07/08/04 - Tigers at Twins

[Kamakzie]

Game Info: 8:10 pm EDT Thu Jul 8, 2004
TV: WKBD Add to Calendar
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Starting Pitchers
Player Photo
M. Maroth
Det vs. Player Photo
T. Mulholland
Min
5-6 Record 1-3
4.82 ERA 5.54
51 K 19
32 BB 13
14 HR 7
The Minnesota Twins starters have been unbelievable for the past few games.

They look to throw an unprecedented fourth straight shutout as they open a four-game set with the Detroit Tigers.

On Wednesday, Kyle Lohse pitched a six-hitter, leading the Twins to a 12-0 victory over the Royals. While not worried about the shutout streak, Lohse didn't want to let the rest of the team down.

``You don't want those kind of thoughts to cross your mind, but you obviously don't want to be the guy to give it up,'' said Lohse, whose six-hitter came after Brad Radke tossed a four-hitter and Johan Santana turned in a three-hitter to start the series.

This was the first time in the Twins' 44-year history they've shut out an opponent in three straight games, and the streak of 27 scoreless innings is a franchise high.

The Baltimore Orioles were the last major league club with three consecutive complete-game shutouts, when Mike Mussina, Scott Erickson and Kevin Brown did it in September 1995.

Rookie Joe Mauer had his first career four-hit game, and Minnesota's first five batters -- Cristian Guzman, Lew Ford, Mauer, Corey Koskie and Torii Hunter -- went 14-for-21 and scored all 12 runs. Hunter and Matthew LeCroy each had three RBIs.

The Twins may be hard-pressed to get the fourth in a row against the Detroit Tigers, who battered the Yankees pitching staff.

Detroit ended its five-game losing streak in a big way, taking back-to-back games from the Yankees. The Tigers won their first series from the Yankees in eight years, taking Wednesday's matinee 10-8.

[Bonderman38]

Lineups

Tigers (39-44)

2B Infante
RF Higginson
C Pudge
DH Young
SS Guillen
CF Monroe
1B Pena
LF Thames
3B Munson

P Mike Maroth (5-6) 4.82 ERA

Twins (46-39)

SS Guzman
LF Ford
C Mauer
3B Koskie
CF Hunter
RF Jones
1B LeCroy
DH Offerman
2B Rivas

P Terry Mullholland (1-3) 5.54 ERA

[Bonderman38]

Infante leads it off with a single!!

[DTroppens]

They just said Mulholland has never beat the Tigers - the only team he's never beaten. Let's keep it that way and let's make sure we win this one.

GO TIGERS - let's sweep this thing!

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by DTroppens
They just said Mulholland has never beat the Tigers - the only team he's never beaten. Let's keep it that way and let's make sure we win this one.

GO TIGERS - let's sweep this thing!

Hey Mario, you hear that, Mulholland has never beat the Tigers, Mario.

[Bonderman38]

Top 1st

Infante single to left
Higgy flyout to center
Pudge reaches on fielders choice, Infante out at second(5-4)
Young strikes out swinging

Mid 1
0-0

[Kamakzie]

Well we strand a runner there.

[DTroppens]

Fielding statistics are still the most unrefined stat in baseball.

Now you can't assume a DP and can't give that last play an error but what can we do to reflect things like that?

- maybe a DBC (defensive blown chance)?

-how about missed cutoff men?

- how about those two missed foul balls for the Yanks last night that really should've been caught? Defensive blown chance here too?

I wish there was a way these things were kept.

[DTroppens]

Another one. Grounder to second with a runner on first. He bobbles it but still gets the guy at first when he at least should've got the FC at second. That needs to be listed some how.

The sabers of the world are so busy making up stats about fielding range and stuff like that they themselves have missed what could be obviously listed somehow. Maybe it's not glamourous enough or maybe they thing range or things like defensive team proficiency does it enough already, but they let easy stats like this that could be easily judged go the way of the wind.

[tim48035]

If the Tigers pull off a doubtful sweep, they go into the all-star break equalling last year's 43 wins.

[IdahoBert]

Three up three down looking good!

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 1st

Guzman flyout to deep left center
Ford ground out to third
Mauer ground out to second

*Maroth threw 6 pitches

End of 1
0-0

[DTroppens]

Darn,
I was posting between the Tigers and Twins first and forgot to hit the pause button to keep the commercials from getting on this tape. I guess I'll live.

[Bonderman38]

Top 2nd

Guillen strikes out looking
Monroe ground out to second
Pena walks on 6 pitches
Thames flyout to fairly deep right center

Mid 2
0-0

[IdahoBert]

Maroth is making it look easy.

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 2nd

Koskie strikes out swinging
Hunter ground out to shortstop
Jones strikes out swinging

End 2
0-0

[Bonderman38]

Top 3rd

Munson single to right
Infante strikes out swinging
Higginson flyout to right
Pudge single to center, Munson to second
Young lineout to center

Mid 3
0-0

[IdahoBert]

Meat lines out and leaves two on.

[tim48035]

I hope the Tigers score soon as it's getting a little irritating hearing Frank Beckmann mention this scoreless streak that the Twins pitchers have. He must have mentioned it 10 or so times during the game and it's only the 3rd inning.

[IdahoBert]

9 up 9 down for M&M!

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 3rd

LeCroy ground out to third
Offerman ground out to second
Rivas pop out to shortstop

End 3
0-0

[memtiger]

31 pitches through 3 innings for Maroth
No Hits or Walks

Very Impressive

[kpking3032]

this pearl came across by the Twins TV guys---it may be true but it makes me want to scream----

they said that though the Tigers end to last year was impressive, keep in mind that the Twins were resting their players for the playoffs. O

AT LEAST WE PLAY OUTDOORS!!!!! I hate the Twins and everything about them...

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by tim48035
I hope the Tigers score soon as it's getting a little irritating hearing Frank Beckmann mention this scoreless streak that the Twins pitchers have. He must have mentioned it 10 or so times during the game and it's only the 3rd inning.

It'll happen. Hey, were Yankee killers after all!

[DTroppens]

Amazing how fast a game can go when it is 0-0 in the top of the fourth. This is flying right by.

[Bonderman38]

Top 4th

Guillen flyout to right
Monroe strikes out swinging
Pena strikes out swinging

Mid 4
0-0

[IdahoBert]

Pitcher's duel in the Homer Dome! Hope they don't pull that air venting crap on us again.

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 4th

Guzman ground out to shortstop
Ford ground out to pitcher
Mauer ground out to first

End 4
0-0

[Kamakzie]

Wow the way this game is going 1 run could make the difference!

[IdahoBert]

Keep it up Mike. Shuts 'em down again!

[Bonderman38]

Thames leadoff single......raises his batting average to a Greg Norton like .115

[kpking3032]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
Pitcher's duel in the Homer Dome! Hope they don't pull that air venting crap on us again.


On Twins TV they say Tram tied ribbons to the vent last series and when Mauer was up the ribbons were blowing out and when the Tigs were up the ribbons were blowing in....did we know about the ribbons????

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by kpking3032
On Twins TV they say Tram tied ribbons to the vent last series and when Mauer was up the ribbons were blowing out and when the Tigs were up the ribbons were blowing in....did we know about the ribbons????

Hadn't heard that. Seems like more than a genuine home field advantage. Sounds like cheating.

[Bonderman38]

Top 5th

Thames single to left center
Munson strikes out looking
Infante reaches on fielders choice, Thames out at second(6-4)
Infante steals second
Higginson strikes out looking

Mid 5
0-0

[DTroppens]

So do people around here believe in jinxing crap?

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by DTroppens
So do people around here believe in jinxing crap?

Yes so don't say anything:classic:

[Kamakzie]

Damn there goes the perfect game.

[Bonderman38]

Jones ends the perfect game with a single to center.

Dave you should have mentioned anything about the jinxing crap:classic:

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by DTroppens
So do people around here believe in jinxing crap?

Well, after that single he can go after the one-hitter like Koufax used to do.

[DTroppens]

Don't blame that one on me. Beckman said something like "oh man you hate to see someone like this come up to bat when.... when you have something like this going on."

He tried hard not to hint at it and then came the hit against the 0-for-5 with 5 K batter.

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 5th

Koskie strikes out swinging
Hunter ground out to shortstop
Jones singles to center
LeCroy flyout to center

End 5
0-0

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Don't blame that one on me. Beckman said something like "oh man you hate to see someone like this come up to bat when.... when you have something like this going on."

He tried hard not to hint at it and then came the hit against the 0-for-5 with 5 K batter.

Oh I know. Its not your fault. I was just messing around when I said, "Dave you should have mentioned anything about the jinxing crap:classic:"

Damn that Beckman :classic:

[IdahoBert]

We need to make the Homer Dome live up to it's name this inning.

[Kamakzie]

PUDGE!!!! Homerun! 1-0 Tigers!

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
We need to make the Homer Dome live up to it's name this inning.

Ask and you shall recieve.

"I am king of all the land, as far as this ball shall travel!"

HOMERUN PUDGE!!!

[kpking3032]

PUDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
Ask and you shall recieve.

"I am king of all the land, as far as this ball shall travel!"

HOMERUN PUDGE!!!

Oh mama!!

[DTroppens]

Bonderman,
I was just having fun. No-hitters are cool and I'd love to see one. Really though I'd just love to see a win and cut this lead the Twins have one more game.

P.S. I don't believe in jinxes. I believe the longer those things go the better chance it will end - especially with a mediocre or average pitcher.

[Kamakzie]

Ouch Monroe just pulled a hammy rounding 2nd. Jason Smith pinch runner.

[Edman85]

Looks like Infante to center with Smith at second.

[kpking3032]

Rondell's day off just went bye-bye....DANG!!! This best not be serious...what is with the hamstring bug this year in baseball!! Hope Craig's OK

[kpking3032]

whoops---damn twins tv guys said ro white would be coming in...

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Bonderman,
I was just having fun. No-hitters are cool and I'd love to see one. Really though I'd just love to see a win and cut this lead the Twins have one more game.

P.S. I don't believe in jinxes. I believe the longer those things go the better chance it will end - especially with a mediocre or average pitcher.

I agree, a win will do it for me. I also agree with the longer it goes the better chance it will end. Just look what happened to Mussina at fenway.....had a perfect game with 2 outs in the ninth and 2 strikes on Carl Everett and gave up a hit. Now Mussina isn't mediocre or average and he still didn't get a no-no or perfect game.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by kpking3032
Rondell's day off just went bye-bye

It did? He's still on the bench as far as I know.

[IdahoBert]

Pitcher Change: Grant Balfour replaces Terry Mulholland.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by kpking3032
whoops---damn twins tv guys said ro white would be coming in...

Alot they know.:crosseye:

[holygoat]

Balfour is NOT a good name for a MLB pitcher.

[tigersfan25]

My guess is that Infante will go to center.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
My guess is that Infante will go to center.

Your guess is probably right....really the Tigers don't have any other option in CF.

[Bonderman38]

Top 6th

Pudge HR to left
Young ground out to third
Guillen single to right
Monroe reaches on force out, Guillen out at second(5-4)
Pena single to center, Monroe to second
(Monroe pulls up lame)-----Smith pinch run for Monroe

*Pitcher Change*Grant Balfour replaces Terry Mulholland

Thames strikes out swinging

Mid 6
Tigers lead 1-0

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
My guess is that Infante will go to center.

They could move Thames or Higgy to center and put in Rondell leaving Infante at second.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
They could move Thames or Higgy to center and put in Rondell leaving Infante at second.

Well.....Smith stays in the game at second. Infante moves to CF.

[tigersfan25]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
They could move Thames or Higgy to center and put in Rondell leaving Infante at second.

Well, it aint happening now. They moved Infante to center... and as I mention this, Offerman hits it to center for a can o' corn.

[Edman85]

Originally posted by holygoat
Balfour is NOT a good name for a MLB pitcher.

Chris Homer is living up to his name this year.

[tigersfan25]

When does Inge come off the shelf?

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by Edman85
Chris Homer is living up to his name this year.

Who is Chris Homer? Does he play for West Michigan?

[IdahoBert]

Let's get a DP here!

[tim48035]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
When does Inge come off the shelf?

Eligible Sunday, but Tram said 100% no. My guess would be after next weekend.

[Kamakzie]

I HATE THE TWINS!

[Bonderman38]

Saw this on a fantasy baseball page:

Sanchez got pulled away cause his wife is in labor. Rondell has some foot problem, so he's on the bench, but is unavailable.

Any truth to it??

[tim48035]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
Sanchez got pulled away cause his wife is in labor. Rondell has some foot problem, so he's on the bench, but is unavailable.

Any truth to it??

Yes.

[DTroppens]

One day I'm going to check this out (okay I won't).
The defense hasn't helped and is the culprit today but it doesn't matter if it is a bad game for Maroth or a great game for Maroth this seems to happen.
He'll get a lead and then will lose it the next inning. It's been a pattern I think I've noticed the last three years. It was really apparent last year. Heck, I think it even happened in his 20th loss when we gave him a huge lead and he simply blew it.

Like I said it this one may not be his fault, but everytime this scenario pops up it amazes me how often this happens to him.

That said of course it can't happen all the time otherwise he'd have no wins. The last guy this seemed to happen an inordinate amount of times to me (especially considering how good it looked like he could end up being) was Weaver. I always termed him as a guy that did just enough to lose games.

[kpking3032]

no Sanchez faked the hammy injury so he could be with his wife threads yet???

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 6th

Offerman flyout to center
Rivas bunt single to first
Rivas to second on passed ball
Guzman rbi double to left, Rivas scores
Ford flyout to left
Mauer ground out to second

End 6
1-1

[tim48035]

Originally posted by kpking3032
no Sanchez faked the hammy injury so he could be with his wife threads yet???

Because he didn't fake it...he didn't need an excuse to be with his wife when she's in labor.

[IdahoBert]

We're gonna win this game.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by kpking3032
no Sanchez faked the hammy injury so he could be with his wife threads yet???

LOL.....I hope he didn't fake a hammy injury. Either he got lucky and got injured so he could go or he got injured but is ok now and still could go see his wife or he is hurt and still wanted to see his baby born:classic:

[tim48035]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
We're gonna win this game.

Hope you're right.

[kpking3032]

Originally posted by tim48035
Because he didn't fake it...he didn't need an excuse to be with his wife when she's in labor.

my point is you'd think he's the anti-christ if you read some of the posts on here

[Starflyer]

Well, Mulholland's streak is alive.

[tigersfan25]

Infante absolutely tagged that ball.

[kpking3032]

Omar hit that ball so hard I got scared sitting at home watching it!

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by tim48035
Hope you're right.

I'm learning from your optimism. You've got a good balanced view on things. We can do this.

[IdahoBert]

Another one please Mr Pudge?

[tigersfan25]

Senor Pudgie up.... and he strikes him out on the fastball...

[BiggieG]

How come no one's in the chat room?

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!:classic:

[Bonderman38]

Top 7th

Munson strikes out swinging
Infante lines a single to center
Higgy flyout to center
Pudge strikes out looking

Mid 7
1-1

[kpking3032]

Originally posted by BiggieG
How come no one's in the chat room?

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!:classic:


I think everyone is falling asleep watching this game...it always seems to be the case with games in Minnesota

[tim48035]

Originally posted by IdahoBert
I'm learning from your optimism. You've got a good balanced view on things. We can do this.

More like I'm patient and hopeful....but thanks for the compliment. :classic:

[LansingLugnut]

TRammell looks alot more serious the past 5 or 6 games. The Yankee homer umps seem to have turned him into a mean dude. I like it.

[IdahoBert]

Originally posted by BiggieG
How come no one's in the chat room?

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!:classic:

Never been in the chat room Biggie. By the way, you look thinner man.

[DTroppens]

Beckman: "Only a mediocre man is always at his best."

Well Beckman I fear you are at your best every night in the booth.

[holygoat]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Beckman: "Only a mediocre man is always at his best."

Well Beckman I fear you are at your best every night in the booth.

That's why I'm listening to Double D. :classic:

[DTroppens]

Darn,
what's up with Pudge defensively lately? Too many games in the field?

he's had quite a few PB, WP and stolen bases and errors - mental and physical - in the last few weeks. He really needs to take some time off from behind the plate I think.

[Kamakzie]

DAMN these Twinkies!

[BiggieG]

Never been in the chat room Biggie. By the way, you look thinner man.

Go to the top right hand corner of your page (Main Menu) and click on the chat room. Just follow the directions.

[Bonderman38]

Jones rbi single to center.:dead:

[DTroppens]

HG,
I usually do when the station come out good but I'm getting that Fenton static really good tonight. It usually has to be a 7 p.m. game and I have to pray for a fast game to get it decent through the entire night. Oh, being outside helps a lot too but tonight was pretty cold so I'm inside. That's another reason why I'm posting here a ton tonight. I'm inside near my computer to do it.

[holygoat]

This is a terrible way to lose a ballgame. To simply get beat is one thing, but to give runs away like this just sucks.

[Bonderman38]

Time to get Maroth out of there.

[IdahoBert]

Pudge's passed ball and throwing error have really hurt tonight.

[Hamilton's Finest]

how does Koskie steal on Pudge, unless Maroth didnt even bother with him, that can't happen

[Kamakzie]

Good going Munson! :dead:

[holygoat]

It's 2003 all over again. :depress:

[Bonderman38]

This sucks.....they threw the game away. Down 3-1 now....1st and 2nd still only 1 out.

Maroth should have never been sent out to pitch this inning. He had trouble last inning. Walking the leadoff man (Koskie) who is a lefty was a terrible mistake. Its falling apart for Maroth. They need to get him out of there.

[Hamilton's Finest]

Trammel has not realized yet that Munson shouldnt be playing the field, he is a DH and Pudge's bat carrier that is it.

[Kamakzie]

Crappy play by Smith :devious:

[holygoat]

Maroth has been the least of the Tigers problems this inning.

[Franks151]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
Maroth should have never been sent out to pitch this inning. He had trouble last inning. Walking the leadoff man (Koskie) who is a lefty was a terrible mistake. Its falling apart for Maroth. They need to get him out of there.

I heartily disagree. Maroth has been sharp tonight.

[Kamakzie]

FVCK!!!!!!!!!! :dead: :devious:

[holygoat]

Okay, now Maroth needs to go.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by Franks151
I heartily disagree. Maroth has been sharp tonight.

He has but, IMO although the fielding has been bad he is falling behind hitters and showed fatigue in the bottom of the 6th and now just gave up a HR to Christian freaking Guzman.

Game is pretty much over now down 6-1

[Franks151]

Originally posted by holygoat
Okay, now Maroth needs to go.

I heartily agree. :classic:
The defense sure betrayed him tonight.

[DTroppens]

Like I posted in the first inning or so there needs to be a way to define what isn't an error but isn't necessarily a sharp defensive play. Defense has hurt us but the boxscore doesn't show how nearly how shoddy our defense has been.

I don't think there has been an unearned run, which means there hasn't been an error or passed ball of consequence but there have been defensive plays (not making DPs on balls that could've been DPs ect) that have really determined the winner of this game. Why things like that aren't charted yet - especially by the sabers in the world - confuses me.

Those things decide games more often than physical errors do.

[Bonderman38]

Yan in

[tim48035]

Originally posted by Franks151
I heartily disagree. Maroth has been sharp tonight.

I agree...he wasn't hit hard at all until the HR. The defense let him down tonight...not a good night for Pudge behind the plate.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by Hamilton's Finest
Trammel has not realized yet that Munson shouldnt be playing the field, he is a DH and Pudge's bat carrier that is it.

I promised not to be so critical of the constant criticism of Trammell but ....Trammell is very aware that Munson doesn't belong at 3B. That's why he used Norton so much and that's why he made Inge the 3B before he got hurt. The Tigers do not have any alternative right now.

[TigersMeow]

This game got ugly in an awful hurry. Defence wins championships and this team doesn't play any.

[tigersrok]

I feel bad for Maroth. He pitched well tonght. The defense let him down in a big way tonight. The Tigers basically gave away all 6 runs. Mike should have been out of the 7th inning 2-3 times if the Tigers could play defense.

[Franks151]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
This game got ugly in an awful hurry. Defence wins championships and this team doesn't play any.

Hello jake.

[DTroppens]

Every time we have one of these games that we think "okay this is a defining game" we seem to blow it.

I know we all hope that we can sneak into this race or even make it somewhat interesting but these "defining games" show us what we all really know - this team is still a ways from being a contender or even a ways from seriously threatening 80 wins.

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 7th

Koskie walks
Hunter flyout to right
Koskie steals second, advances to third on throwing error by Pudge
Jones rbi single to center, Koskie scores
LeCroy single to center, Jones to third
Offerman rbi single to third, Jones scores, LeCroy to second
Cuddyer pinch runs for LeCroy
Rivas reaches on fielders choice, Offerman out at second, Cuddyer to third
Guzman HR to left

Yan in to pitch

Ford ground out to shortstop

End 7
Twins lead 6-1:dead: :dead:

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Every time we have one of these games that we think "okay this is a defining game" we seem to blow it.

I know we all hope that we can sneak into this race or even make it somewhat interesting but these "defining games" show us what we all really know - this team is still a ways from being a contender or even a ways from seriously threatening 80 wins.

Best post of night.

[DTroppens]

Well that's it. Beckman just made my point about the boxscore not really displaying what has happened defensively.

It has been proven I really am mediocre.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by Franks151
Hello jake.

Defense does not win championships but defense does matter and the Twins versus the Tigers is a great illustration of that. The Twins are everything that Jake loves in a baseball team. They are the one team in the league that validates Jake's theories of baseball. :classic:

[TigersMeow]

Originally posted by tiger337
Defense does not win championships but defense does matter and the Twins versus the Tigers is a great illustration of that. The Twins are everything that Jake loves in a baseball team. They are the one team in the league that validates Jake's theories of baseball. :classic:

Wouldn't those Seattle teams that made the playoffs for a few years validate that as well with Cameron in CF, ARod SS, Guillen 3B, Boone 2B, Suzuki RF?

[tiger337]

I predict the defensive problems will be addressed aggressively during the off season. I just hope they don't forget that hitting matters too. They shouldn't forget because hitting is what has made them respectable this year.

[Bonderman38]

This just plain sucks. They play so good for 5 1/2 innings then just stink up the place. Yet again the Tigers have more hits (8) than the Twins (7) but have been outscored 6-1. They have had the chances and couldn't capitalize. There is no reason they should not have scored more than 1 run off of Terry Mulholland. Just think if we can't score of Mulholland how in the world are they gonna score off Johan Santana??

[zachcadillac]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
Wouldn't those Seattle teams that made the playoffs for a few years validate that as well with Cameron in CF, ARod SS, Guillen 3B, Boone 2B, Suzuki RF?

Absolutely not, since your statement was "defense wins championships." But I quibble.

Still, I hope you realize the players you listed are all above-average hitters for their positions (and, in one case, the best hitter in the AL).

[TigersMeow]

Originally posted by tiger337
I predict the defensive problems will be addressed aggressively during the off season. I just hope they don't forget that hitting matters too. They shouldn't forget because hitting is what has made them respectable this year.

I think that will be very tough to do. CF is a problem but that guy is hitting .325. The defence better get better because I think a few of these guys are playing over their heads and it might be tough to repeat next year. Thus making defence, bullpen very important areas to address in the offseason.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
Wouldn't those Seattle teams that made the playoffs for a few years validate that as well with Cameron in CF, ARod SS, Guillen 3B, Boone 2B, Suzuki RF?

Those teams had strong offense as well as defense. The Twins have probably been more dependent on defense and small ball than any team in the majors the last couple of years. They don't have a great hitting team. Of course, I don't think they could win in a stronger division but they've still done a good job.

[Kamakzie]

I really dislike the Twins!

[DTroppens]

I'm a big defensive guy too - that and pitching. I guess that is pretty much defense. When it comes to the gloves I think it matters a lot. Do you have to be the best team in the AL in terms of your defensive play (scrap the crappy stats) no. But you if you are only average you are going to find it very hard to win as well. I think that's a very fair statement. Look at the White Sox. When I was in Chicago that team could always hit the ball. It was their defense that made the pitching the opposition look so darned good quite often. Those teams are always really bad defensively it seems and it's probably the reason why the White Sox haven't dominated the Central the last 10 years.

As good as they've been they could've been easily better with some solid defense.

[Bonderman38]

Top 8th

Rincon in to pitch

Young strikes out swinging
Guillen line out to center
Smith flyout to left

Mid 8
Score--------Who cares right now...were losing:dead:

[Franks151]

I think we'll see Nook Logan or Eric Owens in Minnesota for tomorrow's game. Or maybe DD will go all the way down to Erie and summon David Espinosa.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by tiger337
Those teams had strong offense as well as defense. The Twins have probably been more dependent on defense and small ball than any team in the majors the last couple of years. They don't have a great hitting team. Of course, I don't think they could win in a stronger division but they've still done a good job.

The reason they are able to win like that is because they have the pitching.

Santana, Radke, Lohse, Silva, Rincon, Romero, Everyday Eddie (now Joe Nathan).

[tim48035]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
Just think if we can't score of Mulholland how in the world are they gonna score off Johan Santana??

Woulda thought that after Monday's game....can't score off of Jon Leiber, how in the world are they gonna score off of Mike Mussina, who's dominated the Tigers throughout his career. I'm not quite giving up on the game vs. Santana.

[tigersrok]

The team has had a tough time winning games against lefty starters this year so it's really not surprising they couldn't hit Mulholland. I am just dissapointed they didn't take advantage of the runners they had on base and played such poor defense.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
Everyday Eddie (now Joe Nathan).

What I am disgusted the most about is they lost Hawkins and Guardardo in the offseason and they just reloaded.

[TigersMeow]

Boy the Twins teeing off on Colyer who would have thought that.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by tim48035
Woulda thought that after Monday's game....can't score off of Jon Leiber, how in the world are they gonna score off of Mike Mussina, who's dominated the Tigers throughout his career. I'm not quite giving up on the game vs. Santana.

I'm not giving up....just stating a question that has to be answered by the players. They haven't hit lefties that good all year and Santana right now is the best lefty in the AL probably better than Mulder because he can strike alot more people out than Mulder.

[tiger337]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
I think that will be very tough to do. CF is a problem but that guy is hitting .325. The defence better get better because I think a few of these guys are playing over their heads and it might be tough to repeat next year. Thus making defence, bullpen very important areas to address in the offseason.

I have a feeling they'll try to replace Sanchez this off season. We've discused his shortcomings too many times and I know you are aware of them so I won't repeat them. The hamstring problems could prove be the final blow to the Sanchez era.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by tiger337
I have a feeling they'll try to replace Sanchez this off season. We've discused his shortcomings too many times and I know you are aware of them so I won't repeat them. The hamstring problems could prove be the final blow to the Sanchez era.

I don't know he is Gibby's project. Who would they get to replace him?

[DTroppens]

Even that last play by Higgy in RF wasn't good defense. After it was apparent it was either a HR or off the wall why was he standing right there next to the wall. Did it matter? Probably not. Maybe he holds the runner at third if he plays it properly off the wall but it probably didn't. But over the long haul of 162 games such plays start adding up.

As we know our OFers are noctorious for bad plays in the OF - physically and mentally. If we kept mental errors our OFers would look worse than they already do.

[Bonderman38]

Wow...Colyer only gives up one run and he DIDN'T WALK ANYONE...Amazing

[Bonderman38]

GOD DO I HATE THE TWINS. THEY ARE RUBBING IT IN NOW. Gardenhire goes to Rincon in the 8th up by 5, now Joe Nathan up by 6 in the 9th. What a jack***

[TigersMeow]

Is anyone amazed that Jason Smith is still on this team? I know a lot of people hated him but Deivi Cruz is better than Jason Smith.

[Bonderman38]

Bottom 8th

Colyer in to pitch

Mauer flyout to center
Koskie single to second
Hunter double to center, Koskie scores
Jones ground out to first
Cuddyer ground out to third

End 8

Twins 7-1

[tiger337]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
I don't know he is Gibby's project. Who would they get to replace him?

I'm not sure who is available. It's obvious that Trammell is disgusted with the team defense and 3B and CF seem to be the biggest problems. I don't know if they'll be able to replace him but I believe they'll try.

[Bonderman38]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
Is anyone amazed that Jason Smith is still on this team? I know a lot of people hated him but Deivi Cruz is better than Jason Smith.

Why don't they call up Morris and send Smith down??

[Kamakzie]

Nathan blows them down, ballgame. :dead:

[Bonderman38]

Top 9th

Nathan in to pitch

Pena flyout to center
Thames strikes out swinging
Munson strikes out swinging

GAME OVER

Twins win 7-1:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead:

Tigers 8 games back now.

[Kamakzie]

Never will I start a game thread. I jinxed the whole damn thing! :dead:

[tigersrok]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
Is anyone amazed that Jason Smith is still on this team? I know a lot of people hated him but Deivi Cruz is better than Jason Smith.

I am. I think he needs to go.

What a bad loss. Once again the Tigers shoot themselves in the foot by their complete faliure to play good fundimental baseball and field the ball cleanly.

[DTroppens]

To answer the jason smith question.
We still don't have any serious depth. A few injuries and it really shows. It makes our starters with deficiencies suddenly back in roles they were in last year and then we fill in the other injured starters (even if it is someone like Sanchez) with the bench we suddenly are in trouble.

It looks like Monroe is going to be out awhile. With Inge still gone ( and I can't believe I just put that there) and Sanchez not at 100 percent even if he's back, we have some serious deficiencies in our lineup. Compound the fact that I think we need to find Pudge some time to rest from catcher and that means DeFelice playing some, we really look like a weak team. That means if Pudge goes to DH that forces Young to the infield. He's okay for spot stuff and good for the stuff he gets to, but over the long haul he's a deficiency at 3B and still a bit at 1B.

With 1-2 more long term injuries (and it looks like Monroe may be one of those) we could be in for a long stretch.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by DTroppens
It looks like Monroe is going to be out awhile.

When was this announced? I must have missed it.

[DTroppens]

It wasn't. Just a total guess based on him being taken out after that funny play at second. Looked like he pulled a hammy. I'm guessing he may be out until after the All-Star break. Or at the very least he'll be out a few games I'd guess. Can't risk him being out any longer. And that's with Sanchez still questionable with his leg.

[TigersMeow]

Originally posted by DTroppens
It wasn't. Just a total guess based on him being taken out after that funny play at second. Looked like he pulled a hammy. I'm guessing he may be out until after the All-Star break. Or at the very least he'll be out a few games I'd guess. Can't risk him being out any longer. And that's with Sanchez still questionable with his leg.

Sanchez probably won't even be around this series because he is back in Miami.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
Sanchez probably won't even be around this series because he is back in Miami.

Yeah I wouldn't expect Sanchez back before the break. Monroe, it's anybody's guess. The injury didn't look terribly serious to me, it seemed he was walking with a slight limp as he left the game, but of course I thought that after Sanchez hurt himself yesterday and came back in the field the next inning, and he left after the 4th inning, I believe. I think Smith ran for Monroe as a precaution because of the thin CF depth. No need to aggrivate something that's not serious.

[tigersfan25]

Originally posted by Bonderman38
GOD DO I HATE THE TWINS. THEY ARE RUBBING IT IN NOW. Gardenhire goes to Rincon in the 8th up by 5, now Joe Nathan up by 6 in the 9th. What a jack***

Good... he will wear them out if he keeps it up.

[tigersfan25]

The report on Monroe that I saw was a strained hamstring, which is really good news. The difference between a strain and a pulled hammy (as Kyle Peterson said on the ESPN telecast of yesterday's game) is a month.

[DTroppens]

You think Sanchez will be gone that long because of the birth? I'd guess another day but with the All-Star break coming up he'll be back in a few days again.

Then again maybe I'm cold and heartless.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by tigersfan25
The report on Monroe that I saw was a strained hamstring, which is really good news. The difference between a strain and a pulled hammy (as Kyle Peterson said on the ESPN telecast of yesterday's game) is a month.

I thought I heard the same thing about Monroe and that could be why I noticed he was only slightly limping as he left. If he'd stayed in the game and played through it, maybe he pulls the hamstring or worse and I'm glad Tram didn't risk that.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by DTroppens
You think Sanchez will be gone that long because of the birth? I'd guess another day but with the All-Star break coming up he'll be back in a few days again.

Well, I'd think if he lived in the states, yes that would be the case. But who knows...also who's to say he was going to play in Minneapolis due to the hamstring?

[TigersMeow]

I sure hope Vina comes back soon. Then it will atleast give the Tigers some options. Infante could move over to 3rd and Munson can platoon with Pena at 1st and maybe Inge in CF.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by TigersMeow
I sure hope Vina comes back soon.

Wow, that's a first on this board. Thought everyone on here hoped he was gone for good.

[pvtpylot]

Originally posted by tim48035
Well, I'd think if he lived in the states, yes that would be the case. But who knows...also who's to say he was going to play in Minneapolis due to the hamstring? His wife's in Miami. didn't hear anyone say if he would have played this weekend or not, though.

[DTroppens]

Getting Vina back would certainly help. You almost forget he's a Tiger.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by pvtpylot
His wife's in Miami. didn't hear anyone say if he would have played this weekend or not, though.

Brainfart...yeah I'd heard she is in Miami too, I'd just forgotten.

I just assumed with the injury and the fact that he'd heal slower playing on artificial turf that Tram would just not play him this weekend. I hadn't heard anything official, just an assumption.

[DTroppens]

tim,
I'd say that's a pretty good guess.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Getting Vina back would certainly help. You almost forget he's a Tiger.

I agree...Vina coming back would give the Tigers alot more flexibility. But I guess he's still nowhere near being ready. I feel bad for the guy, I hate to see anyone have an injury like that. And then to have surgery and still not be right is just too bad.

[tim48035]

Originally posted by DTroppens
tim,
I'd say that's a pretty good guess.

I think Tram is thinking the same way as when Dmitri came back...didn't he rest him because the Tigers were going to play on turf (I don't remember where, though) shortly after his return.

[estrepe1]

Originally posted by DTroppens
Getting Vina back would certainly help. You almost forget he's a Tiger.

I don't know the only thing that Vina would do is knock Infante out of the lineup. I guess you could move Infante to third but Vina is such a bad hitter that it would make the lineup weaker.

Platooning typically is when you have a right handed bat and a left handed bat that play the same position and have extreme splits to the point where they can't cover their position with their offense. This is not the case with Munson/Pena since they are both lefties.

I think Vina could help if he would accept a backup job.

[DTroppens]

estrepe1,
That's exactly what he'd do probably. Split time at 3B and play some SS. But it's a moot point because he won't be back soon enough to help our sudden depth problems - especially if Sanchez and Monroe aren't able to play for a few days.

Of course since those two are OFers and Vina plays inf, I guess that really doesn't solve much anyway.

What we all hoped and prayed could be a week that possibly could create some small hope at a penant race may be the week that kills us because of our lack of depth and poor defense which only is weaker because of the injury problems right now.

[pvtpylot]

Originally posted by tim48035
I just assumed with the injury and the fact that he'd heal slower playing on artificial turf that Tram would just not play him this weekend. I hadn't heard anything official, just an assumption. He'll probably re-injure it running through the hospital parking lot anyways, so it'll be a moot point for this weekend.