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WMUDan
07-29-2004, 04:29 PM
What a joke the city leadership is...
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Cops: Mayor's top aide ranted way out of ticket

July 29, 2004

BY JIM SCHAEFER AND M.L. ELRICK
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS


Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's top aide got out of a speeding ticket last month after berating officers and calling the police chief from her city-owned car, the officers said.

"I've had dope men treat me better," Detroit Police Officer Zack Weishuhn said of Christine Beatty, the mayor's chief of staff. Weishuhn told the Free Press his supervisor advised him not to ticket Beatty.

The June 21 episode represents another controversial run-in between Beatty and the department she oversees as Kilpatrick's closest adviser. Last year, she convinced the mayor to fire the head of police internal affairs, triggering a lawsuit that could cost taxpayers millions and that has raised persistent questions about the conduct of Beatty, the mayor and other staff members.

Beatty declined comment.

Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings said Wednesday she did not intervene on Beatty's behalf.

Beatty, who has a history of speeding, was driving about 15 m.p.h. over the limit on a rainy night when she zipped past a marked police car traveling on Livernois, according to interviews and a police report.

Weishuhn said he and Officer P.J. Tomsic interrupted their response to a routine call at 8:50 p.m. to stop Beatty, whose driving prompted another motorist to express concern to the officers.

When Weishuhn approached the window of Beatty's city-issued Ford Crown Victoria, he said she asked him: "Do you know who the (expletive) I am?"

Weishuhn, who had just returned from the military, told the Free Press he did not recognize her. He said Beatty, a civilian, flashed a police-like badge but wouldn't show it a second time. She did turn over her license.

"She was just screaming at me, cussing me out," he said. "As I went back to my car, I heard the chief come on the radio."

Bully-Cummings said she thinks the officers recognized Beatty and may have harassed her, which the officers denied. Bully-Cummings said Beatty called her that night not for help but to let the chief know what was happening. She said Beatty did not file a complaint.

The chief said Beatty did not receive special treatment.

Weishuhn said he didn't ticket Beatty on the recommendation of Sgt. Robert Lalone, whom he called to the scene.

"It would have been more of a headache than anything else," Lalone told the Free Press. "I'm positive there would have been repercussions. . . . They're both good guys," he said of the officers.

Lalone said that after he arrived he went to Beatty's car to apologize. He said she was polite and handed him her phone so the chief could talk to him.

"I just told her what was going on," Lalone said of the chief.

After the traffic stop, Weishuhn and Tomsic were summoned to their precinct house, the 12th (Palmer Park) Precinct, where they met with the inspector in charge of police operations.

Lalone said he heard the inspector tell the officers to be more discreet. He said he stands by his decision to let Beatty go.

"I'd show the same courtesy to any city worker," Lalone said. "Because we're all underpaid and overworked."

Secretary of State records show Beatty received four speeding tickets from 1998 to 2001, including two on Sept 1, 2001. The state sent her a letter warning her about unsafe driving.

Her license was suspended four times for nonpayment of tickets, which she eventually cleared up. Since 2001, her record shows no tickets.

Beatty is a key figure in a lawsuit filed last year by former Deputy Chief Gary Brown, who headed internal affairs. Brown claims, among other things, that he was fired over investigations that might have exposed an alleged romantic relationship between Kilpatrick and Beatty. Beatty has denied the charges.

In a deposition, Kilpatrick's lawyer instructed him not to answer questions about any relationship with Beatty.




Contact M.L. ELRICK at 313-223-3327 or elrick@freepress.com. Contact JIM SCHAEFER at 313-223-4542 or schaefer@freepress.com.

Oblong
07-29-2004, 04:34 PM
Lalone said he heard the inspector tell the officers to be more discreet. He said he stands by his decision to let Beatty go.

"I'd show the same courtesy to any city worker," Lalone said. "Because we're all underpaid and overworked."



That's very nice to know.

Underpaid my ***!

That person should be fired on the spot. No wonder the city is one big pile of crap and always will be.

smr-nj
07-29-2004, 04:35 PM
That's ridiculous.

It sounds like (to this outsider) the inmates are running the asylum in the city of Detroit.

What a mess.

billms
07-29-2004, 04:37 PM
Wow. The mayor was dating this (http://www.glamazon.net/) person? I wouldn't ticket them either.

billms
07-29-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Oblong
That's very nice to know.

Underpaid my ***!

That person should be fired on the spot. No wonder the city is one big pile of crap and always will be.

Yeah! Now Livonia, *thats* the place to be! :classic:

WMUDan
07-29-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Oblong
That's very nice to know.

Underpaid my ***!

That person should be fired on the spot. No wonder the city is one big pile of crap and always will be.


http://www.detnews.com/pix/2003/04/14/c06mugs.jpg

billms
07-29-2004, 04:40 PM
"pay me what you want, as long as I get $1 more than *louis*!"

shabba4detroit
07-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Oblong
That's very nice to know.

Underpaid my ***!

That person should be fired on the spot. No wonder the city is one big pile of crap and always will be.


I'm sure the seargeant was attempting to be tactful. He's the one who gets caught in the squeeze, trying to protect his men for doing their job, while answering to the higher-ups.


"It would have been more of a headache than anything else," Lalone told the Free Press. "I'm positive there would have been repercussions. . . . They're both good guys," he said of the officers.


I'd be curious as to what the ellipses left off.

Oblong
07-29-2004, 04:57 PM
message: Don't ticket the city workers, ticket those who aren't so lucky to have a cake job and those evil suburbanites.

Another reason not to go to Detroit unless you absolutely have to.

WMUDan
07-30-2004, 02:07 AM
Of course it was..... Kwame may be the worst political figure I've ever seen.
------------------
Mayor: Traffic stop a setup

Detroit cops accused of pulling over top aide to harass her
July 30, 2004

BY JIM SCHAEFER AND M.L. ELRICK
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick lashed out Thursday at Detroit police officers who pulled over his chief of staff last month, saying, "It sounds like a setup to me."


In an interview on WJR-AM (760), Kilpatrick did not elaborate or offer proof about the conduct of two officers who stopped Christine Beatty for speeding June 21 on Livernois Avenue on Detroit's west side.

"It's the biggest piece of crap," Kilpatrick said on the radio. "I was incredibly surprised that the Free Press would even write about it."

The newspaper reported Thursday that Officers Zack Weishuhn and P.J. Tomsic pulled Beatty over after she steamed past them in her city-owned car at 8:50 p.m.

Weishuhn said Beatty was going about 15 m.p.h. over the limit. She has had four speeding tickets since 1997.

When Weishuhn approached her window, he said, Beatty asked: "Do you know who the (expletive) I am?" Then she flashed a police-like badge and called Chief Ella Bully-Cummings.

A supervisor summoned by the officers told them not to write a ticket.

The mayor and Beatty were attending the Democratic National Convention in Boston on Thursday and have not returned requests for comment.

But Kilpatrick's radio accusation riled some police officers and echoed remarks Bully-Cummings made Wednesday that she believed the two officers recognized Beatty and stopped her to harass her. Beatty oversees the Police Department.

Bully-Cummings said she based her suspicions on a review of an in-car video, which she said shows the patrol car following Beatty longer than necessary and pulling alongside her car.

Bully-Cummings and other officials said that because of a technical glitch, there is no audio on the tape.

Both officers told the Free Press they did not recognize Beatty and were checking her license plate and speed. Their supervisor said he was surprised by the chief's and mayor's comments.

"I'm a little bit disappointed in what him and the chief have said. Being out there, I can guarantee anybody that what they said was the truth," Sgt. Robert Lalone said.

Lalone was called to the scene as Beatty phoned Bully-Cummings from her car. He arrived and talked to Beatty, who handed him the phone so he could talk to his chief. Lalone said she didn't tell him what to do, but he decided his officers didn't need the grief a ticket might bring.

Lalone said he also saw the tape, which he said appeared to show a routine traffic stop.

Officer Reggie Crawford, a critic of the department's leadership, called for the officers union to speak out.

"That statement that the officers were harassing Christine Beatty is something that I find reprehensible," Crawford told the Free Press. "The chief's statement is really a morale buster."

Detroit Police Officers Association President Marty Bandemer did not return calls.

There was no indication that Tomsic or Weishuhn, who is on leave and serving in the military, faced discipline.


Contact JIM SCHAEFER at 313-223-4542 or schaefer@freepress.com. Contact M.L. ELRICK at 313-223-3327 or elrick@freepress.com

WMUDan
07-30-2004, 02:11 AM
Bravo Mr. Dickerson.
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BRIAN DICKERSON: Just who the (expletive) is this woman?

July 30, 2004

BY BRIAN DICKERSON
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

"Do you know who the (expletive) I am?"

That's how Christine Beatty, the woman who oversees the Detroit Police Department as Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's chief of staff, greeted two uniformed officers who pulled her over for speeding last month.

It was the fifth time Beatty has been cited for speeding since 1998 -- or it would have been, if the officers' superiors hadn't interceded to quash the latest ticket.

Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings -- whom Beatty called on her cell phone during the stop -- says she didn't participate in the decision to give Beatty a pass. But she says a no-audio videotape of the stop, which shows the two officers shadowing Beatty's car for several minutes before pulling her over, suggests the cops may have been harassing her.

Now, I've been pulled over for speeding once or twice, and in my experience, it's not unusual for officers making a stop to follow an offending vehicle awhile so they can run its plates. I think the message Bully-Cummings really wants to convey to her troops is a simpler one: Don't mess with the boss's boss.

Running scared, talking tough
But it's Beatty's question -- "Do you know who the (expletive) I am?" -- that concerns me. Have you noticed that people who ask that question are usually speaking from a position of weakness?

I remember the last time I asked it. I was outside my car at a gas station, preparing to fill the tank, when a guy in a pickup peeled in and started screaming at me.

He'd been behind me in traffic a few minutes earlier, and he'd taken exception to my driving. When he got down from the cab and stepped toward me, still screaming, I knew I was in trouble.

The only thing I had going for me that day was my unusually formal attire. In my navy suit, crimson tie and black lace-ups, I might have been an FBI agent. As my would-be assailant moved closer, I buttoned my jacket and asked, in the calmest voice I could muster: "Do you have any idea who you're talking to?"

He didn't have any idea, I'm pretty sure. But my question gave him pause. He stopped in his tracks, unleashed a final volley of expletives, and squealed away in his pickup without learning that the person he'd been talking to was none other than Brian Dickerson -- a very scared newspaperman about to pee his pants.

Identity crisis solved
I think Beatty may have been in a similar frame of mind the night she was caught speeding. She may have thought she sounded tough, but people confident of their authority don't say such ridiculous things.

Then again, Beatty may have been genuinely confused about her own identity. If so, I can help -- because I know exactly who she is.

She's an executive who oversees a department of 2,800 police officers -- and she's just let them know that she's too important to bother with their silly laws.

She's a woman in the public eye -- a teacher, whether she likes it or not -- and she's just taught 220,000 Detroit schoolchildren that only little people respect the authority of a lowly patrolman.

She's a model, in short, for every punk who thinks a title or a badge or a gun in your pocket places you above the rules.

So the next time your mayor is talking about the city's culture of lawlessness, Ms. Beatty, take a look in the mirror.

Because you know who that woman staring back is?

She's the (expletive) problem.

Contact BRIAN DICKERSON at 248-351-3697 or dicker@freepress.com.

billms
07-30-2004, 02:13 AM
Now I'm getting a bit sensitive. I thought that picture I dug up on christine was worth some props - didn't *anybody* like it?

Then there was that whoopi-being-unemployed line I threw to the wingnuts on the williams sanders thread that got ignored. This is good stuff guys!

3M
07-30-2004, 05:46 AM
Screw it when I come home next month the City of Detroit will not see 1 dime of my money.
That line about uder paid. Hey jack if we all where paid what we wanted or thought we where worth the cost of living would just go up with it so stick it up you but and do you job. I hate when people say that.
Do you know who the "beep" I am? What an unperfessional pile of dog crap. I had a customer tell me that if he was a officer that I would kidd his feet. I look that guy in the face and told him next time don't lock yourself out of your bathroom.

WMUDan
07-30-2004, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by billms
Now I'm getting a bit sensitive. I thought that picture I dug up on christine was worth some props - didn't *anybody* like it?

Then there was that whoopi-being-unemployed line I threw to the wingnuts on the williams sanders thread that got ignored. This is good stuff guys!

Sophomoric material but got a chuckle from me, keep trying. :classic:

shabba4detroit
07-30-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by 3M
Screw it when I come home next month the City of Detroit will not see 1 dime of my money.
That line about uder paid. Hey jack if we all where paid what we wanted or thought we where worth the cost of living would just go up with it so stick it up you but and do you job. I hate when people say that.
Do you know who the "beep" I am? What an unperfessional pile of dog crap. I had a customer tell me that if he was a officer that I would kidd his feet. I look that guy in the face and told him next time don't lock yourself out of your bathroom.


I believe that you are misconstruing the underpaid line. This is a police seargent trying to protect his patrolmen from repercussions. There was no ticket written, and look at the repercussions. The seargent did what the chief didn't have the ovaries to do. He protected his men while on the job. Ella the Bully sold them out to make points with her boss. (Expletive) her, and (expletive) Kwame's girlfriend who doesn't believe the law applies to her -- calling the chief of police to pull rank when she's speeding, and behaving absolutely unprofessionally for a woman in her position. She is as big as an embarrassment to Detroit as a mayor who goes to a nationally televised sporting event dressed like a juvenile delinquent. Absolutely classless.

DetroitFolly
07-30-2004, 08:01 AM
I would love to comment on this story. However, I deal with these people every week.

Therefore, I will refrain. Know this...this isn't out of the ordinary for this woman.

WMUDan
07-30-2004, 08:29 AM
In the spirt of beating a dead horse more coruption by hizzoner and hizzbitches:

http://www.geocities.com/firejerryo/AuditorReport.html

Embezzlement in Mayor's Office reported by former Deputy Auditor

In December of 2003 it was reported by media that mayoral appointee Misty Evans was allegedly suspected of stealing money from an account that she had access to as office manager with the Kilpatrick Administration. Detroit Uncovered has obtained documents that reveal an investigation into theft in the mayor's office has been impeded even halted on one occasion by Auditor General Joseph Harris and Finance Director Sean Werdlow. Published reports placed the sum at $10,000. The documents we have obtained say that $82,000 was stolen from the mayor's office imprest cash account. Also sources have said that another $111,000 in checks were written on the same city account. On May 12, 2004 former Deputy Auditor General, C.P.A Greg Frazier sent a letter to City-Council requesting a public hearing regarding possible improprieties and mismanagement within the (OAG) Office of the Auditor General. Frazier specifically addressed mismanagement on the part of Auditor General Joseph Harris. Frazier was susbsequently terminated by the Auditor General for blowing the whistle on bad management practices.. In the termination of frazier's employment on May 5, 2004 Harris cited " bad performance" as the reason. In a letter we received Frazier has requested a public hearing by city-council and an independent auditor to investigate the mayor's imprest cash account.
In response to a letter sent by community activist Reginald Crawford requesting a Grand Jury investigation U.S. Attorney General Jeffrey Collins said he would let the Wayne County Prosecutor handle the matter but he would monitor the situation. Mismanagement of city funds appears to be a common practice in the Kilpatrick administration if you recall there were published reports of misuse of a credit card which was used by Mayor Kilpatrick, Christine Beatty and others to charge $160,000 to the city . Sadly, like the imprest cash account no one has been charged or convicted.

-------------------------------------
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/embez12_20040612.htm

Kilpatrick aides face charges

Audit finds problem; 3 arraigned, 1 fired
June 12, 2004

BY JIM SCHAEFER AND M.L. ELRICK
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's office manager schemed with two assistants to steal thousands from an office petty cash fund, police said.

An audit found nearly $80,000 was withdrawn improperly from the fund between January 2002 and Sept. 30, 2003.

The office manager, Misty Evans, 34, of Redford Township, has admitted taking up to $18,000, police said. Cheryl Richardson, 34, of Southfield, and Lisa Stokes, 34, of Detroit, admitted cashing checks for several thousand dollars each, police said.

Court records cite three checks -- for $1,895, $5,185 and $3,855 -- that police say were written to the women for training seminars they did not attend.

Evans went on maternity leave last fall. A substitute discovered discrepancies in the fund.

Office workers told police that withdrawals from the fund were supposed to be no more than $300. Of the $80,000 withdrawn from the account, only one transaction was for $300 or less, police said.

Authorities would not say how much the trio are accused of taking.

Evans and Stokes were hired shortly after Kilpatrick took office in January 2002. Evans was paid $65,500 annually. Stokes, $41,500.

Richardson's start date and salary were unavailable Friday. She and Stokes have quit their jobs. Kilpatrick fired Evans late last year.

Evans was solely responsible for the cash fund, which is supposed to be used for small purchases such as office supplies.

Authorities said they expected her to surrender soon to face the charges. She declined to comment.

Stokes and Richardson were arraigned Friday and released on personal bonds. They could not be reached, and their attorney did not return a call.

All three women are charged with embezzlement and false pretenses. Evans faces an additional count of forgery.

All the charges are felonies; the most serious carries a penalty of up to 10 years in prison upon conviction.

Mayoral spokesman Dave Manney said each of the women underwent background checks before they were hired.

Contact JIM SCHAEFER at 313-223-4542 or schaefer@freepress.com. Contact M.L. ELRICK at 313-223-3327 or elrick@freepress.com.

Oblong
07-30-2004, 09:12 AM
I feel this is why the city is so adamant about giving up any kind of control or oversight away to the state because everybody's got their own little thing going and they don't want it discovered.

djhutch
07-30-2004, 09:25 AM
Man, that city is messed up. I hoped that Kwame would be different, but it's all politics. He's doing to Detroit what Woodrow Stanley did to Flint.

BEWARE: The state may be coming in to take over the finances next.

OldTimey
07-30-2004, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
I would love to comment on this story. However, I deal with these people every week.

Therefore, I will refrain. Know this...this isn't out of the ordinary for this woman.

Translation: I am a way awesome radio guy.

If you didn't want to comment then why did you even post in this thread? The only reason I can see is to make yourself look important. The problem I have is that what you look like is a ludicrous, self-serving, blabbering windbag.

lesgoblu02
07-30-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by OldTimey
Translation: I am a way awesome radio guy.

If you didn't want to comment then why did you even post in this thread? The only reason I can see is to make yourself look important. The problem I have is that what you look like is a ludicrous, self-serving, blabbering windbag.

Ya know OT, you sure can be a pretentious prick.

billms
07-30-2004, 05:56 PM
But, you gotta respect a man good at their craft!

3M
07-30-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by shabba4detroit
I believe that you are misconstruing the underpaid line. This is a police seargent trying to protect his patrolmen from repercussions. There was no ticket written, and look at the repercussions. The seargent did what the chief didn't have the ovaries to do. He protected his men while on the job. Ella the Bully sold them out to make points with her boss. (Expletive) her, and (expletive) Kwame's girlfriend who doesn't believe the law applies to her -- calling the chief of police to pull rank when she's speeding, and behaving absolutely unprofessionally for a woman in her position. She is as big as an embarrassment to Detroit as a mayor who goes to a nationally televised sporting event dressed like a juvenile delinquent. Absolutely classless.

after rereading it again I'm wrong you got me. What a b!tch she is.

OldTimey
07-31-2004, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by lesgoblu02
Ya know OT, you sure can be a pretentious prick.

Wrong. Folley's pretentious. I'm arrogant.

DetroitFolly
07-31-2004, 11:44 AM
But he was right about the prick part.

shabba4detroit
07-31-2004, 12:18 PM
There's a lot of love in this thread right now. I'm feeling a bit verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Here's a topic. Sally Struthers: actress or hopeless.

Motor City Sonics
07-31-2004, 12:18 PM
What do you guys expect anyway? These folks have absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Same thing happens in big cities all over the country. Daly Sr in Chicago, Coleman Young, Frank Rizzo in Philly, Maynard Jackson in Atlanta. These guys and their people are untouchable. Kwame will be mayor as long as he wants to be.

It's sad because Archer had respect for the job and respect for the city and he found himself becoming bitter and making decisions out of spite and decided he didn't like that person and left. I don't think Kwame is going to have such a crisis of conscience, and his staff only follows his lead.


Get used to it, Detroit.

shabba4detroit
07-31-2004, 12:21 PM
Two things. One, I think you are right, MCS.

Two, the difference is that Chicago is a corrupt city that works. Atlanta is a corrupt city that works. Philly is a corrupt city that works. Detroit is a cluster**** of corruption. And, unfortunately, there's a lot to be said for getting the trains to run on time.

shabba4detroit
07-31-2004, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by shabba4detroit
Two things. One, I think you are right, MCS.

Two, the difference is that Chicago is a corrupt city that works. Atlanta is a corrupt city that works. Philly is a corrupt city that works. Detroit is a cluster**** of corruption. And, unfortunately, there's a lot to be said for getting the trains to run on time.


Most corrupt municipal operations try their best to run like a clock, so that no one notices or no one cares. Things get built, services get performed, the residents are pleased. People who don't live in the area see these places as great places to live and visit.

Detroit, on the other hand, gets regularly caught ham-fisted in the cookie jar. Take the casinos, for instance. There's real money in getting these casinos built. Construction kickbacks, bribery and graft, -- that's where the real money is. Not to mention the legitimate addition to the tax base and job demand that the permanent casinos will bring, which will bring other big investors to the city (not Ilich or Barden) to get fleeced. But no, its better to hijack the deal from the get go, and have all these little power plays, and keep the casinos from being built so no legitimate benefits are received, and send a message to any other investors to go somewhere else, because Detroit government is too bass-ackward to deal with.

I would have less problem with a corrupt local government if they weren't so damned stupid about it.

Rooster
07-31-2004, 12:55 PM
"pay me what you want, as long as I get $1 more than *louis*!"

That is funny, and says alot about the Colman A. Young style of childish games that continue in Detroit long after his death.

Kwaw-mee can't get a better lookin' hoe that that up on the desk? What a Clinton.

Thanks for the laughs, I sure do need them these days.

OldTimey
07-31-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
But he was right about the prick part.

And I was right about the part where you were showing off.

Motor City Sonics
07-31-2004, 01:55 PM
Well, one of the problems is racism.

The reason corruption works in Philly and Chicago (and to a lesser degree in Atlanta) is that the makeup of the city is racially diverse and because of that, they have to make sure that the system gives something to every group so you have "just enough" support within each little group to give you decisive victories overall in elections.

In Detroit, it's almost all black, and black politicans use racism to deflect any serious criticism they may deserve.

When we see Coleman Young berate and curse out a white reporter on national TV most of us see it as an embarrassment, but Coleman Young was getting himself re-elected by doing that because the majority of the voters in almost all black Detroit can't see beyond race and the whole "look at Coleman telling off the man" mentality. That little tirade on 20/20 was a brilliant political move, by a master politician.

In the middle of Kwame's "strippergate" he even said himself that the media is just out to make a young black man look like a thug.

The mayors and other city leaders in Detroit don't have to give shyt to the almost all black citizens because they'll use race as a sheild, even when they are running against other black candidates. Coleman Young did a brilliant job of labeling his black opponents as "Uncle Tom". I seem to recall him saying about one apponent "scrub all you want, it don't come off, brother". I'm sure Kwame will do this too when given the opportunity and it will work. Kwame's opponent in the next election is going to be Sharon McPhail, so don't look for any changes.

Well, he is the "hip hop"mayor and what is the hip hop culture about? Greed, violence, and denigration of women. And that is exactly what we're seeing with this administration. Look at the amount of violence this year alone.

I don't see myself as a racist, but I'm sure others will look at my post and disagree. I thought Dennis Archer was a terrific mayor and did about all you could do with this broken city. He was optimistic and rational.

I don't know what a traffic ticket has to do with any of all of this, but it's just a mentality. I'm sure this young woman could have had the ticket taken care of the next business day and it would have been quietly dealt with, but she chose to wield the power she's been given and remind everyone "who the f*ck she is".

And it worked.



Good luck with that Super Bowl Detroit, I'm sure you'll leave everyone with a great impression. I just hope the Mayor doesn't dress like a pimp.

rhino
07-31-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by shabba4detroit
There's a lot of love in this thread right now. I'm feeling a bit verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. Here's a topic. Sally Struthers: actress or hopeless.

You had me reaching for the dictionary again, with "verklempt",
but it's not in there. Either I have to buy a better dictionary or you have to stop buying the "Word -a-day" vocabulary builder calenders.:classic:

lesgoblu02
07-31-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by rhino
You had me reaching for the dictionary again, with "verklempt",
but it's not in there. Either I have to buy a better dictionary or you have to stop buying the "Word -a-day" vocabulary builder calenders.:classic:

You need the Barbara Richmond Coffe Talk unabridged yiddish version.:cheeky:

shabba4detroit
07-31-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by lesgoblu02
You need the Barbara Richmond Coffe Talk unabridged yiddish version.:cheeky:


It's Linda Richman, but otherwise you've got it. It's a Mike Meyers SNL reference, Rhino.

WMUDan
07-31-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Motor City Sonics
what is the hip hop culture about? Greed, violence, and denigration of women.

Theres a huge difference between the hip-hop culture and being a thug.

shabba4detroit
07-31-2004, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by WMUDan
Theres a huge difference between the hip-hop culture and being a thug.


Elaborate, please.

Oblong
07-31-2004, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by WMUDan
Theres a huge difference between the hip-hop culture and being a thug.

maybe in actually "being" a thug but I don't see a big difference, if at all, of giving the appearance of being a thug which I think is the point of a lot of hip hop culture. Given what's gone on so far in the term of our youthful mayor I don't think he does either.

WMUDan
07-31-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by shabba4detroit
Elaborate, please.

The elements of hip-hop are Graffiti/Art, DJ/Turntablism, Breakdancing, MCing and Beatboxing.

Now just because many "gansta rappers" are into 'Greed, violence, and denigration of women' it is definently not a characterization of the community as a whole. Good MCs talk about their view and opinon of the world around them, 'greed, violence and denigration of women' are common occurances around the world and some MCs choose to embrace them as their themes but to generalize those as the values of the whole community is simply just wrong.

MCs who are not into MCS' generalization include:
- Common http://www.com-mon.com/
- Talib kweli http://www.talibkweli.com/
- Andre from Outcast http://www.outkast.com/#
- Mos Def http://www.mosdefinitely.com/
- The Roots http://www.theroots.com/
the list goes on and on....

Hip-Hop timeline: http://www.b-boys.com/hiphoptimeline.html

WMUDan
07-31-2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Oblong
maybe in actually "being" a thug but I don't see a big difference, if at all, of giving the appearance of being a thug which I think is the point of a lot of hip hop culture. Given what's gone on so far in the term of our youthful mayor I don't think he does either.

What do thugs look like?

holygoat
07-31-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by WMUDan
The elements of hip-hop are Graffiti/Art, DJ/Turntablism, Breakdancing, MCing and Beatboxing.

Now just because many "gansta rappers" are into 'Greed, violence, and denigration of women' it is definently not a characterization of the community as a whole. Good MCs talk about their view and opinon of the world around them, 'greed, violence and denigration of women' are common occurances around the world and some MCs choose to embrace them as their themes but to generalize those as the values of the whole community is simply just wrong.

MCs who are not into MCS' generalization include:
- Common http://www.com-mon.com/
- Talib kweli http://www.talibkweli.com/
- Andre from Outcast http://www.outkast.com/#
- Mos Def http://www.mosdefinitely.com/
- The Roots http://www.theroots.com/
the list goes on and on....

Hip-Hop timeline: http://www.b-boys.com/hiphoptimeline.html

You've listed the exceptions to the rule -- that list may go on, but not much further. "Gangsta" has pretty much claimed hip hop for its own these days, and the vast majority of hip hop consumers don't have a clue -- nor could they give a rat's *** about -- the history of hip hop. Today's hip hop culture is predominantly "gangsta".

WMUDan
07-31-2004, 05:58 PM
'Frost', says it better than I can...
------------------------------

Bitches, Hoes, Money, and Clothes

I think there are more questions than answers when it comes to this issue. There have always been songs about these things in Hip Hop, but this was not the majority of the content out there. We all know that big business has no conscience and violence and sex sell, they sell a lot. But with all the black owned independent labels and labels run by artists and producers, it becomes harder and harder to blame "the man" for what's going on. What may have been started by mostly white executives at major record labels looking for the big pay day, is now being continued by black artists and label owners who have a choice. The consuming public is also to blame on this one, because we want it, we demand it. We snatch this stuff up faster than your uncle can fix a plate at grandma's house for Sunday dinner. Hip Hop went from groups like Run DMC, who at first could not get a radio station to play their music, to stations that will play anything with a beat that talks about girls bending over and shaking their *** or rollin' and firin' up a blunt.

When I was comin' up, Hip Hop was about life. Telling the everyday stories of life as experienced by the people who were creating it. If that was the case now then every Joe with a record deal is a multi-millionaire, a drug kingpin, and a pimp, not to mention a player, a hustler, and a gangsta. Let's come back to reality, not every rapper has been a drug dealer, most are just above broke, and never had a girl working for them in their lives. There are some that have done these things and more. There are multi-millionaire rappers, ex-drug dealer rappers, (real)ex-gansta rappers, but these are not every rapper in the industry. Maybe that's why we still miss Tupac so much, years after his death. He was telling stories of the streets that everyone could relate to. Painting pictures of the life he led and the things he saw, real ****. Not this made up, I was a < fill in stereotypical ghetto occupation or activity here> back in the day but now I'm doin' this music thang, **** that is being fed to us by a lot of the rap industry. There are still some great artists out there, Common, Mos Def, The Roots, and Talib Kweli just to name a few. There are also a lot of tight *** songs out there by other artists that I think for the most part keep it real, Jay-Z, Redman, Method Man, Outkast, Nas, Mobb Deep, as well as others. But what happened to the social consciousness of Hip Hop? The music that was trying to uplift people with a lot of social and economic problems, not exploit those problems to sell records. They say sometimes you have to take two steps back to go three steps forward, I sure hope this is the case.

Your Hip Hop observer and enthusiast,
Frost
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Xt-I6Sd6qQUJ:www.slicksno.com/main/thalookout/hiphop_comment.htm+hip+hop+not+gansta&hl=en

DetroitFolly
08-01-2004, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by OldTimey
And I was right about the part where you were showing off.


Perhaps, subconciously, you are right.

You however, went out of your way to embarass me. Why?

OldTimey
08-01-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
Perhaps, subconciously, you are right.

You however, went out of your way to embarass me. Why?

No I didn't. You did that yourself by felling the need to show off. I was jsut pointing it out. I would expect anyone to do the same to me if I was showing off. I don't only do it to you. I do it to everyone who plays the "I told you so" card in the Tigers forum as well.

DetroitFolly
08-02-2004, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by OldTimey
No I didn't. You did that yourself by felling the need to show off. I was jsut pointing it out. I would expect anyone to do the same to me if I was showing off. I don't only do it to you. I do it to everyone who plays the "I told you so" card in the Tigers forum as well.

So...the bitter, nasty tone you took was simply "pointing it out?"

Fine...you want to put me in my place, do it. Just don't be such a huge jackass about it.

OldTimey
08-02-2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
So...the bitter, nasty tone you took was simply "pointing it out?"

Fine...you want to put me in my place, do it. Just don't be such a huge jackass about it.

I would say that the chances of me changing the way I act because of this point are .5% with a .5% margin of error.

By glossing yourself you were as much of a jerk as me. You just did it in a different way. Stop acting humble and folksy in an attempt to cover up the fact that you can be a jerk too. I admit I can be a jerk. Sometimes I even feel bad about it. But at least I admit it.

DetroitFolly
08-02-2004, 09:56 AM
I think I'm quite open about being an arrogant jerk on occasion. I have mentioned this quite often.

By "glossing myself" as you put it, I wasn't attacking anyone, least of all you. I wanted to chime in on the subject, even though its probably not wise for me to do so. I wasn't trying to flaunt anything to anyone.

You, however, decided to attack me. Plain and simple. You could have called me out politely, or even pm'ed me to announce your disgust at my perceived arrogance. Insead, you took yet another opportunity to swipe at me, something which you seem to take an almost perverse pleasure in doing.

I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with me, OT, but it doesn't seem healthy.

Billy Ringo
08-02-2004, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by smr-nj
That's ridiculous.

It sounds like (to this outsider) the inmates are running the asylum in the city of Detroit.

What a mess.

A very astute outsider. It has been this way for a long, long time. The rest of the state used to laugh at Detroit, but no more laughter. Just work, work, work to supply the money that Detroit slathers on its "officials" and wastes on fruitless projects. Detroit is a disease that Michigan keeps, like a kid keeps a pet rat.

OldTimey
08-02-2004, 11:07 AM
I wanted to chime in on the subject, even though its probably not wise for me to do so. I wasn't trying to flaunt anything to anyone.

IF you couldn't chime in then don't chime in. But you felt the need to announce how you were in the "inner circle" so you couldn't say anything. I'm so impressed.


I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with me, OT, but it doesn't seem healthy.

Wrong. You just happen to say a lot of stuff that deserves criticism. So do I. The difference between the two of us is that i can take it.

DetroitFolly
08-02-2004, 11:09 AM
Criticism is one thing. Personal attacks are another.


This, in my opinion, is beyond mere criticism.

"The problem I have is that what you look like is a ludicrous, self-serving, blabbering windbag."

Wouldn't you agree?

OldTimey
08-02-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
Criticism is one thing. Personal attacks are another.


This, in my opinion, is beyond mere criticism.

"The problem I have is that what you look like is a ludicrous, self-serving, blabbering windbag."

Wouldn't you agree?

I said that's how you come across. I didn't call you that.

If it was a personal attack I'd have called you an idiot or a fool or something. I don't have a personal problem with you. You just happen to hit a lot of the buttons that make me want to argue.

DetroitFolly
08-02-2004, 11:29 AM
That's a mighty narrow line you walk.

OldTimey
08-02-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by DetroitFolly
That's a mighty narrow line you walk.

True.

guy incognito
08-02-2004, 12:06 PM
Kumbaya, my Lord...kumbayaaaaaaaaaaa...