Neil Young

[zachcadillac]

Genius.

[eastside billee]

I don't call him a genius.

Very talented songwriter - absolutely.

Pioneer in many genres, yes.

Entertaining, yes.

He was actually my super fave back in the late sixties thru mid 70s. I imitated him terribly.

He's just a heartfelt writer with a style all his own.

[zimm]

sometimes brilliant songwriter. sometimes horrible.

sometimes wonderful personality. sometimes intollerable.

sometimes a wonderful performer. sometimes unlistenable.

[KenK]

Yes, and nevertheless I cannot exactly deny that I do not entirely find all of these comments to be altogether unmeritless.

:classic:

[holygoat]

"Genius" is an overused word.

[zachcadillac]

So is "love." But I think most people realize Neil Young's not Mozart.

[TWolve]

"I heard Neil Young sing about her. I heard ole Neil put her down. I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around anyhow"....that lyric is what ultimately Neil Young will be remembered by. That is the lyric from Lynard Skynard's, "Sweet Home Alabama" which is a song that is far more known then any song Neil Young ever did.

[Biff Mayhem]

It has to be genius since the man cannot sing nor play guitar to save his life. I say that as a Neil Young fan.

[Brent]

Originally posted by TWolve
"I heard Neil Young sing about her. I heard ole Neil put her down. I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around anyhow"....that lyric is what ultimately Neil Young will be remembered by. That is the lyric from Lynard Skynard's, "Sweet Home Alabama" which is a song that is far more known then any song Neil Young ever did.

You mean Lynyrd Skynyrd? the band that has been snubbed from the (everyone gets in) Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Just because a song is more known doesn't mean much. There are allot of songs more well known that Sweet Home Alabama, yet those artists aren't close to being in the same class as Lynyrd Skynyrd.

[snoogit]

who is Neil Young?

[TWolve]

Originally posted by snoogit
who is Neil Young?

Crosby, Stills, Nash and "Sweet Home Alabama."

[SweetLou]

Originally posted by Biff Mayhem
It has to be genius since the man cannot sing nor play guitar to save his life. I say that as a Neil Young fan.



I am definitely not a huge Neil Young fan but I have to say I respect the hell out of the guy. I think he DOES have a good voice. Very Folksy, but a little raw. At least its in tune unlike Dylans unlistenable Peter Brady squeal. I always felt they should do a Dylan night on American Idol. His lyrics with a decent voice might make an enjoyable episode.

[OldTimey]

So far, zach is the only guy with the correct opinion on Neil Young. Congratulations zach.

[tigersfan25]

People only like Neil Young because they are supposed to like him... :cheeky:

[shabba4detroit]

Originally posted by OldTimey
So far, zach is the only guy with the correct opinion on Neil Young. Congratulations zach.


You have never been more wrong.

[tigersfan25]

Originally posted by shabba4detroit
You have never been more wrong.

This is the correct opinion...

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally posted by TWolve
"I heard Neil Young sing about her. I heard ole Neil put her down. I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around anyhow"....that lyric is what ultimately Neil Young will be remembered by. That is the lyric from Lynard Skynard's, "Sweet Home Alabama" which is a song that is far more known then any song Neil Young ever did.
LOL. Your an idiot.:dead:

Hail Hail Southern Man!!!!

[holygoat]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
People only like Neil Young because they are supposed to like him... :cheeky:

That's not far from the truth. I like a lot of Neil Young songs, but I think he's over-rated by music-press types and those who base their opinions on the music press.

[estrepe1]

Originally posted by OldTimey
So far, zach is the only guy with the correct opinion on Neil Young. Congratulations zach.

This is a typical music snob opinion from you.

[tigersfan25]

Originally posted by holygoat
That's not far from the truth. I like a lot of Neil Young songs, but I think he's over-rated by music-press types and those who base their opinions on the music press.

It actually WAS tongue-in-cheek (because of OldTimey using the same argument with certain things he doesn't like), but in this case, it actually is correct.

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by TWolve
"I heard Neil Young sing about her. I heard ole Neil put her down. I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around anyhow"....that lyric is what ultimately Neil Young will be remembered by. That is the lyric from Lynard Skynard's, "Sweet Home Alabama" which is a song that is far more known then any song Neil Young ever did.

Of all the bands I hate, and they are legion, few are as awful as Lynyrd Skynyrd. What worthless garbage.

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
People only like Neil Young because they are supposed to like him... :cheeky:

You've just described my reaction to Pink Floyd.

For my demographic, it's Dave Matthews Band that I'm supposed to worship, even though they suck out loud. But whatever.

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by shabba4detroit
You have never been more wrong.

Do you like anything that is good?

[shabba4detroit]

Originally posted by zachcadillac
Of all the bands I hate, and they are legion, few are as awful as Lynyrd Skynyrd. What worthless garbage.


You're musical opinion is less than worthless.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally posted by zachcadillac
Do you like anything that is good?


As soon as you post something good that you like, I'll answer that question.

[BFK]

I've been a Young fan since his Buffalo Springfield days, but I'd hesitate to call him a genius. Talented singer & songwriter maybe, but that's about as far as I'd go. His guitar playing is an exercise in mediocrity. Master of the one-note solo, he masks his lack of talent with volume.

I last saw him at Pine Knob in '78 on the 'Rust Never Sleeps' tour. The acoustic half of the show was very good. But the electric half with Crazy Horse was horrid. Crazy Horse would have trouble landing a gig at Ma Deeters during deer season, that's how bad they were. And I'm certain that Young and his guitar were solely responsible for the Db limitations imposed on Pine Knob. I mean that he was friggin' loud. And not 'quality' loud either. It was 'Old Fender Amps Pushed Too Far With Many Open Lines Buzzing' kind of loud. It hurt.

I resented having to pay the price that I did to hear a second-rate bar band backing up an egomaniac who justified their shortcomings by calling it 'art' instead of 'music', and never went to another Young show.

BTW, for those who'd like a little more insight into Young's history, music and character, I'd recommend reading 'Shakey' by Jimmy McDonough. It's Youngs authorized biography, and much to his credit he let it out of the bag warts and all.

[Oblong]

:classic:

Glad to have you back friend.

[BFK]

Thanks, Oblong. Glad to be here. :classic:

[TonyJM]

Originally posted by TWolve
"I heard Neil Young sing about her. I heard ole Neil put her down. I hope Neil Young will remember, a southern man don't need him around anyhow"....that lyric is what ultimately Neil Young will be remembered by. That is the lyric from Lynard Skynard's, "Sweet Home Alabama" which is a song that is far more known then any song Neil Young ever did.

I read somewhere that Young covered Sweet Home Alabama a bunch of times. I don't listen to a lot of Young stuff, but I think "That Smell", by Skynyrd is one of my favorite tunes.


-Tony

[eastside billee]

After reading all these posts I have aa few comments.

Lynyrd Skynyrd is a tremendous band and really great to see live. It's AMERICAN rock and roll - not a lot of pompous artsy faratsy crap -- they created the entire genre of Southern Rock. They deserve to be in the R&R Hall of fame -- period. If you can't appreciate Skynyrd - you missed the boat.

Neil Young will not be remembered for Sweet Home Alabama. That's just retodded. Neil Young wrote some great songs - Mr. Soul, Broken Arrow, I am a Child, After the Goldrush is a tremendous album as is Everybody Knows this is Nowhere. Classics. Just the fact that Young has been making records and touring for 40 years proves he is a legend. Genius no - legend yes.
Young has also raised a handicapped son. He was 1/4 of CSNY - wrote "Ohio" - this man is a legend and a talent and as Biff so intelligently stated - he can't play guitar or sing for crap!
JUST LIKE THE GODFATHER OF AMERICAN FOLK MUSIC - Woody Guthrie. Bob Dylan the same thing.
His songs, his delivery, his style and his honesty make him an incredible talent.

People who like an artist because they feel they are supposed to, have the musical opinion of an ant and are personally THIN.

One more comment, Twolve - Sweet Home Alabama IS NOT more popular than any song Neil Young ever did - starating with "For What It's Worth", "Ohio", "Cinnamon Girl', "Old Man', and as an hippie can tell you "Needle and the damage Done".

I love Skynyrd, but I love Neil too.

[Oblong]

Neil Young and Skynyrd are pretty tight and the Sweet Home Alabama thing is kind of a joke between them.

Nevertheless.... if you were in a hall of 400 people and there was a dance floor, what would be more likely to get people out on the floor dancing and singing? Sweet Home Alabama or Rocking in the Free World?

Simple. The one that rocks. I saw a comedian do a Neil Young skit and that sealed it for me. One trick pony. Every song is the same.

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by Oblong
Neil Young and Skynyrd are pretty tight and the Sweet Home Alabama thing is kind of a joke between them.

Nevertheless.... if you were in a hall of 400 people and there was a dance floor, what would be more likely to get people out on the floor dancing and singing? Sweet Home Alabama or Rocking in the Free World?

Simple. The one that rocks. I saw a comedian do a Neil Young skit and that sealed it for me. One trick pony. Every song is the same.

I think that's an awful way to judge music. A Lil Jon song would get more people moving than "A Day In The Life." Who cares?

That said, I can admit Young's flaws. "Rockin In The Free World" is terrible.

[Billy Ringo]

Young?? The goat roper hat says it all.

[shabba4detroit]

Originally posted by eastside billee
After reading all these posts I have aa few comments.

Lynyrd Skynyrd is a tremendous band and really great to see live. It's AMERICAN rock and roll - not a lot of pompous artsy faratsy crap -- they created the entire genre of Southern Rock. They deserve to be in the R&R Hall of fame -- period. If you can't appreciate Skynyrd - you missed the boat.

Neil Young will not be remembered for Sweet Home Alabama. That's just retodded. Neil Young wrote some great songs - Mr. Soul, Broken Arrow, I am a Child, After the Goldrush is a tremendous album as is Everybody Knows this is Nowhere. Classics. Just the fact that Young has been making records and touring for 40 years proves he is a legend. Genius no - legend yes.
Young has also raised a handicapped son. He was 1/4 of CSNY - wrote "Ohio" - this man is a legend and a talent and as Biff so intelligently stated - he can't play guitar or sing for crap!
JUST LIKE THE GODFATHER OF AMERICAN FOLK MUSIC - Woody Guthrie. Bob Dylan the same thing.
His songs, his delivery, his style and his honesty make him an incredible talent.

People who like an artist because they feel they are supposed to, have the musical opinion of an ant and are personally THIN.

One more comment, Twolve - Sweet Home Alabama IS NOT more popular than any song Neil Young ever did - starating with "For What It's Worth", "Ohio", "Cinnamon Girl', "Old Man', and as an hippie can tell you "Needle and the damage Done".

I love Skynyrd, but I love Neil too.


Neil in his day was great -- but like most old rock and rollers -- if he can still play, he should stick to playing the hits. Lynyrd Skynyrd also great back in the day -- but like most dead rock and rollers -- they can stop touring anytime now.

Nonetheless it is my understanding that Skynyrd and Young were friendly and the lyrics was intended as a good natured jab.

Finally, Sweet Home Alabama rocks .... it is probably the best song of its decade and one of the greatest of all time. Neil can probably beat Skynyrd with his catalog, but he does not have a single song as good as this one.

[Oblong]

Originally posted by zachcadillac
I think that's an awful way to judge music. A Lil Jon song would get more people moving than "A Day In The Life." Who cares?

That said, I can admit Young's flaws. "Rockin In The Free World" is terrible.

What is the point of music? To entertain people. When I see a live performance I want something that will make me move and want to have fun. I'm not interested in sitting there as if I'm looking at a painting in a museum. I don't care about the politics or message or philosphy behind the lyrics. I care if my body feels like moving. That's the whole point.

If you want to think then read a book.

[Oblong]

And I definately think that some of Neil Young and CSN&Y has some songs like that so I don't want to make it sound like I'm dissing them. This is more of a general "What do you get out of music" thought than Young in particular.

[BFK]

I think that more than anything else, Young gave hope to a generation of aspring singers and guitarists who can't play worth a damn or carry a tune in a bucket.

He proved that that the American dream is alive and well, especially if you're a Canadian.

[Moonlight Graham]

Billie,

I am huge Neil Young and your post was perfect.

MG

[zimm]

i hate neil young's song "cinnamon girl." my first job was washing dishes in a bar/resturant. i usually worked friday and saturday nights and the house band, natchez trace, played the same set every week. about the time the kitchen shut down and i could hear the music in the bar well, they would play that dam song.

i could be happy, the rest of my life...if i never heard that song again!

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally posted by zimm
i could be happy, the rest of my life...if i never heard that song again!
Hey hey my my where do I begin? You sound like an old man. Have a heart of gold and relax. My old laughing lady got a kick out of your comments. She lives down by the river. I do not understand her humor, maybe its because I am a southern man from Alabama. She is from Ohio. She used to hang out with the welfare mothers before we met. I gave her the powderfinger and she rode my llama. We made a lotta love that cowgirl in the sand. She reminds me of Pocohantas.

zimm it comes a time where you just to let it sail away.

On a side note. My house is a pit. This man needs a maid big time. Maybe I'll go hire a hire a cinnamon girl?

[TonyJM]

Originally posted by shabba4detroit
Finally, Sweet Home Alabama rocks .... it is probably the best song of its decade and one of the greatest of all time. Neil can probably beat Skynyrd with his catalog, but he does not have a single song as good as this one.


Man...I dig Sweet Home Alabama, and I'm sure I sound like a huge dork here, but I don't think it cracks my top 5 favorite Skynyrd tunes.

That Smell
Tuesday's Gone
Gimme Three Steps
Simple Man
Freebird

Their greatest hits is probably my favorite cd I own.

[eastside billee]

After that last post by Moonlight - I think we can sit back and have an interesting chuckle.

:classic:

I think some of you got me wrong here -
I'm not a bigger fan of either!

I love Skynyrd -- I've seen them live 5 times!

The seering guitars, the slide, the entire show. When Johnny V. comes out on stage I could swear it's Ronnie - the band rocks and does all the mystique are there.

[zimm]

Originally posted by Moonlight Graham
Hey hey my my where do I begin? You sound like an old man. Have a heart of gold and relax. My old laughing lady got a kick out of your comments. She lives down by the river. I do not understand her humor, maybe its because I am a southern man from Alabama. She is from Ohio. She used to hang out with the welfare mothers before we met. I gave her the powderfinger and she rode my llama. We made a lotta love that cowgirl in the sand. She reminds me of Pocohantas.

zimm it comes a time where you just to let it sail away.

On a side note. My house is a pit. This man needs a maid big time. Maybe I'll go hire a hire a cinnamon girl?

nice!:classic:

[BFK]

Every time I'm driving and a Skynyrd tune comes on the radio, I'm compelled to whip into a gas station and top-off the tank.

[Biff Mayhem]

Originally posted by Moonlight Graham
Hey hey my my where do I begin? You sound like an old man. Have a heart of gold and relax. My old laughing lady got a kick out of your comments. She lives down by the river. I do not understand her humor, maybe its because I am a southern man from Alabama. She is from Ohio. She used to hang out with the welfare mothers before we met. I gave her the powderfinger and she rode my llama. We made a lotta love that cowgirl in the sand. She reminds me of Pocohantas.

zimm it comes a time where you just to let it sail away.


On a side note. My house is a pit. This man needs a maid big time. Maybe I'll go hire a hire a cinnamon girl?



Ugg. You should have photoshopped a picture of Young to add to the misery.

[KenK]

I wouldn't call Neil Young a genius, but I would call him gifted. He's written some great songs (and a lot of ordinary ones), and he found a way to perform them that is unique and expressive and (sometimes at least) appealing, without having a "good" singing voice or great guitar prowess. Like Dylan (who was obviously an influence) he manages to perform his material well, or tailor his material to suit his musical abilities, as the case may be, and create something that works (sometimes, at least).

I don't think I would enjoy music much if I thought of it solely as something to dance to. Dancing is fun, and music that makes me want to move is good, but to me that's only a very narrow and limited slice of what music really is. Like any form of art, music is an expression of emotion, and intended not solely to entertain, per se, but rather to evoke emotion in others. I certainly don't feel like dancing when I listen to Rhapsody In Blue or the immortal Ninth, but they definitely evoke an emotional response. Music is unique among the arts, to me, because of the different levels and ways that it can focus that kind of response: the rhythmic structure, the melodic and harmonic lines, lyrics, the dynamics . . . all can play a part in how the music affects me. Several of those parts can be very ordinary, but if one of them is especially good or great, the whole thing works. A good old-fashioned rocker with trite or meaningless lyrics can get you crankin', and make you move, and that's great, but there are so many more available layers and textures to what music can do that I would find it very strange to focus only on the beat and miss all the other parts. A piece with a very simple melodic line and only three chords, but with deeply meaningful or interesting lyrics may not be a toe-tapper, but it can raise goose bumps or a lump in the throat, and I can enjoy that at least as much as a foot-stompin' shake-your-booty rocker.

As for Neil's guitar playing, I think he's often underrated. I don't mean that I think he's any world-class guitar slinger (he surely is not), but what he does is not as simple as it may sound, and it (often, anyway) is very "right" for the song. Particularly in his acoustic playing he's carved out a niche for himself that is distinctive and specific to him; it's easy to emulate, but not all that easy to duplicate, and it suits his material very well. That's a talent too, in my opinion. I've also seen him live with CSN, trading some great electric licks with Stephen Stills (an extremely good guitar player) and holding his own. So while he's far from being in the upper tier of great guitar players, I wouldn't call him a slouch, either. Besides, I admire his bizarre ability to hit a wrong note and somehow strangle it and force it to be right, by sheer willpower.

[zachcadillac]

You're clearly much smarter than me, so I'm glad we came to the same conclusion.

[Joe Gahona]

Originally posted by KenK
I Like any form of art, music is an expression of emotion, and intended not solely to entertain, per se, but rather to evoke emotion in others.

Are you saying that the intent of music is both to express emotion (for the composer) and to evoke emotion in the listener?

[KenK]

I'm saying that that's the way I think of music (and art in general), yes. As an emotional expression of the artist's, with the intention (or maybe hope?) of evoking an emotional response in the listener.

[Joe Gahona]

Originally posted by KenK
I'm saying that that's the way I think of music (and art in general), yes. As an emotional expression of the artist's, with the intention (or maybe hope?) of evoking an emotional response in the listener.

Interesting, though I don't quite think of it that way. I do agree that composers generally seek to evoke some kind of feeling ("emotion" maybe). But I don't think every good piece of music was written as an expression of emotion. I think some composers are just good at slapping together pleasing-sounding tunes.

[eastside billee]

Very nicely said both KenK and JoeGahona.

As a songwriter myself, I applaud you both.

[BFK]

Originally posted by Joe Gahona
Interesting, though I don't quite think of it that way. I do agree that composers generally seek to evoke some kind of feeling ("emotion" maybe). But I don't think every good piece of music was written as an expression of emotion. I think some composers are just good at slapping together pleasing-sounding tunes.

Hall & Oates are a good example of your theory. Dismantle their songs and you have a lot of generic fluff. But taken as a whole, imo they're some of the finest pop tunes ever recorded.

[Joe Gahona]

Thanks, billee. As you know it's sometimes hard to put your finger on what's really going on in a musical experience -- there are definitely feelings I get from listening, but are they emotions? I don't know, sometimes the closest emotion it comes to is admiration.

After rereading my last reply, I didn't mean to imply that songwriters who have the ability to slap together emotion-evoking music without expressing emotion themselves are necessarily frauds or cheap (like, say, some jingle writers, or musicians who do generic short pieces for scenes in bad TV shows, etc.). Mozart said he wrote his best music while he was in a great mood -- even if the music was designed to elicit sadness from the listener.

[eastside billee]

Great point BFK, great example.

[Mattingly70]

Originally posted by Oblong
What is the point of music? To entertain people. When I see a live performance I want something that will make me move and want to have fun. I'm not interested in sitting there as if I'm looking at a painting in a museum. I don't care about the politics or message or philosphy behind the lyrics. I care if my body feels like moving. That's the whole point.

If you want to think then read a book.

It's not an either/or choice. I can get lost in a jam for an hour but I also enjoy a song with meaningful and thought-provoking lyrics.

[Oblong]

well according to zach one is horrible and one is not so address your point with him.

I'm not snooty enough to think my way is better. It's just my way.

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by Oblong
well according to zach one is horrible and one is not so address your point with him.

I'm not snooty enough to think my way is better. It's just my way.

Actually, I said it was a terrible way to choose one song as superior over another.