Ordonez Trade? [Archive] - MotownSports.com Message Board

estrepe1

04-19-2006, 01:29 AM

Its too early to trade someone. And it is unlikely anyone will take on Ordonez right now.

We are stuck with his contract and the hope that he turns it around.

As bad as Helton's contract is he still is hitting the ball at very good levels.

If the Tigers fall out of the race come June... the name to watch on the trade block is Ivan Rodriguez. Especially if he is having a good season.

One Man's Fool

04-19-2006, 06:47 AM

The only move with Ordonez that has a chance of working is to try to get as much production out of him as possible. We will probably never get $12 to $15 million's worth in performance, but it's just like I've said about Dmitri's contract. That's spilled milk. If you overpay a guy and then you constantly compare what he's giving you to what you think he should be giving you for the money, you're going to drive yourself bonkers.

djhutch

04-19-2006, 06:48 AM

It makes absolutely no sense to trade for Helton.

tiger paw paw

04-19-2006, 08:52 AM

We were in a bad bad place when we signed Ordonez. We still needed to over pay for a big name to show that we were willing to try to improve. We took a flyer and it has not work out, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad move. He has yet to be fully healthy (and he may never be), but it is still too early this year to give up. What would you say if we dumped him and he got fully healthy and returned to his past form?

Motor City Sonics

04-19-2006, 09:37 AM

The Tigers would have to eat more than half of that contract to trade him. Get used to Maggs the Tiger.

Brent

04-19-2006, 10:31 AM

There isn't a contract in MLB that is as untradable as his.

djhutch

04-19-2006, 10:45 AM

There isn't a contract in MLB that is as untradable as his.

Helton's is pretty close. Maybe Ken Griffey Jr's. But I get your point.

baseball3

04-19-2006, 11:26 AM

Nobody would want Maggs and his expensive contract. He is not in shape, can't play defense and hits occassionally. He's (realistically and truthfully) useless at this point in his career...............it's sad because he's got a monster contract, but, is not helpful except in his occassional offensive bright spots!

This is just the truth...

Corky

04-19-2006, 11:44 AM

baseball3

04-19-2006, 11:56 AM

I think it's the REALITY squad that's working here !!

Things are what you see and it's not pretty..........AND, don't be surprised if it doesn't change for the better as we move into May and beyond

jadefalcon

04-19-2006, 11:57 AM

If we could get Helton for Maggs, I would pass out from all the joy.

Just think of the possibilities: 3-Helton, 4-Shelton...unstoppable

Doesn't maggs usually start out slow anyways?

tiger337

04-19-2006, 12:08 PM

The Tigers would have to eat more than half of that contract to trade him. Get used to Maggs the Tiger.

He's going to be really popular in Detroit if the Tigers allow his two vested option years (years 6 and 7) to kick in like they did with Young last year.

Oblong

04-19-2006, 12:14 PM

That's the bummer part. You want him to either suck or be hurt the last year so that he can't play or else it's really really really bad.

Al de Blanc

04-19-2006, 12:22 PM

As I hoped, some positives about Maggs came out. I agree that "it is still too early this year to give up." It really is. Too many members of the panic squad running around.
Thanks for sticking up for my adopted one. My guess is that going into this year most of us were holding our breath hoping that Mags would revert to past form and also would have a healthy year. He did not report as a "lean, mean fighting machine" , nor did he totally let himself go, but could have reported in better shape. Even though some of you have decided not to hold your breath any longer, we are not out of April yet. I'm still waiting for Mags (and Monroe and others for that matter) to start hitting the ball squarely so the fun can start. Call me out at the start of June if need be.

baseball3

04-19-2006, 12:45 PM

No, I think what most people would like to see would be the 35+ HR and some defense from time to time which is what was expected when he signed his DA** contract!! Production which would be close to earning his pay would be nice, not what the organization has gotten nor is getting at this point

thewave84

04-19-2006, 01:30 PM

Even though it looks downright ugly so far, I haven't given up. There is still a decent chance that some of the old hitting ability will come back.

estrepe1

04-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Helton's is pretty close. Maybe Ken Griffey Jr's. But I get your point.

At least Helton is productive.

Magglio could be as well. Although I doubt he ever lives up to the 15 million a year he will make I would be fine if he at least was somewhat productive... get on base and hit for a bit of power and I will be fine....

tiger337

04-19-2006, 01:43 PM

That's the bummer part. You want him to either suck or be hurt the last year so that he can't play or else it's really really really bad.

That's the problem with all long term deals. You want the guy to do either really well or be a miserable enough failure so he doesn't stay in the line-up. The worst thing that can happen (and which often does happen) is you get mediocre performance from some guy who has to play in order to justify his large salary.
I'm not saying that's going to happen to Ordonez right away but there's a good chance that's the way it's going to be at some point in the next 6 years.

Al de Blanc

04-19-2006, 01:53 PM

That's the problem with all long term deals. You want the guy to do either really well or be a miserable enough failure so he doesn't stay in the line-up. The worst thing that can happen (and which often does happen) is you get mediocre performance from some guy who has to play in order to justify his large salary.
I'm not saying that's going to happen to Ordonez right away but there's a good chance that's the way it's going to be at some point in the next 6 years.
I don't disagree. Maybe at some point the Tigers will be able to sign FA contracts that won't blow the last couple of years. For now though we have to expect it and hope for some payback. Also, I could be wrong, but when Maggs signed nobody mentioned or expected anything but mediocre defense from him and we knew about the knee problem. Complaining about his fielding at this point is just piling on.

TigerPride

04-19-2006, 03:45 PM

Helton's is pretty close. Maybe Ken Griffey Jr's. But I get your point.

I'd take Griffey and his remaining 3+ years over Ordonez and his 3+ remaining years. (not counting any possible option years that kick in)

The Tigers would be so lucky that the Reds would be that stupid. Griffey would still be cheaper, more productive and off-set part of his cost by drawing more fans to the games. At least the Tigers would have another LH bat in the lineup.

The only way the Tigers get rid of Ordonez is, (1) He is having a decent year (2) They take on another contract that's not quite as bad as his (3) They throw in some prospects to boot.

Why in the $hit did they sign him to a contract like that, after they dodged the bullet on the Juan Gonzales bad contract? All they had to do was wait a little longer and the prospects like Shelton, Granderson, Verlander & Zumaya would have made this team ready to contend. The Ordonez money could have been used to THEN go after the missing free agent pieces.

Before it's over, the bad Ordonez contract will be what keeps the Tigers from getting the player or players that would put them over the top.

AlaskanTigersFan

04-19-2006, 03:49 PM

DaYooperASBDT

04-19-2006, 03:59 PM

We could get Barry Bonds. :cheeky:

eastside billee

04-19-2006, 05:53 PM

I stand behnd Maggs at this point also. Let's wait a year and see what we have.

estrepe1

04-19-2006, 06:04 PM

I am definitely willing to give Magglio time. I don't think this contract will end up being very favorable for the Tigers though.

Bonderman38

04-19-2006, 07:05 PM

I'm going against everyone. I think Maggs will be worth his money. I also think he will be a .300/30/95 hitter this year. Take notes folks, I'm standing behind Magg's 100% an I think we will be thinking he's worth every penny.

I'm with you. I'm not ready to pile on Maggs, I still think he will be productive this season and next. The end of the contract could be trouble, but for the meantime he will be fine. I'm also expecting a .300/30/90 season from Maggs.

fin

04-19-2006, 09:03 PM

I am definitely willing to give Magglio time. I don't think this contract will end up being very favorable for the Tigers though.

What else can you do? There's no way he's going anywhere........
Except maybe the DL.

Hey.. Maybe we could trade for Mussina?:knocked:

jadefalcon

04-19-2006, 09:47 PM

What else can you do? There's no way he's going anywhere........
Except maybe the DL.

Hey.. Maybe we could trade for Mussina?:knocked:

How about Maggs for Sheffield...wouldn't that be fun.

estrepe1

04-19-2006, 09:52 PM

I would love if Sheffield was here.... The Yankees would be insane to make that move though.

I agree that all you can do is give Magglio time.... No way he lives up to the deal for the full length though.

baseball3

04-19-2006, 10:07 PM

djhutch

04-20-2006, 07:35 AM

I'd take Griffey and his remaining 3+ years over Ordonez and his 3+ remaining years. (not counting any possible option years that kick in)

The Tigers would be so lucky that the Reds would be that stupid. Griffey would still be cheaper, more productive and off-set part of his cost by drawing more fans to the games.

I hadn't even considered the drawing of fans to the game. I don't know that the Reds would make this deal, but I wouldn't be against it. Still, Griffey does have an even longer injury history than Magglio.

Biff Mayhem

04-20-2006, 07:56 AM

Last time the Tigers aquired players to draw people to the game they ended up with Juan Gonzalez as a reluctant RF and Alan Trammell as the manager.

SwinginSoriano

04-20-2006, 08:44 AM

Magglio may wind up being the next Higginson in Detroit. Especially if he manages to player over 135 games in year 5...

djhutch

04-20-2006, 09:14 AM

Last time the Tigers aquired players to draw people to the game they ended up with Juan Gonzalez as a reluctant RF and Alan Trammell as the manager.

This too is a good point.

DaYooperASBDT

04-20-2006, 11:19 AM

Magglio may wind up being the next Higginson in Detroit. Especially if he manages to player over 135 games in year 5...

Sure hope not. If you look at each player's career stats by year, Ordonez appears to be far better than Higginson, on paper.

Ordonez may simply be pressing too much, maybe he just needs to chill and play his way out of the current slump ....

tiger337

04-20-2006, 11:42 AM

There is NOTHING that can be done, we are stuck with him.....that's why I wish he would turn into the 35+ HR guy the front office thought they were getting when they origianlly signed him !

But, it's NOT gonna happen

Ordonez has hit 35+ home runs only once in his career. He's not really a big home run guy and should be expected to be even less of one in Detroit than Chicago( a great home run park) His strengths are hitting for average and getting a lot of doubles. I'd be happy if could do that now. He may have lost something since the injury though.

fin

04-21-2006, 06:53 AM

Magglio may wind up being the next Higginson in Detroit. Especially if he manages to player over 135 games in year 5...

Or Young... Or Pudge.. Or.. Hey, what's the name of that pitcher that we signed for 2 years at $12 million who's only pitched 25 innings?

This seems not to be an isolated incident. Maybe the Tigers should just not sign FA's.

jake

04-21-2006, 10:58 AM

Could the Cubs use him? Could he play some first base for a couple months.

MetroTiger

04-21-2006, 01:48 PM

Honestly at this point if he hits .300+ and gets 70-80 RBI's per season we'll have to deal with it. He's not going to be a .300/40/110 guy, because never was (best season was '02 .320/38/135). In fact I'd take 0 HR's if he'd drive in 100+ we need him for run production not HR's, granted they sometimes go hand-in-hand.

kajoreh

04-21-2006, 02:50 PM

as bad as mags contract is...he's still playing and considered marketable...venezuela wanted him for the classic...and some teams without money issues might take a flier on him if he even looks close to what he once was...at this point his resume is still good enough to get him an interview...even juan gone got on a team this year and when was the last time he even played...

a far bigger problem is dy's contract...that's lots of money to a guy who can't play the field and can't stay healthy enough to even dh...right now there is nobody desperate enough to take him...except maybe the twins...and right now, the way white is hitting, i don't think you could get them to return a call about another tiger...unless you agreed to end up eating a great big pile of steaming "contract" first

ballmich

04-21-2006, 04:47 PM

Maggs is nearly untradable. First, you have to rule out every NL team, because the writing is on the wall in terms of playing a servicable RF. it won't take a scout long to figure out that this guy has 1-2 years left until he's a full time DH. In the AL, rule out all the small market teams, including MN, KC, Oakland, and Tampa. now rule out the white sox, because of his relationship with Guillen and the burned bridges there. essentially that leaves 8 potential trading partners: Cleveland, Seattle, Anaheim, Texas, NYY, Boston, Baltimore and Toronto. Personally, I just don't see a good match with any of these teams. I think we're stuck with him, which probably is a bad thing, but i still haven't given up hope that he can still provide above average offense for a corner OF (albeit probably not enough production to justify his contract).

DaYooperASBDT

04-21-2006, 08:05 PM

Baltimore? They might be dumb enough to take Maggs. They have a track record of spending tons of Angelos cash, and not very well either.

Ordonez will put up some good numbers this season. I would not expect more than 25 homers, but the other numbers will be fine.

Ordonez has historically hit very poorly at Comerica, so he may have to make some adjustments. Perhaps the shortened fence in LF will help his numbers there?

kajoreh

04-22-2006, 02:20 PM

ballmich, i don't completely disagree with you...was just thinking dy is even more untradable than mags...and i do think that of your listed teams you might be able to get one or two of them to bite on him...if...and big ifs'...he can hit again, and he can still play adequate (not above average) defense

1)like was mentioned above the o's make some puzzling moves with their money so you can't ever take them off any list
2)boston is going thru right fielders like nobodies business right now...and money is never an object if it means keeping up with the yanks...and manny may want to leave again tomorrow (now talk about an unmovable contract)
3)seattle won't play him in right with iciro...but they are always looking for hitters...maybe they would swap him for beltre about now after the bust he has been (but would he help us any?)
4)and texas is always doing something that never makes any sense either, so they might always be in play
5)angels might...depending on who stays upright it the outfield...if salmon can hit again... and if any of the young guys they keep talking about and bringing up can ever hit major league pitching
6)yanks have dh's coming out of the woodwork and can't get them all at bats now...so that's no help even with an unlimited bank book
7)cleveland is unlikely due to payrole and they really like the young mashers they have...just getting them to produce consistantly would make his addition unnecessary
8)toronto is doubtful cuz even with the new turf it still too hard on the knees...and they are going to have to get more mileage out of burnett before they start bouncing more checks...but their lineup still seems about one good bat less than it should be, so they might be interested...50/50

Casimir

04-22-2006, 02:38 PM

The guy's had 61 ABs so far this season. A quick look at his career stats by month (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5889/splits;_ylt=As6CGWXy_MsT28Es8yQgSyaFCLcF?year=care er&type=Batting) shows he's a bit of a slow starter. Last season he lost some power, but also dealt with injuries. I agree that his contract stinks, but I don't see the need to pile on the guy for this season just yet. If he can play decent defense in Commercial's RF, stay healthy, and put up a .875 OPS, I think I'll be fine.