line-up

[chesterlimon]

First of all this new board looks just dandy:D , second of all I would like to start this thread by saying this is just my opinion and in no way shape or form are these the views of a baseball expert nor am I going to back up my opinion with stats. Now that thats out of the way.....I have a line-up I would like to see put to use.

batting/position

1. torres/center
2. young/third base
3. higgenson/leftfield
4. fick/first base
5. cruz/right field
6. meluskey(and palmer)/dh
7. rivera/catcher
8. halter/shortstop
9. macias/second

ok..let me have it. No just kidding, some of the reasons for the line-up...i don't know...something different i guess. i don't think young should be hitting clean up, i think cruz could really suprise people if he were given the every day job, speady lead off guy, halter needs to be burried at the bottom of the order, and macias could be like a second lead off. i know i said i wanted halter out of the line-up but didnt know who else would play short. as far as anyone not in the starting nine(easely)i dont really care. thats about it, its 4:30 in the morning and i have to eat dinner so i can go to bed and get up at 2:00 so I can go work another 12 hours:o

[JuanGone]

Looks ok to me, except Young can't play third. He can try, but he just doesn't move. I guess it doesn't matter though.

[ToledoTigerFan]

That's what I've been advocating, too. That the Tigers might(will?) have to spend some cash to re-establish some credibility amongst(or is it among? Where's Doc Cobweb? He'd know) the free agents and the market in general. If they have to deficit-spend in the short term, the immediate extra wins will more than pay off for doing it in the long run. I'm not crazy about the mega-millions that run the game, but it's what it takes to win.

[qsilvr2531]

Yeah cause that plan has worked for the Orioles and Devil Rays.... Wait a minute, has that plan ever worked for anyone?

[holygoat]

Marlins?

[qsilvr2531]

You can not win through the free agent market. The free agent market (as it is set up now) drives the prices of those players who are FA's up. You have to overspend for quality. It will work if you already have a strong base, but it is very very difficult to win just through FA.

The Marlins got many of those players through trades (Sheffield being the key one). And many were developed by the Marlins as well (Renteria, Nen, Hernandez). And then they disbanded quickly (though they didn't really have to do that since the team was still making money, but Huizenga (sp?) was greedy).

Ideally the Tigers will rebuild for about 3 more years, steadily improving and filling in at weak spots when the right player is available.

The system hasn't worked out great for the last ten years because it has been one of the worst run systems in baseball. It has improved, especially recently, and I really like last years draft. The focus on college guys in early rounds is a positive step.

[Ranger]

Originally posted by qsilvr2531
You can not win through the free agent market. The free agent market (as it is set up now) drives the prices of those players who are FA's up. You have to overspend for quality. It will work if you already have a strong base, but it is very very difficult to win just through FA.

So if the Yanks win this season, what would you call that? Giambi, Vander Wal, White, Ventura, Coomer, Clemens, Hitchcock, Mussina, Wells. (Did Clemens come in a trade or FA?) (I also forgot Ventura came in a trade too)

But not every team has a bottomless pocket like Steinbrenner so I guess you're right. You must admit it is a key to fielding a winning team. This offseason the Tigers can sign Rolen (and overpay him but whoever signs him will anyways) and that fills up a big hole in the defense and in the batting order. We should have tried to have traded for Cirillo this offseason but can't anymore.

Up the middle is a different story - Halter and Easley are not part of the solution. Infante might be able to replace Halter (God I hope so) and isn't Ray Durham a FA this offseason? But if Infante doesn't pan out (or any of our other prospects at SS) and if Montreal is stinking up the NL East by July, I would bet that with MLB running the Expos now, acquiring Orlando Cabrera wouldn't be impossible. Torres might pan out in CF and I'm not going to judge him on such a small sample.

I'm pleased with the job Meluskey is doing behind the plate now and very pleased with his plate presence. Rivera is hurting because Meluskey is getting so much time so I want to send him to Toledo and Inge to Erie and Walbeck up as a backup.

But two FA signings and a trade could very well be solution to our problems with positions players. Pitching is another problem though. I have no clue who will be FA this offseason but...

Redman looks promising - he just had one bad inning last night (which I was hard on him about). Weaver is a lock. Lets hope Cornejo gets things together. Sparks can pitch for a few more years. Moehler should be returning soon and hopefully pick up where he left off. Lima is a bum though - he needs to go.

We also have Baugh, Bernero, Kalita, and Loux who can be ready to pitch in the ML by next season. Also didn't Julio Santana start for the Twins one year? He seems to be doing a good job for the Mud Hens this season and could possibly get things together.

[BlessYouBoys]

Speaking of pitching help, dont forget about Greisinger, I expect to see him back in Detroit very soon.

[Moonlight Graham]

Originally posted by justin


So if the Yanks win this season, what would you call that?
Stealing a line from quick silver "It will work if you already have a strong base" is true for the Yankees. I believe the Yankees had a strong base of core talent and spent a ton of $$$ to fill in the gaps.
I see the same thing with the Red Wings. They are spending a ton of $$$ but the base talent was already there.

[qsilvr2531]

I have no problem with signing Rolen to a FA contract, because I believe in overpaying for superstars. I don't believe in overpaying for mediocrity (ie Dmitri Young). It's not that I think that mediocre players are bad (they're not), I just think that they aren't that hard to find through less expensive means. But the Scott Rolens of the world are tough to find, because there aren't many of them.

Giambi, Vander Wal, White, Ventura, Coomer, Clemens, Hitchcock, Mussina, Wells

I call that Giambi, Mussina and a whole bunch fo average.

Ventura came in a trade, as did Clemens. White won't play 120 games this year (because ne never does) and Vanderwall is a solid starter, but no better than Juan Rivera would be or even MArcus Thames. Coomer isn't even average.

Look at the Yankees up the middle. Alfonso Soriano is the worst player they have up the middle. Williams, Jeter, Posada. All of them are Yankees products. They used their farm system to get Clemens and Ventura. They have another farm product at DH, and Johnson would be a starting 1B for most teams right now. Yes they spent lots of money to get Mussina and Giambi, but given that core of talent they could win without them (and they did I'll remind you).

Signing FA's to fill holes is something you do at the end of the development cycle, not the beginning.

[Ranger]

In another thread you said something about trading some of the guys listed wouldn't bring Troy Glaus to Detroit...

You're right about Rolen, I'd love to have him in the English D and who needs to trade a crap load of players for Troy Glaus when you can sign Scott Rolen? Young is a mediocre player and I don't think he's worth as much as we signed him for but we can't do anything about that now.

Actually if you look at it now... Young, Higgy, Fick, and a Rolen would solidfy the corner positions and this team could be competitive.

Up the middle is weak in that no one knows when Infante, Santiago, Woods will be ready or live up to expectations. Meluskey and Rivera seem like they're long term solutions to being behind the plate. Also Santiago and Woods are probably at least 2 years away from the Majors so assuming Infante is the next Jimmy Rollins (which I'm hoping) we still have a hole at 2nd. Damian Jackson????

Andres Torres is another wild card. Lets see how getting feet wet makes him respond. Arizona doesn't seem to be in love with David Dellucci so maybe acquiring him could be easy and he can do league average I'm thinking.

[Oblong]

If your Scott Rolen would you come here? They'd have to outbid by 20%.

[Ranger]

Originally posted by Oblong
If your Scott Rolen would you come here? They'd have to outbid by 20%.

We move Lima, Easley, and Palmer's salaries... then we can outbid any other team by 20% and get as much production from that one player than those 3 combined.

[qsilvr2531]

I'm not sure what you mean by:

In another thread you said something about trading some of the guys listed wouldn't bring Troy Glaus to Detroit...

Are you saying that we have someone on our team (or a combination of someones on our team) that would bring Glaus to us in a trade? Glaus is a 40 HR, 100 walk type hitter, who also happens to play 3B. I can't see anything we have bringing him here.

My problem with the Young, Higgy, Fick, Rolen corner is that Fick and Young are both only average, while Higgy and Rolen are both good for their positions. Unless we strengthen ourselves at CF, 2B, DH and SS, our offense still isn't gonna be any better than average.

I do think in four years we are gonna be very strong up the middle if DD is patient. We have to much talent in Santiago, Woods and Infante not to end up with two solid guys, and our catching situation is still very good. CF is a bit more of a question mark, in that Torres is gonna hav to get on base 38% of the time if he's gonna be productive.

[Oblong]

let me rephrase that... we'd have to outbid by 20% just to even get him to listen to our offer and think about it for 3 minutes.