Halter's demise

[eastside billee]

Since the Tigers started so poorly, and Shane Halter has literally sucked so far - what would be the harm of using Infante?
It would give the kid a chance to play big league ball. Halter has the least range i've ever seen in a shortstop. THEN - there's Macias. He has no range at 2nd base. When you put the two of them together on the same infield, it's total disaster. Neither of them cover enough ground to be worthy at their positions. Devi Cruz had a lot more range than Halter, and he was considered poor. Easley should be at 2nd and Infante at short -- NOW!

[OldTimey]

I was in Toledo on Tuesday night watching the mighty 'Hens. Infante was a lot of fun to watch. However he didn't look strong enough just yet. I am no scout at all but that was my impression.

I still think leaving Halter there all season and bringing Infante up next year is the wisest course of action for his development. If we do that he has a chance to hit .250. Bring him up now he'll hit .150.

[qsilvr2531]

I think I mentioned this in another topic (maybe on the other board).

Infante is not ready. His numbers at this point make him out to be a replacement level offensive SS with good defense. He is about 21 years old. He has never played in AAA. We are not going to win this year. The harm of bringing Infante up is that instead of being in a place where he is expected to learn, he will be in a place where he will be expected to perform. Why rush him? That is on top of the monetary problems that occur when you bring a player up. If we bring Infante up now, we essentially end up losing a year of service time while he plays at a low level. Why do we want that?

[qsilvr2531]

Oh yeah, and even though I've never been a Halter supporter, I think giving up on him repeating last years season after two weeks would also be a huge mistake.

[MelissaG915]

I'm all for throwing anything out there to see if it sticks. I have such a lame attitude towards the Tigers right now, it's scary.

[holygoat]

I really don't want to see Infante in Detroit this year. at least not until September.

[MotownRandy]

They could also start Damien Jackson at shortstop. I haven't even seen him play this season.

[Enjolras]

I, too, am not ready to write off the Shane Halter Experiment as failed. He is off to a slow start, and eventhough he was one of the players who couldn't afford the bad start, he is our best option at the moment.

However I wouldn't be afraid to call up Omar Infante, should Halters struggles continue. Phil Garner, rightly or wrongly, felt that major league players didn't need much coaching, that by in large what you saw is what you got - whereas Puljos and Alou have the track record for being under the belief that Major League players can and do still improve, and should be learning until the day the retire. They seem ready and willing to teach and in my opinion what better place to learn then from the best players in the world. The only issue I would have with the move would be with Infantes state of mind - Is he fragile and overly self critical or confident in his ability. He's going to make mistakes, but he will also learn from them as well, if he can handle the pressures of the major leagues, then I think it would be in our best short and long term interest to bring him up(If Halters play warrants such a move).

With the high turnover in Montreal, Alou and Puljos often relied on young players, with some success. What ever they decide I will support, as they have the track record and experience when judging when a player is ready for the Show.

President Dombrowski likes defense up the middle, with power coming at the corners. With Infante, Easley, and Torres our defense would be solid, if unspectacular.

[DTroppens]

Reading about Infante and listening to last night's game (the only things I can do about him since I've never seen him play) I don't honestly think he's ready.
I was of the opinion that if he was ready bring him up, but I don't think he's really proven that overwhelmingly.
While people speak of his glove it does seem like he's made a few mental errors in games that I've read about. A year in Toledo isn't going to hurt him.

Maybe during the end of the year when the 40-man roster begins on Sept. 1 or after Toledo's season ends.

By the way folks, after an 0-2 start Toledo is starting to win.

[soakitup]

I don't see what the point would be in bringing Infante up to it doesn't make the team better this year, it doesn't make the team better in the future and most importantly it won't make Infante a better player. I have been skepitical about Infante but he is starting to excite me, I know it's very early and maybe he just isn't confident enough to swing at bad pitches in AAA but he has already taken 6 walks in 8 games. He just needs to be able to that on a regular basis and at 21 years old let's let him concentrate on that for the year. And I don't think at this point he's even a good defensive shortstop he is still making a lot of errors, but at 20/21 he will be. Torres is another story he 24 and had good walk rates two years running, I'd like him to stay in Toledo this year but I don't think it's that big of deal.

[Ranger]

When Jackson is off the DL, let him take over SS. He'll hit more than Infante and field better than Halter.

[qsilvr2531]

How many young position players really improved under Alou? I saw Milton Bradley, Peter Bergeron, Wil Cordero, and Michael Barret all stagnate in the majors under Alou, but I can't think of any guys that came up with holes in their games, and under Alou plugged those holes. Maybe Vidro, but Vlad was a beast of a player on his call up, and didn't really learn anything new in the majors (his walk rate is still low, he still hits for a high average, he still doesn't K much). Moises Alou, Larry Walker, etc... All seem to either be very good from start to finish or to really take off outside of Montreal.

Alou relied on young players in Montreal often, but his leve of success is arguable. When was the last time he had a winning season?

[Evenings with Ernie]

When was the last time he had a payroll above 5 cents?

[JuanGone]

I saw Infante play last night. He's special, but I don't think he's ready. Of course I would argue that Torres isn't ready either, but he's up so... As for Halter, let's not judge him on 2 or 3 weeks, wait a month and if he hitting .098, then say he should be benched.

[Enjolras]

So Filipe Alou is responsible for all of the bad and none of the good with the Expos player development? Either the player has it or he doesn't and the manager plays no role in development at the major league level, or the manager "wins some and loses some" and takes full credit and full blame for the development or lack there of of the prospects or its " a little from column A, a little from column B".

If I remember correctly Juan Encarnacion was all the beast Vlad Guerrero and Andruw Jones were when together in the minor leagues so why did Encarnacion fizzle while Guerrero and Jones sizzled? A lot of managing in the bigs is ego control, Alou got Guerrero to mature and get the most our of his god-given gifts.

Is Alou our savior - heck no, but he'll help a helluva lot more than hurt us.

I agree that we should look for options at the major league level before looking to our farm clubs, but why suffer with a weak hitting/average fielding Shane Halter when you could have an equally weak hitting and better fielding Omar Infante? Infante has a tremendous upside and I guess I fail to see how another year in the minors will make all the difference in the world.

I'd rather have Jackson as our back-up fielder or to replace Easley if we ever could be so lucky as to trade him. But I'd try him at SS before looking to Infante. All these argument for and againts are probably moot since Shane Halter will probably start hitting sooner rather than later. But Puljos did say that they were planning on developing youngsters at the major league level and other than Torres and maybe Rivera who else could he be talking about??

Wasn't Jimmy Rollins 21 yrs old last season??

[qsilvr2531]

Take away Vlad's extra power and better K/BB ratio and you are right, they are the same player. of course, those two things (especially the 2nd) are kinda important. It's really tough to be a successfull hitter if you are striking out 100 times a year and walking 30 (and that is a good year for Juan). Vlad walked more and K'd less from what I remember of his minor league numbers (I don't have the data in front of me). He reached the majors a year earlier (age wise) and still walked more and K'd less.

Jones made the majors before he was allowed to drink. He was rushed by a team tha needed a CF for the playoffs. The Braves were contending and if we were contending right now I'd say put Infante at SS and see what he can do, because he can't be much worse than what we've had. But we aren't, so we should be thinking of development first, and winning games this year second.

Didn't Jimmy Rolins have a full year of AAA under his belt? Didn't the Phillies contend last year (in part because of Rollins I admit)?

Personally, I'd use jackson at SS, and if we can move Easley, Macias at 2B (since Torres is already in CF, if he wasn't I'd use Paquette at 2B). That leaves Halter as utility IF. We won't win many games, but we aren't gonna do that anyway unless someone has a fluke year. Might as well be one of the "veterans."

I prefer to think that the manager has minimal impact on the development of players at the major league level. And my comments reflect that I think. I'm not saying Alou si the reason those guys stunk. I'm saying that the people who like to talk about his ability with young players seem to conviently forget those guys. So I don't think Alou gonna help us more than he'll hurt us, but I don't think he'll hurt us either.

[ToledoTigerFan]

Torres leading off tonight. Good for him, I say! Go get 'em!!!

[Lord Silverkat]

Farewell Shane, we bid you Adieu

[Todd]

can you say bencheddddddddddd halter?

[soakitup]

As long as he didn't fake his birth certificate (he looks very young and customs did not bust him coming back from Venezuela) Infante just turned 20 at the end of last December according to the Tigers website. So let me reinterate I hope they leave Infante in Toledo the whole year so he can concentrate on baseball in a less pressure filled, more supportive and winning environment.

[TigersDraftPick]

the same reason I think Inge should be the Tigers starter instead of Rivera...

Rivera couldnt hit 91 MPH fastballs right down the middle and cant seem to throw many runners out. Plus he dropped an easy picth in the 9th..that got by him and allowed Twins 7th run to score which was a huge run since Tigers got 1st 2 on in 9th.

[Corky]

Halter is playing for the Iowa Cubs this year. Could be that MLB is finally rid of his royal suckethness once and for all. THe Cubs sure didn't call him up when Nomar had his leg amputated (or whatever happened).

Whatta shame.

Was browsing old threads and just felt compelled to reactivate this one.

[beek_27]

Originally posted by Corky
Halter is playing for the Iowa Cubs this year. Could be that MLB is finally rid of his royal suckethness once and for all. THe Cubs sure didn't call him up when Nomar had his leg amputated (or whatever happened).

Whatta shame.

Was browsing old threads and just felt compelled to reactivate this one.

.......14 total posts......and surfin' the 2002 threads..........a true lurker........and Tiger fan!!!!

My first foul ball at CoPa was off his bat....tried to get his autograph on the sweet spot.......why did I even try????

[Corky]

Originally posted by beek_27
.......14 total posts......and surfin' the 2002 threads..........a true lurker........and Tiger fan!!!!

My first foul ball at CoPa was off his bat....tried to get his autograph on the sweet spot.......why did I even try????

A huge fan but more than that - a true Halter hater. When I ran across the subject line of this thread my heart lept at the thought of the demise of Halter.

:ogre:

[Ranger]

Wow, this thread brings up memories....

Damian Jackson, Lord Silverkat, Evenings with Ernie, Enjolras (Left Eye Lopez). Those are some names I havent seen in awhile.

[Corky]

Originally posted by Ranger
Wow, this thread brings up memories....

Damian Jackson, Lord Silverkat, Evenings with Ernie, Enjolras (Left Eye Lopez). Those are some names I havent seen in awhile.

Halter's Demise.

Ah that sounds sweet.

Damian Jackson is still in the majors. Yikes!