baseball beat.

Jason Grimsley
Jason Grimsley began his big-league career in 1989, and has played for seven different teams.
Which tells us BALCO was never just about Victor Conte or Greg Anderson. It was about the federal government's relentless fervor to clean up pro sports in general and baseball in particular.

Remember, it was the attorney general of the United States who personally announced the BALCO indictments. And the book "Game of Shadows" meticulously details the government's near-obsession with exposing the widespread use of performance-enhancing drugs by some of baseball's biggest names.

But when those BALCO defendants copped their pleas, it looked as if the heat was off. Uh, guess again.

First, it was Barry Bonds being aggressively targeted by the BALCO grand jury for a possible perjury indictment. Now comes more evidence that the same investigators who brought you the BALCO case are still roaring away, looking into other players and their use of a wide variety of substances.

If they could track a delivery of HGH to Jason Grimsley, then compel Grimsley to drop names, who else can they connect these dots to? What names are next on their shopping list? These are questions that are making a lot of people in baseball cringe today.

2. This is the smoking gun on high

For the first time since baseball instituted its new steroid policy, we have a major league player allegedly admitting -- to federal investigators, as noted in the affidavit -- that the loopholes in the new policy caused him to switch his substance of choice.

To -- what else? -- human growth hormone.

Why? Because baseball began testing for the stuff he used to take. It's that simple.

But baseball doesn't test for HGH, because (at least for now) there is no effective test that accurately detects HGH, and because the players' union has never been willing to allow any kind of blood testing -- the only kind of testing that eventually will work for HGH.

So this essentially announces -- to Congress, to Bud Selig, to the union, to all of us -- that players were well aware that they essentially had a free pass to use HGH. And we now know that at least one player took that free pass and never thought twice about it.

Not until the feds showed up at his front door, at least.

We should say here that no one thinks the use of HGH is anywhere near as rampant as steroid use once was in baseball. But on the other hand, nobody is naive enough to think Jason Grimsley is the only player who may have used it.

And if he has pointed investigators in the direction of other players, and to his distributor, this scandal is going to get worse. Much worse. Because you have to figure names much bigger than Jason Grimsley are going to be all over the headlines at some point.

This is also a clear signal to Congress that MLB -- and other sports -- aren't doing enough to attack the use of HGH, and that their current policies are essentially open invitations to use it at will.

We've already seen how much our friends in Congress enjoy pontificating on this issue. So we can expect them to pontificate some more any time now -- which could mean a whole new full-court press on baseball and other sports to address this problem. Or else.

If you remember what happened the last time Congress brought Bud Selig and Don Fehr to Capitol Hill for a clean-this-up-or-else session, you'll no doubt love the sequel.

3. Jason Grimsley is Forrest Gump
It isn't true that Grimsley has played with every single player in history. But for federal-investigative purposes, he's the next-best thing.

No, he hasn't been a teammate of everybody. But ...

He connects the late 1980s, when steroid use was just getting trendy, to the post-testing age we now live in.

He played with the Phillies of the early 1990s, with a bunch of players who went on to become a major part of the worst-to-first saga of their 1993 World Series runner-up team.

He played with the Indians of the mid-'90s, on a team of mashers that eventually grew into the only club in the past 70 years to score 1,000 runs in a season.

He played with the Yankees of 1999 and 2000, teams that won back-to-back World Series.

And he played with the Orioles of 2004-05, with guys named Rafael Palmeiro and Sammy Sosa.

Not to mention the '96 Angels or the 2006 Diamondbacks, or the three teams (Astros, Tigers and Brewers) that dumped him without bringing him back to the big leagues.

So Grimsley's All-Teammate Team would go on longer than his federal affidavit. It would be a roster hundreds of names long -- many of them really famous names, players who have never been associated with any kind of drug use.

In other words, if any player in baseball were to start naming names, Grimsley would be one guy who would scare the spikes off the many silent users who thought they would escape detection forever.

Well, we know now that he has named those names. Which makes him the worst nightmare ever for way too many of your baseball heroes, past and present.

4. He's a pitcher

It sure is funny how, when we hear the names of players in the news these days in connection with the use of performance-enhancing drugs, a shockingly high percentage of them don't specialize in hitting home runs for a living.

They pitch.

Yet the use of these substances by pitchers remains the most under-discussed aspect of the most over-discussed sports story of modern times.

So isn't it time we all woke up?

The everybody-used-steroids-to-cheat-and-hit-home-runs conspiracy theory has been oversimplified to the point of hysteria.

The lots-of-guys-used-steroids-to-heal-and-recover-and-possibly-throw-harder part of this story -- particularly by pitchers just like Grimsley -- has been just about ignored to the point of absurdity.

Jason Grimsley represents the most powerful evidence yet that way too many people have spent way too many hours and words focusing on the most convenient, but not the most prevalent, part of the story.

Well, hello. There's still time to catch on. And the Life and Times of Jason Grimsley is as good an excuse as any to get this right -- finally.

tiger337
06-08-2006, 11:59 PM
Thanks Edman. Those are two good articles.

atomicrod
06-09-2006, 12:28 AM
Understanding that is someone broke the law, it is up to law enforcement to investigate. However there is something a bit ugly with all this and I fear we may see yet another Federal Prosecutor go out pretty much act unchecked with threats, forcing people to defend themselves who may well not be involved. They often times end up prosecuting a lot of fringe people for things outside of what the original investigation was commissioned to do. In addition, the cost of their investigation often times keeps them going longer, just a few more months, a few more dollars and we can bring it all in. In the meantime a lot of unintended consequences occur.

I'm not trying to be political here. Both sides of the asile in Congress are pretty much demanding a big name player's head on a stick. It appears they won't stop till they get it. That is wrong. The Steroid Investigation by Congress was a classic dog and pony show intended to allow Senators TV sound bites and at the same time humiliating baseball.

It's hard to see leaks though the media when start to say all "big names" are involved. That is the same thing Senator McCarthy always said and never produced. I thought investigations and grand jury's were supposed to be sealed. Maybe a Federal Investigator should be appointed to check up on those leaks. I realize that is silly, but where does it stop ?

If the blood tests can't determine if the HGH has been taken, what can realasticly be done about it ? You can prosecute the possession and distrubution of the drug, but short of players policing each other in the locker room it's going to be difficult to do much else.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 08:32 AM
My problem with this kind of stuff, steroids, HGH, whatever, I'm lumping it all into one category, is the pressure it puts on fringe or average players. I don't care if someone wnats to hurt themselves but when there's only a couple of hundred of these high paying jobs a player is forced to make a hard decision. We are talking a financial windfall that can set up 3 or 4 generations. I can't tell you I wouldn't take this stuff if it meant I could get a huge contract. Not for me but for my family.

I would think a majority of players would support enforcing something like this but I'm not sure how the players association works. Is it just peer pressure? I bet if some started to speak publicly that it would snowball and the hard liners who are against any type of testing would be overruled.

I'm not excusing any who used. I'm just saying I can't sit here with a straight face and say I wouldn't take the risk if it was between being a 4A player or guy who settles for $1 million a year for a few years or between a Brett Boone who can parlay a few great seasons into mega millions.

atomicrod
06-09-2006, 08:59 AM
I would think a majority of players would support enforcing something like this but I'm not sure how the players association works. Is it just peer pressure? I bet if some started to speak publicly that it would snowball and the hard liners who are against any type of testing would be overruled.


From what I understand, and I'll admit up front I could be wrong, is there is no accurate test for HGH. According to Baseball Tonight there are some who want to take blood tests now and store them hoping that someday a test will be available. What that would solve rectroactivily I have no idea. For example: Player X got a 4 year 50 million dollar deal. After that contract was up it's found out he tested postive. Player X still has 50 million dollars and worse case he's facing a criminal prosecution and can afford a good lawyer. Exposed or not, he's reaped the benefit already. I suppose you would write something in the contract about testing positive, but good luck finding a collection agency that can get that money back.

To me it appears that until an actual test is available the players are responsible to police this. I'm not sure how they can do this. If there is one thing all people have a short tolarance for it's hyprocracy.

As you pointed out, for me it would be a difficult decesion on taking HGH or not. If I was a AAA player and needed it to break into the majors I don't know if I could turn HGH down if it could get me there. This can mean millions of dollars. There is so much money in play in baseball that everyone will try to get every advantage possible.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 09:28 AM
Retroactive testing could work if it were written into player contracts. "I, (name of player), swear to be playing within the rules and guildelines of MLB's drug policy..." The player then submits regular blood samples. As new tests evolve, the player's blood can be tested for substances banned at the time of the sample's submission. If a new test shows HGH was present, the player would forfeit his contract and could possibly owe money back to the team.

We've seen NFL organizations go after signing bonuses. I'm sure this would be treated much the same way, as a breach of contract.

In fact, I believe this would lead to more players staying clean. If a player knows a blood submission will stay in circulation indefinitely, they'll be more apt to ensure the sample is clean.

qsilvr2531
06-09-2006, 10:29 AM
Retroactive testing could work if it were written into player contracts. "I, (name of player), swear to be playing within the rules and guildelines of MLB's drug policy..." The player then submits regular blood samples. As new tests evolve, the player's blood can be tested for substances banned at the time of the sample's submission. If a new test shows HGH was present, the player would forfeit his contract and could possibly owe money back to the team.

We've seen NFL organizations go after signing bonuses. I'm sure this would be treated much the same way, as a breach of contract.

In fact, I believe this would lead to more players staying clean. If a player knows a blood submission will stay in circulation indefinitely, they'll be more apt to ensure the sample is clean.

It wouldn't have to be a breach of contract (or even written into the contract) if they wrote it into the CBA. But you have to get players to agree to blodd testing, which at the moment can't really detect anything above and beyond what the current methods detect. Onec a valid test for HGH shows up, I expect the players union will face a TON of pressure to allow blood testing, which would make something like the plan you outlined possibly work.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 11:29 AM
My problem with this kind of stuff, steroids, HGH, whatever, I'm lumping it all into one category, is the pressure it puts on fringe or average players. I don't care if someone wnats to hurt themselves but when there's only a couple of hundred of these high paying jobs a player is forced to make a hard decision. We are talking a financial windfall that can set up 3 or 4 generations. I can't tell you I wouldn't take this stuff if it meant I could get a huge contract. Not for me but for my family.

I would think a majority of players would support enforcing something like this but I'm not sure how the players association works. Is it just peer pressure? I bet if some started to speak publicly that it would snowball and the hard liners who are against any type of testing would be overruled.

I'm not excusing any who used. I'm just saying I can't sit here with a straight face and say I wouldn't take the risk if it was between being a 4A player or guy who settles for $1 million a year for a few years or between a Brett Boone who can parlay a few great seasons into mega millions.


I think this is part of what's happening and I think many many players probably cave into the pressure relatively easily. They really have to if they want to keep up with their peers. I believe it gets to the point where it's not really thought of as cheating because so many players do it. It becomes a matter of surviving or not surving in the majors. It's not a situation I'd want to face.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 11:45 AM
Sorry, but I've got no sympathy.

Grown men. Uber-athletes. 'Heroes' if you will. Millionaires playing a children's game in the sun. Idolized by the masses.

And we're supposed to feel bad because these can't handle some perceived peer pressure?

tiger337
06-09-2006, 12:02 PM
Sorry, but I've got no sympathy.

Grown men. Uber-athletes. 'Heroes' if you will. Millionaires playing a children's game in the sun. Idolized by the masses.

And we're supposed to feel bad because these can't handle some perceived peer pressure?

I don't really feel sorry for them. I can just see what would motivate so many of them to take steroids. And being a major league player is not nearly as simple as you suggest.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Correct.

Imagine not seeing your family from mid February to October. Sure the pay is very nice but it's still a sacrifice.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Sorry, but I've got no sympathy.

Grown men. Uber-athletes. 'Heroes' if you will. Millionaires playing a children's game in the sun. Idolized by the masses.

And we're supposed to feel bad because these can't handle some perceived peer pressure?

I don't really feel sorry for them. I can just see what would motivate so many of them to take steroids. And being a major league player is not nearly as easy as you suggest.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Becoming a player isn't simple. Being one? C'mon...it's a labor of love at worst.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 12:13 PM
Becoming a player isn't simple. Being one? C'mon...it's a labor of love at worst.

There are definately some good things about being a major league player but it's still a job with intense pressure and constant media and fan scrutiny. I don't see it as an easy job - not if you want to keep your job or get better at it.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 12:21 PM
Your portrail of the life of an MLB player is reminiscent of a glass half-full.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:03xEANgfnZ7R_M:beancounterblog.com/wp-content/images/thumb-glass.half.full.jpg

In reality, the glass is more like this:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:z_5ot_JrL_553M:www.phoenix5.org/essaysry/graphics/cocktailFlower.jpg

The life of the MLB player is so tough that none of us would trade our lives for it in a millisecond.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 12:37 PM
Your portrail of the life of an MLB player is reminiscent of a glass half-full.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:03xEANgfnZ7R_M:beancounterblog.com/wp-content/images/thumb-glass.half.full.jpg

In reality, the glass is more like this:

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:z_5ot_JrL_553M:www.phoenix5.org/essaysry/graphics/cocktailFlower.jpg

The life of the MLB player is so tough that none of us would trade our lives for it in a millisecond.

The grass is always greener.....

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 12:40 PM
The grass is always greener.....

You're kidding, right? In the history of baseball, how many guys have walked away from the game because it was too much work? Compare that relative few with the mulitude of players that do everything they can to squeeze out one more day in MLB.

They do it because the grass IS a whole lot greener on their side of the fence.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 12:47 PM
You are arguing a point that we haven't made. We aren't saying that it's too hard. We are saying it's not as easy as you make it out to be. You are the one exxagerating things.

I believe it takes a lot of determination and hard work to make the major leageus and that there have been plenty of athletes who haven't made it for the sole reason that they were not willing to work as hard as required. I also believe there are guys who did make it but didn't last because they were not willing to do all that it took to maintain that level. Maybe they got lazy because they got some money or because they decided to hang out with the girls instead of working out or practicing.

You are not just born with the skills.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 12:52 PM
You're kidding, right? In the history of baseball, how many guys have walked away from the game because it was too much work? Compare that relative few with the mulitude of players that do everything they can to squeeze out one more day in MLB.

They do it because the grass IS a whole lot greener on their side of the fence.

They don't walk away because they like getting paid. How many people do you know who walk away from any job when they know their next job will give them a massive pay cut?

When I was younger, I dreamed of being a major league player. I'd still probably trade my life for it for a while but I honestly don't see it as that attractive of a lifestyle anymore. The pay is great but once you get used to a cetain pay level, you get used to it no matter how much it is and it goes back to being a job again. It's a high pressure job with a lot media and fan scrutiny. There's lots of travelling and it's really hard to settle into any normal lifestyle. You get can get traded to another city or demoted to the minors without notice. Everywhere you go, fans are bugging you.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 12:55 PM
I thought of this after I had kids. It was a nice day and I was with my family in the park. We were having a good time. Then I realized that if I did get to be a baseball player I wouldn't be able to do that. I think about that a lot now that I go to my son's soccer and baseball games. I would'nt be there. I'd be in Kansas City grinding it out on a 90 degree day playing a game that didn't really matter except for a paycheck.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 01:00 PM
You are arguing a point that we haven't made. We aren't saying that it's too hard. We are saying it's not as easy as you make it out to be...You are not just born with the skills.

As I stated, becoming a major league player is the hard part. Being a major league player is easy. These guys are living their dream. They aspired to this. They are getting paid to keep themselves in top physical condition. They are getting paid to be idolized. What a sacrifice.

Sure, these guys have to spend time on the road away from their families. (It's got to be such a drag travelling first-class around the country, staying in four-star hotels with a bunch of teammates.)

...And they have to constantly workout to maintain physical condition. ("You're paying me to workout in a team provided facility? And you'll provide the trainers? And you'll pay me?"

Though it's not sports-related, I remember an article from years ago where Demi Moore was asked how she could work out six hours a day in preparation for G.I. Jane or Striptease. She said it's easy when you're getting paid millions to do it. It becomes your job.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 01:30 PM
Being a major league player is easy.

Simply put. That's wrong.

qsilvr2531
06-09-2006, 01:43 PM
As I stated, becoming a major league player is the hard part. Being a major league player is easy. These guys are living their dream. They aspired to this. They are getting paid to keep themselves in top physical condition. They are getting paid to be idolized. What a sacrifice.

Sure, these guys have to spend time on the road away from their families. (It's got to be such a drag travelling first-class around the country, staying in four-star hotels with a bunch of teammates.)

...And they have to constantly workout to maintain physical condition. ("You're paying me to workout in a team provided facility? And you'll provide the trainers? And you'll pay me?"

Though it's not sports-related, I remember an article from years ago where Demi Moore was asked how she could work out six hours a day in preparation for G.I. Jane or Striptease. She said it's easy when you're getting paid millions to do it. It becomes your job.

If it was easy being a major league player, then why does anyone ever retire? Traveling first class is nice. Not sure why going with a bunch of teammates is that exciting, considering you probably barely know half of them. Leaving your wife and kids behind probably isn't all the much fun (though if you are the kind of guy that likes having lots of mistresses, then it's not to bad I suppose. If you actually like your wife though, it's basically a 6 month long distance relationship every year.).

I'm not saying you should feel sorry for them (I don't), or condone illegal drug use, but acting like once you get to the majors you've got it easy is a ridiculous oversimplification.

Charles Liston
06-09-2006, 02:10 PM
It was just a throwaway line but Will Carroll mentions WADA. the World Anti-Doping Agency or something like that. They're led by a guy named Dick Pound (seriously) who is a complete knucklehead, always going off half-cocked (hey that's a great Dick Pound metaphor eh?) and actually losing credibility for the anti-drugs movement. Case in point - the recent "Lance Armstrong's sample from 6 years ago was positive" fiasco. So please, no role for them in baseball.

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 03:19 PM
C'mon guys. By quoting me out of context, it's easy to make it seem as though, "Being a major league player is easy" is an out-of-line statement. My point was, do you think a guy like Nook Logan -- had a taste of the majors, fighting to get back and gets paid pretty well by standards in the USA -- really laments not opting to become a plumber? Do you think he turns out the light at night and wonders if he made the right career choice?

When you add it all up, is it easy getting to the majors? No. It takes talent, hardwork and dedication (and maybe even a bit of luck). But do MLB players dream about being someone else? Someone ordinary? Hardly.

qsilvr2531
06-09-2006, 03:25 PM
C'mon guys. By quoting me out of context, it's easy to make it seem as though, "Being a major league player is easy" is an out-of-line statement. My point was, do you think a guy like Nook Logan -- had a taste of the majors, fighting to get back and gets paid pretty well by standards in the USA -- really laments not opting to become a plumber? Do you think he turns out the light at night and wonders if he made the right career choice?

When you add it all up, is it easy getting to the majors? No. It takes talent, hardwork and dedication (and maybe even a bit of luck). But do MLB players dream about being someone else? Someone ordinary? Hardly.

Well, Larry Walker dreamed about being an NHL Hockey player, but apparently he wasn't good enough.

I imagine that considering the amount of work and determination it takes to be among the 800 best players in the world you have to be an extremely special kind of athlete to be able to make the major leagues if it wasn't your dream.

People dream of winning an olympic gold medal, or even becoming an olympian. I'm sure most olympians don't dream about being someone ordinary either. That doesn't mean I think it's easy being a major leaguer and it certainly doesn't mean I'd want to have to deal with all the crap major leaguers deal with (though for a couple million dollars I'd be willing to fake it for a year or two. Of course, my willingness to fake it means even if I were talented enough to do the job I'd probably never make it).

And I have a really hard time understanding how you are helping your point. Basically you are saying these guys are willing to do anything it takes to get, what is according to you at least, a great job and a great life. It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with peer pressure, so much as it has to do with the fact that baseball fans have made being a baseball player about as good a life as anyone can hope for. So why are we confused when baseball players are willing to actually do whatever it takes to have that life?

Canon Fodder
06-09-2006, 03:31 PM
I truly believe if anyone on this board had the talent to be a scrub, benchwarming, 4-A player in the MLB, they would trade their current lifestyle for it in a millisecond.

And I believe anyone on this board that wouldn't is lying to themselves.

qsilvr2531
06-09-2006, 03:42 PM
I truly believe if anyone on this board had the talent to be a scrub, benchwarming, 4-A player in the MLB, they would trade their current lifestyle for it in a millisecond.

And I believe anyone on this board that wouldn't is lying to themselves.

If I had to trade my marriage for those things, I wouldn't even consider it. And I feel pretty sorry for anyone on this board that feels otherwise.

If I didn't have to make any sacrafices to my personal life other than time apart, I'd do it even if it was only for the pay raise. If I had an unlimited supply of money I would never consider it.

And again, what's your point? Other than suggesting that anyone would apparently give up everything and anything (obviously including taking performance enhancing drugs at the risk of their lives) they have to be a 4-A player in the MLB.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 03:49 PM
I truly believe if anyone on this board had the talent to be a scrub, benchwarming, 4-A player in the MLB, they would trade their current lifestyle for it in a millisecond.

And I believe anyone on this board that wouldn't is lying to themselves.

right now? No way. I have 2 small kids and I love being with them in the evening and on the weekends. I like watching them grow up. I also like being with my wife every day. Sorry, I wouldn't do it.

If I were single or didn't have kids I would do it. But not now. I enjoy what I have too much.

And ball players do lament not being able to watch their kids grow up. That's why so many of the guys who retire now don't do anything but shuttle their kids around. Not becuse they can afford to but because they want to make the time up. I also have heard that athletes have pretty high divorce rate once they retire because they are suddenly with their families a lot more and realize they don't really like each other.

tiger337
06-09-2006, 04:05 PM
I truly believe if anyone on this board had the talent to be a scrub, benchwarming, 4-A player in the MLB, they would trade their current lifestyle for it in a millisecond.

And I believe anyone on this board that wouldn't is lying to themselves.

I would love the money and love playing ball but I honestly would not like the lifestyle very much. I'd put up with the lifestyle for a certain length of time but I just don't consider it to be an ideal existence as you do. Staying in hotels - no matter how good they are would be a drag, staying there with a bunch of guys I don't know that well personally would be a drag too. Having to pretend to be a shallow person because ballplayers frown on intellectuals (this is what Jim Bouton said he had to do), being pressured to take drugs because some teammates don't respect you if you play totally clean, being bothered by fans and media constantly.... That lifestyle doesn't do it for me. So, yeah I'd do it for a while and would love the memories but I don't consider it an easy lifestyle.

Tyrus
06-09-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm not going to lie -- if I could take steroids and become a great major league ballplayer, making enough money to ensure the next 10 generations of my family would live comfortably, I'd use them in a New York minute. Give me the syringe.

That said, I think Congress's "concern" about this issue is a red herring. My guess is, the medical lobbyists would love to get their well-manicured hands on the multi-billion dollar supplement industry, and would love to have the FDA "regulate" the supplement industry, thus making supplements available only by prescription.

So Congress works overtime to "shed light" on the "steroid issue," and its effects on "the children." I've already seen several stories which discuss teen athletes' use of steroids and other supplements like creatine.

Call me a cynic, but I have a hard time believing Congress is working so hard on this issue because they care deeply about our national pasttime, or "the children."

When it comes to Congress, there's usually more to the story. Follow the money.

Oblong
06-09-2006, 04:17 PM
yeah, Congress needs to butt out. But then again, if they focus on stuff that in the grand scheme of things is rather trivial then it keeps them from their regular work of screwing everything up.

I traveled a lot in 2000 for work. It got old very fast. "Hey look, I'm in Kansas City. They've got a Best Buy too. Cool"

Atom
06-09-2006, 04:17 PM
Simply put. That's wrong.

Damn straight. Lets see one of you try hitting a curve ball.

Regards,

Omar Infante

In all seriousness, the life of a pro athlete is up there near the pinnacle of existence in modern society. Financial freedom, sports/luxury cars, yachts, mansions, butlers, millions of adoring fans...a tenth of which are female and further quarter of the 1/10 of which are attractive and willing.

And all you have to do is workout year round and play 162 games a year.

Is it "easy" per se? Depends on the person and it depends on your definition. Is a 8-5 office job "easy"? Is a landscaping job "easy"? A pro ball player's job is as easy as it is to workout for a few hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week year round. The games are the fun part and all of that "grueling" work becomes a hell of a lot easier when you're cashing $400,000+ checks EVERY MONTH for accomplishing that work.

OldTimey
06-09-2006, 04:20 PM
When it comes to Congress, there's usually more to the story. Follow the money.

Didn't you read the first sentence you wrote in that post?